O'Franken is O'Rockin today.

[mzmolly]

I think he's becoming more comfortable and really coming into his own here? Anyone else tuned in? ;)

[SheepyMcSheepster]

1. i am listening via intenernet!

[tridim]

2. He's certainly developed his catchphrase...

"LIIIIIIIIIE!!!!"

I'm loving his show.

[mzmolly]

5. I like that too. "LIIIIIIIIIIEEEEEE!"

:P

[linazelle]

38. Tooo funny....I just cracked up at one of those outbusts...

:hi:

[Jacobin]

3. I'm curious

Has anyone heard from OhReally yet about O'Franken's name for his show.

I mean, i really like to watch OhReally when he loses it and the veins bulge out in his forehead.

Anyone seen or heard of a reaction yet?

[mzmolly]

8. I haven't watched OLielly recently. Would be fun to see...

;)

[Cat Atomic]

19. I heard O'Reilley yesterday.

He mentioned Air America, and his voice got more venomous and sneering than I've ever heard it. I'm serious- it was just weird.

He just kept saying, "liberal raaadio? WHOO would listen to LIIIBERAL RAAADIO? WHO?". The man is just imbalanced.

Anyway, I turned him off after 30 seconds of that crap. It's amazing how bad these guys are when you've got something good to compare them to. I'll never hear that creep's voice again.

[mouse7]

48. Micheal McKeon needs to play O'Really in the movie

"liberal raaadio? WHOO would listen to LIIIBERAL RAAADIO? WHO?"

come on... tell me you can't see McKeon saying that.

[SideshowScott]

91. HA I heard that too..Oh yeah and O'Reilly says hes not a Con

Buts hes reading from the same Memo that all the other Right Wing Talk show hosts are reading from. Oh that he says he does not read by the way.. ( He admitted that there was one..But he does not read from it..yeah Right Bill! )
Someone should tell bill that people are listening..Cuase im not listening to him anymore

[fairfaxvadem]

4. hey, i've got my volume all the way up and can hardly hear...

She sounds okay, but I can't hear Al hardly at all. Yesterday it was fine, any ideas??

[mzmolly]

6. I can hear him fine?

:shrug:

[supernova]

9. I have the same problem

are you listening through the aa website? I am. Maybe it's them and not the affiliates.

[mzmolly]

22. Im in Minnesota, and can hear just fine?

I'd call your local stations.

[RebelOne]

13. Same here.

My speakers are cranked to the max.

[demigoddess]

17. me too

Yesterday I had to adjust volume down and today I'm about to get out my headphones. Sounds like Al's microphone is maladjusted

[lancdem]

61. I'm experiencing the same problem

I have it on my computer, and it seemed clearer yesterday.

[Mixxster]

100. Hey, lancdem

Are you an F&M alum?

[supernova]

7. Talking about Barry Scheck

the lawyer who is getting all the innocent people off death row through DNA evidence.

[Gothic Sponge]

10. The Queen's drum solo!

LOL!

[mzmolly]

11. LOL

:hi:

[Fluffdaddy]

15. The Queen Rocks

:D

[GreenPartyVoter]

20. A "foot-man" Loved that line *l*

[americanstranger]

34. Hey! Name that tune!!

All you old hippie rock fans oughta know it.

-as

[Skittles]

39. remember he also assisted getting a guilty person off

OJ: I guess the price was right

[Cat Atomic]

12. Yep. I didn't care for his first show at all, but he's improved

by 500% in 3 days.

Great work, Al.

[Khephra]

14. I'm starting to think that Franken is on in the wrong time slot

He should be on late night imo.

[galadrium]

16. He still needs work

He needs to be more in-your-face like Rush and Hannity... just a suggestion... but he is still great.

[tridim]

21. Uhm, no..

He doesn't need to be like Rush and Hannity in any way.

[Gothic Sponge]

24. I don't want Al to be "in my face" like Rush and Hannity

I like his style. Randi fills that "in your face" roll just fine for the network.

[wryter2000]

25. I tend to agree

His Stuart Smalley niceness works well when he's in attack mode. It makes him look like the good guy as opposed to the L-I-I-I-I-A-R-S!

[chimpymustgo]

18. Help! Anybody have a liquid stream link? Can't get on AA site.

Or the local stations. I think I used a "liquid stream" link that someone posted Wednesday, but I can't find it now.

Can anybody help? Thanks!

[wryter2000]

26. Here you go

http://www.620knews.com/listen/index.php

[Skittles]

41. THANK YOU

I can hear it although I do wish it was louder - I've got the volume all the way up but it's still pretty low.

[chocolateeater]

27. Here you go.

http://www.620knews.com/listen/index.php :hi:

[mzmolly]

29. Not sure what liquid stream is but you can listen via internet hear?

http://www.airamericaradio.com/

[chimpymustgo]

36. I found it! "liquid viewer". Try this if the other links don't work.

http://cc.liquidviewer.com/radio/standard/radioplayer.php?UID=4

Thanks to all who offered links! I don't know why they didn't work for me, but I've got my link on now.

