When did the opposition become the enemy?

[holeinboatoutatsea]

There is a difference, we all know.

The opposition was something to argue with, disagree with, and at times detest, but was not something to hate with a passion.

The times, they are not a'changin'

The times have changed.

While we believed all would be okay, that surely nothing would ever happen to destroy this constitutional country, the other side spent 25 years causing it to happen.

We now live in perilous times. Not necessarily for ourselves, but definitely for our children.

What will our children say to us, assuming we are still around and not hauled off to some re-education center surrounded with barbed wire for our own good?

Will they spout the unintelligible words of the propagandized brainwashed?

Will they fight and win, or will they fight and lose?

It's up to us.

Are republicans the opposition or the enemy?

They chose the definition, and it is up to all who value the values of this country to fight back - NOW.

Not tomorrow. Not in November (because it's bound to be a sham election). NOW.

In any way you can.

Do not remain silent against the creeping oppression.

Speak to your neighbors. Your co-workers.

Please.

They see us as the enemy to be taken down without mercy.

We must take them down with our thoughts, words, works, and our constitution. While it is still there.

[Redleg]

1. They became the enemy when they declared they wanted to destroy

the Democratic party. Their's is the language of war, battle, strife, destruction, and annihilation.

[punpirate]

2. It began with...

... Richard Nixon's 1972 "win at all costs" campaign, and with the Powell Manifesto, written during the run-up to the `72 election campaign. The right has been playing electoral pile-on ever since.

Cheers.

[Dookus]

3. Nothing new here...

this has been happening throughout the history of our republic.

People seem to think that there used to be some "golden age" of politics where people discussed nothing but issues and shook hands afterward. That is false.

Politics in the USA has ALWAYS been a gutter fight. In fact, it's arguably a lot better today than in the past.

[holeinboatoutatsea]

5. That is not true

before, there were well defined platforms that politicians followed after nomination and election.

Now, words are merely methods to subdue and comatize before the true actions are revealed. There is a huge difference between the politics that existed in '64 and now. There is also a huge difference in the degree of education the average American receives. There is also a huge difference in the amount of voting age people that vote. There is too much tv, there is too much media consolidation, and there is way too much apathy. People care more about whether a dwarf is going to marry a midget than whether or not their internet habits are going to be tracked by the FBI.

The gutters used to be much more defined and at times shallower. To say the political atmosphere now is arguably better now is to have no sense of history.

[Dookus]

9. it is exactly my sense of history

that tells me that things are not worse today than in the past.

Political campaigns of the 19th century would even shame today's Republicans.

[holeinboatoutatsea]

13. but that's what I'm trying to get across

we have no connection to the poor industrial slaves of the early 20th century. This country, by following it's constitutional directives, achieved that which no other ever had.

Sure, life is better now than then. That doesn't mean much. We have technologically surpassed the need for people to experience starvation. We haven't yet politically achieved that, though we have come damn close. Now, we are going backwards.

I don't want to be a peasant. I don't want my kid to have a shitty education that teaches creationism as a viable alternative.

[Dookus]

14. I'm not talking about standards of living

I'm talking about politics.

It was a vicious blood sport for the entire history of the republic. It simply is not worse today than in the past.

[holeinboatoutatsea]

20. Politics is all about standards of living

it's all about pollution, clean air and water, and how people without "representation" should be treated.

This admin?

throw away education.

It is worse today than it has been since the 50's. If you don't see that, then I believe you have not been educated.

[Dookus]

21. LOL

I disagree with your premise, and that means I'm uneducated?

That's just idiotic, and furthermore, you can't seem to discuss a single issue. You're jumping all over the place.

I'll happily argue a variety of topics with you and let others judge who's more educated.

[holeinboatoutatsea]

23. I am staying with a single theme

and you seem to be confused.

I'm not looking for a variety store conversation, nor am I going to discuss further anything with anyone that exclaims:

That's just idiotic

I also don't look for judges to determine who is more educated in a message board.

also, I am more than tired of seeing people incapable of discussion typing "LOL"

lol to you, my friend! I mean no harm or disrespect. I am certain we will both live another day to argue the merits of something.

[Dookus]

25. I AM discussing

and you HAVE made me laugh out loud.

I'm simply discussing the original argument you made: that somehow our political discourse is worse than ever in the past, and is an immediate threat to the republic.

I disagree with that premise. I, and others, have presented examples indicating why your premise is wrong. What's wrong with having that discussion? Why insult my education or my intelligence, rather than argue the points we make?

And I don't know where you got your education, but when I went to school, not every sentence warranted its own paragraph.

[wuushew]

12. The founding father's were just as bad

Read anything by traitorous man Thomas Jefferson on the job performance of his "friend" George Washington. The Election of 1796 is well known for its viciousness. Aron Burr and Alexander Hamilton's enmity ended in death. While we lament the plight of poor Bill Clinton the smear campaign by Bush archetype John. Q. Adams literally killed Andrew Jackson's wife.

[holeinboatoutatsea]

16. I disagree with that, as well

Sure, Thomas Jefferson took his ideas from Locke, but so what. They were great ideas. Where does traitorous enter the picture?

Again, we don't live in the 1800's. We have supposedly entered a time when enmity does not end in death.

I don't think of Clinton as having to feel as though he was in need of others to lament his predicament.

Are you missing the point of this thread and just trying to inject some superficial knowledge of history to prove a point that has no meaning?

