Public transportation: where has it gone? This is going to be

[harrison]

a rather disjointed post, but I want to get this off my chest, which means nothing in the scheme of things, other than getting it off my chest.

Let me start by saying that I live in rural Mississippi. (no jokes please). When I was very small, there used to be train travel in our benighted state. In fact, there was train travel everywhere in the 1950's, although by the late 50's, it was really dying out.

A person could go down to the depot, buy a ticket, make a couple of changes and end up in downtown Memphis, where they could then shop at some pretty decent department stores near the muddy Mississippi. Then, they could gather their belongs at the end of the day and take the trains back home.

Granted, in some ways it easier, but the loss of trains and the advent of automobiles changed everything in this country. Downtowns deteriorated, strip malls arose, ugly architecture popped up with billboards and signs. Of course, we had the rise of suburbia. Then came the four lanes, and huge trucks which began transporting more and more. Then, traffic jams because more and more people had to have a car.

Of course, much of this started under the Eisenhower administration who started the interstate system. Apparently, Eisenhower got the idea from the German autobahn which he saw after the war. It is my understanding that the autobahn was built so that Hitler could move massive amounts of materiel and troops in a rapid amount of time.

So, during the 50's, the car makers, the oil companies, and the road contractors figured out that there was a gold mine by building up the car culture in our country. And they were right.

Except, the internal combustion engine has created havoc with the environment, and really what has the car culture done to quality of life?

I have made two trips to Europe and in both cases had the privilege of riding the rails. And it is just fantastic. One can sit back, enjoy the countryside, enjoy a drink, go to sleep, engage in conversation and do it rather cheaply.

Furthermore, the tube in London is just a great way to travel. And the Metro in Paris wasn't bad either. I have done subways in New York and Boston and for a poor ole country boy from Mississippi, I found American subways rather daunting. Something about the crime rate, although the last time I rode the subway in New York, things were much better. I think the Marta in Atlanta is a pretty good thing.

Now, even the poorest person has to spend a good deal of money to have a car just to get to work. There is really no public transportion for them in rural areas.

My point is that we have missed the boat. We should have been developing an oustanding public transportation system in this country. We SHOULD have high speed trains that will get us from point a to point b much faster than taking an automobile.

Imagine what we could have had if the money which has been spent on roads could have been invested in high speed trains.

Anyway, I am sure that there are holes in my argument which DUer's will glady point out.

However, based on my experience in Europe, it sure seems as if we have missed the boat.

And one final note: the population is exploding across the world. What are we going to do? Sell a car to everyone in China. It just seems to me that we can't keep going as we are going. I don't know that the environment can take it.

[grasswire]

1. can't agree more

I gave up the idea of having a car two years ago when my old beloved Volvo needed a couple of thousand dollars more in repair than it was worth. I made a moral choice to not own a car. I live in a town of about 125,000 people with moderate bus service, once an hour during the day, twice an hour at rush hour, no service at all on Sunday. I can connect with Amtrak or Greyhound for service to the larger city 60 miles away if I want to go there.

For daily errands, I walk or ride the city bus. When I bring home too many groceries to carry, I take a cab. My transportation costs are about $30 per month, total, for two of us. What car owner can meet that? If I want to, I can rent a car for a weekend.

And the best thing is that I have no ownership in wars for oil.

[BlueJazz]

2. The truth of the matter is that......

someday we will have good public transportation.
It will happen when the price of fuel requires it.
It will happen when your everyday commute will make today's rush-hour commute seem like a "Sunday outing"
It will happen when our streets and highways are to expensive to maintain because of the overwhelming traffic.
..just a matter of time...

[Karenina]

6. I wish I had your optimism.

"Someday" no longer means anything to me, the situation is FUBAR NOW. As a child I was begeistert at Disney's monorail and questioned the car culture. Then I learned how the tire companies bought the rail tracks in L.A. and tore them out of the ground. By the time fuel prices "require it" you can be sure there will not be resources to fund such infrastructure.