Yay!

[WarNoMore]

44. Thank you so much--

first day I could listen. Glory be!

[David__77]

23. He needs to enunciate better.

He slips into being to colloquial. He needs to "boom" a bit more. But he's improved somewhat. He needs to be more aware of his audience. He's doing better though.

[galadrium]

28. I agree

maybee he doesn't need to be more in-your-face... but he needs to be more forceful and powerful on the radio. Radio is a totally diferent medium than TV, or books.

[Oddman]

30. He'll be fine

It's a new forum for him and I think he is doing a great job. Katherine Lanpher is a pro and will help guide him.

"Say anything stupid and chimpy gets it!"

[GreenPartyVoter]

31. Bu$h not tough on terrorist marriage?

Paid for by the Committee for Distracting you from Real Issues?

*lol* TOO funny

[mzmolly]

33. Loved it... I think this is his best show yet.

He really seems to be enjoying himself. :)

[BattyDem]

35. Don't you just love....

the way Franken can make two points at once ... and slam Bush* on both of them!

Point 1: It's ridiculous to ban gay marriage
Point 2: Terrorists are the real problem, which Bushco is distracting us from by trying to ban gay marriage.

Slam dunk for Al! :D

[BattyDem]

32. Franken ad about Terrorist Marriage

"unlike gays, they can breed."
ROFLMAO!

Franken gets better every day :headbang:

[liberal72]

37. My God that remark about the bodies from Rush's show.

that was horrible.

[mzmolly]

40. I missed it. What was said?

:shrug:

[mac1000a]

49. It was fro Rush's replacement for the week

He said that he guessed was okay to to show the bodies of the Americans that were mutilated in Iraq because they were so so burned and mangled that the family members couldn't recognize them.

[wryter2000]

50. Welcome to DU, Mac

:hi:

[LiberalManiacfromOC]

42. I LOVE HIS SHOW!!!

luckily I'm sick today and get to stay home and listen to his show :D

[mzmolly]

43. Richard Clarke comin next!

;)

[Shoq]

45. Fears for the future of Air America

While I am as eager as most to see AirAmerica (AA) succeed, I am absolutely astounded about people's assessment of Al Franken's performance, thus far.

I have always liked Al, and his books have been important and entertaining. But as a Radio talk show host, he not only leaves a LOT to be desired, but I fear his remaining too long will drag the entire effort into oblivion. As anyone that saw him on Nightline -- who is reasonably objective can attest -- he was only marginally articulate, mumbled to the point of tedium, and seems to generally annoy almost everyone that I have spoken to (on a personal level). He comes off as smug, bitter, somewhat rude, condescending, and has a generally tone that will surely fuel the liberal bashers for years to come. If he is seen as the "voice" of the left, we will rue the day we ever got vocal chords.

It's almost like we on the left are afraid to admit reality, because we want this (and him) to succeed. But let's face it, the entire idea of AA is to make left-leaning talk radio into a somewhat entertaining venue so that the ideas and opinions actually get HEARD above the din of the right which dominates our airwaves. If it can't do that, the whole exercise is a like most blogging; verbal masturbation that few will take seriously or care about. Virtually everyone I know that loves AA, is already tuning him out, and grousing about how entirely ineffectual and dull he is as a host. He's not particularly insightful, rarely funny, and the whole O'Reilly bashing schtick was tiresome after 5 minutes--and caused more than a little discomfit. Now it's almost self-mocking parody that makes the entire AA network look like Al's private exercise in ego gratification. Surf around. Ask around. The right (and the all-important swing-middle) is laughing it's butt off and I don't blame them. If this is the best we can come up with for a talk show host, our ability to lead the country in these mass-media dominated times is seriously in doubt.

Despite this almost self-evident dreariness, as I surf around the web, I see generally praise for Al. There's a disconnect going on here somewhere, and it greatly worries me. If we can't be honest about what we are seeing and hearing in public--even about our heroes--we are in some deep doo. It reminds me of the Democratic party in general. In private, most feel that Daschle, Pelosi, Kennedy and most of the leadership (with the possible exception of Joe Biden) are tired, ineffectual, and entirely lacking in imagination , depth, or verbal potency. Their words and manner sink like stones beneath the waves of rhetoric flooding our culture from the far right. And, I fear, John Kerry is even worse. His oration makes Al Gore seem almost exciting. Ok, so discussion of real issues is dull. We all know that. But the whole idea of AA is to blend real issues into an entertaining package that builds an audience and competes with the 1000+ radio stations blaring out the far-right agenda on a daily basis. If the goal of AA is to make liberals feel good, they've succeeded already. If the goal is to make a difference, they are already in trouble.

