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AnnitaR Donating Member (958 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 12:07 AM
Original message
WTC closed the night before 9/11
A caller on Larry King Live tonight asked Karen Hughes about the WTC having bomb sniffing dogs and police tape closing the buildings the night before 9/11.

Can someone give me more info about this? I know someone from FEMA was caught slipping up saying that they were set up there the night before. However, I hadn't heard anything about the dogs or the buildings being closed.
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Eye and Monkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 12:09 AM
Response to Original message
1. So, what did Karenot Huge say?
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Must_B_Free Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 12:10 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. she said she had never heard of that
I have also never heard of that and I have heard most of them...

Interesting...
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 12:13 AM
Response to Original message
3. john oneil
it is john who died in the towers and fbi dude in new york. i watched a couple hour thing on him the other nite. and they went all the way to the night before, and he was working in the towers, and there was no mention that anything was going on with the towers. if they had shut it down and sniffing dogs, i would think he would have been aware and would be known
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Must_B_Free Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 12:21 AM
Response to Reply #3
7. How do we know John O'neil is dead
Just because he is missing?

Did they every find his body?

I'm sorry, but a spook gone missing does not = he died, necessarily...
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 01:30 AM
Response to Reply #7
33. They didn't find a lot of bodies. Maybe you forgot that.
I'm pretty sure I took a good, deep breath of John O'Neil on September 15.
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Pastiche423 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 01:43 AM
Response to Reply #7
45. Jerry Hauer
the man who found John O'Neill the position at the World Trade Center, also was the man that "identified" John's body.

I've always thought that odd, that he, instead of one of John's many ladies performed that task.

http://globalresearch.ca/articles/KUP206A.html
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 12:28 AM
Response to Reply #3
9. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 01:18 AM
Original message
Israelis?
Find me a witness or give me a link.

What utter unbelievable trash.
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Djinn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 01:37 AM
Response to Original message
39. there was actually several
news agencies that covered this story, here are a couple I found in two minues net searching:

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/2020/DailyNews/2020_whit...

http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?ite...

Also a piece I can't find anymore but certainly existed was by Al Guart in the New York Post
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sir_captain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 01:26 AM
Response to Reply #9
30. yeah, what are you trying to say?
be more specific in your accusations please
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markses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 12:17 AM
Response to Original message
4. Never happened
A close friend was in the mall there the night before, and reported that everything was as normal. it wasn't the type of place you could shut down with tape without folks noticing. There were subway stops there and restaurants.
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Must_B_Free Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 12:20 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. Wasn;t tha mall totally underground
i.e. different than the towers? N If she was at the mall, she didn;t likely go to the towers.

What a bizarre tidbit to slip out on National TV...
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sir_captain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 12:32 AM
Response to Reply #5
12. the stores were part of the towers
you had to go in ground level to get to them. they're certainly part of the building.
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 01:34 AM
Response to Reply #12
36. Borders Books was above and below ground.
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sir_captain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 01:35 AM
Response to Reply #36
37. yeah, you're right
though the vast majority of shopping was underground, and actually, was still there until pretty recently--an underground ghost town with the products still sitting there in the abandoned stores
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markses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 12:38 AM
Response to Reply #5
16. Doncha think some folks from
Windows on the World and Greatest bar on Earth would have noticed?

Besides, you got into the towers through the complex, the same way you got into the mall. You didn't walk across the square into the "front doors" of a WTC Tower!
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 01:35 AM
Response to Reply #16
38. Yup. Not to mention the picture IDs, ropes, and guards.
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 12:51 AM
Response to Reply #5
19. Part was at ground level and part below. This sounds like urban myth.
There has been no talk of this in NY.

WTC was a huge mix of subways, PATH trains, mall, plaza, office towers, pedestrian bridges. Could not be shut down without the knowledge of many, many people. People whose memory would have been recorded in the aftermath.
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 01:27 AM
Response to Reply #5
31. And only one person in all of America saw it?
How the hell would anyone close down thousands of offices and NOBODY mention it?

The WTC did international business which means all time zones. Which means some offices were regularly open at night.

Oh, I suppose everyone who knew is dead. Is that the story?

