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riverwalker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 01:35 AM
Original message
Cheney's heart
I guess this is for medical people out there. O.K, we all know Cheney has a "bad heart", but I am reading John Dean's book, and I am struck by something. (First of all, it's incredible, so RUN out and get this book!) Cheney just doesn't have a "heart condition" this guy is almost ready for hospice. I am a coronary care nurse, so I take care of guys like him every day. First of all, he admits to at least 4 MI's, but probably more since he is so secretive. He had bypass 20 years ago, and thats about as long as they last. In most cases he would have another, but there is not enough viable heart left to bypass. He would die on the table, as they say, and doctors would refuse surgery. He has CHF and an EF so low, they had to place an ICD (meaning his heart is so stretched out and flabby from the heart attacks, he is at risk for fatal fibrillation.) He had a stent placed after another MI in 2000,so his grafts are already plugging up again. This guy is on borrowed time, and this is just based on what medical conditions he admits to. It's worse if he is diabetic, or has kidney problems or something else in the mix. I think the reason no one ever sees him is because #1) he is on oxygen #2) or on intermittent IV dopamine or natracor drips, we do that in end stage heart failure. He probably pops nitros like candy, and his sex life would be non-existent. (and Viagra would kill him.) As secretive as they are, I would not be surprised if he is nursed round the clock and they drag him out in front the cameras every now and then in very controlled situations. I guess my point is, the SOB is much sicker than they want us to believe.
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DenverDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 01:38 AM
Response to Original message
1. The SOB is much sicker than they want us to believe.
Psychologically.

Plus, his heart sucks.
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LiberalFighter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 01:38 AM
Response to Original message
2. If you have friends in the media...
discuss this with them.

Compile additional material that they can review for themselves and make the resources available for others to review as well.
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7th_Sephiroth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 01:38 AM
Response to Original message
3. i had that thought myself
honestly, i dont know how his heart even works, with all that has been done, and him keeping such a plump appearance, combined with the stress of running the country, i'm suprised he hasent just given out yet
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aldian159 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 01:42 AM
Response to Original message
4. i hate to be ignorant
but what do all the acronyms mean?
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Mayberry Machiavelli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 01:58 AM
Response to Reply #4
14. Here are some.
Edited on Wed Apr-07-04 02:00 AM by Mayberry Machiavelli
MI = Myocardial Infarction = "Heart attack" (where some of the heart muscle dies from lack of blood supply)

EF = Ejection Fraction (What percentage of the blood in your heart is squeezed out with each beat. Normal healthy person should empty about 75% of the volume each time, below 50% is abnormally low.) As one of the posters indicated, it is possible for some even with really low EF like 15% to "recover" some function as that poster did.

CHF = Congestive Heart Failure = a chronic ailment caused by impaired pumping function of the heart leading to such problems as shortness of breath, swelling in the legs/fluid retention, etc.

ICD or AICD = Automatic Implanted Cardiac Defibrillator (Cheney has one of these) = a sophisticated device implanted in those at high risk of cardiac arrest. The device continually senses the heart's rhythm. If the rhythm decays into a life threatening rhythm, the device will deliver an electrical charge to shock the heart back into the normal rhythm.

Usually AICD's are placed in people who have severely impaired cardiac function due to heart attacks etc. The impaired function causes the heart to be dilated and flabby, increasing the risk of deadly rhythm disturbances. Sometimes people can have other predispositions to rhythm disturbances for other reasons necessitating an AICD.

Yes, Cheney's health is for shit. You can see now why there has never been any issue of his running for President, it would be strictly out of the question since he could pretty much check out with a rhythm disturbance at any time. I would've thought his health would have been too much of a liability to be Vice Pres too.
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tishaLA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 02:04 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. What worries me is that he must be on drugs like
I can't even imagine. I only have to take a beta blocker and an ACE inhibitor because I have gotten much better since diagnosis. But damn! Beta blockers really zap me. And he MUST be on digoxin, lasix, and a variety of other things. He's gotta be half looped most of the time.
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Wapsie B Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 01:42 AM
Response to Original message
5. I totally agree.
I wouldn't doubt that he has an entire mini hospital in his residence right now. The occasions when he's out of sight for awhile are undoubtedly when he's recovering enough for the few times he's actually in public.

