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Is Howard Dean Electable?

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David Zephyr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-03 09:08 PM
Original message
Is Howard Dean Electable?
Edited on Sat Aug-02-03 09:09 PM by David Zephyr
Answer: Yes.

The question that other Democratic Presidential Candidates and their staffs keep posing is: Is Howard Dean electable?

Well, their question is turned on them immediately, isn't it?

If those who already had long-time national name recognition, long time political I.O.U.'s, and favor with the National Party can not beat Howard Dean, who has come out of essentially nowhere in no time, then it is they who are not electable.

If you want a winner, then back a winner.

If the other candidates are faltering and sliding continually in the polls as is the evidence, perhaps the question should be posed about themselves. If they are running such poor campaigns already, do you really want to get behind such a candidate in a General Election?

Howard Dean is already winning. Dean is already a winner.







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Clete Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-03 09:10 PM
Response to Original message
1. Yes, he is.
The WH apparently is starting to wake up to this too.
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Ellen Forradalom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-03 09:11 PM
Response to Original message
2. I'll wait and see.
I like Dean too, but I'll see how events unfold. There's always a flash-in-the-pan in the primaries--think John McCain or Bill Bradley.
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Davis_X_Machina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-03 09:17 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Bradley was more of a didn't-flash, no? n/t
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caledesi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-03 09:50 PM
Response to Reply #2
12. John McCain should have thought ahead about what those
thugs were going to do in SC...smearing the hell out of him and his family. He should have spoken up. Dean knows how these thugs play the game and he will be ready. Bring it on!

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Pallas180 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-03 09:17 PM
Response to Original message
3. but the centrist democrats like Evan Bayh constantly badmouthing
him are ruining his chances and the confidence of
dems in Dean.

damn stupid democrats dont know enough to launder their
dirty laundry in private.

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w13rd0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-03 09:25 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. Evan Bayh does not serve my interests...
...nor does the DLC. If they spent more time fighting for workers, small business, rather than big corporate donations, they might represent something other than their own small circle of 'elite's...
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Upfront Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-03 09:51 PM
Response to Reply #6
13. Well Said
DLC makes me sick. They are bought already. Republican lite all the way.
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CWebster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-03 09:23 PM
Response to Original message
5. Just by saying that
You are bound to piss someone off.

;-)
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Jacobin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-03 09:27 PM
Response to Original message
7. Was George W. Bush* Electable?
Gimme a fricking break!!!

By the time 2004 rolls around, the Iraqi quagmire will be impossible to ignore. Dean will be the only one (my apologies to Kucinich who will probably have dropped out by then) whose views on Iraq will seem to have been prescient..


He will call Smirk on his bullshit, and won' lick his butt.

I think it will be very appealing to a lot of voters to have a CHOICE.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-03 09:27 PM
Response to Original message
8. Please.....no more is ",,,,,,,,,," electable threads! For anyone.
It is a bunch of spin right now, no matter who they are talking about.

It is way too early, and it is just plain too tiring to come here and see on thread after the other.

Today someone even posted to me that since I had the word Mad as part of my name....I was probably a Dean supporter.

That was silly, and it is making this board look foolish.

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Kazak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-03 09:31 PM
Response to Original message
9. Obviously...
Anyone who poses this question is obviously afraid that he may in fact be electable...
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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-03 09:48 PM
Response to Original message
10. "electability" is code for fundraising ability
Kucinich hasn't been able to fundraise.
Kerry has to go to DLC big corporations for his funds.
Dean out raised both of them in Q2 and is the only candidate *gaining* support.


Dean Raises $7.5 Million in Second Quarter
In the second quarter ending yesterday, 59,000 Americans donated an average of $112 to help boost Governor Howard Dean to the top of the second quarter fundraisers with a total of $7.5 million raised.

Unlike the small, exclusive multi-million dollar fundraisers held in major cities by President Bush over the last week, the Dean campaign saw its numbers surge based on small donations over the Internetwith nearly $3 million raised online in the last week alone. In the second quarter, 45,030 people donated online a total of 51,474 times. The average donation online was $74.14.

When we said last week during the governors announcement that You have the power, we had no idea just how much power our supporters had, said Campaign Manager Joe Trippi. They are people participating directly in their democracy, and doing whatever they can to help us take our country backgiving $20, $30, or $50. This is People-Powered Howard.

