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ulysses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-17-04 04:05 PM
Original message
"That's how The Enemy enters the minds of our students...
through their genitalia."

-- My employer in a discussion this afternoon of children in the school who not only display normal five-year-old facination with body parts but know their proper names as well.

I'm going to write a book about teaching at this school some day...
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Fenris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-17-04 04:07 PM
Response to Original message
1. W O W
Do you work for the Pope, too?
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ulysses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-17-04 04:09 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. well, we have Catholic students
but it's very much a fundamentalist/Protestant leaning school.
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Fenris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-17-04 04:25 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. That was my second guess!
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ulysses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-17-04 04:29 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. should've been the first guess.
I have only secondhand knowledge of Catholic schooling, but knowing what I do know, and given a choice of that or the fundies I work for now, I'll go with the Jesuits every time.
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Nay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-17-04 04:33 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. Agreed, Ulysses. I have bones to pick with all religions, but
Catholic schools urge you to argue, defend, attack, and debate, with nothing off the table. My son, an atheist like us, went to Catholic high school and debated like crazy in religion class, and the teachers loved him because he actually gave a shit about the subject.

Try THAT in a Christian school or a public school.
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Book Lover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-17-04 04:40 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. What Catholic school did YOU go to?
Because I feel like I was cheated out of something big time! I went for 12 years, and I never felt free to voice my dissenting opinions.
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damnraddem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-17-04 06:36 PM
Response to Reply #16
33. It helps if the Catholic school is Jesuit, or even one of the other orders
I went to a Jesuit high school. Even when they were dogmatic, we didn't believe it, thought they were just trying to get us to argue.

But this is why the Jesuits, and some other teaching orders, have been pushed out of teaching in various dioceses -- they were too 'liberal' in their religious teaching.
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ulysses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-17-04 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. there's a genuine tradition there
of intellectual development, and the problems I have with the Catholic Church (as well as other religions, as with you) aside, I'll gladly give them at least that much.

There *are* Protestant sects and schools that at least approximate that tradition, but the fundies, in my experience, come more from a stand of intentional ignorance.
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Book Lover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-17-04 05:47 PM
Response to Reply #18
23. Like anything that is as vast as the CC
I suppose one must allow for local differences.

As a medievalist, I know about the intellectual history of the Church, but I have to tell you, I never found my open curiosity was welcome. I'm glad it was different for you.
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DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-17-04 05:16 PM
Response to Reply #10
20. The Jesuits are some of the best teachers
you'll ever meet. My brother studied under the Jesuits.

Since I was a girl I was taught by nuns, Josephites (uck) and Dominicans. Especially in HS, the Dominicans were surprisingly open minded women. We were allowed to talk about anything and everything. We had male lay teachers who the nuns hired not only for their qualification has teachers but also to help out a few fellows who needed the draft deferment. We were also allowed to take time off from school to go Viet Nam War protests and they closed the school so we could go to the first Earth Day parade down 5th Ave.

I quit the Catholic Church a long time ago for assorted reasons. However, thanks to these women and the time and place (60's, NYC) I am who I am today.


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YNGW Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-17-04 04:15 PM
Response to Original message
3. Danish government bans sex ed CD-ROM
The Associated Press reports "the Danish government halted the distribution 60,000 CD-ROMs for sexual education classes throughout the country because some of the content was deemed unacceptable." At issue, among other things, is "information about . . . bestiality and partners relieving themselves on each other while having sex."

http://www.boston.com/news/odd/articles/2004/02/13/dani...
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ulysses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-17-04 04:19 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. ok, good on the Danes.
Edited on Tue Feb-17-04 04:20 PM by ulysses
I have no problem with the existence of "water sports" for those who are into that kind of thing, but it's not something I'd suggest be covered in a basic sex ed class. Beastiality, no.