Initially, the choice of Janine worried me too, as she is another walking testament to almost every right-winger's portrayal of a Hollywood liberal "elite." And it doesn't help that she's flashing her "Liberal" shoulder tattoo on Nightline. This kind of image just serves to alienate the moderates in the middle that we desperately need to take back this country. But compared to Al, she has been dynamite. She and Randy are carrying the entire network right now, in my opinion. Without them, I'd be tuned into Soundprint, listening to the sound of killer whales mating off Oahu. Randy is the Rushesque attack dog, and that's important, but her delivery is fueling the ditto's stereotype that "liberals are just so angry." Yes, we are angry, but we're not raving lunatics out to insult for sport, or partake of their passion for completely eviscerating civil discourse in this country. The Nader episode was entertaining, to be sure, but over the top. Randy wasn't wrong, but it doesn't help the cause to be seen as a bunch of angry lefties ranting up the airwaves--especially at each other.

When I first heard about AA, I imagined a vibrant format where the legions of entertaining writers, comics and celebrities on the left would be rotated in and out on a daily basis; where editorial pieces from big names, as well as maybe writers from the Onion, the Daily Show, SNL, Mad TV and the late night circuit would be sprinkled throughout the format all day long. A venue designed for attacking the funny bone AND the thoughtful bone of the electorate; a venue where SmokingGun-type truth squad reporting were daily features; a marketplace of ideas and muckraking where exposing the LIES of the right was as entertaining as it was important. Instead, I see rather drab talk show format with seriously miscast players, an almost criminally naive view of what the general public finds compelling, and a near-total lack of imagination, as well as genuine humor. I am simply stunned that such a savvy entrepreneur like Mark Walsh would preside over a product launch this lackluster.

Even so, I support it completely, and listen almost 24x7 (when my net connection doesn't fail). But I'm hard-core. It's the REST of the world I want to tune in. I like Al Franken. I respect Al Franken. I want to take him to lunch. I just don't want to listen to his monotone delivery each day, when the sound of mating whales seems a reasonable alternative. And I don't think I'm alone. I would love to be proved wrong, and I wish him and AA well, but as of now, I am greatly concerned that this effort will founder unless the AA people find a way to serve some sizzle on this steak, or at least get rid of the chopped liver.

This county is in civil war right now. A war without bloodshed (yet). But we aren't going to win it with efforts this lacking in focus, imagination, and production values that can't equal or surpass the money-making machinery of the right which rules talk radio because it strives to entertain first and inform second (however poorly). If you really think the latter can succeed in this era, I suggest you raise some money from your uncle Harry and relaunch the Mario Cuomo show.

I wish I could send this to Mark personally, but as yet, there seems to be no AA forum, or any other feedback mechanism. I'm hoping this post reaches him. I doubt it will.

Onward.

[BigMcLargehuge]

46. just a little astroturf for Friday morning

:eyes:

[Shoq]

52. Typical

"Astroturfing?" Because I say something less than glowing about a show we all want to succeed, so I must be astroturfing?

That's precisely my fear. We on the left are so in love with our self- righteous postures that we can't even see how middle-america sees us.

They accuse of us ad hominem assault and being "illogical." And the best you can come up with is a lame accusation that I must be a plant for the enemy. You couldn't be more wrong. I am probably more militantly to the left than you, or 99% of this site. I am simply fed up with the ineffectual posturing that leads to defeat after defeat in election after election.

This is a war. It won't be won by congratulating ourselves for our "wonderful," response (as boasted on AA's splash page). It might be, if we finally take this fight to the streets, if not metaphorically, than literally. But that's hard to do when people are content to sit back and be smugly self-satisfied because a radio station with 4 (small) outlets, an underpowered server, and the production value of a bad public access cable show claims to represent us. If we're really this dull, I think I'll go over to Phyllis Schafley's house and watch reruns of Kathrine Kuhlman's "I believe in Miracles."

I expected to get a lot of flame. I didn't expect a flicker of fantasy posing as insider insight.

Regards

[BigMcLargehuge]

58. and you criticise AA on, what... 72 hours of life under their belt

and are ready to pronounce them dead, buried... I take it you've never been involved with radio other than tuning in the local talk stations. But I've worked in them both as a music DJ and talk host. It's no easy feat to get started, let alone start off successfully.

But hey, it's your first post at DU... Nothing says "Hi I'd like to participate in your forum" like criticising the brand new radio network taking liberal issues to the masses.

So, take your uninformed analysis, whining, protestations of victimhood, and complaints, along with your eloquently written article that I've seen in various forms in different parts of the web and in news papers since Wednesday, and stick them, sideways, up your ass.

Regards.

P.S. If I don't see you again, have fun on boot hill.

[Shoq]

67. Oh please

You are like a recruiting poster for the dittos that claim progressives are irrational, angry, and hopelessly unrealistic about everything.

I am NOT ready to pronounce it dead. I am merely commenting on what is out there RIGHT NOW. Franken has been in comedy for 30 years. If he can't be entertaining or compelling in 48 hours, he's not going to be.

