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wndycty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 09:20 AM
Original message
We just blew up a mosque and killed 40 people. . .
. . .just saw it on FOX32 Chicago. This is not good, its very sad. But I am sure if they were in a mosque they had it coming. <sarcasm>
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 09:21 AM
Response to Original message
1. They just "Sharoned" an Iraqi mosque
And the quagmire just keeps on getting deeper.
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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 09:23 AM
Response to Original message
2. al Sadr was reportedly living in a mosque....
They are doing their best to make a martyr out of the guy... But they "killed" Saddam with these type of bombs about six times before they finally captured him....
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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 09:44 AM
Response to Reply #2
23. We are making al-Sadr right.
He said the scum and evil-doers would not respect the mosques. Now we made him right.
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RainDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 11:12 AM
Response to Reply #2
43. This is a Sunni mosque, not Sadr (Shi'a)
http://www.salon.com/news/wire/2004/04/07/mosque_hit/in...

This is in Fallujah, in the south.

According to CNN just a moment ago, the Marines are saying that they bombed the wall of the mosque, not the mosque itself, although this is probably splitting hairs for the Muslim people who would consider such actions barbarism.

...just as America considers them barbaric.

Marines also bombed civilian areas, in one case killing 25 members of the same family who were staying together in one house.

Thanks, Bush. We couldn't lose the war on terrorism without you...
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HFishbine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 09:25 AM
Response to Original message
3. Well, that should be about that last of them right?
That should be about the last of the terrorist, uh insurgents, uh dead-enders, uh evil doers, uh militants, uh hold-overs, uh remnants... It's not as if we're talking about many people here, right?
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dpibel Donating Member (898 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 09:48 AM
Response to Reply #3
25. Flowers on the way
Soon as we got those what-you-saids outta they way, the grateful ones can commence the petal strewing.

Any minute now.
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MetaTrope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 09:25 AM
Response to Original message
4. Nothing brings people together
like blowing up their mosques. Ask India and Malaysia.
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Amaya Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 09:25 AM
Response to Original message
5. Is it me or was that a real STUPID thing to do?
:shrug: I'm sure this will go over real well in the Muslims communities all over the world, no?
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Gasolinedream Donating Member (474 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 09:29 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. I am sure...
the people in the mosques had just attacked our soldiers, but man does it look bad to the rest of the world. It's like in the U.S. if you were to blow up a beautiful church to get to 30 guys holed up in there. It would make lots of people mad.

Things are going crazy! These people attacking us are not the extremeist anymore--they are the Iraqi people. There is no easy way out of this!
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DancingBear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 09:26 AM
Response to Original message
6. Aw, c'mon
Whoever they are they deserve it. We are right. We are ALWAYS right.

The fact that we have bombed a holy site, and we have now inflamed the tensions of the Arab and Muslim worlds to a point of no return is of no consequence.

They hate us for our freedoms, goddamnit.
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Ripley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 09:31 AM
Response to Original message
8. It's wrong to do that but...
I know I'll be alone in this thinking here...

If one mosque was full of weapons yesterday and today the Marines are in the streets outside a mosque and the people inside start shooting at them ...what should the Marines do? Not return fire? Wait until they come out? Maybe those are the best ways to handle it. But clearly some Iraqis don't have as much feelings of "sacred places" about their own places of worship as DUers do.
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kclown Donating Member (459 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 09:35 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. You are absolutely right.
To quote Molly Ivins, "If these people don't appreciate
what we're trying to do for them, they should just go back
where they came from."
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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 09:41 AM
Response to Reply #10
19. What right do they have to shoot at us?
Edited on Wed Apr-07-04 09:42 AM by kentuck
Just because we are coming up to their homes and kicking the doors down, if they do not open up, and we stand there armed with automatic weapons and grenades - does that give them a right to shoot at us? Don't they realize we are shooting them down so we can give the rest of their country "freedom"? What the hell is wrong with these people anyway?
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bowens43 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 09:36 AM
Response to Reply #8
12. What should the Marines do? They should leave.
They should get the hell out.
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Ripley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 09:39 AM
Response to Reply #12
15. So if they don't return fire and the Marine body count goes up..
You'll say what? They deserved it. Hooray! Wow, great to see DUers support the troops when it really counts...when they're getting their asses shot at.
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JohnyCanuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 09:58 AM
Response to Reply #15
32. It just illustrates why this is such a no-win situation.
The thing that will stick in the minds of Iraqis and other other Arabs and Muslims around the world will not be that there were arms or militants hidden in the mosque, but that the US military (which most believe have no damned business being in Iraq in the first place) blew up a mosque. I wouldn't be surprised that many will simply believe that the story about fighters hanging out in the mosque was simply a lie and a cover up story on the part of the occupation forces to justify their action.

