Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Are Dems/Libs who disagree w/ gay marriage and/or gay lifestyles bigots?

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (Through 2005) Donate to DU
 
ecstatic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 11:08 AM
Original message
Poll question: Are Dems/Libs who disagree w/ gay marriage and/or gay lifestyles bigots?
Edited on Wed Apr-07-04 11:36 AM by Truth Hurts A Lot
I ask because recent polls have shown that Democrats are not that much more supportive of gay marriage than republicans. Also, many black dems are against gay marriage. Is this an issue that every Democrat/Liberal should be in agreement on? Or does the issue transcend party lines?

Edited to change "oppose" to "disagree."

Sorry, polls are turned off at Level 3.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
truthspeaker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 11:11 AM
Response to Original message
1. some are bigots, some are ignorant
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sniffa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 11:15 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. poLiticaL hedging
cowards
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Nicholas D Wolfwood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 11:16 AM
Response to Original message
3. fantastic idea
Let's ward away all possible dissent and criticism by labeling those who would disagree with broad and hateful terms.

Sorry, but I saw this movie already. It's called "The Bush Administration". I don't want to watch it again, especially not here on DU.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Catfight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 11:17 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. articulately said. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ecstatic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 11:20 AM
Response to Reply #3
8. I had no idea that 62% would label fellow Dems as bigots
The results thus far are shocking to me.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
truthspeaker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 11:22 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. Well the poll is still new
But I'm not going to pull my punches against bigotry just because it comes from my own party.

But see my post above. I voted "Ignorant".
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Gildor Inglorion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 11:18 AM
Response to Original message
5. Of course they are!
Just as many otherwise liberal Democrats were strongly opposed to racial integration in the 1950's & 60's (not to mention mixed marriages!) I lived through those times; I remember them well. If our African/American colleagues think the current uproar over gay marriages and lifestyles is a different matter, they should remember that scriptures were also quoted to uphold segregation. In my opinion, it will take an entire generation's passing away to make our dream of equality under the law a reality.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ecstatic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 11:28 AM
Response to Reply #5
10. But is it really the same as the civil rights movement
Edited on Wed Apr-07-04 11:29 AM by Truth Hurts A Lot
I keep seeing the comparison made here but many Americans, particularly Black Americans, disagree with that comparison. Is there not a difference between sexual preference and the color of one's skin?

*Just playing Devil's Advocate here!*
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Gildor Inglorion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 11:40 AM
Response to Reply #10
14. For the sake of argument, let's call it a choice...
(which it's not) - but even so, is it right to discriminate against someone because she chooses to be a Roman Catholic? live in Oregon? vote Democratic? Dye her hair blonde? An American citizen should have the same rights as any other American citizen. As far as I'm concerned PERSONALLY, the nonsense of civil marriage should be abolished. The government should have no more say in marriage than in ordination or baptism.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ecstatic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #14
20. The problem with your argument
is that there is no scientific proof either way for nurture or nature being the cause of homosexuality. I think there is a large group of Americans who think that EVERYONE should be afforded equal rights.

This question is a little different as it focuses on mind state (i.e. internal disagreement) with gayness. Is feeling (secretly) that being gay is wrong similar to feeling (secretly) that blacks are not human?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Gildor Inglorion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 12:03 PM
Response to Reply #20
25. "An American citizen should have the same rights...
as any other American citizen." I thought I was saying that EVERYONE should be afforded equal rights. (2) "Is feeling (secretly) that being gay is wrong similar to feeling (secretly) that blacks are not human?" Yes. Of course. And not only wrong and sub-human, but worthy of scorn, contempt, and physical abuse. How hard is it to see that? As for nature or nurture, I said, for the sake of argument, call it a choice. But please be assured, I didn't wake up one morning and think, "Gee, nothing to do today, I believe I'll choose to be gay so everyone will despise me."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LeahMira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #10
15. Glad you said you were being a devil's advocate! :-)
I keep seeing the comparison made here but many Americans, particularly Black Americans, disagree with that comparison. Is there not a difference between sexual preference and the color of one's skin?

I see it as part of a sorting device. No matter the criteria, be it sexual preference of the color of one's skin, it's an attempt to allocate privilege to those deemed more "worthy." For some reason, Euro-Americans seem unable to perceive themselves as "worthy" without comparison to some "other" who is perceived as less "worthy."