I can leave my front door and have my pick of 5 trains to take me where I want to go. 4 run every 10 minutes on weekdays and every 15 weekends.
OR I can ride my bike (or don inline skates) on the specially designated red pavement. What it seems Amis fail to realize is IMMOBILITY IS a part of the plan. No way to get TIA if folks are running all over kingdom come minding their business, doing their thing...

[Lydia Leftcoast]

3. I hear ya

and I have been a public transit advocate since I lived in Japan in the 1970s.

(Imagine having train service to every major and most not-so-major cities. Imagine 4 high-speed rail lines running nearly the length of the country and across it at one point. Imagine five cities with subways. Imagine above-ground trains and streetcars and frequent buses in most other areas. Imagine office workers and business executives riding bicycles to the nearest train or subway station. Imagine all this in a country the size of California.)

Passenger rail service disappeared because it was losing out in comparison to the new interstate highways and airlines, and rather than modernize their trains, the railroads, which were all privately owned, decided to drop their passenger services. The first step was to drive passengers away with unreliable service, rude personnel, and dirty trains. (I remember this era and a particularly awful trip, after which my parents, who had previously enjoyed taking the train 350 miles from our home in Wisconsin to Minneapolis to visit relatives, vowed never to take the train again.)

Perhaps if Carter had been re-elected, he would have funded Amtrak to create a real system, but the Reaganites were oil and cars all the way, so they treated the rail system like an inmate in a prison camp, feeding it just enough money ($1 billion per year)) to keep it alive but not enough to keep it healthy. One billion seems like a huge subsidy, and in one sense it is, but it's peanuts compared to the average state highway budget.)

Unfortunately, administration after administration has believed the statement, "What's good for General Motors is good for America."

Meanwhile, in the late 1950s, early 1960s, Japan built its first Shinkansen high-speed rail line, ignoring the advice of international financiers, who told them that rail was obsolete and that they should build a multi-lane highway instead. They are still expanding their Shinkansen lines,extending them on the north and south ends, and expanding the subway system in Tokyo, adding two or three lines []per decade.

Not all developments in Japan are equally promising. Thanks to the lifting of trade restrictions, American-style big box stores with massive parking lots are springing up. Even so --guess which country will be better prepared when the oil runs out.

[VeniceBeat]

4. I Recently Heard Dukakis Speak

to the WestSide Democratic Club here in LA and a large part of his talk was about this problem. He said most Federal transportation money goes to building roads with maybe 2% for rail. (Think of how much rail could have been built with the money wasted on Boston's Big Dig--thanks Andrew Nazios).

Dukakis referred to the highspeed Japanese trains which have been around since THE EARLY 60'S and suggested that we put Americans back to work building highspeed rail. LA to SF in 2 hours (6 hour drive)! LA to Vegas in an hour!

[BradCKY]

5. I want rail as much as you.

I think MANY more cities should embrace MUCH more mass transit (light rail) than a bus. However I have heard some successful stories about hydrogen fuel cells and I believe that may be the answer. This will give in freedom of choice, you can drive a car or take mass transit, neither of which would use oil.

[NuttyFluffers]

7. want mass transit rail badly!!!

the biggest key about rail is that it saves space and encourages density. this saves environmental space, which can be used for a greater range of reasons instead of wasted on roads.

just looking at the cars on the freeway i see around 70% of the cars commuting here have 1 person per car. that's atrocious. that's a waste in space, gas, time, etc. wish there was a more efficient way? there is and it's rail. as much as i love the idea of fuel cell cars it isn't gonna save space like rail will.

imagine less parkinglots, more homes, less roads, more parks, less ugly asphalt and smog, more open spaces and higher home values. after being to europe, and enjoying a good motorcycle, i still have to say this issue is as good as solved. have rail for everyday commuting and the system we have now can stay as it is for the joy of riding. there is already a better way and we are just wasting precious time that's running out on us.

[TexasMexican]

8. No more Buses or Train...

they are terrirst targets after all.

Everyone has to buy a Car to fight terrorism.

[Muddleoftheroad]

9. How do you manage it?

I love mass transit. Was a big Metro fan when I lived in D.C. But lots of the Northeast and populated areas of the U.S. are pretty built up. So much so that building anything new is a problem. How do you get to build an entire mass transit system when people go to war over a new condo building?