Gore has best chance against Bush in these confusing times- Daily Herald

[Jackson4Gore]

http://www.dailyherald.com/oped/col_mabley.asp?intID=37836152

Gore has best chance against Bush in these confusing times
Posted August 03, 2003

Al Gore has the best chance of any Democrat to beat George W. Bush next year.

None of the eight or nine Democrats jockeying for the nomination is very impressive. None comes close to matching Gore's qualifications.

Southerner. Vice president for eight prosperous years. Former senator. One of the few politicians of his generation who served in Vietnam instead of ducking it.

He received half a million more votes than Bush in 2000. He or his staff screwed up on the electoral vote. He is not likely to repeat that mistake.

Two bumper stickers would be inevitable. One: "Re-elect Al Gore." Two: "Are you better off today than four years ago?"

EDITED BY ADMIN: COPYRIGHT

[Maple]

1. Oh DO stop

Running a two time loser with Clinton baggage against today's up and comers will simply wreck your party.

Move on.

[Name removed]

2. Deleted message

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[Maple]

4. Yes, a two time loser

Lost to Clinton, lost to Bush.

However you may complain about vote counting, he is a 'loser' to the American people.

No one is going 'left'....left and right are dead relics of the Cold War.

How be you get a life, and move on?

[Jackson4Gore]

11. How did he lose to Clinton.

You need to get your facts straight. If this party picks a small town governor who cant even debate Tim Russert, they will lose alot of the party.

Last time I checked he got at least 500,000 more votes than Bush. How is he a loser? Your facts are slanted.

[Maple]

13. He was asked to be VP

because he didn't have the backing to be president.

You can check the votes all you want. He ain't in the WH as president.

And won't ever be.

[Jackson4Gore]

21. Gore ruled out running in 92 due to a family tragedy

get your damn facts straight.

[Maple]

27. It doesn't matter if a meteor struck the planet

He lost. End of story.

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

36. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

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[Maple]

46. FOCUS....IT DOESN'T MATTER

He has a popular image...true or not...that's it.

He won't win.

Even against Bush.

Move on.

[Samantha]

54. You are mistaken

Many people thought the Clinton-Gore positioning on the ticket should be reversed, that Gore was the most qualified and Clinton had too much of a reputation as womanizer to get elected. Clinton chose Gore because of his impeccable reputation, and many credit that choice with helping Clinton win (both terms). It was also rumored here in Washington often that Gore ran the Country during much of the impeachment proceedings because Clinton was too depressed to do so. Other than that there about eight areas of interest Clinton gave Gore total control over from the very beginning; Gore was "president" of those areas. Clinton modeled much of his 92 campaign on Gore's 88 centrist theory. Clinton owes Gore much more than the reverse, so let's give credit where credit is due.

Furthermore, there are many people who recognize Gore as the legitimate winner of the 2000 election. The New York Times reported this week 39 percent of those polled (a number it has consistently derived from its polling) say Bush* is not legitimate.

You cannot get away with repeating Republican talking points against Gore here on this site if I see them, because like Al Franken, I am not going to take it anymore. And if Gore does run, neither will he. He made the mistake of pledging to run a clean campaign in 2000 and didn't respond to much of the mud that was thrown at him. To his credit, he lived up to that pledge to the American people, a pledge that has made him ridiculed as not being much of a fighter. If he runs this time, that will not be a problem because there are many people who will be willing, make that more than willing, to stand up and sling the mud right back. Are you reading this, Karl Rove?

[Maple]

58. Many people thought a lot of things

Gore lost, Bush won.

Nobody cares about all your nice little talking points.

Gore is seen as a loser. Fair or not.

Find someone else.

Someone that can win.

[Samantha]

73. I will be writing in Al Gore in 2004 whether he runs or not

After reading to the end of this thread, I have come to the conclusion he's fortunate not to have your support. You have no right to tell anyone who to support or not support. A person's choice as to whom to vote for is a purely personal decision -- so maybe you and Renquist can get over that. Bush is the true loser of the 2000 election and that's what will go down in the history books.

[newyawker99]

78. dems4america

Per DU copyright rules
please post only 4
paragraphs from the
news source.

