Is Rush being singled out?

[forgethell]

Let's get one thing straight, Rush is a big fat idiot. Nothing here is meant to defend Rush as Rush. However, whatever the rules are, they should apply to everybody.

http://tampatrib.com/News/MGAEYBRH1QD.html

I don't know whether this is a conservative publication, or not. I don't care. If confidential information about Rush Limbaugh can be exposed, then confidential information about anybody can be exposed. I think these prosecutors should have a little court time from the other side of the aisle. What do you think?

[bearfartinthewoods]

1. probably

i heard an interview that said the doctor shopping law had only been prosecuted twice in like ten years.

[librechik]

2. well, we need to investigate all the liberal talk show hosts!

Wait, there aren't any.

Guess we're stuck with Rush, and Winer, and Dr. Laura, and Hannity, and O'Reilly--There's a lot of those types to investigate. Think we'll get it?

:lol:

[forgethell]

5. i don't think they can

charge you for being liberal or conservative. Yet.

[MoonAndSun]

3. Have you not figured out yet that there are 2 rules, one for Dems and

progressive and then there is the one for repukes and rightwingers. If this was not Pigboy being targeted, then the rightwingers could care less about this issue.

[jmags]

4. Just because its happening to Limbaugh

doesn't mean it's right. Stick by your beliefs, even if it means you have to stand up for someone you think is repulsive.

[arcane1]

9. should we all be allowed to buy these drugs w/out a script?

in the Denny's parking lot? Maybe we can do away with perscriptions entirely, I know that would make the big pharms happy

[forgethell]

13. No, and Rush shouldn' either

but my point was about exposing his confidential information. If he is tried and convicted, he should go to jail. But answer me about his private info, and if you are willing for your medical records to be publicized. What about your legal talks??

[sendero]

19. give me a break...

... just based on what we/law enforcement already know - if this had been some unknown he'd be in jail now, period.

Rush is getting special treatment all right.

[forgethell]

7. Who cares what the RW thinks?

But even the RW can be right, occassionally. If it can be done to Rush, with all his money & clout, then it can be done to YOU.

[Zinfandel]

23. I think ones time would be better served worrying about the Patriot Act

being renewed, (that Limbaugh supports) than to be worrying about a filthy rich, privileged older white male, who will serve absolutely no jail time, like the disgusting, hate spewing, liar, Rush Limbaugh!

[forgethell]

38. I guess that I didn't make myself clear,

sorry, I thought that I was more specific. I DON'T CARE about Rush, personally. I am worried about the power that the judcial system has, in this case the prosecutor. I am worried about violating the confidentiality of of the legal negotiations in an effort to smear a person, be he a famous RW commetator, or Joe Blow off the street.

The Patriot Act cn be abused, yes, but everyone is aware of it. Many people don't know what the legal system can do to you. My own acquaintance with it is minimal, but enough so that I despise it.

Tell you what, you worry about what worries you, I'll spend my time & effort on what worries me. Maybe together we can make a difference. But what makes you think I don't worry about the Patriot Act. I don't know about you, but I can walk and chew gum simultaneously.

[arcane1]

6. Courtney Love got caught w/some of the exact same drugs

and she got BOOKED!!

Rush is being singled out all right, with special treatment!

Courtney Love booked on drug-possession charges

October 29, 2003 11:58 AM - Rock singer and actress Courtney Love was charged with a pair of felony drug counts on Tuesday (10/28) for alleged illegal possession of prescription painkillers.

The performer, 39, was arrested and booked on two misdemeanor drug charges earlier this month, after she allegedly tried to break into a home in Los Angeles. Later the same day, authorities were called to Love's home in Beverly Hills to treat her for a drug overdose. While at her home, police allegedly found two legal painkillers--hydrocodone and oxycodone--for which Love had no prescription.

-snip-

http://www.livedaily.com/news/5681.html

[forgethell]

18. Two different jurisdictions, besides

we don't know that Rush won't be booked. Please answer the question. should his confidential negotiations be publicized to the prosecutions advantage? It seems to me that such a precedent is far more likely to hurt the progressive than the conservative.

[LiberalFighter]

45. What is done in other cases?

When there is a murder or burglary what happens with the defendant when they are offered a plea agreement? Is there a public awareness of the specific charges based on the minimum and maximum?

Isn't there also a perception by the public that some defendants accept a plea agreement even if they are innocent or to avoid a prolong trial?