Thus far, he's a two-trick pony. Bush is bad. O'Reilly is an idiot. Wow, I didn't know that!

As for my essay being all over the web, I'd like to you to submit such links, so I might read of views similar to mine. Perhaps it might lead to actual discussion of the POV, instead of a self gratifying flame.

As for my being a first poster, that's true, under this name. Under others, not so. And it's irrelevant anyway. A point of view should not be measured by how popular he is at the country club. That's GOP bullchit, and a big reason why so many serious people detest web forums and blogs. While a good site, DU has 41,000 registered members since 2001. If AA attracts those kinds of numbers, I'll see you on boot hill and buy you a beer.

I want to change the world. Not talk about changing the world. If you wish to attack me, instead of the POV, you are more than welcome to continue. But if discussion counts here, then please STFU and let someone else take a few shots. You're shooting blanks.

[SemperEadem]

72. oh, you're here to whine and play the victim

and make this all about you.

I think we have a blankey around here somewhere...

[mzmolly]

73. Why post under another name?

Just curious?

[BigMcLargehuge]

77. links, you want links? I got links.

Same old same old. Why don't you give AA time to mature? Nah, that would be tooo hard. It's waaaay easier to lament that the show isn't as Rush-like as you apparently think it needs to be.

Some of us actually appreciate well informed and detailed discussion of the issues. If all you want it ranting, hell, why bother listening to anything BUT Rush Limbaugh?

That's where you're more at home, right? Unless you're one of those self-fellating nuts from that "other website" who just can't seem to stay away from DU. Is that why you're using a sock puppet?

In any case, here's your links.

http://209.157.64.200/focus/f-news/1104690/posts

<snip>

But it takes more than talent – it requires an audience interested in listening to arguments that depend, at least in part, on logic and fact. And that's the Achilles' heel of "Air America," the new liberal network that Franken anchors. The modern Democratic Party is supported by interest groups that align themselves in large part because of power, money and fear – not deep-seated beliefs. These folks aren't going to tune in for re-education on why they ought to believe in an agenda. They expect payoffs, and don't need to be tutored on the niceties of debate.

Sure, there are true believers in the agenda of the left. These are the folks who make Michael Moore a best-selling author, and Franken a celebrity in the first place. But their proportion of the radio population is miniscule, and already attached to NPR.

<snip>

http://www.ajc.com/news/content/news/0304/31airamerica.html

<snip>

Eric Seidel, former station manager for WGST, the Atlanta home for Limbaugh, didn't hear Franken today -- not surprising since the show's not carried locally, except for XM Satellite Radio and the streaming web broadcast that listeners complained was slow.
 
But he doubted the viability of the network, since it seemed more bent on changing the political philosophies of listeners instead of establishing a product that would enrich and entertain.

<snip>

http://jusiper.blogspot.com/ 

<snip>


Here's the sad early verdict on Air America: Not once has any of its hosts let loose with the kind of impassioned, savage, funny, seemingly casual but majestically knowledgeable rip at the people who are driving the United States off a cliff that Howard Stern belches out every half hour or so these days.

Al Franken had a couple of vacationing septuagenarians on yesterday to announce that liberals love America. Gee, thanks. He put G. Gordon Liddy and Ben Stein on the air without making any attempt either to make fun of them or to force them to be funny. Worst of all, he featured Michael Moore as a guest and let him stumble around in search of Al Gore's ass to kiss.

"We're really sorry, Al," Moore said, bringing to mind Tonto's immortal question – "What do you mean, 'We,' white man?" Then he rambled on about how he hadn't campaigned for Ralph Nader in any swing states in 2000. Guess that absolves him, huh? I thought it was extremely funny, though I have no idea if anyone else did, when Gore let Moore finish and then asked him, "What are you saying?" But whether Al Franken wants to mirror right-wing tactics, help John Kerry get elected or just produce good radio, he should be ripping, not promoting, the likes of Michael Moore.

[Shoq]

84. Thanks for the snips

<<But it takes more than talent – it requires an audience interested in listening to arguments that depend, at least in part, on logic and fact.>>

Well, that's clearly that drudge, Cal Thomas, or one of his stooges. As for the rest, thanks. Good snips. They aren't wrong, and that's largely my point. Those kinds of views will get wide exposure on blogs and sites with far bigger audiences than DU.

AA has already squandered its launch, and its nightline promo. I was watching online with about 50 progressives. The consensus was "they need someone with polish taking the point."

As for being associated with some other site, I won't indulge such clubby nonsense. If you want to be paranoid, start a Richard Scaife hate group and have some real fun. I haven't posted here, because nothing much motivated me to. I've generally avoided it because of threads like this one began as. But what compelled me was the frequent mentions on AA. I assumed that just maybe the AA people stopped in here on occasion. I hope they do.