So what are the alternatives, take out an immediate threat to US troops and further inflame and enrage the already burning anti-American sentiment in Iraq (and other parts of the Muslim world from which terrorists are recruited) which will doubtless inspire further resistance and encourage more Iraqis who were on the sidelines to now join the resistance movement in the hopes of killing Americans, or leave the mosque alone and ignore a more immediate threat to the occupation forces. It's no-win situation and just the type of problem that the anti-war "focus groups" tried to warn the brain dead, shitferbrains Pretzeldent that the "liberation" forces would encounter as they attempted to "liberate" Iraq for Hallibur..., er, excuse me I mean, for the Iraqis.
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Ripley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #32
47. Thanks for a level-headed answer.
But hell I'm not in the field, none of us are.

No-win is right, but I'm not going to spit on the Marines now, as some seem to want to do.
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Kanary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 10:22 AM
Response to Reply #15
38. Are you one of those in favor of leveling the country?
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Ripley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 11:36 AM
Response to Reply #38
49. Thanks for your snide remark.
I guess this is DU Freeperville now...disagree with the mob rule and one is considering a maniac who wants to nuke a country...thanks.
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 09:40 AM
Response to Reply #8
18. Believe it or not, Ripley
What we ought to do is leave the Iraqis and their mosques alone. If they want to fill their places of worship with -- whatever-- that's their business. We took out Saddam, mission accomplished. Leave Iraq to the Iraqis. Just pack up, turn around, and bring our troops home.
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Ripley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 09:42 AM
Response to Reply #18
20. I agree we should leave, but that isn't happening.
So in the meantime you are advocating the people killing our guys do it with a free pass. That is wrong too.
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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 09:44 AM
Response to Reply #20
22. "that is wrong too"
Need any more be said? No one is standing on the "right" side.
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wndycty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 09:48 AM
Response to Reply #20
24. Considering one of our guys is my nephew. . .
Edited on Wed Apr-07-04 09:49 AM by wndycty
. . .and the the rest are all of our sons, daughters, boyfriends, girlfriends, husbands, wifes, friends and cousins. . .no, but we must also ask why are they killing our guys? Is it because they are there under legitimate circumstances? Is it because we ridded the nation of its weapons of mass destruction? Is it because their lives have improved? This is not a simple good vs. evil argument here. What would you do if a bunch of Iraqis invaded the US to rid us of George W. Bush? I hate the man, but let a bunch of foreigners invade and OCCUPY our country to force regime change, I hate Bush but I would have something for them. I doubt many of us would take too kindly to it.

Our men have to do whatever is necessary to protect themselves and come home safely, but I am still not able to get past the reason they are there.
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Ripley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 09:50 AM
Response to Reply #24
26. I see, now I'm a freeper right?
Just because I take a position opposed to the majority here.

