How should we deal with the Boomers hitting Social Security?

[jpgray]

Poll question: How should we deal with the Boomers hitting Social Security?

The budget doesn't have much room for serious cuts--not enough to meet the coming demand. Repealing Bush's tax cuts on the wealthy is fine, but even repealing them for all wouldn't fully solve this problem. In my opinion, it comes down to Defense spending and social spending. How do you see it?

[OneBlueSky]

1. cut defense spending for sure, but you better believe that . . .

no matter who's president, there's gonna be tax increases . . .

[whirlygigspin]

5. Logan's Run

simply reverse the order of life experiences.

0-18 becomes social security years,everyone gets $1 million bucks at birth to do with as you please,invest your cash, have fun, travel, learn to play canasta,and get discounts everywhere.

18-30 by this time you should know what you want to do with your life--go to school and get a diploma

30-65 work work work,

65-over, well, you've had your whole life to invest and save up, your on your own, enjoy

[Nederland]

45. Why not

...plug old people into The Matrix?

[Atman]

17. Same as with the rich...

Give us our checks NOW...all of it. Worry about the consequences later.

[POed_Ex_Repub]

2. Cut defense spending

Or, if we can't do that I suggest cryogenic freezing.

[Robin Hood]

3. Roll back Bush's welfare for the rich program

otherwise known as Bush's trickle down tax structure.

[camero]

Yes, exactly

Cut defense spending and means testing SS also works. It was always meant to be a poverty program. I think the rich getting Social Security is also a form of Corporate welfare. Also the ceiling on SS taxes needs to be raised. All income after $87,000 is not taxed currently.

[Robin Hood]

13. But if you pay into it

It shouldn't matter how much you have in the bank. Furthermore, when you implement means testing you place a stigma on SS. We can secure social security by undoing 1/3rd of Bush's poor tax policy.

[camero]

23. Incomes over the cap don't pay

Hence where's the fairness in that?

[pnb]

31. The payouts are ultimately capped also

That's where the fairness is.

[camero]

38. Do you have any proof?

It's beside the point anyway. People who need help should get it and people who can take care of themselves should take care of themselves.

[camero]

40. also in the original bill

The wealthy were not classified as employees. The difference was in how they classified wages.


(6) The term "wages" shall mean the total of every form of remuneration received by an employee from an employer, whether paid directly or indirectly by an employer,including salaries, commissions, bonuses, and the reasonable money value of rent, housing, lodging, board (except in the case of board, the total money value shall not be included unless such total value is in excess of $10 for any calendar month), payments in kind, and similar advantages; but it shall not include any such remuneration received by a nonmanual worker who is employed at a monthly salary of more than $250 a month.

[DemBones DemBones]

18. Social Security meant to be a poverty program?

That was my impression when I was younger -- or, more accurately, that it was not for the well-to-do. But when I've asked older friends (people born before 1920, people of my parents' generation) about it, they said it was always supposed to be for everyone. I don't know what the history actually is.

[camero]

24. The original bill

http://www.ssa.gov/history/pdf/fdrbill.pdf

A BILL
To alleviate the hazards of old age, unemployment, illness, and
dependency, to establish a Social Insurance Board in the
Department of Labor, to raise revenue, and for other
purposes.

DEFINITION OF OLD-AGE ASSISTANCE
SEC. 3. As used in this title, old-age assistance shall
mean financial assistance assuring a reasonable subsistence compatible with decency and health to persons not less than
sixty-five years of age who, at the time of receiving such
financial assistance, are not inmates of public or other
charitable institution.

[primavera]

27. Hear, hear!

We have got to start substantively addressing the already staggering and daily growing income inequality gap in this country. In Europe, the CEOs earn between 10 and 15 times the average salary of their workers; here, CEOs make 410 times the average salary of their workers. Since the shrub usurped President Gore's office, the income of the richest .001% has risen by a jaw-dropping 600%!

Now, I'm all for rewarding hard work and maintaining personal profit motive, but this is getting out of hand. The richest 2% of the population control 80% of the wealth in this country. And we wonder why social programs are consistently coming up short? How about because it's hard to make ends meet when 98% of the population is having to make do on only 20% of their country's resources? It's bad enough that we tolerate such an obscene level of income inequality, now we're going to make it worse and further bankrupt the vast, overwhelming majority of the country by giving this miniscule handful of bazzillionnaires massive tax cuts? At what point do we say enough is enough, we don't want to return to the dark ages of feudal aristocracy and serfdom? Oops, my mistake, we've already passed that level of income inequality.

[Fight_n_back]

4. Feed half of them

to the other half

[bluestateguy]

6. Cut Defense, raise retirement age, means test SS.

Cut defense by 20%. We will still be the most powerful military in the world.

raise the retirement age for Generation X to 70, with a clause that would allow blue-collar workers to retire at 65 with a doctor's certification.