And neither of these is comparable to simply knowing the word "penis".
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DrWeird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-17-04 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #4
9. But they already cover bestiality in schools.
It's in the school library. In the dictionary. I suspect there's more to this danish story then what get's sensationalized. The CD's probably just got a huge amount of encyclopedic information.
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ulysses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-17-04 04:30 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. that's a good point.
Excellent one in fact. Thanks, Doc!
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hatrack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-17-04 04:21 PM
Response to Original message
5. Satan wants your penis! Beelzebub seeks your vulva!
Good grief, bring out the feathered sticks and rattles and let the witch doctors go to work - these people NEED it!
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ulysses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-17-04 04:25 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. it could almost be an SNL skit.
One thing I have determined in all this, though, is that these folks back down often as not given a firm resistance. There's a lot of noise on the religious right, but quite often not as much backbone.
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Book Lover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-17-04 04:41 PM
Response to Reply #5
17. That is the name of my next punk rock album (nt)
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MountainLaurel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-17-04 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #5
37. Oh. My. Lord.
I think the phrase "Beezlebub seeks your vulva" has been burned into my unconscious forever. I can hear it this sort of satanic, Beavis voice.
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buddhamama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-17-04 04:27 PM
Response to Original message
8. i hope she doesn't utter
this tripe to the children, that is sooo unhealthy.
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ulysses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-17-04 04:32 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. oh, she can't even bring up the subject with them.
Of course, she's planning to expand to high school over the next several years, so she's going to have to at some point.

The joy of private education.
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DrWeird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-17-04 04:30 PM
Response to Original message
11. Protect the sanctity of marriage. Encourage premarital sex.
Nothing does more damage to the institution of marriage then horny kids running off to get married so they can have sex. We need to stop the abstinence agenda.
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ulysses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-17-04 04:36 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. much agreed, but frankly
I'd just be happy, for now, with a nation in which kids aren't taught stupidly offensive nicknames for parts of their body (it's evidently ok for a kid to tell me about his "wee-wee", but let him call it a "penis" and it's apocalypse).

I tried to teach Platonic solids to the oldest kids in the fall - "dodecahedron" very quickly became "doody-caca". :eyes:
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Jax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-17-04 05:03 PM
Response to Original message
19. I'd read that book
You are so sharp on these forms ulysses. I love to read you here.

I hate that you are in that school, but then I feelglad for the kids who have a chance to be taught by you there. I believe the kids you teach and have taught there will be better people having had you as their teacher.

Jax
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ulysses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-17-04 06:00 PM
Response to Reply #19
25. thanks
In spite of all the bullshit, I've gotten a lot that I can take away in terms of how knowledge about children learn and think. I hope that the kids have gotten and are getting something like as much.
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salin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-17-04 05:26 PM
Response to Original message
21. oh my goodness...
rush limbaugh and the echo chamber grab hold of new minds through... *gasp*
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ulysses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-17-04 06:04 PM
Response to Reply #21
27. yes, that's right.
It's all about the naughty parts, after all. :eyes:
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kodi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-17-04 05:29 PM
Response to Original message
22. so VD is the Enemy according to this fella?
.
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ulysses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-17-04 06:02 PM
Response to Reply #22
26. heh
Nietzsche, please pick up the white courtesy phone. :)

She doesn't even get as far as STDs, I'm fairly certain.
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kodi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-17-04 07:10 PM
Response to Reply #26
38. germ theory is still just a THEORY & microscopes are the devil's tool
i wonder, is pointing out how utterly stupid these people are on par with pointing out when someone has red cabbage stuck between their teeth?

you have a moral and ethical imperative to settle them back into reality, for their ownsake.
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ulysses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-17-04 08:36 PM
Response to Reply #38
41. about that imperative...
I suppose that I could try, but I'm not sure what the point would be other than mutual aggravation and my early termination. After all, it would be my word against a faith that will find justification in the will of God for any happenstance, including the exit of a long line of good teachers.
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geniph Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-17-04 05:52 PM
Response to Original message
24. I suppose anyone whose mind was forever on their own
genitalia would think that EVULLL could get straight into the mind from the 'wee-wee'. Or wait - is it that it can only get into a penis or a vagina, but not into a 'wee-wee' or a 'thingie'?

:eyes:

Demons in the pudenda!
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ulysses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-17-04 06:04 PM
Response to Reply #24
29. ROFL!
Demons in the pudenda!