I never said the war, the occupation, the terror we are causing in Iraq was right. I was replying to a thread about one particular situation. This situation does not appear to be civilians hiding in a church. If you think the Marines always lie and they were really trying to kill children, not guys who had been shooting at them, then I have nothing more to say here.
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wndycty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 09:54 AM
Response to Reply #26
29. No one is calling you a freeper. . .
. . . I am not sure how to deal with this situation. If the Marines were threatened then they were right to do what they did, BUT I HAVE TO ASK MYSELF! WHY THE F%CK WERE THEY THREATENED? It might have a lot to do with invading and occupying a country.
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Ripley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 09:58 AM
Response to Reply #29
33. Okay, but you asked me a question often asked of freepers..
What would you do if a bunch of Iraqis invaded the US to rid us of George W. Bush?

My answer: I'd say "take him away, please."

Yes, the situation is bad when mosques are being purposely blown up...but does that change the fact that obviously the people trying to kill our guys are using the mosques purposely to try to take cover...which leaves our guys sitting ducks. Not fair. But war never is.

It is escalating horribly and maybe these things will help change more Americans minds, including Congress.

But in the meantime, I will not issue a blanket declaration abhorring the tactics used by the Marines when they are in a firefight.

I think we're on the same side here...we need to leave ASAP.
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wndycty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #33
35. My answer would be different. . .
. . .I would NEVER EVER support foreign military intervention in the United States. George W. Bush is the worst American president ever and I will work my ass off to retire him in November however I would never ever support another country invading this country to accomplish regime change and I would resist them with extreme force.
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liberalitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 10:17 AM
Response to Reply #33
37. Then leave us alone......
so that we can build the kind of life WE want and not the kind YOU want us to have.
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Ripley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 11:38 AM
Response to Reply #37
52. Now how can you possibly know what kind of country
I want by my sarcastic response to the removal of GW, that is only put forth here every hour of every day in a million ways?

You guys really need to quit attacking the wrong people. I've posted here for years and now you seem to think I want Iraq to happen all over again, but here. Give me a break.

I'll gladly leave you alone.
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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 09:54 AM
Response to Reply #26
30. You must be a liberal....you think of the best in people...
Of course, our Marines would not kill innocent women and children... It was probably a "target of opportunity". Remember that?
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #24
39. Hope your nephew stays safe and comes home to you soon! n/t
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wndycty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 11:10 AM
Response to Reply #39
42. Thank you. . .
. . .I think he is headed to Kuwait, when he was in Baghdad we could talk via e-mail. My sister used to talk to him via Yahoo IM. We have not heard from him in a few days and he was supposed to leave Baghdad this past Saturday so I am hopeful that he is in Kuwait.
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markus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 10:09 AM
Response to Reply #20
34. Hmm, maybe that would work in American, Ripley
The next guy to take some school kids hostage, let's fire a few hellfire missles into the school. Mission accomplished.

If you've got a bunch of bad guys in a box, there are some alternatives that do not involve blowing up the building, particularly if there would be substantial collateral damage.

Blowing up a mosque under these circumstances makes about as much sense as blowing up the school with the kids in to get at the abductor.
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 10:13 AM
Response to Reply #20
36. Watch it Ripley
That's total bullshit writing that I "advocate" killing our guys. I expect a retraction in short order.

Let's be perfectly clear: Pack up, turn around and bring our troops home! That way, not one single one of our guys gets killed.

Waiting for your retraction.......
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Ripley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 11:33 AM
Response to Reply #36
46. Yet it's okay for you guys to gang up on me...
implying I'd like to nuke the whole country or invite invading occupiers to blow up our schools.

This is not a debate it is a lock-step echo chamber.
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wndycty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #46
48. Huh. . .
. . .I have no idea what is going on in your head when you say something that people disagree with and then you feel that there is an echo chamber. Are you implying that we cannot think for ourselves?
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markus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #46
55. Ripley, I was suggesting that attacking a mosque
would be a boneheaded as blowing up a school with kids inside to get at an intruder.

Both would be equally stupid.

I didn't imply that you would support such an idea.