Thank you.


NYer99
DU Moderator

[DemPopulist]

14. He didn't lose to Clinton...

Gore didn't run in '92, he ran in '88 when he was 40 and came in third (ahead of Gephardt). Most people have said if Gore ran in '92, Clinton wouldn't have, and the Bush campaign was most fearful of him winning the nomination.

And of course he didn't lose in 2000 either.;-) I'm not really for the draft movement but the anti-Gore Dems piss me off.

[Jackson4Gore]

17. He would have won if damn Jesse Jackson hadnt made a joke out of the

whole thing and won the south. Plus the Gore campaign ran out of money. Hardley a loss.

[Maple]

18. People say a lot of things

He lost.

Nice guy, decent man, it's not fair...yada yada...do you want to win this time or not?

If so, forget Gore.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

24. He Didn't Lose To Clinton

He ran in the 88 primaries.

[Maple]

28. Who was president?

Clinton or Gore?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

35. He Never Ran Against Clinton

I was making an emperical observation.

I don't want to get in these intramural pissing matchs.

[Maple]

38. He was never president

in spite of trying twice.

However you see it...he's yesterday's news.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

42. It's Not Like We Have An

embarassment of riches to choose from.

[Maple]

48. You have several good candidates

and if you got behind them, you could sweep the country.

[Samantha]

31. Gore never lost to Clinton

In 1992, he said he would not run. Clinton talked him into running on the ticket with him and offered the equivalent of a co-presidency to do so.

He lost the 88 primaries, but he was only 39. It was a premature run.

Gore's the best qualified person to run, so I hope he throws his hat in the race.

[Maple]

59. Who was president?

Who was not?

[Samantha]

74. According to David Mariness

author of First in His Class (Clinton's biography) and Prince of Tennessee (Gore's biography), it was a co-presidency. The answer to your question is "both."

He has an impeccable reputation as a biographer and author, so if you don't mind I think I will go with his opinion as opposed to yours.

Perhaps you should read his work and get some facts before you start spouting erroneous information on this site.

And goodnight to you.

[w4rma]

70. Al Gore and Joe Lieberman *won* the election in 2000.

Al Gore kicked Shrub's pants off in Florida by ~46,000 votes. He beat Shrub nationwide be more than half a million votes. Had Florida been awarded to Al Gore as the voters in Florida wanted then Al Gore would have won by 45 (46 without the abstention) electoral votes.

"More than 113,000 voters cast ballots for two or more presidential candidates. Of those, 75,000 chose Mr. Gore and a minor candidate; 29,000 chose Mr. Bush and a minor candidate. Because there was no clear indication of what the voters intended, those numbers were not included in the consortium's final tabulations."
http://www.nytimes.com/2001/11/12/politics/recount/12VOTE.html

~46,000 is the margin that Al Gore *actually* won Florida by. *That* was the intent of the voters. Not some measly ~200 votes. Also, *without* those ~46K votes Al Gore still won according to Florida law (had SCOTUS not *unconstitutionally* interfered).
Sources:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/onpolitics/elections2000/recount/yourvote.html
http://slate.msn.com/?id=2058793
http://www.geocities.com/dearkandb/supremeqanda.html
http://www.the-rule-of-law.com/
http://www.ericblumrich.com/gta.html

Also, Al Gore got more popular votes that any other presidential candidate in the history of the United States, except for the time that Reagan won 49 out of 50 states' electoral votes. This was done while fending off an attack from the left *and* while fighting against a heavily biased media.
Sources:
http://www.mediachannel.org/views/whistleblower/palast.shtml
http://www.gregpalast.com/detail.cfm?artid=181&row=1
http://www.dailyhowler.com/
http://www.democraticunderground.com/cgi-bin/duforum/duboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=90&forum=DCForumID45
http://www.mediawhoresonline.com/

Count ballot as a vote if vote is indicated, but marked incorrectly. Example
Vote is indicated and marked correctly, but the candidate's name is also written in. Example
Ballot condition is agreed upon by at least two judges.
Count ballot as a vote if the chad is at least dimpled. Example
Final Tally: Gore won Florida by 107 votes.