So if there is an agreement that does not involve the production of evidence then that would provide Limbaugh a means of keeping his listeners hooked. Without evidence... in the eyes of his listeners he is innocent.

[forgethell]

48. I'm not sure that I understand your argument

I don't think that negotiations are announced until they are concluded. Certainly not the details of them. It Rush pled guilty to something, I believe that most of his fans would assume that he was guilty of it. It's true that sometimes people plead to avoid the expense of a trial. These are probably people to whom the expense would prove as costly as the actual punishment. By expense, howver, I don't mean just money.

Rush, like, say, Martha Stewart, is not in that category, and definitely will not plead guilty to a felony. He has the resources to fight.

[Skittles]

8. Martha Stewart is being singled out

it's one of the pitfalls of fame

[Kathy in Cambridge]

15. Martha Stewart is being targeted

not to excuse what she did, but the fact that she is a successful woman who donates money to Dems is just too coincidental. The real big boys (Enron, Worldcom, etc) who screwed the average investor out of BILLIONS remain at large. Martha's $45,000 gain from the sale of stock is paltry by comparison to the real corporate thieves.

[forgethell]

20. Yes, she is, and

it's a shame, too. I never liked Martha, but golly, going to jail because you defended your innocence on an accusation that you were never actually indicted for: THAT IS INSANE.

[Skittles]

34. I've always despised her

I think she is a major-league phony. But even can see she's being unfairly targeted.

[FrankBooth]

10. The Oxy-Moron

Is getting his karmic comeuppance.

The only way he is going to get singled out is by receiving special treatment from Jeb.

[forgethell]

22. So, then, you approve of disclosing confidential legal documents?

I have awakened in Bizarro World! I cannot believe that people that call themselves progressives can approve of this.

[FrankBooth]

24. No

I don't happen to believe Rush is being singled out. That is my perogative.

I guess I'll have to wait until I get your approval to be a progressive. Why don't you send me an application?

[forgethell]

25. Is it?

OK, but can you back it up? Who else can you name thathas had his confidential legal negotiations with a prosecutor publicized by said prosecutor before he has even been charged?

I don't know of any, but there may be thousands. Educate me.

[FrankBooth]

26. "Is it?" Yes.

I thought that the negotiations being made public stemmed from a FOIA request by a group of conservatives?

I know that the ACLU filed on behalf of Limbaugh, I think that is fine. If he's being singled out and somehow victimized, then let him prove it. I'm not going to prove it for him. I hope he goes to jail.

As for prosecutors publicizing negotiations, think of the Starr Report for starters. OJ. Kobe Bryant. Martha Stewart. I'm sure there are plenty more.

[forgethell]

27. OK, then, there are others

It's not right in ANY case, which is my point. None of the above should have this done to them. And as I understand it, the FOIA doesn't apply to an ongoing investigation.

As for Rush, this isn't about him, but about the abuse of prosecutorial power. I don't care whether he goes to jail, or not. It's not my concern one way or another, and nobody should go to jail, just because you or I don't like him. I just say, the prosecutor shouldn't get off, either, if he broke the law.

As to what the actual facts in the case are, we'll just have to wait and see.

[LiberalFighter]

46. Scrubbed

[ProfessorGAC]

28. I Think You're Misframing The Debate

The court case has NOTHING to do with making those documents public. They have to do with the prosecutors and investigators access to those documents to establish criminality.

So, if i had to answer the question "Do you approve of one's medical records being made public?" the answer would be a resounding NO!

However, if the question is "Do you approve of law officers & officers of the court having access to medical records as part of a criminal investigation?" the answer is an qualified YES! (Qualified by needing a search warrant, approved by a judge, to minimize fishing expeditions.)

There is no disputing he was buying and taking those drugs. He admitted it. The question is just how extensive this illegal behavior was and how complicit he was in obtaining said drugs. Hence, i would say that i support the prosecutors' intentions here. They aren't fishing for a crime. The crime is already ex post facto. They are attempting to expand and substantiate. This isn't a willy-nilly subrogation of rights.

Think about it in those terms and see if your opinion is still as rock solid.
The Professor

[forgethell]

29. You misunderstood my objection

I don't like the disclosure that Rush's lawyer was discussing a plea bargain. The one that fell through because they wanted Rush to plead guilty to felony doctor shopping.