[ParanoidPat]

51. HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!

Whatever dude! :evilgrin:

[mouse7]

55. Air America is doing well, in spite of your "fears"

The numbers suggest that the Air America website is starting out at least briefly as one of the most popular websites on the net. Not Rush popular. Bank of America popular. Top 50 websites on the net popular. I have no doubts that Air America will get a huge audience, despite anxious, panicked reactions from other progressives. We know that no progressive can attempt to do anything without at least 20-30 progressives attempting to tackle them to stop them.

[Shoq]

60. I'm not panicked, or trying to stop them

Just the opposite. I'm quite calmly looking at the presentation, and not fooled by novelty hits on the web (which the advertisers they NEED have marginal interest in). And half that net traffic is probably republican listeners tuning in to harvest fodder for the right radio audience. Do you actually LISTEN to the enemy? I do. And right now, they're having a field day with this.

I don't just opine. I speak to people all over the spectrum and if you do the same, you will find that MOST progressives feel that Franken is a complete bore. A bore with the right views, sure.. but a bore nonetheless. The previous poster made a good point. It's radio, not TV. You have to GRAB the listener, who is usually doing other things. Franken's delivery actually drives the listener to do something else. Randi brings them back. Bill Mahr would bring them back. Hell, Dan Schorr would bring them back. Al Franken is a stone around this effort's neck.

After the novelty wears off, those web hits will nose dive. And even if they don't, unless there's some serious interest by the middle in this country, the whole venture isn't going to persuade anyone about anything. But sure, it makes me feel good too. Whoopee.

[mzmolly]

63. "A bore"

:eyes:

I disagree. I enjoy his show a great deal. It's highly informative and entertaining.

[Shoq]

74. Accepted

And that's fine. I enjoy elements of it too, of course. But I also like foreign films with subtitles. Unfortunately, most of America responds to something a bit more titilating.

I LOVE the guests, and the discussion. If you read my initial post, I think Janine and Randi are great. My complaint isn't that the franken show won't appeal to we, the faithful. It's that it won't be much more than a novelty for the mainstream, and worse, he'll be seen as a token figurehead of the network, and it's easiest target. Remember, this aint' NPR. They aren't going to survive on diverted milk money from federal largess and some pennies from Pew.

They are going to need a mass audience or the whole venture will fold before you can say "ratings count."

[mzmolly]

95. When you say things like "we the faithful" I doubt your intent.

;)

[Kool Kitty]

97. A bit more titillating, hmmmm.

I personally think that you can't get better than guests like Richard Clarke, Paul Krugman, etc. on any show on one day. I thought yesterday was good, today was better. You are entitled to your own opinion, of course, but I think making blanket statements are wrong. If you don't like it, fine, that is your right. But you can't speak for anyone but yourself. You don't know how many were in the audience, you don't know what they thought. You only know what you thought.

[SemperEadem]

78. nice try

your gripe is like cursing a newborn baby because it can't recite War and Peace, or it can't get up and run a mile in under one minute 2 days after being born.

[Shoq]

88. Point taken .. but

<<your gripe is like cursing a newborn baby because it can't recite War and Peace, or it can't get up and run a mile in under one minute 2 days after being born. >>

I have made that argument among the dittos for days. But that doesn't mean I fully believe it.

I have watched hundreds of "newborn" efforts come forward in my lifetime, and those that looked like they would never walk, never did. This is too important to wait around for the kid to fall on its face. Because if it does, you will NEVER see another expensive effort to create liberal talk radio in your lifetime. Never. And we NEED ONE, desperately. And if this fails, it will be sudden, and they won't give a damn what the folks on DU have to say about it. They will be like the Baltimore Colts slipping out the back door in the middle of the night. "Gosh, sorry.. but you know, we just cant lose money like that and stay in business."

And I can hear the cacophony on the left already, crying about how it's a shame that anything good has to be commercial. Yes, it is too bad. But that's part of the PROBLEM. Our entire system has become dysfunctional due to a disproportionate emphasis on commerce, personal gain, and endemic GREED throughout the culture.

And in that climate, the Republicans and their religious right puppet masters exploit our inability to do anything well. Until Move-On came along, there was not a single meaningful force that could orchestrate a BIG MESSAGE from the left in this country. And that has to counter a $2 million a week media machine run by the GOP when NOT in election mode. Ever notice that the minute ANY story breaks, the ENTIRE GOP and all their mouthpieces speak with one voice, and one message? THAT's why they succeed. Not because their message is very good, but because their messengers are unified, dedicated and EVERYWHERE. And they are armed with well written talking points, Astroturf, late night comedy material fodder, and an Internet propaganda machine that make Goebbels and Hitler look like amateurs when it comes to mass manipulation with the big lie.


And what does the left have? Move-on. A great organization, already associated with the far left (by a well orchestrated GOP campaign to paint them that way), and thus, already relegated to the fringe in the minds of most moderate Americans stuck in the ideological middle. The all important middle. The middle that will WIN elections. The middle which the GOP has become most adroit at leveraging as needed with whatever spin will work.