Count ballot as a vote if vote is indicated, but marked incorrectly. Example
Vote is indicated and marked correctly, but the candidate's name is also written in. Example
Ballot condition is agreed upon by at least two judges.
Count ballot as a vote if the chad is detached from one or more corners. Example
Final Tally: Gore won Florida by 72 votes.

Count ballot as a vote if vote is indicated, but marked incorrectly. Example
Vote is indicated and marked correctly, but the candidate's name is also written in. Example
Ballot condition is agreed upon by at least two judges.
Count ballot as a vote if the chad is fully detached from ballot.
Final Tally: Gore won Florida by 430 votes.
Source: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/onpolitics/elections2000/recount/yourvote.html

For the count we've been keeping since Election Day, these are now the final numbers for a state-wide cumulative media recount.
http://www.unknownnews.net/election2000.html#count

[DemPopulist]

3. "Your party"?

:eyes:

[Maple]

6. Is it someone elses party?

.

I thought it was yours.

If you're a Republican, why are you here?

[DemPopulist]

9. YOU said...

"Running a two time loser with Clinton baggage against today's up and comers will simply wreck your party."

I was responding to you.;)

[Maple]

12. I know what I said

And if you run with Gore...you will lose...again.

4 more years of Bush.

Is that what you want?

[DemPopulist]

20. Of course not...

I was pointing out that you used the term "your party" like it isn't yours.

[Maple]

29. Are you trying to win or play word games?

.

[whoYaCallinAlib]

5. I think Gore has at least as good a chance of winning as any other dem.

He's the only one who has proven he can win a national election.

[Maple]

7. He has never won.

So how would you know?

[whoYaCallinAlib]

16. Does 8 years as VP ring any bells Maple?

Are you okay?

[Maple]

22. VP not President

and never going to be.

[whoYaCallinAlib]

23. I never said he won as president.

Are you sure you're okay?

[Maple]

30. I'm fine

You're losing a freebie presidential race because you are living in the past.

[whoYaCallinAlib]

39. If I'm living in the past, and I'm talking to you . . .

then where do you think you're living?

[Maple]

45. I'm living in the 21st century

You are in the 20th.

Move on.

[whoYaCallinAlib]

52. Now that was a devastating come-back! How will I ever recover?

Maybe if I shine shoes for a week, I can get my self-respect back.

[Maple]

60. Well you won't with Gore

Get with the program.

[whoYaCallinAlib]

66. To put this gently, you are far, far less than persuassive.

I don't think you've converted anyone to your way of thinking. That is not a good thing Sable.

[ldf]

19. how would i know??

i have a brain. you can repeat the lies all you want. when you lie it makes you irrelevant, and you certainly have succeeded on that point.

trot out your tired rhetoric where it will be appreciated, over at our sister site.

[Maple]

33. You also have a loser

Choose someone new.

[Blue_Roses]

76. never won?

I guess winnintg the popular vote doesn't count in your stack of word games

[wuushew]

8. Gore was a nice guy from a different era

2004 must be completely anti-bush, take no-prisioners

Dean is ANGRY, Kucinich is ANGRY, Kerry is sometimes Angry

I want blood in the water no appealing to the wimp in the middle. They can come along or be drowned by the democratic tide.

[Maple]

10. Now THAT

I agree with.

[Jackson4Gore]

15. NOPE

All anti Bush will fall faster than the stock market. Polls show they are less likely to vote for a person who opposes Bush on everything than someone who agrees somewhat on things.

If we take your way, we will lose for the next 20 years.

[Maple]

25. YUP

The very reason Dems are getting hammered is because they 'go along' too much.

Dean is rising because he opposes them. Same as Graham and Clark.

You are going to lose for the next 20 years if you keep going backwards.

Dems are supposed to be progressive, not regressive.

[wuushew]

26. I think energized base strategy wins against repuke strategy anyday

I am not calling Gore a bushlite canidate by any stretch, but his DLC masters are another matter. Look at Lieberman for crying out loud!

[DemPopulist]

34. Ahem...

Gore won with an energized base. He had great labor, African-American and Hispanic turn-out. It would've put him over the top if they hadn't taken it away from us in Florida.

