CNN just helped me figure out why gas prices are so high

[maggrwaggr]

coming up next: "high oil prices. Can Alaska help?"

LIGHTBULB GOES OFF.

Oil prices are high, we are told, not due to lack of supply but due to a lack of refinining capability.

Hm, wonder why they might not be dealing with THAT.

Oh, of course, it's because they can charge higher prices, get everybody used to the fact that there isn't enough oil ....

and then ..........

tell everybody "hey look! There's a TON of oil right over here! Under this herd of Caribou! It's just sitting there waiting for us all to drill it!"

We really have to get the oil industry out of the White House.

Doesn't matter that they don't have the refining capability to refine that but I have a STRONG FEELING that refineries would be built pretty damn pronto as soon as they let them drill in the Arctic Refuge.

[tandot]

1. I wouldn't be surprised if the Bushies are behind those high oil prices

so we give in and let him drill in the Arctic Refuge. I completely agree with you.

Just wait a bit until the new Bush campaign ad comes out:

"John Kerry is against lower gas prices since he opposes drilling in ANWR"

[rumguy]

6. yep - sounds like a Bushite move to me...

[treepig]

8. a bigger problem than refinery capacity

is the decline of the us$ (so yes, the bushies are behind the rise in prices due to the huge deficit that's devaluing the $).

basically, if you look at the price of crude oil in terms of euro's or new zealand $'s (etc), it hasn't risen at all - it's only skyrocketing in terms of the devalued us$.

[DBoon]

20. So we need to fix the dollar problem, not any oil shortage

So this maybe has NOTHING to do with an oil shortage, and everything to do with a fiscally irresponsible administration

[fryguy]

12. And ANWR won't help us now

Since - putting aside all the environmental issues - it would take something like 7 years before the area will begin to yeild oil. Contrary to smirks* idea of oil exploration, one does not just sink a well into the earth and begin pumping unleaded....

[SoCalDem]

18. As soon as I heard him say.. "..if congress had passed MY energy bill..."

I knew.:cry:.. He must really think that he is not so sure about Nov, and he must ram through the "help the oil company & destroy the tundra" legislature..

So far he has accomplished most of what he was sent to do, and yet the "oil thing" had evaded him.. What better way to "encourage" the public, than to triple their commuting-to-work cost??

[demigoddess]

30. isn't this the same thing they said in CA when kenny-boy

gouged them on electricity prices. they took some generating plants offline(for maintenance) then said that was the reason the prices had to go higher. sounds similar to me

[alfredo]

34. Remember the fuel crisis in 2001? Prices went up in the midwest. they

claimed there was a shortage. Jeffords quit the GOP, giving the senate to the Dems. The Dems said they are going to investigate price gouging, and like magic, Saudi Arabia found the oil to ease our shortage, and prices started to drop immediately.

I think Saudi Arabia was in cahoots with bush back then and I think they are helping him and his friends this time by witholding oil.

they know ANWR won't do shit. They know it is just a gift for bush contributors.

[MasonJar]

2. Bush used the reserves when gas was reasonable; he began

to refill it when prices went up. This is just one more gift to the oil barons. Also since the OPEC uses the dollars, they are losing much of their profit because the dollar is so low. One of the main reasons the neo-cons went after Sadaam is that he was going to change to the Euro.

[LynzM]

19. the euro switch is an interesting point

Wasn't that supposed to happen right before something else big happened? Can't remember, vague thoughts of having read that... I know, helpful, right? Must suck to be those guys now wishing they'd been able to go through with the switch to the Euro!

[alfredo]

3. How long would it take to get the oil to market if they find oil?

Where will that north slope oil go? Will it go to the US or will it go to where they can make higher profit, Asia? Look at the ocean currents. They favor shipping to Asia.

How much money would it cost to ship a loaded tanker 1,000 miles against ocean currents as opposed to shipping a loaded tanker with the current?

Oil is risky. The only ones where profit is assured is the companies who build and service the oil fields. Halliburton is the biggest oil field service company in the world.

[bif]

10. We wouldn't see the first drop for 10 years. Better to explore alternative

sources of energy. But NO! This administration cut funds for that program. So we're even more dependent on foreign oil!

[maggrwaggr]

11. they don't care! All they want is permission to drill there!

what I'm saying is it's all a scam, like the "energy crisis" in California where they lights kept going out.

As soon as they signed the legislation to give billions off dollars to Enron, El Paso, Dynergy, etc., lo and behold there suddenly weren't any more energy shortages.

It's just another blackmail scheme.

Of COURSE they're gonna sell Alaska oil to Asia. They don't give a SHIT about supplying the US with Alaska oil, they never have and never will. All they want is to profit from it.

[alfredo]

33. I see you two know the score. Now make the argument to your local

newspapers.

