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The Negatives We're Up Against (a Non-Voter's Gripes abt Dems)

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UTUSN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 09:53 AM
Original message
The Negatives We're Up Against (a Non-Voter's Gripes abt Dems)
Short Answer:

1) Abortion.
2) Gay rights.
3) Democrats burned Hummers, polluting the air.
4) Things are being said about KERRY.

At my walking park, this man in his 60s is interested in soccer, so I gave him the photoshopped pic of KERRY kicking Shrub (via Bartcop), both in soccer uniforms. We had never talked politics before.

I said something about kicking Shrub out in November, that he has ruined the country, etc. After my rant, he said that, well, in general he agreed with that but that the Democratic Party had some strong negatives in his mind. (What, WHAT?)

First he listed abortion. I said that nobody is in favor of abortion, that what this was about was the government dictating individual health decisions, that it was about the government someday telling him what health food he could and couldnt use or sell (his area of endeavor).

Then his next gripe was Gay rights. I said that this was one tiny facet of the overall Democratic accomplishment in social justice and welfare---that in the scheme of things like Civil Rights for ethnic groups, Social Security, Medicare/Medicaid, Gay rights is a piddling small gripe to hold against the Democratic Party.

Third, he said that the Democratic party was not so pure itself, was hypocritical in claiming to be for the environment but it was Democrats who recently burned 1000 Hummers, thereby polluting the air.

I was really boiling now, and other walkers on the far side of the park could hear me: WHAT are you TALKING about? I pressed questions for specifics, and he came up with some recent thing he himself read about, that Democrats had raided some Hummer factory or car lot and burned a thousand of them, thereby polluting the air. I said that this might be some activist GROUP, that I would spend valuable time researching on the net for this specific event to track down the group, but in the meantime, this was another matter of perspective, that even if this happened it was a possible facet group of the general Democratic side of things, but not specifically the Democratic Party, and that BESIDES THIS, even if true, 1000 Hummers being burned and polluting with smoke cant hold a candle to all the environmental regulations that Shrub has deleted, beginning as Governor, the resulting pollution being more damaging by a factor of thousands or millions or billions.

Finally, he said that he had heard things about KERRY. I was fairly screaming now, WHAT WHAT THINGS!!!!! (not said,You F**T!) He said that he had heard that KERRY had been part of a subversive group. I briefly ran over KERRYs having seen the Vietnam war firsthand then protesting it, that there were some possible plants in the movement that advocated radical alternatives that KERRY was not involved with and he had parted ways at that point.

I said that somebody was filling his head with crap, that it was funny how criticisms of Shrub are deflected by him and others like him, who claim to be undecided, but that they sure bring up pointed negatives about Democratic figures. He said that, not to worry, he isnt that interested in politics and what is needed is a 3rd party for people like him who dont want to be polarized. I said that DANTE had written the hottest fires of Hell were reserved for people who dont take sides. He laughed and said there is no Hell. I said, If Shrub wins, youll find out what Hell is.

For concerned Dems, I suspect this fellow cant vote (might be Green Card), but it shows what a row to hoe weve got.
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NewJeffCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 09:58 AM
Response to Original message
1. True
I have a friend of mine who is pretty open-minded and intelligent... he also rarely watches TV or listen to the radio - so he does not get Foxified or Rushed.

However, the Republican talking points are so pervasive and pounded in that it gets into the mainstream and even my open-minded and intelligent friend starts to believe them (Gore is dishonest, gave nuclear secrets to the Chinese in exchange for campaign $, etc)



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ihaveaquestion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 10:09 AM
Response to Original message
2. It's a good thing that some folks can't vote.
Sounds like you handled him pretty well, though.
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sangh0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 10:20 AM
Response to Original message
3. My non-voter story
A freind was complaining about what's going on in Iraq. His opinion was that we either pull out immediately or....get this...take over the ENTIRE Middle East. SO I asked him "If we can't do Iraq, how do you expect us to take over the ENTIRE Middle East?"

No response.
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zbdent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #3
9. Hey, wasn't the MOAB supposed to cow the Iraqis into loving us?
(MOAB - Mother of All Bombs - the "pseudo-nuke")
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fudge stripe cookays Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 10:47 AM
Response to Original message
4. I got into it with my aunt a couple of months ago.
We've always gotten along really well.