Bless you, Geni. :D
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boobooday Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-17-04 06:04 PM
Response to Original message
28. It would be funny
In some kind of SNL skit, maybe! That's some crazy shit.

http://www.wgoeshome.com

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PVnRT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-17-04 06:21 PM
Response to Original message
30. Ye gods
No wonder so many fundies become sex addicts and general perverts, if they repress themselves like that.
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ulysses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-17-04 06:44 PM
Response to Reply #30
34. seems like it's such incredible desperation
against a culture that, liberal political fortunes notwithstanding, is tilting inexorably away from fundie moralism. I just read a Harper's article from several months ago (I'm behind in my reading) about the intersection of religion and environmentalism in which the author talks at some length about the recent prophesies of doom and armageddon as a desperate reaction to declining influence. I suspect that that's true, and it influences the fact that my students seem to know almost nothing of Atlanta (City of Sin) a mere 20 miles to the south.

Fundamentalists are fleeing anything that reeks of the modern because they know they're losing the battle, even if they can't admit it.
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maggrwaggr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-17-04 06:23 PM
Response to Original message
31. my fundie stepmom thinks Satan can enter your mind during yoga
or other forms of meditation. She thinks you have to be forever on your guard, you can't relax, you can't empty your mind, or SATAN might take it over.

I don't know how she justifies sleeping. Maybe I should ask her.
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Chovexani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-17-04 06:26 PM
Response to Original message
32. What's next?
I swear these kinds of people would use the Malleus Maleficarum as a textbook if they could get away with it...

--C.
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-17-04 06:49 PM
Response to Original message
35. What a sad situation
when you have to view your students' minds as vessels of the "Enemy."

<sigh> America would be a lot better off, in my negligible little opinion, if we could stop obsessing over our bodies in any form. Evil, dirty, shameful, or just sexual statements.

How about houses for our souls, that should be honored in all aspects, and appreciated regardless of form?
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ulysses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-17-04 06:56 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. it is.
These folks are out there. Kids aren't born with an innate hatred of the mortal coil, they're taught it.
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-17-04 07:13 PM
Response to Reply #36
39. And you are working in the thick of it.
I always hope that if I model kindness, inquiry, integrity, and openness, that it is a seed planted for them that may someday bear fruit.
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JohnOneillsMemory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-17-04 07:34 PM
Response to Original message
40. Fear of sexuality seems to be the root of all evil. We primates like sex.
Cultures that are more comfortable with sexuality and physical displays of affection and love are much less violent.

Dig this: Here's where we are STILL at in puritan/vulgar Murica.

I found a used book in Chattanooga written in 1966 by a fundamentalist preacher, David A. Noebel, called 'Rhythm, Riots and Revolution.'

It's by the the same author as 'Communism, Hypnotism, and the Beatles.' No-I'm not kidding!

He contends that the Commies are using Pavlovian brainwashing techniques in rock music to program our children to dance with the devil and hate their government. The author calls rock music 'negro fertility music.' Yes, he gets in racism, too.

The shrieking teens of Beatlemania prove this to his mind.

And the folkies who sing for social justice (Pete Seegar, Woody Guthrie, Joan Baez, Bob Dylan, Phil Ochs) are all tools of the godless Red Menace.

What's ironic is that many people behind the Iron Curtain say that their love of Beatles music is what helped them reject Communism and embrace the west!

"Can't Buy Me Love..."

Here's a Baptist joke from Glen Campbell:
(Many Baptists don't believe in dancing-too sinful to do in public.)

Q: Why don't Baptists make love standing up?
A: Someone might think they were dancing.

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knight_of_the_star Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-17-04 09:12 PM
Response to Original message
42. Dear Gods!
I believe that their sanity has taken permanent leave of their minds.

According to them, weren't humans made in God's image? So ergo, God would have a penis. And if we are made in his image, then would it be too far a leap to assume that he can have pleasure from that penis? So wouldn't it be defying the will of God to say that sex is immoral and wrong and all that crap?

Gotta love being a Wiccan and a student of Philosophy and Human Sexuality!
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