But face it, they both about equally as stupid in this context.
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NewYorkerfromMass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 09:33 AM
Response to Original message
9. Freepers diggin' it....
Edited on Wed Apr-07-04 09:33 AM by NewYorkerfromMass
This sort of thing appeals to a lot of Americans I'm afraid:

http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1113011/posts
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GOPisEvil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 09:37 AM
Response to Reply #9
13. I wonder how they'd feel if a Christian church got bombed this Sunday.
It's the same thing. Those fuckwits don't have any regard for those that are not white and Christian.
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 09:40 AM
Response to Reply #13
16. I have a feeling large houses of worship will become terrorist targets
Bombing mosques will definitely lead to terrorists bombing churches and synagogues.
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DIKB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 09:40 AM
Response to Reply #9
17. I feel nauseous.
Those are some SICK, TWISTED, DEMENTED, EVIL F*CKS.

Reading some of those quotes was sickening, how can they say that stuff ? Do they care AT ALL about our troops ? That this will incite more religious based hatred, this will create more bin Ladens ?
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Loonman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 09:35 AM
Response to Original message
11. We're fucked, now
Any bets on which cathedral or synogogue is going to be bombed, now?
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 09:37 AM
Response to Original message
14. Looks like the fundamentalist loonies
of both the middle east and the US are going to get their holy war clash of civilizations unless the sane and educated of the world can somehow turn this thing around.
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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 09:42 AM
Response to Original message
21. That's fucked up.
If it's true. That's up there with killing people in church's in Rawanda.
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Eurobabe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 09:52 AM
Response to Original message
27. winning hearts and minds, no doubt
INSERT SARCASM
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Beloved Citizen Donating Member (522 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 09:53 AM
Response to Original message
28. All hell is breaking loose in Iraq
Blowing up a mosque and killing 40 people is only going to kick this fiasco up a few more notches. The real war in Iraq has now begun.
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caledesi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 09:58 AM
Response to Original message
31. Now that's a good way to win hearts and minds. nt
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NeonLX Donating Member (472 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 10:52 AM
Response to Original message
40. WWJB? (What Would Jesus Bomb?) nt
*
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 10:56 AM
Response to Original message
41. Why is this so much worse than bombing houses?
I have never understood why churches and other religious buildings should have some sort of protected place in war. This was monumentally stupid due to the hatred in the Arab world that will be ignited but aside from that I find it hard to distinguish this from bombing a few houses.
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Steely_Dan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 11:13 AM
Response to Reply #41
44. Well, clearly...
As a non-believer, I agree that it is hard to understand why a "structure" used for religious worship should be any more valuable than a house. But I'm sure that you see that fact that it is a "symbol." Bombing a religious structure is just about as stupid a move as there is. The whole argument from the Bush camp that this is not a religious war just got thrown down the toilet. Up another notch!

-Paige
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Bridget Burke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 11:16 AM
Response to Reply #41
45. So, you think bombing houses is OK?
Bombing churches is OK? Remember, this is part of an invasion that was illegal to begin with.

And I don't think that igniting hatred throughout the Muslim world is a small matter.
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ACK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 11:36 AM
Response to Reply #45
50. No it is not OK but Iraqis are religious
This is a very bad thing. Symbolically.

Play this across satellite tv and the muslim populations of the world will begin streaming to attack our soldiers in twice the current numbers.

Yes, this is a very bad thing indeed.
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 11:36 AM
Response to Reply #45
51. No but all of the sudden we are supposed to care now
We attacked a mosque oh the humanity. Where, oh where, was the outrage before?
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tom_paine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 11:39 AM
Response to Reply #41
53. What's with the sig line, dsc
Are you "outing yourself"?

(and this is NOT referring to sexuality, I can't tell you what it is because the Moderators would slap me with a warning)

But you must grasp my meaning?

Well?

:wtf: :wtf:
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 11:42 AM
Response to Reply #41
54. Because instead of it being a normal conflict
we have escalated this to a religious war.
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