Gore running in '04 would energize the base more than anything, but I don't think it's going to happen.

[wuushew]

40. There is MORE anger in 2004 than in 2000

Everyone who voted Gore plus some Greens would vote for the left of center canidates. Not all on the left would vote for Gore and some swing voters might not because he would be viewed as a waffler.

I support GORE! I supported him until shortly after his SNL performance.

[Maple]

49. Keep supporting Gore

Keep losing.

Bush thanks you.

[wuushew]

62. You misunderstand

My support for Gore is in the form of pulling the level for Dean or Kerry.

I mearly wished to avoid some sort of Gore "support the troops" argument.

[DemPopulist]

53. That's why I'm not for Gore getting back in unless

there's a real draft at the convention or in the primaries. There is a lot of anger but you have to have a candidate who's reasonably acceptable to mainstream America in order to harness it. It isn't true that any left-of-center candidate would get what Gore got last time. I think there's tons of people who voted for Gore who certainly wouldn't vote for Kucinich or even Dean or Kerry.

[Maple]

63. If there were tons of people

who preferred Gore...Dubya wouldn't be running things now.

[Blue_Roses]

77. What's the difference

in Bush and Iraq--nothing--they both occupy a place that didn't recieve the popular vote.

[JustJoe]

44. Dems4America

Question: What state are you in & will you vote for Gore
in the primary if he runs?

[Forkboy]

47. "If we take your way, we will lose for the next 20 years."

You're right.

Thank God your way has let us keep the House...oh wait.
Thank God your way has kept us in control of Congress...oh wait.
Thank God your way has gotten us the White House...oh wait.

nevermind.

[Skip Intro]

37. Gore won the last one, he'll win this one too

He is the best shot we have, not that we don't have some other damned good shots, but nobody beats Gore for 04.

[Maple]

41. Gore has lost permanently

And if you put him in there again...you will lose again.

He is known world wide as Gore the Bore.

Unfair, nasty, untrue...but that is the image.

And you'll have Bush for 4 more years.

Can you afford that?

[Name removed]

50. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Maple]

51. I am neither a 'him'

nor a Freeper

And stop dismissing people as such, because they disagree with you.

It doesn't work.

Face reality.

[mbee]

57. Excuse me - Gore is the leader of the pack since he secured

more votes than any President Candidate ever other than Ronald RayGun! I'm tired of hearing the bogus loser thing. As much as I love Clinton he only won because of the vote divide with Ross Perot. Get the facts straight!

[Maple]

65. Gore has no 'pack'

He isn't even running.

And here's a flash for ya...voters don't care about 'facts'

They vote for winners. Gore isn't one.

[Skip Intro]

72. "YOU will lose again" ???!!! What about WE?!

Or are YOU not one of US?

:dem:

one edit: and the term "lose" is inacurrate.

[Pastiche423]

56. Gore did not fight

for what was his and ours in 2000. If he had, we would not be where we are today.

Our country desperately needs a fighter, now more than ever.

[Jackson4Gore]

64. Hey buddy how about reading history books

the Supreme put an end to the recount and most Dems were calling for him to concede. Dont blame him. He could not do anything.

[Jim Sagle]

43. Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.......

:boring:

[Maple]

55. Had you thought of a nap?

Elsewhere?

[cherryperry]

71. Agreed - yawning here! n/t

[bowens43]

61. gore isn't running

so he has no chance. Get over it people, gore isn't running and if he did, he would lose.

[Maple]

67. Exactly!

.

[wuushew]

69. Thats completely true but not stated in terms people find comfortable

Just compare Gore to Nixon

1960 very close election, neither canidate enjoying overwhelming support

LBJ untouchable from death of JFK later destroyed by Vietnam war
Bush untouchable from 911 later destroyed by terrorism/Iraq quagmire


Gore is a modern day, non-criminal Nixon figure

[Colin Ex]

68. How I feel about the Draft Gore movement is irrelevant, but...

I have a feeling, man, that you aren't going to convince many people here to switch their support over, because everyone has their support pretty much already decided. And most are really anal about it.

Just my two cents, I guess.

-C

[Gingergal]

75. Thanks for a great post.

This writer sums it up nicely.