Boy, one could almost suspect this sudden onslaught of WTC disinformation might have something to do with BushCo's nervousness about the hearings. If everybody is busy believing a million pointless ridiculous things, why, maybe they won't notice that our government's leaders let it happen. WHICH WOULD DESTROY THEM.
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 01:32 AM
Response to Reply #5
35. Never been to NYC? Or the towers?
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DustMolecule Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 12:20 AM
Response to Original message
6. So, detonation devices were planted the night before
and then he (O'Neil was double-crossed and went down with the buildings????) - well, THAT's a new one!!!
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Must_B_Free Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 12:23 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. Doesn't add up though
You don't bring bomb sniffing dogs to PLANT explosives... It just seems to imply that they knew it was a target...
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DustMolecule Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 12:29 AM
Response to Reply #8
11. I dunno....what would happen if you did?
....was just thinking that a 'good defense is a good offense'. Something WEIRD and unusual happened. Ya gotta think 'outta the box'...
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chrisdfer Donating Member (24 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 01:30 AM
Response to Reply #11
32. Tin foil...
Gotta wear a tin foil hat too. Keeps them pesky goverment mind control waves out.
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 01:41 AM
Response to Reply #11
43. Let's talk about that box.
Nobody here thinks it is the tiniest bit offensive to assume the Saudis, Egyptians, and al qaeda weren't competent enough to do this on their own? That it needed smart white guys to do it for them?

Basically, the explosives theory is racist, pure and simple.
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Scairp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 01:39 AM
Response to Reply #8
41. Dogs don't sound suspicious to me
Perhaps that was something LE did regularly and routinely after the '93 bombing, taking dogs through selected parts of the buildings. Or maybe just by coincidence they got a bomb threat on Sept. 10th that had nothing to do with what happened the next day. I'm sure that also occurred from time to time. I don't think there's anything to this.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 12:28 AM
Response to Reply #6
10. it was all about taking out oneil
i knew we would come up with the answer. d*mn we are good
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 01:43 AM
Response to Reply #6
44. Reeks a bit of desperation?
Anything to get our minds off Condi?
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NecessaryOnslaught Donating Member (691 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 12:32 AM
Response to Original message
13. "Heightened Security Alert Had Just Been Lifted"
September 12, 2001

"Daria Coard, 37, a guard at Tower One, said the security detail had been working 12-hour shifts for the past two weeks because of numerous phone threats. But on Thursday, bomb-sniffing dogs were abruptly removed."

"Today was the first day there was not the extra security," Coard said. Security guard Hermina Jones said officials had recently taken steps to secure the towers against aerial attacks by installing bulletproof windows and fireproof doors in the 22nd-floor computer command center."


http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/nation/ny-nyale...


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sir_captain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 12:33 AM
Response to Original message
14. wouldn't this go against LIHOP or at least MIHOP?
why would they need bomb dogs there if they knew about the planes?
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chrisdfer Donating Member (24 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 01:30 AM
Response to Reply #14
34. Don't
Don't ask such questions.
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 01:38 AM
Response to Reply #14
40. It's to distract you from LIHOP and MIHOP.
Let me see. In this scenario, the Saudis are maligned innocents and the Israelis are guilty. Well, aren't they always?

Gosh, I wonder where this tale got started.
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sir_captain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 01:40 AM
Response to Reply #40
42. oh, right, i forgot
the mossad did it

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markses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 12:35 AM
Response to Original message
15. Now for something truly weird from a few days before September 11
It was Saturday, September 8. My wife and I were going to drive out to a friend's place on Long Island (West Babylon, to be exact) for his annual end-of-summer barbecue. But when we got up that morning, my wife was in one of those "I hate my clothes!" moods, throwing stuff out of her closet on to the bedroom floor and generally being insufferable (it ain't just her - I've been with other women who get into this mood, and it's even come over me more than once). I suggested that we get some breakfast, then take the train into the WTC and pick up some clothes so that she'd a) STFU about it and b) feel comfortable at the barbecue. So, a few stops on the N or R train later (five stops, actually: Lawrence, Court, South Ferry, Rector, Cortlandt: 15 minutes) we were in the WTC mall, so that she could start complaining about the sizes in Banana republic ("Why am I a size 4 here?!?"). I bought a shirt, then told her I'd meet up with her at the record store on the south end of the mall. Strolled up to Borders for a while, then went back down to the record store. Picked up a couple of CDs, then decided not to buy them. Instead, I'd step out and have a cigarette. OK, that's preface. Here's the weird part.