Look at the past 2 weeks. They were able to completely neutralize Dick Clark by sheer force of numbers. They were all over it in a matter of hours. The media has become rather simple to play, and they play them very well. After all that dirt, Bush's poll numbers WENT UP!

To you, AA might be a pretty little child who MIGHT grow up to be somebody. TO me, it's a vitally needed genius that could save the world--or at least our country-but which is already at risk of being still born.

We can't afford to have it fail. "Griping" about it's failings early on, might have a far more important impact than joining the melody sung by a chorus of those who WISH it well. I am among them, to be sure, and have been since the concept first surfaced. I simply want the music to be a LOT better, a lot louder, and a see a lot more people swaying to it.

<<Right now, Randi is doing her pit-pull from Brooklyn routine. I love that passion. We need a LOT more of it.>>

[mzmolly]

93. You love Randi's passion, but hate her *clap* track remember?

Each host has something *different* to offer.

As I said before, I enjoy Al's show. I suspect many others do as well. If you are not entertained/informed/moved by listening to him - dont.

[Nostradammit]

62. O'Reilly, is that you?

aren't you just the ray of hope and optimism we on the left need?

[mzmolly]

64. SHHHHHAAAADDDDD-UUUUPPPPP!

:P

[Shoq]

79. Yes another thoughtful response

I had some hope this site was able to pony up something a bit better than I might find on a Rush board--or America On Slime. I shall try hard to not assume you represent the majority here.

[mzmolly]

96. LOL. I don't spend time on Rush boards.... YOU?

The Shaaaddduuuuuppp, comment is a joke concerning Bill O'Reilly, did I offend?

Edited to add: You'll note my response wasn't directed at you, it was an *inside* joke for us "faithful progressives" that some just may not get. :hi:

[Kool Kitty]

98. And, sadly, I would think you would be a bit more

open-minded. I'm glad you don't seem to represent the majority here. And why would you bother with the Rush boards?

[Shoq]

75. Actually, I could be

You see, if you actually read my words, instead of condescend from on-high, you will see that there is nothing inherently negative in what I am saying. We ARE a mass media culture, and whether you choose to delude yourself otherwise, this is commercial venture. And there, republican rules rule. No matter what anyone says about it being a vanity effort by liberals, it's a business. And if it loses too much money, it will be a dead business. But even it does, that would be fine, if it generates excitement and brings some of the middle back into the progressive fold. As it stands now, I'd wager it will drive away as many as it attracts. Where is it written that being a progressive means you have to be smug, dull, and largely humorless? That's the message this network is giving off right now. It is my sincerest hope that it succeed. I just dont think it will by assuming it should because we WANT it to.

[SmokeyBlues]

86. LOL!

Ahhh, the smell of fear in the mid-afternoon! Don't you just love it?!

By the way, I heard the exact same reptilian 'talking points' all day yesterday on television. But thanks for coming to DU to enlighten the uninformed anyway. LOL!

[Shoq]

89. The talking points WORK!

<<Ahhh, the smell of fear in the mid-afternoon! Don't you just love it?! >>

It's amazing. Is there any limit to this paranoid stupidity? Just because I say some things obvious to most anyone listening, I MUST be ONE OF THEM. The only thing I smell is .. well. never mind.

<<By the way, I heard the exact same reptilian 'talking points' all day yesterday on television. But thanks for coming to DU to enlighten the uninformed anyway. LOL!>>

And what talking points is DU assembling to counter them?

None. You're too busy feeling good about feeling better, because you have a radio station, and attacking one of your own merely for having a point of view inconsistent with yours. And you can't do it by taking issue with my words. You have to demonize me as some stealth agent from Tom Delay or Brent Bozo's office, or perhaps some shill from another website.

Do you realize how much you play to GOP stereotype of liberals? You not only have to appear to be right, you have to wax superior as you do, making it seem that your opinion is the only one that counts. That is precisely how the Rush's and Hannity's whittle away at the middle class in this country every day. They keep hammering home a simple messsage that often plays to people's fears of being overtalked, humiliated, or somehow devalued, simply because they aren't among "the elites."

But no, you have to posture that you're so informed, and merely because SOME of what I am saying necessarily overlaps with the GOP stooge critics, it's dismissed as enemy propaganda. It's so predictable. And this pointless incestuous bashing just fuels their machine. They are out marching door to door, grabbing the faithful by the ears, preparing to lead them them to voting machines, explaining that the big bad "liberal media" and that Al Franken guy are out to turn their backyards into landing pads for the UN's black helicopters.
While you slash and burn at me, they have TEN THOUSAND precinct captains preparing to win an election with overwhelming force (kerry has a few hundred, at last count I heard).