[Dookus]

19. hrmm...

"interjecting superficial knowledge of history to prove a point that has no meaning"?

To me that means someone is disagreeing with your premise. I disagree with your premise, as does at least one other poster.

You can call it what you want, but next time, if you only want people who accept your premise and agree with your conclusions to post in your threads, you should specify so at the outset.

[JaySherman]

10. Except this is far worse than any gutter fight.

The Repugs have declared all out war on liberals and stated their intention is to crush us. Grover Norquist has come out and said they want a one-party government. Yes, politics in the USA has always been a gutter fight, but to say it's a lot better today than in the past is very very arguable.

[Dookus]

11. LOL

so what? Grover Norquist is ONE man who doesn't hold any elected office.

Do you think there weren't any people who wanted to do away with the Republican party during the Civil War? Do you think FDR didn't have enemies who wanted to destroy the Democratic Party? Do you think John Adams, Thomas Jefferson, and Alexander Hamilton didn't have enemies who wanted to bury everything they stood for?

Do you think the newspapers of the time weren't outrageously partisan, and printed every possible lie imaginable?

Seriously - read some books on the time period. It was vicious.

[JaySherman]

22. LOL?

Same as it ever was?

Never said the press in the past hasn't been vicious. But I'm sure as hell glad Hamilton, Jefferson, and company didn't have that attitude.

As far as Norquist being ONE MAN. It's all about POWER and who holds it. I'm not saying Norquist is the originator of this whole power grab by the right, but the man and his fellow Republicans currently wield enough power that we have every reason to take what they say seriously.

Else we can sit back and enjoy the glorious return to the Gilded Age? Or the Depression? Take your pick, and enjoy.

As for me, I'll pass.

[JaySherman]

4. This might be useful:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1233453#1234349

I e-mailed a copy to everyone I know yesterday. I suspect I may well lose a couple friends over it, but to hell with them. I have no intention of sitting back and watching us lose our democracy. I'm going to do everything I can. If it costs me the friendship of a few people with their heads too far up their asses to see what's really happening, then so be it.

[holeinboatoutatsea]

8. thanks for posting that!

We are not alone!

[KG]

6. when they stole an election, and crowed about it.

absolute power is the RWers goal.

[Crachet2004]

7. They have always been willing to do anything for power.

But came a corker for me, when the SUPREME COURT, stepped into the Florida election. That showed me the entire system was rotten.

And nobody did, or said, a damn thing.

No wonder they think they can get away with anything...they can!

But if they steal this next one, I think there will be hell to pay.

[Career Prole]

15. I'm more comfortable with it being antagonistic.

Joe Conason's right. You lose respect by sitting back and taking it. I've been turning the other cheek since Chappaquiddick and I've gotta say that when they called us traitors for speaking out against this fool's war I ran out of cheeks. As for my children...last March I was driving my daughter to school, and we were talking about the standardized tests coming up. She stated her preference for reading over math. I told her I had always preferred math. "Yuck!" she said. "How come?"
I told her I felt that way because the answers in math are definite. One correct possibility, not subject to interpretation. She looked puzzled, so I tried to come up with an explanation she could understand.
"Suppose," I asked, "Mrs. Reynolds asks you what is 5 times 7?"
"35!", she answered. "Yup! You bet...and there's no other choice."
"But what happens if Mrs. Reynolds asks what was the main cause of the Civil War?" I asked.
She thought but a second or two, pumped her little fist, laughed, and yelled "Because Bush said so!" :D
Teach your children well. I've no doubt you'll see her right here in a few years, because I'll bring her here myself. My little radical!

[rucky]

17. It's those damn Whigs! nt.

[holeinboatoutatsea]

18. didn't those whig crossdressers

turn into repubs?

the pic is misleading

[Media_Lies_Daily]

24. I think some clarification is in order on this particular issue...

IMHO, not all Republicans should be lumped in with the NeoCons, and not all Democrats are our friends.

What we're really facing is a small well-coordinated, well-funded rightwing Fascist organization that took control of the United States beginning with the Coup of December 2000. Through a constant flow of propaganda, they convinced most Americans that Osama Bin Laden and Al Qaeda were to blame for 911. They followed that up by ramming the Patriot Act, unread by all but Senator Byrd, through Congress. Then came the attack on Afghanistan, followed soon after by the assault on Iraq. I have yet to be convinced by anyone that Al Qaeda was to blame for 911, and that Iraq was somehow linked to Al Qaeda. Thousands of human beings have died to fuel the quest of the NeoCon Junta for control of the world's oil.

Most normal Republicans went along with the flow because they were either eager to be on the winning side for the first time in eight years, and/or they were intimidated into playing follow the Fuhrer.

Some very conservative Democrats also went along with the flow and allowed themselves to believe that the Little Banty Rooster was actually doing his best in his self-declared "War on Terror".

And so now we...Democrats, normal Republicans, and all other political entities excluding the NeoCons...find ourselves with a failing economy, two ongoing wars in the Middle East with no end in sight, rising unemployment, record numbers of bankruptcies/foreclosures, skyrocketing National as well as personal debt, lots of questions concerning what really happened on 911, and the looming spector of the return of the military draft in mid-2005.

[holeinboatoutatsea]

26. I agree with what you say, but

if true conservatives actually held any beliefs to heart, they would not have sold their souls to the neodevils.

A true conservative believes in small government, no deficits, staying out of foreign entanglements........