Iran/Reagan/Hostages: Help needed

[derby378]

Currently in debate with a FReeper-style guy over whether there was a deal struck between Iran and the Reagan campaign to keep the embassy hostages in Iran until Carter was thrown out of office. Any good, solid leads?

[Robb]

1. Good timetable here:

http://www.quickchange.com/reagan/1987.html

[sangh0]

2. You're going about it the wrong way

You should make the Freeper prpove everything he says, while making sure that you hit him with as many points as possible. You are letting him bog you down and get defensive, instead of offensive.

Tell him to read Kerry's Iran-Contra report, and then move back onto slamming Repukes. Don't forget to remind the Freeper about how Reagan retreated from Beirut after the terrorists killed 241 Marines by truckbombing their barracks in Beirut.

[tjwash]

7. Yeah, then he immediately...

...proceeded to invade Grenada to distract everyone from his HUGE screwup in Beirut. Of course you are not "wagging the dog" unless you have a "D" after your last name.

[BOSSHOG]

3. KICK HIS ASS

Fuck that providing proof. Look him in the eye, poke him in the chest, kick him in the ass. He provides the proof that reagan was the sweetheart he is suggesting or he loses the fucking debate. Piss on this being nice bullshit. Lets get them on the run and keep them on the run.

[stopthegop]

4. investigated by a Dem congress..

no evidence found...like it or not...reality sometimes has to intrude on people's (not referring to you) lives...

[lutherj]

5. I don't think it's ever been proven

Obviously if this were proven there would have been lawsuits and criminal investigations.

http://www.winterboy.com/dejavu12.html

"George H.W allegedly flies to the Middle East to arrange what will later be called the ‘October Surprise,’ attempting a block of Carter’s efforts to free the US hostages in Iran before the coming election. More than a score of witnesses- including senior Iranian officials, top French intelligence officers, Israeli intelligence operatives and even PLO chief Yasir Arafat- have confirmed GOP-Iranian contacts at this time"

[sam sarrha]

6. Three is very good documentary out about it,,,

the Panama invasion was because the guns and land mines bought with the millions of dollars from the sale of stinger missiles as part of that deal bought from East Germany going to the Contra TERRORIST'S.. were discovered in a ship and held by Noriaga... we stopped a scandal and put Calli cartel people as president and head of government.. Cocaine exports went up 500% in the next 6 months...

just go type in "Iran Contra" hit search...

[Minstrel Boy]

8. Good resource here

from respected investigative journalist Robert Parry. An archive of his October Surprise articles:

http://www.consortiumnews.com/archive/xfile.html

[swinney]

9. October Surprise book

October Surprise--by Gary Sick-- Time books--1991

Authoritative--Sick served on National Security Council under Ford,Carter and Reagan.

He was principal White House aide on Iran during the hostage crisis of 1979-1981.

He confirms there was a deal and G Bush was involved.

His writings were accepted as fact except by Reaganuts.

There was a Deal. No question. Reagan supplied arms to "evil" empire and it was sort of hush up payment.

Tell your friend to read the book.

[stopthegop]

10. there's no question...but there's also no evidence

it happened...Iran/Contra is one thing...October surprise is another..Carter lost...people should deal with it

[Minstrel Boy]

11. But there is evidence.

Much evidence. And quite a body count, too.

For instance, ever heard of Paul Wilcher?

On or about May 21, 1993, Washington attorney Paul Wilcher went to the Department of Justice and hand delivered a letter claiming holdover DOJ employees from the Reagan-Bush era were responsible for a number of government cover ups, unbeknownst to the Attorney General and President Clinton. The 100 page letter was addressed to Janet Reno. On or about June 11, Wilcher was interviewed regarding the contents of the letter. Later, after days of not hearing from him, worried friends contacted the police, who went to Wilcher’s apartment on June 23. His decomposing body was found propped on a toilet.

From Wilcher's letter to Janet Reno:

I have laid out at length and in specific detail what occurred on George Bush’s secret trip to Paris, France, on the weekend of October 18th and 19th, 1980, as well as the broader historical context in which that trip occurred, in my Final Letter to Congressman Lee Hamilton, dated May 20th, 1992, which is attached as an exhibit below.

My client here is Gunther Karl Russbacher, a life-long covert operative for the CIA and the Office of Naval Intelligence (“ONI) who has operated at the highest levels of both of these super-secret organizations over the past 30 and 25 years, respectively.

Because of his extremely high intelligence, his exceptional physical skills, his extensive training, his fluency in 8 languages, his proficiency as one of the CIA’s top pilots and marksmen, and the fact that his father was one of the original founders (along with William Casey, “Wild Bill” Donovan, and others) of the Central Intelligence Agency, back in 1947, Gunther has always operated at the highest levels of these “intelligence” organizations, and has been entrusted with carrying out some of their most difficult, sensitive, and top secret covert operations.
http://www.thepacc.org/Wilcher2.htm

[stopthegop]

12. do you think the Dem lead congress during the 80's

covered it up? or were they just incompetent?

[Minstrel Boy]

13. Good old Lee Hamilton led the inquiry.

Cover up. Yes.

"Hamilton held a press conference to clear Bush before the investigation into the deal between the Reagan-Bush candidates for presidential office and the Iranians, had even started. Hamilton then admitted he had not interrogated witnesses or talked with his special attorney hired to Investigate the matter."
http://rumormillnews.com/MCCLENDON_OCT_SUPRISE_GKR_CASOLERO.HTML

[stopthegop]

14. OK...have a good afternoon

[sangh0]

15. Nice

you ask for evidence, and when it's produced, you take off without comment.

[JHB]

16. The line at the time was...

..."The country can't take another failed presidency".