My question is why in hell would a person like that take a job like this? When you're one step away from taking a dirt nap why not enjoy your fortune and kick back?
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 01:48 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. To make Denny Hastert happy?
Edited on Wed Apr-07-04 01:48 AM by aquart
Well, it's all I can think of.

Do I want this news to get out? Do I want Cheney looking pitiful or having to step down? Who would they put in his place?

I just don't want a Veep who looks viable after impeachment.
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Wapsie B Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 01:51 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. Rudy
is the one that comes to mind. Or Ridge.
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belle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 03:12 AM
Response to Reply #5
38. Sharks have to keep moving or else they die...
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tishaLA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 01:44 AM
Response to Original message
6. Does the book say his EF?
I have CHF--from a virus--that I developed a year and a half ago. When I was diagnosed, my EF was only 10-15% and they thought I needed a transplant; thankfully, it's now 40%, which is still not good for a 28 year old, but dang. Dick makes me feel good about my heart.
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lapfog_1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 02:07 AM
Response to Reply #6
18. Virus and Heart

Yup, that's bad. Be sure to take antibiotics before any dental
work. Turns out the veins in your lower jaw are directly connected
to your heart so bacteria have a direct flow to the heart.

I have both arrythmia caused by Wolfe-Parkinson-White Syndrome (WPW)
and a mitral valve prolaspe. The WPW has been (mostly) corrected
by surgery, but the prolaspe is still a problem. I have to be
very careful with my heart.

Early in the Bush Admin, I wondered what would happen if Bush died
accidently, Cheney (bad heart), Hastert? (Yuck), then it was Strom
and then Colin Powell... who I thought was the only reasonable person
in the admin (I no longer believe that).

I kinda believed that Cheney was Bush's insurance against assasins.

I think Cheney will resign after the election and a new Veep will
be selected (Ashcroft?)
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pfitz59 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 01:46 AM
Response to Original message
7. Cheney is that guy from "Hellboy"......
filled with sand instead of blood! He has no heart. EOM!
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The Traveler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 01:50 AM
Response to Original message
9. Guys like him never die
Unless someone drives a stake through his pacemaker.

(Disclaimer: The above is not intended as an advocacy of violence, nor a particular act of violence against any particular individual. Readers are cautioned against taking the author too seriously. Any resemblance between the author robg and any living person is completely coincidental. robg disavows any knowledge of your actions. robg should not be taken with alcohol, cocaine, heroin, methamphetamines, MAO inhibitors, aspirin, or metamucil, though marijuana or ecstasy can be fun. Any aberrant behavior as a result of reading robg is Skinner's fault, and robg is not liable. Do not read robg while operating a motor vehicle or heavy machinery.)
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Elwood P Dowd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 01:52 AM
Response to Original message
11. Cryonics
He wants a high end Cryo job. Cost millions.
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Dover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 01:54 AM
Response to Original message
12. I thought he went to fundraising dinners and recently traveled throughout
Edited on Wed Apr-07-04 01:55 AM by Dover
Asia/Europe. I don't know how much of his time he actually spends at these very public events because I haven't seen any written accounts. Surely the press or someone would notice if he seemed particularly weak...or something about this would leak out somewhere somehow.

