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sidwill Donating Member (975 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-27-04 06:19 PM
Original message
Why "The Passion" helps us.....
Christianity as esposed by Christ has always been, at its core, about Love, Tolerance, and forgiveness.

Christianity in America 2004 is more about Judging, Condeming and INtolerance.


THe Passion reminds Christians about what Christ was really all about: love.

As they spiked him to the cross he still loved and forgave them, as they cut him he still loved and forgave them, as they raised the vinegar to his lips they still loved and forgave them.

Christ was the FIRST liberal, the first progressive, the first to lead through NON_VIOLENCE.

If American Christians can use this movie to regain some hold on what Christ was really about they will turn their backs on the REpublican War machine.


Think about it, and please add your thoughts.
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meti57b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-27-04 06:25 PM
Response to Original message
1. Jesus wasn't a Christian. He was a Jew. Everything he did, he did as a Jew
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coloradodem2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-27-04 06:27 PM
Response to Original message
2. Interesting.
I have not seen The Passion. But people need to be told that George W. Bush is not a speaker for Jesus Christ.
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rockymountaindem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-27-04 06:28 PM
Response to Original message
3. Moses never hurt anybody either. He was nonviolent too.
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plumbnsquare Donating Member (40 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-27-04 07:04 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Moses
Wrong. He killed an Egyptian. Then he fled Egypt.
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rockymountaindem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-27-04 07:41 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. Oh yeah. I forgot. Thanks for reminding me.
However, the person he killed was beating a helpless slave to death, wasn't he? Sounds like it was justified.

Welcome to DU!
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VOX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-27-04 07:12 PM
Response to Original message
5. What you say is true. Unfortunately, we live in another dark ages...
When the peacemaking and love-thy-neighbor teachings of Christianity are lost and/or perverted.

Today, fundamentalist Christianity (like all fundamentalist religions) is used as a weapon. It espouses hatred, anger, divisiveness, and the demonization of gays and minorities.

It is deeply rooted in reactionary conservatism and desires that its exclusionary theology be intertwined with government.

I wish I could find the silver lining in this, sidwill, but bitter experience has made more than a doubting Thomas of me.
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plumbnsquare Donating Member (40 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-27-04 07:15 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Which is why
one must follow the leader, not the sheep!
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BigDaddyLove Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-27-04 07:47 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. Who's the leader?
?
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-27-04 07:44 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. So every time you hear some one in raptures over "The Passion"
you make sure to bring up His very socialist teachings. ;) Granted you aren't reaching as many folks at a time as Mel, but you are reaching _someone_.

Besides, Jesus' own attempt to reach folks was a grassroots effort. ;)

http://www.geocities.com/greenpartyvoter/liberalchristi...
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magnolia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-27-04 07:48 PM
Response to Original message
10. I agree with you.....
Edited on Fri Feb-27-04 07:53 PM by magnolia
I saw the movie today. The Jesus from my childhood Sunday School...and the Jesus in the movie today would not have said..."gays can't marry...because I said so!"

Seriously...I can't imagine how anyone watching the movie could think that Jesus is GWB's role model.
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plumbnsquare Donating Member (40 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-27-04 07:50 PM
Response to Original message
11. Christ's teachings
"Christ was the FIRST liberal, the first progressive, the first to lead through NON_VIOLENCE."

Christ said "Do not think I have come to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword." (Matt. 10:34) A sword divides, and following Christ necessarily divides the Christian from the world.

As for non-violence, I agree that Christ was not violent. However, he did tell his own disciples to bring a sword with them, presumably for self defense. And he did not condemn the soldiers he met for being soldiers.

I think we must be very careful not to read into Christ's teachings that which we think supports our political views, which I see people of ALL political persuasions frequently doing. He didn't come to form a political party. That was not his purpose. And while many people claim to admire his teachings, they're not willing to follow him. They will take the parts they like and dispense with those that don't fit their agenda, political and otherwise. I'm not saying this is true of you, but I tire of hearing people prattle on about Jesus' teachings about love, forgiveness, tolerance, and then turn right around and disobey his commandments. If we really believe Jesus message about love, then we must ask ourselves first, "Do I love Christ?" He said "If you love me you will keep my commandments....." That's the proof.

Finally, Jesus commanded his followers to love their enemies, not "tolerate" them. Love is a higher virtue. It is more difficult than simply "tolerating" someone. I'd rather be loved. I think the word "tolerance" means different things to different people. Some think it means we must accept every belief and every behavior. I don't. We must accept people, but we don't have to agree with their views.
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stopbush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-27-04 07:52 PM
Response to Original message
12. Love, tolerance and forgiveness..in the Bible
Edited on Fri Feb-27-04 08:02 PM by stopbush
Oops. The God of the Bible HATES certain people:

Proverbs 6:16
These six things does the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:
6:17
A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,
6:18
An heart that devises wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,
6:19
A false witness that speaks lies, and he that sows discord among brethren.

(What, no homosexuality on the list of the seven abominations? H--m-m)

Oops. Jesus' love extends only to them who are "with him." How bushian!

Luke 11:23
He that is not with me is against me: and he that gathers not with me scatters.

Mark 16:16
He that believes and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believes not shall be damned.

Oops. If you're to follow and love Jesus, you better start by hating your own family...not to mention yourself:

Luke 14:26
"If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple."

Oops. Unless you're a Xtian, you're damned! No matter how wonderful you are as a person or how scrupulously you follow your non-Xtain religion, yer goin' straight to hell!!