Raise payroll taxes for people making over $100,000.

Give wealthy retirees the option of a one time payout of X amount of dollars, in exchange for them not collecting benefits. .

[camero]

11. Thanks to Bush

We Xers may not live that long. I'm probably one of the few that think that the retirement age should not be raised for anyone. But that it should go back to its original intent. Which was as a safety net. Wealthier people don't really need a supplementary income.

At the same time I know that alot of Upper middle class people could very well have their investments wiped out by the Enrons and such so I don't think they should be left out.

[LeahMira]

33. Some good... some ?

Cut defense by 20%. We will still be the most powerful military in the world.

Isn't our defense spending more than the combined total spending of all the rest of the world's nations? If you were meaning 20% per year, you are on to something! :-)


raise the retirement age for Generation X to 70, with a clause that would allow blue-collar workers to retire at 65 with a doctor's certification.

You must be a lot younger than I am. Looks now like I'm going to have to work one extra year in order to get full benefits, and that thought does not please me at all. I'm getting tired!

Raise payroll taxes for people making over $100,000.

That works!

Give wealthy retirees the option of a one time payout of X amount of dollars, in exchange for them not collecting benefits.

Well, I'd rather see them not get Social Security at all if their personal income permits them to live comfortably without it. At the same time, older people get sick and if their investments are in Enron stock, imagine what can happen. I'd prefer that they have the option to receive Social Security at any point if their personal income falls below a certain level. That would mean that possibly a person would not receive Social Security from 65 to 75, but that s/he could begin receiving it at 76 if personal circumstances change. Social Security was intended, after all, to be a safety net. It should be there if it's needed. It should be politely declined, IMO, by those who don't need it in favor of those who depend on those regular payments to get by.

[Rabrrrrrr]

7. We tell the "Me" generation to take the hell care of themselves

Except for those who can prove they've never bought an SUV, never purchased from the Sharper Image, and actually managed to continue to live ther marijuana-induced ideals they spouted in the 1960s.

I know a number Boomers who totally fit athat bill, and they deserve to exist.

The other Boomers, the sell-outs and the jerkoffs, can go fend for themselves. But then, they're the ones who likely have millions of bucks, so they wouldn't need help anyway (though I bet they'll still apply for all the government money they can get while simulatneously decrying the welfare state).

[InkAddict]

35. I object!

I wasn't allowed to live like that in the 60s, that's not my fault-- and our family didn't have an SUV until it was needed for the 200 mile a day commute to the long-list of jobs that paid a living wage for a family of 4. It will be gone soon now that the burger flippin' is done around the corner!

[Rabrrrrrr]

42. InkAddict?

Are you a fountain pen fan?

The whole economy is bugging the hell out of me.

But, you don't need to object, since under my system, you'd be covered. :-)

[MikeGalos]

8. Simple

Restore the economic structure of the mid 1950s.

1. Minimum wage at 1/2 the median income. (about $14.00/hr)
2. Progressive income tax with a peak rate of 90% for the richest group.
3. Roll back tax breaks for corporations and charge them for ALL income including offshore subsidiaries (but keep the breaks for LLCs and other small businesses

This results in a huge increase in tax income to pay for the other expenditures that are needed and we can put the trillions back into the SSI funds that Bush stole. (And, no, for those of you who bought into the Republican Big Lie about Big Government, we do NOT have a bigger government now than we did then. Under Clinton the government was the same percentage of GDP that we had 50 years earlier.)

It'd work. It helps people. It'd be wildly unpopular with the Republicans but sure meets the whole point of Social Security and a just society.

[Wapsie B]

9. Raise the cap

on FICA withholding from 80k to 160k. Or do away with it altogether.

[REP]

15. I'm For Doing Away With All Together

I'm sure I'd feel that way if I ever did make over 85K a year, too.

Of course, my plan is my limited life expectancy.

[SiobhanClancy]

21. That's been my plan,too....

But in case it doesn't work(and the time draws closer)I hope I get a penny or two that I've paid in for all these years:(

[FDRrocks]

10. Cut defense spending

It's the biggest pork in our system. We could fund every social service we have without raising taxes, if we had a government that didnt piss off the populous of other countries with oppresive measures and scaled back the pentagon to the right (in that scenario) amount of funding.

[LSdemocrat]

12. means test, raise taxes (raise payroll tax cutoff), balance budget

[Lab Owner]

14. Soylent Green

(Anyone remember??)

[oc2002]

30. ..yes, I kid my freinds about that all the time.

..Soylent Green is People!