The medical records are another issue, entirely. One that I also disapprove of.

[marie123]

11. he is being singled out

but you know the old saying. Live by the sword..... ...

[Bandit]

12. Gee how did you hear about President Clinton's testimony to Grand Jury

How did his testimony get to be common knowlege? Rush singled out? What a laugh. Rush has been singling out Democrats and passing on confidential information for years and now the shoe is on the other foot and listen to the pigs squeel. You do realize that Grand Jury testimonies are highly classified. They are not public information

[OneTwentyoNine]

14. Yes,and his preferential treatment so far proves it beyond any doubt...

[ihaveaquestion]

16. This is wrong!

Prosecuters don't always play fair.

However, I doubt they would have published anything about this if the accused were a liberal democrat or anyone else conservatives have a problem with. I live in Tampa and get the Tribune. It's about 85% conservative and makes me ill sometimes. For example, when Sami Al Arian was accused and arrested on charges of supporting terroism (I have no opinion one way or the other on this), they were all over it as if he'd been found guilty already.

[KG]

17. the tampa trib is RW fish wrap.

please ignore anything found therein.

[TahitiNut]

21. "Out" of what???

Out of white, wealthy, conservatives? Obviously. Most seem to get a "free pass". If Rush were poor, black, and liberal it'd be "dog bites man" ... the prison population aptly demonstrates our extreme social bias in law enforcement.

[forgethell]

30. Ok, let's just frame the debate as 'out'

of middle-class or rich, no previous convictions, no selling, use and abuse of drugs for purposes on pain-relief only, not for entertainment, stress-relief, intoxication, marvelous high, or talk with God. No violence. Roots in the community.

Given the painkiller nature of the offense, I don't think that most prosecutors would bother with the poorest, blackest, most liberal offender, unless they wanted to get him for some other reason. I could be wrong, but it would be a waste of money to prosecute that crime. But it could be used as a club for something else, and that's what I think is happening here. It may not be his political views; the prosecutor could just be out for his 15 minutes of fame.

But again, I don't really care about the drug charges, or Rush. I care about the exposure of the plea negotiations, which offends every sense of fairness.

If they can do it to Rush, they WILL do it to us.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

31. The other thing is

Do we know for sure that the prosecutor's office leaked these documents. I couldn't care less about Rush so I haven't followed the details of the case, but I've heard rumors to the effect that his own lawyer might have leaked the correspondence from himself to the prosecutors to make them look bad and get their point of view out in public. But I don't know.

[FrankBooth]

36. The prosecutors released the docs under a FOIA request

Here are the letters in question.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/rushletters1.html

Here is a story which claims the letters, including the plea deal, were released under a Freedom of Information Act request made by a Florida newspaper:

http://www.okdemocrat.com/OKDemocrat/posts/61689.html


Perhaps this new charge by the Florida Attorney General's office aimed at the prosecutors is in fact an attempt to help Rush - in other words, single him out for special (preferential) treatment. It is Jeb's little fiefdom after all.

I still maintain that the only special treatment Rush is going to get is going to be to his benefit. I could be wrong but I don't think I am.


edit: clarification

[forgethell]

39. It was definitely my

understanding that it was the prosecutor's office. I believe the state attorney is considerably peeved at them about it.

[coldwatercyn]

47. PATRIOT ACT

How do you feel about the patriot act? I personally am more concerned about the patriot act and its consequences for America then some rich white guy getting more drugs than he should have and the way he is being treated. I am also more concerned about our President not wanting to ask for a full non-partisan investigation regarding WMDs and the war in Iraq with over 500 of our citizens dead. How can we trust this President to protect us when he may have taken us to war without the correct intelligence? I think you should be more concerned with these things than weather what is happing to Rush is a real threat to us. It’s hard for me to take your concern seriously when we have so much more at steak for our real future. What happens to Rush will only affect Rush.

[forgethell]

50. The Patriot Act is a different isssue,

not relevant to this discussion. To answer your question, however, I am against almost all increases in government powers. The Patriot ACt would therefore be among them. However, I am much less distured by accretion nof power that are acquired by a vote of Congress than by judicial and prosecutorial shenanigans. At least, there is a greater chance for debate and citizen awareness when Congress acts.