At any rate, if he IS that weak then I wouldn't expect him to be on the Republican ticket. And it might even help the Republican ticket if he weren't on it.
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 02:24 AM
Response to Reply #12
25. Cheney will NEVER drop off the ticket - voluntarily
This idea recurs and it is absurd. Cheney IS the administration. He is not just your shadow president. He is the whole show. He assumed the helm as the PNAC rep and he won't let go until his mechanical heart stops cold. Stop dreaming.
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Dover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 02:55 AM
Response to Reply #25
33. Well actually my dream is that his mechanical heart DOES stop cold.
But if public appearances become impossible then perhaps he'll handpick a successor and step aside...while still holding onto the puppet strings from behind the curtain.
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IkeWarnedUs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 01:57 AM
Response to Original message
13. Does Dean's book delineate all of this?
I haven't gotten to this book yet. Some old Watergate scars and I didn't want to help him make money. Too many other good books to read right now. But I like what I've been hearing from and about Dean (John and Howard).

If he gets into this kind of detail into Cheney's health, I'll get it tomorrow.
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Lindsey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 02:04 AM
Response to Reply #13
17. Very interesting..
it would explain a lot...except for the fact (and I'm serious here) that it seems like if someone was close to death they'd try to be a better person and this guys waging war on the world..go figure.
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 02:28 AM
Response to Reply #17
26. You'd like to think he wouldn't sell out his own daughter, and her rights
You'd like to think, at death's door, he wouldn't sell out his own daughter. The daughter who helped get him elected.

But, you forgot.

He's a republican.
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IkeWarnedUs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 03:06 AM
Response to Reply #17
35. Someone close to death
A very good friend of mine has been on dyalsis for over 5 years now. He and I talked not too long ago and he was opening up about the things he felt bad about in his life (sort of confession for non-catholics). He talked about how sorry he was for the people he hurt and said he wished he hadn't been so evil. He grew up on the south side of Chicago and spent time in Viet Nam. He's had some opportunities to do some very bad things.

I told him he isn't evil and I know that because he feels bad about what he has done. Maybe it took him a while to get there, but maybe he had to stop fighting long enough to let his feelings catch up.

An evil person can't even see how evil he is. It seems normal to him.

If someone facing death doesn't have the clasic life review to concentrate on I guess they have to grab for every shred of possible power and glory they can on their way out.

Bon voyage!

I told
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kera Donating Member (294 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 02:14 AM
Response to Reply #13
21. how could someone at the dead end
yet so greedy

I believe that his heart problem has affected his judgment because there is no way some one with half wit would repeat over and over the same fable about WMD and not realizing that it has already been dismissed by his own administration.

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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 02:29 AM
Response to Reply #21
27. Fable is a very good way to describe it
Let's use that
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punpirate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 02:29 AM
Response to Reply #13
28. Keep in mind that Dean...
... should get some recognition for testifying, even when it might have meant that he spend some time in jail. It was Dean who, for the most part, verified important points in Alexander Butterfield's testimony, and testified that he tried to get Nixon to straighten out the mess by telling the truth.

Dean, ultimately, wasn't one of the bad guys in that mess. When I watched the hearings, I thought he might have been one of the bad guys, but, damn, he helped break it open--he put honesty above political loyalty, and that puts him in a fundamentally different class from the bozos running this country now. I'm picking up his latest book on my next order.
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jackstraw45 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 02:03 AM
Response to Original message
15. Cheney has a heart?
Would never know it from looking at his career and voting record in congress...
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sweetheart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 02:20 AM
Response to Reply #15
23. Indeed, the irony of being heartless and..
facing death by heart sickness. It so much reminds me of those
cadavers that the soviet union would prop up for leadership. In
the last stages of a dying empire, why not put up dead people to
lead... they make better puppets if you can control the smell.
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 02:07 AM
Response to Original message
19. Maybe that's what the bunker is about.
He has a hospital setting in his basement keeping him alive, OR it's where they keep the sarcophagus that rejuvenates him every night.
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Mayberry Machiavelli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 02:09 AM
Response to Reply #19
20. That, and drinking the blood of very young boys, LOL. eom
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 02:16 AM
Response to Original message
22. Absolutely concur although I doubt he ever had a heart to begin with
I have heard throught the grapevine that (a) he is much sicker than anyone is letting on; and (b) the BLASTING under his residence was in order to install a full operating suite underground. (I have a link about the blasting - it was post 9/11, lasted around 8-10 months).