She and my mom are 360 degree opposites, so Elaine and I have always agreed on a lot. But she does have some of the racist/dumbshit attitudes my family is known for.

We started discussing politics, and she told me she doesn't vote anymore. I asked her why.

She taught in the Rio Grande Valley school system for years, so she's seen poverty, disinterest, bilingual education, and all the rest up close. Understand: the Rio Grande Valley is probably about 80% percent Latino, many of them poor. Evidently some of these kids told her, "Why should we go to school? We can just get welfare." This is all the Dems fault.

She has just as many problems with the Dems as she does with the Repugs. Even when I tried to tell her how much damage Bush is doing, she told me about how I was being fooled by the liberal media.

Does anyone know something that Ann Richards did to Texan teachers in the 80s or 90s? That's all she could talk about. She hates Ann Richards, and because of that, all Dems. (Ann Richards was a teacher, so this made it especially heinous to her)

I'm not sure how to go about refuting any of this.
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leesa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. Did it ever occur to her that IF a kid said this to her it was to get a
rise out of her?? You think being a teacher she would recognise it for what it was. Being on welfare is no picnic and I'm sure they are quite aware of it.
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fudge stripe cookays Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 11:31 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. With the poverty that these kids are used to,
even welfare looks pretty good to them. I don't think the kid was pulling her leg.

Have you ever seen a colonia?
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riverwalker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 10:53 AM
Response to Original message
5. I actually work with women who say
"I vote for who ever my husband tells me to vote for". Honest. Now you know why DU is my refuge. I look at them like they just said "I eat raw road kill for breakfast", actually I would respect them more.
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DiverDave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 11:39 AM
Response to Original message
8. There are some truly stupid people out there
Course this is the sort of person that votes based on who has the best 30 second commercial...
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UTUSN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 02:56 PM
Response to Original message
10. O.K., Google Sez 20 Hummers
*******QUOTE*******

http://www.naiaonline.org/body/articles/archives/arterr...

.... August 22, 2003 West Covina, CA: ELF took responsibility for firebombing a Chevrolet dealership that destroyed 20 SUV Hummers and damaged 20 more, and, in a separate blaze, collapsed a warehouse roof. People near the dealership were evacuated. SUVs in three nearby cities were also vandalized with similar slogans. "ELF." "Fat, Lazy Americans" and "I (heart) Pollution" were among the graffiti, some profane, spray-painted on the cars. ELF issued an e-mail calling the incidents "ELF actions." The Fire Chief said the noxious smoke produced by the blaze created more pollution than the destroyed SUVs would have generated over their lifetime on the road. Damages exceed one million dollars and the FBI is investigating the vandalism as domestic terrorism. ....

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/state/20030822-1627-...

.... "It really gets under my skin. They endanger my firefighters' lives over what they feel is a good cause," Greene told a Los Angeles-area television station.

He said the noxious smoke the blaze generated amounts to more pollution than the destroyed SUVs would have generated over a lifetime on the road. ....


http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/09/13/national/main...

Aug. 25, 2003.... Public officials, firefighters and Hummer fans rallied outside an auto dealership in West Covina to denounce the unidentified vandals who did $1 million in damage as an environmental protest. ....

...They toured the area where fires early Friday gutted a parts warehouse and destroyed 20 Hummer H2s. Another 20 Hummers and several Chevrolet Tahoes were significantly damaged by fire and spray-painting. ....

Three other dealers and at least four privately owned vehicles in the area also were damaged during the vandalism spree. ....

The Earth Liberation Front, a loose association of militant environmentalists that has claimed responsibility for other acts of arson and vandalism, said in an unsigned e-mail Friday that the incidents were "ELF actions" but added it had not be in contact with those responsible. ....

********UNQUOTE*******

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UTUSN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 09:09 PM
Response to Original message
11. Last Kick Forever n/t
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MoonRiver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 09:13 PM
Response to Original message
12. Then, "let them eat cake."
Sooner or later, reality will dawn on these dittoheads and then Katie bar the door. Hell hath no fury as a freeper spurned. }(
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UTUSN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 09:16 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Thanks, Old Friend n/t
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MoonRiver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 09:19 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. Hiya!
:hi:
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