But I have a counter question for you. Why is it that most people are always playing the "rich, white guy" card? Sounds both racist and sexist to me. Rich? maybe. Martha Stewart and Kobe Bryant are both going to get a better shake than your average defendant. One is not white; the oother is not a 'guy'. What is the common denominator here?

[coldwatercyn]

53. Rush is a rich guy...feel better? I'll be adding stupid...

…"At least, there is a greater chance for debate and citizen awareness when Congress acts." …Were citizens aware of the cherry-picked intelligence used in the run up to the war? Much bigger issue. Rush, has the best defense money can buy. I won't worry about Rush, if Rush did nothing wrong than he should have no worries, he can take care of himself (he has plenty of dittoheads and GOPs in his camp). The over 500 and counting men and women killed in Iraq don't have such protection. To me your use of the fight for Rush's rights will have little to do with the general population. Has Rush always played fairly in his 15 hour weekly, one-sided radio show, he gets his talking points from the GOP and I don’t think he cares about anyone else’s rights but his own. His stand on illegal drugs us is well documented. If he was in so much pain and needed such mass quantities of drugs that he needed to get them from his housekeeper or from doctor shopping makes Rush a stupid man. People aren’t buying the fact that if as he says, he was in so much pain he had to take these high powered pills and then brag about what a good golfer he is and how much he plays. I think your energy should be put a better cause. The fact that you don’t see a bigger issue is worrisome to me. I think you have another agenda. You have seen, surely, that congress can sometimes only get intelligence that may have been cherry-picked. If you want anyone to take your argument seriously I suggest you should pick a better poster boy. Rush is a polarizing personality as is Clinton. Trying to make a point with either one of these WHITE GUYS is futile.

[forgethell]

60. Trying to make a point with either one of these WHITE GUYS is futile.

Obviously you are correct. But that is the only way the point can be made. We should look for fairness for those we despise as well as our friends. But don't worry, I'll still vote ABB. Does that allay your concerns?

As for bigger issues, I can see the forest, can you see the trees?

[Bandit]

49. Doctor shopping is a very serious crime ~ a felony

It is not just some slap on the hand offense. Many many people are not only in jail for this but have lost everything they own. Do you have any idea at all how many people are in prison for drug related crimes with no priors? Half our prison population is for drugs. Why should Rush walk when no else gets to?

[forgethell]

51. How many times do I have to say it:

I DON'T CARE IF RUSH GOES TO JAIL if he is convicted of something. I am opposed to the DA releasing information about plea negotiations. What is complex about this? I'm not speaking French here.

[coldwatercyn]

54. Is this your biggest worry for America?

What about the defense leaking information, is that okay?

[forgethell]

59. What does one have to do with the other?

No, I have other concerns as well. Pointing out that something else is wrong in the world somewhere still does not justify the wrong in front of us. Obviously, there are people as hypocritical on the left as on the right. NOTE: This is NOT a personal attack, but a general observation.

[Bandit]

56. If I remember correctly the information was released through FOIA

A request through the freedom of information act was put in by a far right group investigating whether or not Rush was being treated differently for political reasons. It was not just prosecuters deciding to release information for effect.

[rumguy]

32. yes - what he did was wrong, but I do not want to see him formally charged

He had a problem with prescription drugs, like many, many, people do. They get them prescribed, and then they get hooked on them.

He should not be charged...

That said, he is still a big, fat idiot...lol

[AlinPA]

33. I think the pig said that they should lock up people

like himself.

[rumguy]

37. this is not about what Rush has said in the past, it's about reality

[ParanoidPat]

41. "Reality" is that if YOU got caught.....

.....doing EXACTLY what Rush did, you would be in jail already! :evilgrin:

[Merrick]

35. all's I know is

I'm amending my organ donor agreement to prohibit my liver being given to that guy.

[Ksec]

40. He should be

He has huge power and his words are gospel to the rabid ones, he needs to be singled out and punished severely to show his followers that Rush was correct when he said drugg abusers should go to jail.

Anyone with so much influence over millions of people is a different breed, they need treated differently than a normal person. Therefore Rush should be made an example of. He should get jailtime, around 2 yrs sounds right.

[loudnclear]

42. The Patriot Act did away with privacy,,,don't you know that?

And when you use drugs or abuse drugs you are aiding the terrorists, remember.