My question: what kind of effect would such a dire medical condition haave on someone's mental & emotional health? Could it increase paranoia, for instance?
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patricia92243 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 02:20 AM
Response to Original message
24. Somebody HAS to run the government - if not him - who??
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ThatPoetGuy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 02:31 AM
Response to Original message
29. Cheney's heart? Is that an oxymoron? EOM
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 02:36 AM
Response to Original message
30. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
bobbyboucher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 02:41 AM
Response to Reply #30
31. What the fuck?
I don't know what the hell you just said, but if it was a joke, I don't get it.
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Scairp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 02:54 AM
Response to Reply #31
32. Don't worry about it
This "person" will be gone soon, I'm betting. I personally have hit the "alert" function on two of his/her post. This the the first time I have ever done that and I'm quite sure I'm not the only one to report this freeper.
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corporatewhore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 04:50 AM
Response to Reply #32
43. first time for me too
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Djinn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 03:08 AM
Response to Reply #31
36. no it wasn't
Edited on Wed Apr-07-04 03:13 AM by Djinn
clearly after a couple of hundred posts holding his/her/it's tongue it's all got to much for scucci

This is one of it's nicer posts for the day - try the "what do you think of Islam" rant for a good laugh

Oh and scucci - just so your head can pop right off with indignant rage, yep that WOULD make me happy - in fact I volunteer to give the bastard a big fright if he ever makes it down my way.
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PeakOil2008 Donating Member (200 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 03:00 AM
Response to Original message
34. There's a term doctors use for someone who has had 5 heart attacks...
Dead.

Seriously, folks. I'm not even trying to be funny here. I'm certain that Cheney's doc on numerous occasions has told him to kick back, go fish, and make the most of whatever time he has left. Hell, it's certainly what I would do, were I in his shoes. Why put yourself under all the additional stress that comes with a position of power? For fame? For legacy? Not much of that will be remembered in history if you end up kicking the bucket halfway through your term.

And yet ol' tricky Dick's acting like he's going to be here for another 50 years. Get real, you fool.
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Crunchy Frog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 04:48 AM
Response to Reply #34
42. My guess is that he derives his main
pleasure in life from machievellian political machinations. Therefore, he is spending the time he has left kicking back and doing the things he really enjoys.

I doubt that he's stressing himself much, he's probably having the time of his life.
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belle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 03:11 AM
Response to Original message
37. I'm telling you, Cheney ain't nuthin but a head in a jar...
His "body" is hologrammed on for the rare public occasion. "Struth!
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T Bone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 05:57 AM
Response to Reply #37
44. Maybe we are only seeing a Dick Double
Saddam had doubles in the hundreds. Why not one reasonable facsimile for the Dickster?

Seems like he would already be dead given all the health problems delineated in this thread.
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LibertyorDeath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 03:16 AM
Response to Original message
39. My wife is a cardio tech & we always refer to him as crash cart Cheney

I'm sure there's one on hand every where he goes and a full surgical suite in his bunker/house.

He looks a little stressed in this pic :) LOL





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caledesi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 04:10 AM
Response to Original message
40. Cheney has a heart? nt
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mb7588a Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 04:29 AM
Response to Original message
41. FDR...
This kind of hiding of his health would be on par with the deals that were cut with the media during FDR's campaign and subsequent terms... By the end, the guy was a shaking shriveling vegetable. Even Truman was shocked when they met at how sick the old guy was.

In fact, it would make sense... Considering all the neo-con bias around the D.C. correspondent's circle. We scratch your backs, you scratch ours etc... It wouldn't be all that difficult to prop the guy up in whatever room he needs to be in for his morning fibrillation and pill popping.
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onethatcares Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 06:12 AM
Response to Original message
45. when you sell your soul
you can live forever :evilgrin:
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Mayberry Machiavelli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 04:25 PM
Response to Reply #45
46. But the bill comes due in brimstone, eh? EOM
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