[rumguy]

4. Unbelievable - so what was the segment like?

[treepig]

5. the lack of refining capacity is real

so why aren't more refineries being built? (multiple choice)

a) environment restrictions are too stringent

b) it's a conspiracy to keep prices high

c) there's no point building them because we're on the downside of peak oil, and in a few years there will be no crude oil to supply them

[maggrwaggr]

13. well gosh, I pick "b"

they learned a lot from the energy "crisis" in California. They're doing it on a national scale with gasoline now.

"Just let us into the Arctic Refuge, and everything will be peachy. You'll be able to fill up your Hummer for $50 instead of $60."

[slystone]

14. Boutique blends..

I live in Wisconsin and we use a blend of gas that is only used in three small areas of the country and only one refinery produces it. I say pick a single type of gas that is beneficial for all and have everyone make the same damn gas...

[treepig]

25. i have a hard time buying the "boutique blends" argument

for high gasoline prices.

the idea is that by serving a small, segmented market, there are certain times when supply dramatically outpaces demand, resulting in price spikes. what confuses me is why the reverse never occurs - i.e., why does supply never greatly outpace demand, resulting in price wars? wouldn't economics dictate such happenings, even if only occasionally?

[Viking12]

22. I pick option b....

Here's proof...

“As observed over the last few years and as projected well into the future, the most critical factor facing the refining industry on the West Coast is the surplus refining capacity, and the surplus gasoline production capacity. The same situation exists for the entire U.S. refining industry. Supply significantly exceeds demand year-round. This results in very poor refinery margins, and very poor refinery financial results. Significant events need to occur to assist in reducing supplies and/or increasing the demand for gasoline.”
Internal Texaco document, March 7, 1996

“A senior energy analyst at the recent API (American Petroleum Institute) convention warned that if the U.S. petroleum industry doesn’t reduce its refining capacity, it will never see any substantial increase in refining margins…However, refining utilization has been rising, sustaining high levels of operations, thereby keeping prices low.”
Internal Chevron document, November 30, 1995


http://wyden.senate.gov/leg_issues/reports/wyden_oil_report.pdf

[kanrok]

7. Let me guess....Clenis did it?

[KharmaTrain]

9. Oil Manipulation 'R GOOP

I smelt this coming months ago...

Oil prices rise...oh my goodness, we're all paying big time bucks cause oil is in such short supply (anyone stuck in a gas line or run into a station that's out of gas, yet???).

Now there's lots of reasons for high prices/short supply...all that oil in Alaska we're not putting in our SUVs and other gas hogs, regulations that change what type of gas can be sold from state to state (dereg) and special incentives to find even more oil! Ya know, if we don't have all those, and trust those sincere oil companies, we'll never have enough for our cars...oh perish the thought!!!

Now Dubya to the rescue. He's gonna wrestle Prince Pat Benetar of Saudi Arabia (thanks to Imus for that one) and all his other oil buddies and plead them to lower the prices. But before the relief, a little more profit and pain for middle America. Those prices will run up nicely through July 4th...and stay high all peak driving season, then drop dramatically in the fall as Boy Blunder comes to save the day.

These oxygen thieves don't think twice of destroying lives and the economy in their zeal for power and greed.

And for their hard-work, CNN gets another extra buy of "I'm Bunnypants Bush and I can't prononunce the disclaimer to this pack of lies"...

[fryguy]

15. It doesn't matter anyway....

...aren't we going to be saved by the iminent introduction and mass-production of the hydrogen car? Whoops - that's not the priority it seemed during the SOTU? Whoops again - smirk*'s plan calls for 90% of the hydrogen to be derived from fosil fuels anyway....doesn't seem to help our dependancy or the prices any.....

[tom_paine]

16. Wow, CNN is getting more Whorishly Soviet-ly obvious

I wouldn't have expected to see such an obvious, odious Pravda Job outside of the Party-Loyal Bushevik Sub-Media.

Although, I am starting to wonder if CNN is outside of the Party-Loyal Bushevik Sub-Media, at all.

[terisel]

17. Uh folks, a record number of refineries are being "repaired"

this winter and spring.

How many times are we going to fall for the oil scare ?

I believe Daschle stated this week or last that the US has 3% of the world's oil reserves. Let's save that Alaska stuff for a real emergency.

You will know when the oil companies believe there is no more affordable gas and oil lying around: geologists will be laid off in droves and demanding retraining, and the oil companies will be diversifying like crazy to get out of the business.

I haven't seen that happening.

You know oil companies get an oil depletion tax break on the questionable assumption that the poor things are stuck in an industry with a supply that is finite and running out......have you heard of a worker depletion allowance that gives us a tax break because we are all using up our youthful energy?

The task of the citizen-consumer is to say: ain't capitalism and the free enterprise system wonderful-as one industry dies out competitors spring up with new ideas and more efficient services. Progress is our most important Product.