[SharonAnn]

43. I certainly hope so.

[Kenneth ken]

44. NO

I think your original question is too narrowly focused. The simple fact is, pretty much every person of celebrity who can be smeared gets smeared. There is a long list of people tried in the newspapers/tanloids/television long before they ever get to court. Heck, even those tangentially associated get treated this way.

Kobe Bryant is being tried in the press, and so is his accuser.

Is it wrong? I think so. I could drop up a list of thousands of wrongs commited routinely in this country. Rush is just one more anecdotal item .

[forgethell]

52. Narrowly focused?

I don't think so. But you are certainly correct that people of celebrity get smeared at every opportunity. You are also correct that many of them are tried in the media before they ever face trial. You are also correct that this is wrong.

But, you know, when solving a BIG problem, you don't tackle it all at once, you break it into smaller parts. You might break them into smaller parts, and again, until you have parts that you can solve.

I don't say that I can 'solve' this particular problem. But it is the little piece that I am interested in right now.

[coldwatercyn]

55. Please bring our men and women home from this lie of a war

Why not make that your first cause.

[forgethell]

61. Can't I have two causes at the same time? n/t

[coldwatercyn]

62. I hope you have a lot of causes...

I just haven't seen you mention any other, please point them out to me if you will. I think a real issue for America is why did we really go to war? You can care about Rush's rights if you want but excuse me if I don't care or give him a second thought nor do I think how Rush is treated will impact our liberties.

[forgethell]

64. Well,

I didn't mention any of the others because this thread isn't about them. environmental policy, war against the Islamic world, terrorism, Israel/Palestine, the coming election. I've posted on many of them.

But this isn't about RUSH'S rights. It's about OUR rights. Every American's rights. This is so simple, I can't believe so many people keep misunderstanding it. It seems deliberate. If they can do it to RUSH, they can do it to ANTBODY. Including YOU.

[Eroshan]

57. for the amount of

evidence the government has against him if it were you or I in the same situation they probably would have seized all our property and froze or bank accounts. As it happens he is also under consideration of being charged with money laundering for the almost million in cash he withdrew during this drug induced stupor. He deserves to be punished more than he is. Maybe then the right would see how arcane the drugs laws are ad would do something about for the rest of society that may find themselves in a similar situation in the future.

[forgethell]

58. I agree that

he might be in jail. NOT the point. Should the prosecutor have disclosed details of plea negotiations with Rush's lawyers, or should henot have? This is the only question that I am asking.

Why does everybody keep avoiding the question?

[coldwatercyn]

63. Fine with me if...

the prosecutor discloses the details of Rush's plea negotiations. Turn about is fair play. Would you care so much if this was oh, let's say Al Franken? Now please show me what else you think is such a travesty. I've answered your question.

[forgethell]

65. Yes I would make such a fuss

if it was Al Franken. does justice depend on who the person is? If it does, how are we any better than the Repukes?

I don't care if the media, including Rush, give out details, if they can get them. Or, rather, I do. I think it's often unnecessarily cruel. But I highly object to government officials giving out this type of information, including leaking it to the media.

Also, what the hell does my positionn on other issues have to do with anything? I started this thread for one reason only, and I will resist, as best I can, all attempts to drag it onto some other topic.

Sorry

[FrankBooth]

66. I have not avoided that question

In fact, I've pointed it out to you on several threads already and provided a link- the prosecutors revealed the letters after a freedom of information act request by a florida newspaper. They did not just randomly reveal this information.

Suddenly, the Florida State Attorney General's office is interested?? Hmmm.. Who do they work for?? That's right, Jeb Bush.

I've said it before and I will say it again. The only way that Limbaugh is going to be singled out is if he is singled out for PREFERENTIAL treatment. And with the State Attorney General getting involved now, it looks as if help is on the way to old Rush.

Rush limbaugh is no victim, he broke the law multiple times, and is being treated as any high-profile person in this country would be treated. And if there is any justice left in this country Rush will go to the state pen.

[9215]

67. Who says DUers aren't restrained and compassionate?

We even believe in fair play for are avowed foes.

Personally I don't care what happens to Rush. He has spent his whole adult life blasting the very thing he is now depending on for metting out justice to him. It's kind of hard to feel compassion.

Like Bush he probably was not opposed to tribunals held in secret. Maybe we could have a tribunal (secret trial) with Al Franken, Randi Rhodes, and some Democratic politicians who he attacked relentlessly like Hillary and Bill Clinton.....no, wait a minute......they may be too fair.