Second quarter fundraising by the numbers:

Total raised in second quarter: $7,500,000 Total donors (2003 to date): 70,000
Average contribution: $112

First time donors in second quarter: 48,000

Levels of Internet Giving:
Less than $50: 18,422
$50 -- 99: 11,579
$100 -- $249: 11,436
$250 -- $499: 2,379
$500 -- $1,000: 368
$1,000 and up: 129
http://blog.deanforamerica.com/archives/000584.html
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caledesi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-03 09:49 PM
Response to Original message
11. Howard Dead is running a brilliant, novel campaign..
and Joe Trippi is great. This team keeps coming up with novel ideas to raise $. The latest, I thought, was great - Challenge Cheney...Cheney took in $300,000 from some GD dinner and ol' HD sits at home and watches the "bat"....$504,000.. He beat up Cheney Big Time!

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incontrovertible Donating Member (643 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-03 09:56 PM
Response to Original message
14. WELL put
Dean's running ads AGAINST BUSH in Austin starting monday, and this is a masterstroke - without even the first caucus being polled, Dean's acting like the nominee.

The rest of the field is flatly unelectable, if for no other reason than they lack that sort of balls.
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Larkspur Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-03 10:34 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. The rest of the Dem field suffers sclerosis of the imagination
Imagination and courage are the hallmarks of the Dean Campaign.

Trippi is definitely having a field day with this campaign. It's like when an experienced but down-on-his-luck horse trainer comes across an unknown race horse who eventually becomes a legend.
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Le Taz Hot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-03 09:59 AM
Response to Reply #14
36. He's what?????
ROFLMAO! Talkin' about going into the lion's den! And just when the Killer D's are making headlines. God, I LOVE this campaign! OK, as a Californian I take back all the bad things I've ever said about Texas (the California/Texas "rivalry" goes back a long time). ;-)
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Bombtrack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-03 10:03 PM
Response to Original message
15. No he isn't
Your argument is rediculous

so because a sizable chunk of the anti-war anti-bush movement was latched onto by his campaign, it means according to you, that he could get 270 electoral votes and 50 million + votes

this ranks among the dumbest emptiest assertions I've seen here, not that it's the first time I've seen the exact same nonsense worded differently
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Eloriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-03 11:54 PM
Response to Reply #15
30. Your premise is wrong, so it's no surprise your conclusion is too
Yep, he got anti-war support, but that is by NO means the bulk of his support. He's the only one already bringing in NEW voters, and people from across the political spectrum.

Proof:
BRAND New Democrats for Dean
http://brandnewdemocrats.blogspot.com

Independents for Dean
http://deanindependents.org /

Republicans for Dean
http://republicansfordean.blogspot.com /

Looks to me like it's your assertion, based on mostly nothing but also an untrue statement, which is the one that's the "dumbest and emptiest."

Eloriel
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Bombtrack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-03 05:37 AM
Response to Reply #30
34. anybody can start a website
and it seems Dean has a crapload of techies who love nothing better than to defend and promote him in anyway they can think of,

which includes starting new websites and calling them whatever you want

how do you know that he's the only one bringing in new voters? You have no way of knowing so why don't you admit that. Anyone who is supporting Dean at this point would not come close to supporting Bush.

You haven't told me his main attracter besides being anti-war, although you continue to say that's not even one of the top things

Is it that active, mobilized special education movement? That seems to be real popular among the angry white yales
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-03 10:04 PM
Response to Original message
16. Any Democratic nominee is electable.
Because Bush* will not serve another term.
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jagguy Donating Member (525 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-03 10:20 PM
Response to Original message
17. today, yes. When the weather truns cool, I don't think so.
His juggernaut is already cooling off and he'll become stale when the punpkins start appearing in people's homes.

Edwards will have a head of steam and will do a blitzkrieg thru the primaries and cauci.
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w13rd0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-03 11:26 PM
Response to Reply #17
22. Gee, I think I've got a link...
...to a post with almost the same wording from about 3 months ago, and another from a few months before that. I guess you should keep your fingers crossed, and keep clicking those heels together.
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jagguy Donating Member (525 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-03 11:34 PM
Response to Reply #22
26. and I'll bet they all addressed timing
and it still pertains.

I'm glad Dean got out there or there would likely be NO visibility for any dem candidates. But realistically summer numbers have never meant much in terms of what ultimately goes down.

And who knows, maybe he still has a few cards up his sleeve.

Time will tell.
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Eloriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-03 11:57 PM
Response to Reply #26
31. These summer numbers are very different from any others in history
http://www.sunspot.net/bal-te.campaign01aug01,0,5889923...
PORTSMOUTH, N.H. - The Portsmouth Herald published a front-page picture the other day of Howard Dean, his shirt sleeves rolled to the elbows as usual, delivering one of his red-faced campaign speeches with the harbor in the background. The accompanying article said he had attracted an audience his staff estimated at 650 people.

To veterans of the New Hampshire presidential primary wars, that was obviously a stretch - 650 at a rally in July?