Life is not a horse-race where there can be only one winner. Not every culture sees things the way we do. We could learn...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Gildor Inglorion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 11:46 AM
Response to Reply #15
17. Damn, I wish I'd said that!
Thank you for expressing my feelings better than I ever could. :-)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cheezus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 11:18 AM
Response to Original message
6. You have a right to your opinion for segregation. You're still a bigot tho
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Touchdown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 11:20 AM
Response to Original message
7. The problem with those who oppose gay people...
specific issues or generally (there is no "LIFESTYLE" BTW) is that it makes the assumption that it's about them, which it isn't. It's about gay people, and about living up to the standards of liberty for all.

If one finds gay people distasteful, or dusgusting, I care not one wit about it, but when that person seeks to restrict the rights of gay people, because of that distaste, that's when the "B" word becomes the truth.

Answer: The issue transcends party lines. There's been many Repubs supportive of gay rights, including Dick Cheney (at least once in his life).
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
carolinayellowdog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 11:32 AM
Response to Original message
11. What does it mean to "oppose" a "lifestyle"?
I consider "bigot" rather strong WRT the marriage issue, but anyone who "opposes" the "gay lifestyle" is by definition a bigot.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ecstatic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. What about disagreement?
Without any sort of movement or action behind it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Touchdown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 11:55 AM
Response to Reply #12
21. You can't disagree with the existence of something.
Gay people exist, end of story. One can find homosexuality to be immoral, distasteful, abhorrent, or disgusting, but what one cannot do is disagree with the existence of gay people.

It's like walking in the forest, coming across a rock, and saying "I disagree that that object is a rock"...it doesn't make sense.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LoZoccolo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 11:42 AM
Response to Reply #11
16. See I think just the opposite...kind of.
Edited on Wed Apr-07-04 11:43 AM by LoZoccolo
The gay marraige or civil unions issue is usually framed in terms of giving people equal benefits and protections to all people - I would think that someone could argue having the government give one thing to one group of people but not another could much more easily be termed as bigotry than a strong personal disapproval of what someone else does without an imposition of different treatment toward that class of people.

This guy in the cube across from me is a Muslim and doesn't eat pork, and I figure he doesn't think anyone should, including me, and I understand that. But I don't think he's bigoted toward me for being a enthusiastic carnivore of swine flesh because I imagine he gives me about the same level of human respect that anyone else does though he disapproves of something I do.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ecstatic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 11:48 AM
Response to Reply #16
18. I agree
I can disagree with a lot of things i.e. having too many tatoos or piercings. I just don't get how that would make me a bigot. This is not to say that I disagree with gay rights. I just don't get the results for this poll.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
welshTerrier2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 11:38 AM
Response to Original message
13. of course, they're bigots
everyone has a right to agree or disagree ...

but no one has a right to impose their views on other people's choices ... if they do, then they are bigots ...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ecstatic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 11:49 AM
Response to Original message
19. I don't get it--Are we saying that disagreement with something = bigotry?
I guess I would just like a little more information on why someone who disagrees is labelled as a bigot. Actually, I'm finding the results quite offensive. I could easily say that the poll results highlight a certain bigotry against blacks, christians, etc.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cheezus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 11:56 AM
Response to Reply #19
22. Of course we are!
If you disagree that the school should be integrated - that they should remain segregated. That's fine. You can disagree. You can have your opinion. You'd still be a bigot though.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LSdemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 12:00 PM
Response to Reply #19
23. I think this poll confused two different issues
Accepting "gay lifestyles" and accepting "gay marriage" are two very different issues in my opinion.

If you oppose the gay lifestyle, then yes you are probably a bigot.

If you oppose gay marriage, then that is a somewhat different issue. Personally, I don't think the government should recognize marriage at all, and just give everyone civil unions, leaving marriage to religious institutions.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
truthspeaker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 12:03 PM
Response to Reply #19
24. just disagreement for no good reason
Edited on Wed Apr-07-04 12:03 PM by truthspeaker
And I can't think of a good reason to be opposed to gay marriage.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Heyo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 12:05 PM
Response to Original message
26. No...
Edited on Wed Apr-07-04 12:06 PM by Heyo
They're not biggots.....

I hesitate to use that word except in cases where it's warranted... you throw a word like that around any old time, it loses it's meaning.

People who wanted to LYNCH people.... or have them drink from seperate drinking fountains or sit on the back of the bus..THOSE are biggots.

People who are against gay marriage, but are cool with gay people.. are *not* biggots, and to say that dilutes the word.

Heyo
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Sun Jul 27th 2014, 11:42 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (Through 2005) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC