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Cascadian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-04 01:19 PM
Original message
Poll question: Can America become Progressive?
It seems to me we are moving backwards ever so quickly in terms of everything from the environment, civil rights, and social issues. Ever since these neocons took over every blasted thing, we seem to be moving towards a theocratic fascistic serfdom state. (Is that a bit much?).

I wonder if America will ever can ever come back to more Progressive and just society? One that cares about the environment, does not start wars, equality for all, universal health care for all who need it, a leader in alternative energy sources, a state separated from the church, a land that does not forsake it's poor, and so on.

I think many people in certain parts of the country would rather stay backwards and don't care about changing their ways. I know that in my region I call Cascadia (Northwest), we are probably more progressive than any other parts of the country. However, some people here also want to drag us backwards and shove religion down our throats.

Can this right-wing trend ever be bucked?

Sorry, polls are turned off at Level 3.

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Terwilliger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-04 01:21 PM
Response to Original message
1. gotta go with "maybe" at least
any less and I might as well give up on it
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Iverson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-04 05:51 PM
Response to Reply #1
18. I'm just more stubborn.
I voted "doubtful," but I'm working to make it happen. I have to set a good example for my kids, after all.
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Cat Atomic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-04 01:24 PM
Response to Original message
2. If Bush is (re)elected, the chances of a big turn to the left go up.
An *eventual* turn. The labor movement grew out of oppression by big business and wealth. Bush could be the same sort of catalyst, given four more years.
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Tactical Progressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-04 01:27 PM
Response to Original message
3. If we win some elections we can
I voted yes, but this is going to require more than just a Presidential victory. We need the Senate and the House out of reactionary hands.
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Zero Gravitas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-04 01:29 PM
Response to Original message
4. Yes We Can
It may take us longer than other countries but we can get there in the end. Winston Churhill said something along the lines of "you can always trust the Americans to do the right thing, but not until they've tried all the other options first."
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Parrcrow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-04 01:33 PM
Response to Original message
5. I voted yes
America is not progressive but Americans are.

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laura888 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-04 07:12 PM
Response to Reply #5
20. well put! bravo! n/t
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demothinker Donating Member (193 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-04 01:34 PM
Response to Original message
6. I suppose it depends on exactly what you mean
At a national level, sure. If you're talking about all areas of the country becoming progressive on a state or local level, highly doubtful.
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BigDaddyLove Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-04 01:34 PM
Response to Original message
7. 'Cascadia'.........
Having lived in both Portland Oregon and Seattle Washington, I found both of these cities to be very progressive places, but once you go five miles in any direction out of the city proper I found that you run into some of the most consevative attitudes anywhere in the country.
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Cascadian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-04 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. It's especially bad east of the Cascades.
Once you cross over the mountains, you are in "God, Guts, and Guns" country. There is a bit more of us in the West. Especially in towns like Seattle, Olympia, Bellingham, Portland, and Eugene.

John
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Mrs. Overall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-04 02:24 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Agree with you! I live near Seattle
but not in Seattle and it is very white, fundamentalist and scary.
I voted "doubtful" because I think there are liberal islands here and there in this country, but the majority of people are "middle America" and they are white, Christian, not many are college graduates, not many keep abreast of domestic and international issues, and most have an innate "us and them" mentality. Open-mindedness is not a trait they are either familiar with nor they want to cultivate--something crucial to progressive thinking. I sometimes think liberals in forward thinking cities (like Seattle) are unaware of the attitude a few miles away. I have been frustrated by Washington State because I was under the impression that when I moved here it was progressive--environmentally, socially, etc... I have been amazed at the fact that where I live everyone burns everything in his/her backyard (leaves, trash, mattresses, tires) and the air is often smokey. People drive cars with blackish-blue exhaust pouring out, and in my children's school, mothers and faculty members meet on school property on hour before school starts to pray that they might "witness Jesus" in the classroom by their presence. The Native Americans in our area are treated like shit and people pretend they just aren't here, instead of celebrating their amazing culture. Chief Seattle is buried just a few miles from my home, but you would never know it. Also, our regional libraries are complying with the Patriot Act and now you have to present your card before you do an information search on the library computer, so that your search is documented.
Sorry for the Washington State rant, but I have been very disillusioned here. I think life is different for those who live in Seattle, but wow, a few miles away and it's a different planet!
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Cascadian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-04 05:05 PM
Response to Reply #9
15. You are right. It is a different world
Even Tacoma seems somewhat on the conservative side though there are small pockets of liberalism. The thing that I have noticed about Tacoma is that there sure are a lot of churches there. Anybody notice that?


John
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Cascadian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-04 05:09 PM
Response to Reply #9
16. You live near Poulsbo right?
I know that area very well! I lived in Port Orchard as a youngster. The Kitsap peninsula especially in the North is damned conservative. I have a sister that lives there with her family and she goes to the same church as Ellen Craswell. For those who don't know, she was the right-wing fundamentalist wacko that ran for governor of Washington in 1996 but Gary Locke beat her. North Kitsap was also a haven for white supremacists for a number of years too. It's a beautiful but scary place!!!


John
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Mrs. Overall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-04 07:23 PM
Response to Reply #16
21. Yes, North Kitsap County,
actually in the Kingston area. It is absolutely beautiful here, but so conservative. I have met a few liberal, open-minded people, but on the whole, most are very fundamentalist Christian. There are also a lot of military people--Bremerton Naval Shipyard, Keyport, Bangor Sub. Base, Whidbey Island Naval Air Station. And yes, there are tons and tons of churches! I have even seen several confederate flags on the back of pick-up trucks lately.
Thank goodness, though, for parts of Bainbridge Island and Port Townsend, both of which have very nice progressive, artist communities!
Nice to meet someone who knows Kitsap!!
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proud patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-04 02:30 PM
Response to Original message
10. I can't answer that poll ..... Americans are progressive
The government is not
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JohnLocke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-04 04:15 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. That's what I was going to say!!
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Jose Diablo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-04 03:06 PM
Response to Original message
11. Yes, and it would have already
If JFK, RK and MLK had not been assasinated
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LeahMira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-04 03:42 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. I'm not so sure it would have happened already...
Yes, and it would have already...
If JFK, RK and MLK had not been assasinated



For one reason, attitudes are hard to change. It's possible to enforce certain kinds of behavior, but in spite of all the legislation and all the time that's passed, there are still bigots around and they pass their poisonous ideas on to their children.

Another factor is our isolation. If Americans had to interact with other nations as much as the countries in Europe, Asia, and even South America have to, they would soon find out how disdainful most of the world's peoples are of out attitudes. Because this country is physically separated and because we have the power to remain economically and socially isolated, there is little opportunity for some attitudes to be challenged. Take notice of the reaction to France when they stood up to the U.S. about the Iraq invasion. "Freedom Fries" anyone?
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auburnblu Donating Member (536 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-04 03:20 PM
Response to Original message
12. When we move beyond selective affirmative action, maybe
Right now we too often still see a NIMBY "Not in my back yard" mindset when it comes to social progress. Many people think its great for everyone else but them. When we see say an English or History teaching department at Yale which closely mirrors the demographic make-up of the U.S., I will say we are progressive. Sadly enough selective affirmative action is the rule of the day.
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JanMichael Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-04 05:40 PM
Response to Original message
17. I voted yes because I don't want to see the alternatives.
The neo-Cons will shove us back to the Left as they alienate, break, attack, use and destroy, more people and things.

The interim might not be so much fun though...
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0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-04 07:06 PM
Response to Original message
19. I'd like to see it, but I kind of doubt that it would ever be the
progressive nation that I'd like to live in.
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Comadreja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-04 07:31 PM
Response to Original message
22. Do we want America to look just like Sweden?
I don't know, but how would a progressive America look without becoming a another Scandinavian clone? (I favor a progressive USA).
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ramapo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-04 08:35 PM
Response to Original message
23. We aren't/haven't been a Progressive society
This took me a long time to learn. Growing up in the '60s had me thinking that the US was a progressive country. We were making great strides in civil rights, the environment, and against the War.

Come the '70s and I wondered what was happening here. The protests ended, activism dwindled. Even the music turned to crap (disco). The popular thought was that everybody was just tired out from the '60s.

So the '80s become the me decade which made the '70s look all the better. The '90s? Kind of a waste. Not much progress unless you happened to be in the top 10%.

If you go and read history you'll learn that the '60s were indeed an aberration.

The US is today a long, long way from what you could term Progressive. Sure there's a segment of society, even some enlightened outposts, that fit the bill. But for the most part we have an apathetic, self-centered culture which is unable to face up to reality and is pandered to by politicians from both parties. This, coupled with a cultural arrogance that we're better off than anybody in the rest of the world, means that some tough lessons will have to be learned before there is a basic change in thinking that could point our society in a more progressive direction.
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-04 08:53 PM
Response to Original message
24. Hell,we're mocked on "progressive" board
how the hell do we stand a chance in the real world?
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