But an inside page of the paper carried a photograph taken from above that showed the crowd was indeed 650 people, give or take a few dozen.

What this suggests to those involved in the contest for the 2004 Democratic presidential nomination is, first, that the process may be more advanced than usual and, second, that Dean, the obscure former governor of Vermont, is lighting a fire in the electorate.

And that is news. A hot candidate can draw that sort of turnout here in the last week or two before the primary but not, as in this case, six months ahead.

snip

At this point in 1991, he notes, then-Gov. Bill Clinton of Arkansas hadn't even made a final commitment to compete.

more

Read it and weep. :evilgrin:

Eloriel
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pansypoo53219 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-03 10:42 PM
Response to Original message
19. WAS
GEORGE W FUCKIN BUSH ELECTABLE????
the votes said NO!
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Composed Thinker Donating Member (874 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-03 10:45 PM
Response to Original message
20. A lot of people think he's unelectable
Why do you think differently?
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w13rd0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-03 11:23 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. Why do they think he is unelectable?
Their reasons for thinking that keep changing. Although they always do fall back on his being against the pre-emptive invasion built on lies, but he's proven more right on that one by the day. What those who DO say that have in common though is they feed heavily from the corporate trough, and the Dean campaign, in regards to fundraising, threatens to seriously impede their ability to get fat kickbacks with only a lil quid pro quo to a ceo. They don't want him to be elected, so they say he is unelectable. It'll be a fascinating primary to be sure.
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Composed Thinker Donating Member (874 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-03 11:28 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. Well, I think some are severely underestimating his chances
He's certainly far from a sure thing, but who is a sure thing these days?

Some of the reasons given are as follows: he's pro civil union, he's for national health care, and he's for repealing the tax cuts. And as you mentioned, there's the whole issue of him being very anti-war. Isn't it the current situation could be a whole lot better in a few months, essentially screwing Dean over in that regard?
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frustrated_lefty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-03 11:38 PM
Response to Reply #20
27. My impression is
Dean draws a lot of support from people who have traditionally been disenchanted with politics in America.

I strongly get the feeling he's attempting to convince people their voice counts, and he is a person who will at least try to listen. That's a powerful message, and is a sharp contrast to ShrubCo.

A lot of folks are saying he peaked too early. I'm not sure about that. Several co-workers have recently said things to the effect of "who's this Dean guy?" I think he's gaining recognition and motivating a sizeable chunk of the disenfranchised and makes for a powerful candidate.
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Pepperbelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-03 11:27 PM
Response to Original message
23. yes ALTHOUGH ...
he may well be peaking far too early. The closest election is still 5 or 6 months away...

If he is the real deal, he will continue to build. Or, he may peak too early and fall by the wayside. Time will tell.
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maggrwaggr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-03 12:32 AM
Response to Reply #23
32. What's this nonsense about "peaking"?
Don't you want to take the lead?

I'm amazed how negative people are about Dean. It just proves to me that people truly have been beaten down to the point where they don't believe in democracy anymore.

Wake up, we can make it happen. If we fail, whose fault is it? Ours.

We CAN take our country back.
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Pepperbelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-03 09:54 AM
Response to Reply #32
35. Nonsense?
Electoral momentum is as real as houses and just as measurable. Many candidates have peaked too early and fizzled out altogether. My caveat was that unless he is the real deal, he is peaking far too early. Massive electoral momentum has built-in limitations based on something as basic as base politics. Only X is possible. There is nothing that can be done to move beyond X. If one rises to X early on, the only place to go is down.

What is so difficult about this concept to understand?
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not systems Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-03 11:32 PM
Response to Original message
25. he is a winner
I believe this.

He has a appeal that will cut support out from
the Bush war party.

He will continue to take the fight to Bush
where it belongs.

Dean 2004

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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-03 11:43 PM
Response to Original message
28. I'd really rather have the primaries and the election decide that.
I'm funny that way.
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NastyRiffraff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-03 11:50 PM
Response to Original message
29. the question is ridiculous...
They asked the very same thing about Bill Clinton (remember him...the 2-term President, who could be elected TODAY if he could run?)

Sure, he's electable, if the campaign keeps up the brilliance. Pushing it in Bush's face EARLY is important. The campaign must keep it up.

Man, it creams my jeans to envision a debate between Dean and Bush! Please, God, let it happen!
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ScreamingMeemie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-03 12:35 AM
Response to Original message
33. Consider for a moment, my husband...
Overtime worker, father of two, pro choice, pro gun...voila, a perfect candidate. Or as perfect as you can get. I look to my husband for a lot of information on what the non partisan voters think of candidates and issues. Usually it works.

Dean in 2004
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