While they are implementing that strategy forcefully, and effectively, you are wasting keystrokes sniping at someone on your side. The left needs a message. You and many can help carry it forward. But you can't do that if all you're capable of doing is sniping at people whose point of view diverges from yours in tactics, if not goals. I know their "reptilian" points far better than most, and probably you too. I don't see those points discussing what AA needs to do to succeeed. Only why they are certain it will fail, using well crafted (if not written) barbs designed to penetrate the thin density of the average American's bullshit filter. And if this kind of dialog is the best the AA audience can muster, then it probably will fail, and THEY will win again.

They have already polluted the media with those talking points, quite successfully. Because THEY work together. Sometimes I am convinced the left is virutally incapable of doing that, for precisely the reasons these threads illuminate well.

Even now, I listen to Randi whine about Republicans. And of course, she's right. But have I heard a single constructive call to action, or talking point designed to be repeated by a typical listener? Nope. I am hearing Phil Donahue in 2002, saying things that need to be said, and which will ultimately have as much staying power as his latest effort.

I not only loathe your purveyors of reptilian talking points, I battle the slimy bastards every day. And I intend to make the battle far more literal over time. But it's very dispiriting to see this level of discussion by hand grenade, on a site that is supposed to represent a vanguard of people above all that. I remain hopeful that there's better discussion ahead.

[Kool Kitty]

101. And you are aware, I'm sure, that the reason

Phil Donahue was cancelled was because MSNBC didn't feel that they could have someone in their line-up that was anti-war. His show was not cancelled because of ratings. But, then, you knew that, right?

[sadiesworld]

103. "Even now, I listen to Randi whine about Republicans..."

Who has the fork?

[Kool Kitty]

99. I wouldn't throw the word "condescend" around too much,

if I were you. You seem to be the one guilty of condescension. What you are giving us is your opinion, right? Then how do you know that so many other people feel the way you do?
The only ones that believe that republican rules rule just happen to be republicans. The ones that think that this is a vanity effort by liberals are republicans.
And give it more than one or two days. After all, Rush wasn't built in a day, was he?

[proud patriot]

47. This is truly an awesome show

Enjoying Clarke's interview immensely

[NightTrain]

53. Didja catch his interview with Senator Joseph Biden?

It kicked ass!

[Shoq]

56. Biden SHOULD be the candidate

But he lacked the balls to run. He's one of the only democrats who ever actually says something meaningful--and well.

I fear Kerry is another Dukakis waiting to happen. I'm just waiting for the tank commander's hat.

The very fact that he gave Rove and Matalin that "before i voted against it" clip, is a testament to how vulnerable he is/we are. A few more like that, and it's game over.

[ieoeja]

54. I think he sucks.

He is very monotone. I have been listening to him for the past half hour while perusing DU and when I hit this thread it occurred to me that I could not give you a single quote from Franken in the last half hour. So I decided to pay attention for a sec. And what does he do? He says "that reminded me of a line by Steve Martin where he'd say 'I forgot' all the time".

Franken was a standup comedian? Does he have no idea how to deliver a line? All you did was speak it.

This isn't television. The vast majority of the radio audience is doing something else while the radio blares in the background. If you want them to hear you, you have to MAKE them hear you.

At least AA has Randi.

[Q]

57. Hayzeus...what is this...the Randi vs. the Franken fans?

- Let them do their work and have fun with it.

[mzmolly]

65. As you can see you are in the minority here.

;)

[Shoq]

69. Yes, and?

Progressives are in a minority in our government too. Does that make us irrelevant?

[mzmolly]

71. "us"

Are you speaking for ALL progressives now?

Do you know that MANY progressives actually like Al Franken. I happen to know of several personally.

Regarding this statement:

"Progressives are in a minority in our government too. Does that make us irrelevant?"

You are irrelevant when one is discussing ratings in radio/TV. If the a minority of people don't like a show, it won't have an impact on the ratings. That is the bottom line. If lots of people tune in and enjoy it, it will do well - even with out *you*.

[Shoq]

81. Uh huh

Sure. It's going to do just fine because you say so.

In the past 3 hours, I have heard from 4 friends who are arguably about the most liberal people I know.

Their reaction ranged from bemused, to put-off. Perhaps I know different progressives than you do, though.

I listen, and will continue to listen, and support AA. That's not the point. I support NPR too. So what? Is that going to keep the GOP from banishing them to the ash heap of history along with most other left-leaning institutions?

I'm sick and tired of all the high minded idealism on the left. Why the hell do you think we're LOSING this war. Because people on the (vocal) left are mostly part of the system, and making a lot of money from it (as Nader rightly points out), and are barely a few compass points off the GOP's agenda on any given day. So much of the rest are content to hand-wring often, and wax superior about their positions. This is a WAR, not a cocktail party. Randi is a warrior. Janine is a battle axe. Al Franken is a nice, grandfatherly guy with a wry wit and righteous point of view who will appeal to 20% of the faithful, and 2% of everyone else.

As my mother said, "he makes me pine for Alistair Cooke's delivery."
Sorry, but we need a bit more than dead brits with a flair for dry wit.

[mzmolly]

83. "I'm sick and tired of all the high minded idealism on the left."