[maggrwaggr]

24. yeah, just like the power plants that were being "repaired" in CA

during the "crisis"

Hm, let's see, who's gone to jail for that yet?

uh.... nobody. Even though they killed people.

[salib]

21. This was on Diane Rehm yesterday morning

The American Petroleum Institute rep was saying that the National Energy Policy bill that Bush and Repugs tried to pass last time around would go a long way toward improving the energy infrastructure, specifically refineries, pipelines, and "de-regulating" or "increasing the flexibility" in terms of types/grades of products that can be used in different locales. It was a fairly good piece on the issue of refining, oil supply and prices, and it will not have much effect on price "immediately." I was disappointed that the API rep was not challenged on the suggestion that we need "flexibility" in fuels. Sounded to me like, "let's burn dirtier fuel in places like California, even though it will produce more pollution."

[jpak]

23. Drill Alaska = Cheap Gas???? Guess again...

Oil is a globally traded commodity.

If crude oil is selling for $38 a barrel on the world market - what will be the price of Alaskan crude????

(clue: $38 a barrel)

Only a Republican Fool would believe that Alaskan oil will be sold at below market prices.

Furthermore...

At the peak of its production cycle, ANWR will produce 0.8 million barrels a day.

The US consumes 20 million barrels of oil a day.

Global oil consumption is ~75 million barrels a day.

How is 0.8 million barrels a day from ANWR supposed to influence the global price of oil????

(clue: it won't, but the repugs never let reality get in the way of their delusions)

[KharmaTrain]

26. You Know Those Rig Owners In Texas Are Crying...Right!

Thank you for spelling out this REAL big lie. The amount of oil in the ground and "extractable" has nothing to do with the price of oil. Use isn't so eratic that the amount needed to maintain a steady supply in the U.S. can't be calculated and levels maintained...but that wouldn't turn big profits.

Keeping supplies tight and the price high creates immediate wealth in the Texas oil belt and Alaska...a quick windfall based purely on numbers released in a Press Release by OPEC and nothing more. Now, not only is Haliburton making big profits from reselling oil to the Iraqis, but their wells in Texas that aren't producing a thing are worth more as well.

Lest we forget one more game going on...the oil markets. Right now the speculation in oil futures is going nuts. Summer and Fall delivery prices are going at record prices...as the gamblers are locking in their winnings for selling short this fall. And, of course, we're too stupid to realize or do anything about this.

[Viking12]

27. Even ShrubCo admits ANWR won't help

WASHINGTON - Opening an Alaska wildlife refuge to oil development would only slightly reduce America’s dependence on imports and would lower oil prices by less than 50 cents a barrel, according to an analysis released Tuesday by the Energy Department.


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4542853/

Here's the EIA report:

http://www.eia.doe.gov/oiaf/servicerpt/ogp/pdf/sroiaf(2004)04.pdf

On edit: added link to EIA

[Kazak]

28. The thought has crossed my mind...

wouldn't surprise me one bit!

[kerry-is-my-prez]

29. They REALLY want to drill in the Gulf of Mexico - off Florida

A lot more oil there.... They'd have too many Republicans on the war path if they did that (at least in sw Florida). SW Florida is a gravy train for Bush (political contrubutions) so he won't risk pissing them off.... at least until he's re-elected and until Jebbie is safely re-elected.

[hatrack]

31. Must drill in Alaska . . . must fill Hummer tank . . . growing sleepy . .

Because if we drill in Alaska, we'll have cheap gasoline forever and ever and ever . . .

I mean, DOE and USGS estimate that there's a 1 in 20 chance that the Refuge might hold as much as 55% of the Prudhoe Bay fields. Yeah, that'll really change some international oil price structures sometime around 2012 - NOT!

[camero]

32. It's cheating not competing :Enron again

http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0311-05.htm

Gasoline Prices: A Case of Cheating, Not Competing
Sound familiar? Think back to the electricity crisis

by Jamie Court and Tim Hamilton


If the recent sticker shock at the gasoline pump feels familiar, that's because it is the same old story that led California's electricity market to become the embarrassment of the nation.

California Atty. Gen. Bill Lockyer is convening today in Los Angeles a panel of industry experts who have blamed the run-up on OPEC crude oil prices, environmentally sensitive fuel and free-market pressures. But the problem is as simple as California's electricity crisis turned out to be: A few giant energy corporations have manipulated supply to keep profits high.


Similarly, California's special gasoline formulation — as required by the federal government under Clean Air rules — has been made to appear rare by the small number of refiners that make the special mix and have gradually closed refining plants.

The recent 20-cent-per-gallon increase in California — compared with just a 5-cent increase nationally — is the result of cheating rather than competing by seven refiners that control more than 99% of the state's gasoline supply


To put it simply, the gasoline suppliers are pretty much a monopoly. It doesn't matter how much oil they pump. Until the gasoline companies are broken up, they'll charge what they can get away with.