I was sitting outside the south side of the mall, and for some reason, i began to think about hovercrafts. Y'know, cars that fly - in this case, in a kind of Jetson's mode. I was looking around, and thinking about how a traffic pattern would be arranged if cars could fly. It was an idle thought. The kind you have 30-40 times a day, but immediately forget. Then, as I was figuring out the pattern, I looked up and saw the south tower (literally towering over me, as it were). No way, I thought. That's why we don't have hovercrafts, I thought. First, people can't even drive on two dimensional surfaces; if they had to go up and down, they'd smash into each other all the time. Then what happens? They come crashing out of the sky and land on your dumb ass. Second, idiots would always be crashing into things, like this building here. If there were cars that flew, people would be flying into this here building (the South Tower) 20 times a year, killing all sorts of folks. My wife suddenly appeared with several bags, and i told her what I'd been thinking. She gave me that look that wives wisely give their husbands 20 times a day - somewhere between "You're an idiot," and "I'm so glad I'm not a man," kinda look. I gave the South Tower one last look from almost directly beneath it.

An idle thought I'll never forget. September 8, 2001. World Trade Center, New York City.
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sir_captain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 12:43 AM
Response to Reply #15
17. i hear you
i had a lemonade in the mall on sep. 9th, and a sandwich in cosi sandwiches next door, which two days later became a morgue

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markses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 12:55 AM
Response to Reply #17
20. Did you keep your receipts?
Here's the receipts that I have:

Banana Republic: $78.00 120 World Trade Center (9/8/01)
J Crew: $127.50 230 World Trade Center (9/8/01)
Brooks Brothers: $39.95 1 Church Street (9/8/01)
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Must_B_Free Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 12:58 AM
Response to Reply #20
21. I have my room key from a hotel
the next block over. Sept 1st.
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sir_captain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 01:09 AM
Response to Reply #20
22. neh
i'm not much for momentos of that sort

i've got the smell of burnt human flesh to remember always

i dunno...maybe it's cause i'm a nyer and wasn't a tourist

i'll stick with my ticket stubs from game 6 of the 75 series
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markses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 01:14 AM
Response to Reply #22
24. Uh, slow down there, pardner
I'm a New yorker, and sure as hell not a tourist. Hell, I even grew up here. ;-)

And I got my share of burnt flesh smell from the next Tuesday through December.

But I also got a file with a bunch of stuff, if only to show the kids one day. And it was just stuff I had, like matchboxes from the Greatest Bar on Earth. I didn't collect any stuff afterward.

Anyway, just thought I'd defend myself here.
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sir_captain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 01:17 AM
Response to Reply #24
25. i wasn't attacking you
sorry if that's how it came across...

people i cared about died that day...i don't think i want any physical reminder of it

but i don't think there's anything wrong with what you did either...

and in any case, as lifelong NYers, we need to band together against all these DUers who don't know the difference between the west side and the east side! ;-)
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markses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 01:19 AM
Response to Reply #25
27. True dat
And those who think Brooklyn is a suburb of Mah-att'n. ;-)
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sir_captain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 01:22 AM
Response to Reply #27
28. heh
that too

I think they think Dumbo is a kid's movie or something
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 01:52 AM
Response to Reply #27
49. It's not?
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markses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 02:21 AM
Response to Reply #49
57. Most folks in Manhattan
Grew up in suburbs. Most folks in Brooklyn grew up in Brooklyn (i.e., NYC). So you tell me, which is the suburb? ;-)
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sir_captain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 02:24 AM
Response to Reply #57
58. heh
well, i'm one life-long manhattanite ;-)
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markses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 02:25 AM
Response to Reply #58
59. Rare one
I go to manhattan now and most people are from goddamn minnesota, or "just outside boston," or illinois. blech. ;-)
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sir_captain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 02:29 AM
Response to Reply #59
60. yeah, i know what you mean
all roads lead to manhattan, i guess ;-)

i'm never planning on leaving if i can avoid it
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markses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 02:31 AM
Response to Reply #60
61. I won't leave either
It would mean that I would have to move to America. Double blech. :evilgrin:
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sir_captain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 02:32 AM
Response to Reply #61
62. haha
other people will probably look down their noses at us, but i understand what you're saying completely
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 01:50 AM
Response to Reply #20
48. No, but two weeks before 9/11 I bought a peppermill in Lechters
in the concourse. After 9/11 I took it out of the kitchen and kept staring at it. It took me two months to walk into a local Lechters and ask if the kids in the WTC store who bagged my peppermill and took my money were still alive. They told me all their personnel got out.
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DustMolecule Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 12:44 AM
Response to Reply #15
18. lol @your perception of your wife's glances...
...she obviously loves you and is 'gonna keep you around for awhile' ;-)