I would have to agree with this statement :hi:

Franken is ONE of several radio personalities on Air America. I like him, you don't.

Perhaps your "friends" are just more progressive then mine :eyes:

However, as I pointed out, what you or I think is not going to be relevant to the shows success.

It's the overall opinion of the majority of people that counts. And, it looks like you are (right now) in the minority.

[Shoq]

85. Success, as measured by what?

Your opinion?

A streaming media site that fails with 1000 concurrent users? The measure of success will be when COMMERICIAL stations line up to carry AA. Until then, I'll be content to see it get critical acclaim, or a BIG audience of the faithful. I think Randi and Janine are the right direction. I think Al should be relegated to Andy Rooney status and do 15 minutes of commentary at the end of a show people want to listen to.

I just called a few of my friends to see if they were listening. Nope. They're listening to NPR at work, or to nothing.

Does that represent the masses? No. But it's as good an indication as yours right now.

As I write this, I am listening to Randi's clap track. That might play in Florida. It's going to get very old nationally, very fast. She's far too good to need gimmicks like that. But gee, I guess that's another thread I can't start, as I don't have enough posts yet. Ah, perchance to dream.

[mzmolly]

92. "Success, as measured by what? Your opinion"

Oh my this is rich.

You are the one who seems *riled* about the fact that others dont agree with you.

I enjoy Al's show and plan to tune in tomorrow. Call your friends, tell them it's on. It's much like NPR, with a twist of humor and a bit of *liberal anger* sprinkled in. ;)

[Jack_Dawson]

90. I agree

He stumbles over his words and doesn't seem sure of himself.

[Cush]

59. Paul Krugman is up

[mzmolly]

66. Today he had Clarke/Krugman/Biden and G G Liddy on...

and some claim they are "bored" :eyes:

Granted Liddy has different views, but the line up each day has been amazing.

[Shoq]

68. No question.. the line-up is fine

I have no complaints about the guestlist. And that's carrying his show, thus far. But he's just not offering much beyond them.

Even Chris Matthews, that whore, would have made those guests actually say something compelling and memorable. All I heard was the same thing I read in their ususal venues. Ho Hum.

[mzmolly]

70. Well there is a simple solution ... turn off the radio

:hi:

[SemperEadem]

76. NO kidding!!!

If it bothers you that badly, turn off the radio. No one is forcing you to listen to it.

The majority of us here support AA and are willing to let it work out its kinks during the FIRST DAYS OF IT BEING ON THE AIR. We have the adult and mature capacity to allow this to settle into its groove before casting aspersions on it.

Some people just can't be pleased by anything. There is always a complaint about SOMETHING.

[Shoq]

80. Media succeeds or fails in DAYS

You think this is some philanthropic effort?

Of course it's new. Of course it needs time. But if the effort isn't well grounded from the start, it can falter so fast, you'll be left saying "but i LIKKKKKKKKKKED IT." As the bush administration and Tom Delay proves every day, what you LIKE doesn't count for squat. There is a real world, and AA should be dealing with it.

I have sent mailings to 45,000 people promoting AA? What have YOU done to promote it?

Don't confuse criticism with negativity. They aren't the same.

[revcarol]

82. Welcome to DU, a belated one, especially

since I have seen your enlightened commentary on about 3 sites so far.

Enjoy your stay here.And don't listen if you don't like it.

[Shoq]

87. Ummm

<<since I have seen your enlightened commentary on about 3 sites so far.>>

I presume you meant "like mine?"


<<Enjoy your stay here.>>
Thank you. I'd like to think tolerance of an unpopular opinion still has a place on the left, these days. It was once a hallmark of liberal society.

<<And don't listen if you don't like it.>>
I do like it. I just don't like it a lot (yet). And if a few hundred thousand people like me who WANT to like it a lot, but don't, make themselves heard, just maybe it can become something we do like. If we all congratulate ourselves for finally having one small radio show, thats' what we'll wind up with: one small radio show. I want to see a worldwide network. Something George Soros throws 100 million at to broadcast all over the world in 100 languages. A CNN of the left--everywhere. A true liberal radio network. I fear that if the Al Franken show remains the "big draw," it's going to be little more than a fantasy which I've had for more than a decade.

Franken has already made the very choice of his show's name "the big topic" at most water coolers. And you know what that did? Promoted O'Reilly. It didn't come off as funny. It came off as petulant and small. Intellectually-enabled liberals are supposed to be above such catty sniping. It was a bad decision on the network's part, in my opinion, and I just hope it's not a reflection on all the other decision making going on at AA.

[thebigidea]

94. above such catty sniping? And your impassioned pleas are what?

oh yeah, catty sniping.

[Kool Kitty]

102. "Compelling and memorable".

Ah, yes-like the time Mr. Liddy and Mr. Matthews were discussing the *ahem* sizable physical attributes of W in the flight suit? Memorable, no doubt about it.