Thats for those of you who have not seen the clasic sci-fi movie.

[newyawker99]

49. Hi Lab Owner!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[BiggJawn]

16. Cut defense WASTE.

The biggest defense budget in the world, and what do we get? Fat contracts for POS systems to ReTHUG contributors, and no body armour or food for our soldiers.

And then we tell our 40 and 50-somethings "Oh, Sorry, guess you should have invested more when you were young..."

I don't make even HALF of that magical 87 Kilobuck figure. It's only been in the last 10 years that I even made more than $30,000 a year. What the fuck was I supposed to invest all these years? pennies a week? I couldn' even afford the fucking brokerage fees!


Something's wrong with this picture.

Anyone got any tasty "Cooking with cat food for Seniors" recipes?

[skippysmom]

36. You hit the nail on the head

"What the fuck was I supposed to invest all these years? pennies a week? I couldn' even afford the fucking brokerage fees!"

I feel the same way. I'm only 32, and I know I should be contributing more to a retirement -- but where is the money supposed to come from? With a mortgage, plus bills, plus ever increasing property taxes, plus wanting to have kids, etc. etc.

I spent most of my 20s in dead end, low wage jobs because the economy was crap. I didn't exactly have money to be putting aside.

[BiggJawn]

50. We were in the same boat.

I was doing OK in my early 20's. I had a fairly high-paying manufactering job (No, it was NOT "Burger assembly") and had started a family.

Then Ronaldus Rex (curse his name!) ascended to the topaz throne...Uh, Oval Office, and everything went down the toilet. My $9.50/hr plus 30% production bonus plus 10% Night Bonus was replaced by a $2.20/hr job working for some damn Yuppie Scum in a warehouse ("I'd give you a raise, but I don't want you to lose your food stamps").
It was almost TEN FREAKIN' YEARS before my income went above $20,000, and I did not see 30 kilobucks on the 1040A until 1995, and this year I was about a cheap trip to Las Vegas short of making $40,000...

and during those years, I started another family (huge mistake, but no kids, thank Random Chance!) got divorced again, AND bought a house (that I lost).

Yeah, I sure can't wait to listen to Bob Brinker's show every week, how about you?
:7

[noonwitch]

19. I'm opening a chain of psychedelic-themed nursing homes

Smiley faces everywhere, tye-dyed pajamas and sheets, Beatles, Doors, etc., on the speakers, it'll be fun! Boomers will want their nursing homes to be fun places.

[InkAddict]

32. Want to sign on to the waiting list!

Have you chosen a name for your chain: Woodstock Revisited, Age In Aquarius, Innagoddadavida (sp?)??? My 87-yr-old dialysis-trippin' blondie WWII RW FIL, who preferred not to wear sunscreen (not manly) or eat fruits/veggies for their antioxidants (they look funny), prefers his institutions to resemble a cross between the Soda Shoppe on Happy Days and the Love Boat ala Eathan Allen starring good old Gopher and Julie, the Cruise Director. Oh yea, did I forget Madge the manicurist (she died recently you know) and a Driving Ms. Daisy chauffeur, who's a "fine boy" (not my take, his). So, life does imitate art/entertainment!

It's just that FIL's now in the almost surrendered x 2 DIY home of his only son (who is now vastly underemployed and can no longer augment the guy's healthy, but not healthy enough, pension benes with scripts probably going out the door soon. (Isn't it marvelous that science can keep those who didn't believe in investment alive, though not well, long past usurious policy shifts that will vastly reduce whatever there was. Yep, good timing required he "kick the bucket" on time as directed by the appointed Metropolitan Life standard.

Coming from a home of religious RW zeolots, I was forbidden to participate in tie-dye, bell-bottoms, and flower power protests, so this sounds attractive for my second childhood/adolescent years, and a dedicated volunteer caretaking/medical staff doing their community service for the crimes of accumulating too much wealth would surely round out this daydream!

Seriously, whatever's planned you better do it fast (I'm hearing the MASH theme) because this family was just too, too square and served too well. No Silicone Valley wages for this IT mercenary family who've been in scrimmage/survival mode since the '80s - just a long string of downsizing, merging, corporate relos w/o employees, and government contract reassignments to line pockets of Repugs friends (talk about fickle and funny how that coincides with Repug policies).

What this really means, is a long, long string of job losses in which most all savings/equity has been lost and/or spoken for to keep alive and out of harm's way and now culminating in huge underemployment w/o healthcare or much means at all to replenish rainy day dollars. We're not getting any younger, don't cha know - (OMG, your free love nursing center is sounding better and better)

Also our timing being born just wasn't too good (see how I accept responsibility for my actions). Reaching that magical (un)protected age of 40+ surely won't outweigh TPTB's subjective cost/benefit analysis of re-training a 60-year-old (added points for Vet status - not!)for what - certified doggy obedience???