As for the rest, I dunno, but thanks for sharing it!
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Lindsey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 01:12 AM
Response to Reply #18
23. Something I've always been curious about regarding the #'s
Shouldn't the whole wtc complex have been packed on 9/11 or was it too early?..or were they packed but a lot of folks got out? I just remember that the original estimates were 10,000 people would ultimately be killed.
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markses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 01:18 AM
Response to Reply #23
26. It was early. And a lot of folks did get out.
A lot of folks.
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sir_captain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 01:25 AM
Response to Reply #23
29. yeah
it was before normal work hours, for the most part, and the FDNY did a *phenomenal* job getting people out. they saved thousands and thousands of lives. and frankly, a few of the posts here on DU claiming that the fire department was in cahoots with LIHOP or MIHOP is really offensive to all those brave men who were rushing in to the building while everyone else was rushing out.
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DustMolecule Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 01:46 AM
Response to Reply #23
46. Yes, I know what you're saying....
...the number of people who died that day, although terribly terribly high, was thankfully much lower than what might have been 'expected', considering how many people worked in those towers. Also Mayor Guiliani had 'early on' alluded to a much higher death toll...he said something like 'too many to bear'.

There was some sort of big NY 'game' the night before that made some ppl come in late. I also heard that some of the ppl were 'late' because 'pre-school' was just starting that day and they wanted to see their lil youngin' off...I dunno, combination of things....
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sir_captain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 01:49 AM
Response to Reply #46
47. 3000 people dying isn't "too much to bear?"
are you serious? do you have any fucking clue how many people's lives were ruined that day? give me a fucking break.
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 02:11 AM
Response to Reply #47
53. The poster is accurately quoting Giuliani
During that day, at one of his periodical press conferences, which were a godsend - especially to those of us in NYC who had NO ONE else to turn to for answers - Giuliani was asked if he had an estimate on how many people were killed, and his answer was "more than any of us can bear." And that was the correct answer. And at that point I was telling my father long-distance that it was 10,000.

To quote Giuliani is not to diminish what happened that day. Why so hostile?
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sir_captain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 02:18 AM
Response to Reply #53
55. As I was in NYC, same as you,
I completely agree about Rudy and everything he said and did.

And perhaps I read the poster wrong, in which case I apologize. But I took his/her post, which was a reply agreeing to a post that I took as being skeptical of the hugeness of what happened, in a different way than you did. I took the poster's meaning as saying that the reality was not so bad in comparison to "what we could bear"

After reading your post, I can see I may have been projecting. Ah well. This is a topic that's still very hard for me to talk about.
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 02:44 AM
Response to Reply #55
63. It's still too hard
If you were here, it's very different. There's a lot of internet speculation that is infuriating.

In regard to this post I think it is the most famous quote by Giuliani and so legit.
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 02:01 AM
Response to Reply #46
51. Some people had stopped to vote.
It was our primary.
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 02:18 AM
Response to Reply #51
54. And it was the first day of school
I think that's why the guy from Cantor survived - late because he was taking his kid to the first day of first grade or something.
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sir_captain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 02:20 AM
Response to Reply #54
56. Yeah, that's true
first day of kindergarten i believe. good friend of mine from college worked at Cantor and wasn't there that day, but 99% of everyone in his office (including his girlfriend's father) was killed.
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 01:59 AM
Response to Reply #23
50. I didn't realize until I saw aerial photos of the Battery.
Thousands of people jammed up at the water's edge.

One friend told a story of a sailing ship, a tall ship that was in the water there, with a contingent of school children and their parents. The captain wanted to get them away but was afraid to sail under the bridges in case they were attacked next.

From the ship they watched the attacks and something else: they watched every boat in the harbor turn toward the Battery without hesitation. They went in like Dunkirk and evacuated the dust-covered survivors at the edge of Manhattan. Some didn't get home for days. My sister's godson was among them.
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 02:03 AM
Response to Reply #23
52. Yes, during that day we were all hearing "10,000"
but thank god it happened early enough that many people weren't at work yet. First attack at 8:46 - most people start at 9:00 or 9:30. The first attack deterred most of those who hadn't gotten to work yet. Also many weren't due in until 9:30.

So many stories I have heard about people who stopped to get a coffee or something and then decided not to go up until it calmed down.

ONE hour later and it would have been ten thousand or more.
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DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 04:35 AM
Response to Reply #23
64. I had heard it was also the 1st day of school
so a lot of people were later for work than usual. Besides most office jobs in NYC don't even think about starting until 9:00 AM and coming in a little later is often acceptable behavior.

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