Acts 4:12
Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

Oops. I guess Jesus is a divider, not a uniter...at least when it comes to family values:

Matthew 10:34
Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

10:35
For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

10:36
And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.

10:37
He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.


So much love...so little time to cast most of humanity into hell.
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-27-04 07:55 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Hence the reason I am a liberal Christian
Edited on Fri Feb-27-04 08:01 PM by GreenPartyVoter
We're allowed to believe there are errors in the Bible. We're also allowed to think things over and see if they make sense, and to interpret them according to our understanding of the world.

http://www.geocities.com/greenpartyvoter/liberalchristi...

Wisdom handed down from James Gertmenian by a wonderful family friend:

"Take into consideration these things:

scripture,

tradition,

reason (including the history of thought and science),

experience including the findings of depth psychology).

If all four do not agree, liberal theology goes with three against one (even if it is scripture). You will need to weigh such a proposition for yourself.

Indeed, that is what liberal theology entails, making a thoughtful
informed decision for oneself in all honesty before God and other human beings."

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stopbush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-27-04 08:12 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. I'd agree. The two glaring errors I find for myself are
1) that Jesus ever existed as a historical, living, breathing human being,

and

2) the Bible is the revealed word of God.

I do, however, believe the Bible's assertions that bats are birds (not mammals), that rabbits chew their cud (like cattle) and that a city called Nazareth existed back then (even though the historic record disputes that in no uncertain terms).

I guess the "liberal Christian" mindset works for me!
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megatherium Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-27-04 09:24 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. I'll grant you #2 but
I think it's fair to say Jesus did exist. The early Christian churches certainly already existed by the 60s (when the first Christians martyrs died when Nero was emperor). The earliest books in the New Testament were the letters written by Paul to these Churches, before then (late 40s - early 50s). Jesus died circa 28 or 30 of the common era -- not very long before.

Of course, the belief that the Bible is inerrant is completely untenable. Even the beginning of the Bible contradicts itself: compare the creation stories in Genesis 1 and Genesis 3. The Christians who insist on treating Scripture in this way have done far more damage to their faith than any skeptic ever did.

By the way, it's true that rabbits don't chew their cud. They have a rather different strategy for passing their food through their digestive tracts twice. I'll spare you the details.

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stopbush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-28-04 12:12 AM
Response to Reply #16
19. I don't think it's fair to assume Jesus existed.
The Paulist Epistles - which weren't all written by Paul, BTW - do not make claims for a flesh-incarnate Jesus. Paul seems to believe that Jesus fought his battles and was resurrected in heaven, with Jesus "revealing" his message to Paul and other apostles (which is different from disciples). Why do Paul and none of the other NT Epistle writers ever mention any details of Jesus' Earthly life? Probably because they didn't even consider that there WAS an incarnate Jesus.

And the Gospels were all written decades after Jesus supposed life, with Mark as the earliest. Matthew, Luke and John are re-workings of Mark (with plenty of contradictory accounts of the same events). For me, too many of the "big, unique" moments in the life of Jesus are bald-faced re-workings of the religion of Zoroaster and the myths of Horus and Mithra.

When there's some actual historic evidence available, I'd like to see it. To this point, there's nada.

In reality, I could just as easily - and with the same methods of deduction - prove the Hercules actually lived. After all, Plato talks about Hercules like he was an actual person, and we know Plato existed (which is more than we can say for the Gospel writers).
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megatherium Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-27-04 09:09 PM
Response to Original message
15. I'm reminded of the bumper sticker: Who would Jesus bomb?
I that on a car last year, about the time they launched the war in Iraq.

I'm a liberal Christian; yes, I believe there are errors in the scriptures but there's extremely good things in the scriptures too. (Such as the parable of the good Samaritan, which Jesus told in response to a question, "who is our neighbor?". The question was prompted by Jesus' summation of the Law: Love God and love your neighbor.)
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rocktivity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-27-04 10:29 PM
Response to Original message
17. Al Sharpton calls it "The Christian Right versus the Right Christians"
Edited on Fri Feb-27-04 10:39 PM by rocknation
The Passion movie, coupled with the gay marriage "crisis" and the Constitution Restoration Act, are exposing the Christian right-wing controlled Bush Regime as the dangerous, ruthless fanatics that they are. A "Right Christian" movement is desparately needed to show that it's the Christian right wingnuts who are the evil self-serving aberrations. What's the difference between what the Christian right are trying to do in America and what the Muslim Shiites are trying to do in Iraq.

:headbang:
rocknation
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-27-04 10:51 PM
Response to Original message
18. stidwell yes i agree
with exactly what you are saying. so the thing is hearing on so many of the shows, especially hardball tonight seems to have become the adopted idea of the passion, as opposed to the compassionate jesus, so hey, gigglin adn a wink, we will just have to share our wisdom with our fellow christians on the right and remind them who their jesus is, bah ha ha ha. lol lol. trippin cuase i have just the forum to do. i say in jest

yes i think this is being given in grace. people need to start speaking out and since i am hearing more nad more of it on here, just a matter of time before it becomes more universal
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FizzFuzz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-28-04 04:39 PM
Response to Original message
20. Shakyamuni Buddha
(or Siddharta or Gautama) predates Christ In fact there is some scholarship that posits that Jesus studied the Buddha's teachings ...
Sorry I can't explain more, I'm not an authority
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