At least at the apex, Clinton's jobs helped to half-way college educate the kids without the need for military service, bless you Bill. Now *select's pretty much killed the hope that they'd be able to bear the burden of our care, since our plans/savings/programs are to be stripped bare! I'm looking at genocidal LIHOP/MIHOP here, and it don't look pretty, but it will give all those RW'ers something to put in their SUV/pick-up beds, if there's still gas to run them...Ashes, ashes, the cart's coming down the street.

Our trouble stemmed from the fact that we were inculcated with the F**ked up theme that clean cars, an evenly mowed lawn, and a well-paid preacher/salesman were the finest ways to fully participate in the heathen society...WHAT CRAP! Enough ranting from the DIEBOLD state...where can I sign up for your '60s home now so I can start out my second puberty right - RUN, FOREST, RUN......BE RIGHT BACK, GOTTA GET MORE CHOCOLATE, anaphylactic allergy notwithstanding!

[kayell]

20. Cut defense spending, raise taxes on the wealthy, means testing for SS and

eliminate corporate welfare. Gee, we might even be able to afford a decent health care plan then.

[Beaker]

22. Remove the wage cap.

and take FICA taxes out of capital gains.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

25. Tax the rich and pay back the Social Security fund

It was Reagans tax cuts for the rich and transferring Social Security money to pay for them that caused the "problem" - and Bush has done the same thing and made it worse.

Raise the top level of taxes, and use that money to pay back the Social Security trust fund. At some point we should probably remove the income cap too - and count ALL income, including investment income, as taxable.

Enough of the rich getting a free ride!

[Gringo]

44. RIGHT ON!

n/t

[Yupster]

26. Pain for each side

1. Raise the income limit for deductions to $ 150,000 from its current $ 87,000.

2. Bring the priviledged workers, mostly school teachers and state workers who have been allowed to not participate in social security back into the system.

Each of these changes would bring huge amounts of money into the system. They could also be done politically if they're done together because each side would have to sacrifice something which one of their biggest special interest groups are against. Republicans would raise taxes on the rich without any increased benefit and Democrats would ask teachers to have the same retirement plan that everyone else has.

It would work.

However, going after all the Republican interest groups, while protecting our own will not have any chance of working politically, nor should it. We need to make painful changes, but only your side should feel the pain. Nope, not gonna happen.

[Mari333]

28. Ive picked out a lovely cardboard box for my retirement n/t

[oc2002]

29. ..Soylent Green Retirement Home?

/jk.

Just seems like that may be what the Republicans wanted all along though.

[Mattforclark]

34. means testing, increase cap

Maybe something else as well.

The problem with means testing is that you don't want to cut of SS for anyone who actually needs it. But I don't see any particular reason that Bill Gates will need to get a SS check when he retires.

[Mr.Green93]

37. put them on ice flows

[Mattforclark]

41. That's terrible

But I must admit it is also funny.

[skippysmom]

39. Raise the cap or eliminate it

It's the fairest way. Why should a millionaire pay the same amount in payroll taxes as someone making $85K?

I also think we should be getting corporations and wealthy individuals to pay their fair share. I'm not saying to raise the percentage they pay in taxes -- I'm saying, make them pay the percentage they're supposed to pay.

I watched NOW last week, on offshore tax havens, and it really angers me that there are huge corporations who pay a lower marginal tax rate than I do -- if they pay tax at all.

[Gringo]

43. Gov't should pay back the trillions it has taken from SS surpluses

before there is ANY discussion of "fixing" social security.

[doc03]

46. Execution at age 65 to 67 depending when they were born

We didn't have a problem until * got there. The surplus we had under Clinton would have taken care of it. I have 10 more years to enjoy going to work every day maybe even more if * gets his way.

[grasswire]

47. aghhh!!

The answer is simple.

MEANS TEST.

And stop siphoning money from the social security revenue into tax cuts for the rich.

We means test housing assistance, small business loans, student loans, food stamps, welfare, disability payments, yadda. People who make too much can't qualify.

So why can't we means test MEDICARE and SOCIAL SECURITY? Something like this: if you have 1.5 million in assets and $100,000 in annual income, you don't get social security or medicare.

It's very simple.

[moondust]

48. Cut bloated defense budget, tax outsourcing companies heavily.

Adopt a realistic view of National Defense based on necessity, not the paranoia of the wealthy or the global ambitions of U.S. imperialists.

Tax and/or penalize outsourcing companies for the loss of tax revenues that accompanies outsourcing, failure to meet U.S. environmental and labor standards in ALL of their facilities regardless of location and local laws, etc.