Reluctantly, I have concluded...we are being TOASTED..and

[TruthIsAll]

The Repubs (i.e the Corporations) have bought off the Democratic Party. One giant mole of an operation. Starting at the grass roots. Recalling our elected officials, stealing our elections, and not a voice of outrage.

There must truly be more DINOs than we can imagine. From County Election Supervisors, to Democratic "Advisors", to so-called Democratic media pundits, to Congress itself.

I have finally reached the tipping point. There are a few great Dems out there, but they are fighting an overwhelming force: Byrd, Kennedy, Graham, Kucinich, McDermott, Stark..

After all we have endured since Bush stole it, after all the damage done economically, morally and otherwise, for the leaders of our so-called opposition party to say "Go Easy on Bush" and to thrash Dean and Kucinich and anyone who dare speak the TRUTH, then we are truly TOAST.

Our party has been fatally compromised. I am 99% sure of it now.

I will be 100% sure if nothing is done about those Diebold one-arm bandits.

And that is all I'm going to say about this..

[Jacobin]

1. Kinda hard to deny it at this point

I looked the other way for years, believing the Dems were the only ones who could mount a successful opposition to the very RW...alas, they have joined forces, in many if not most respects. Including that exceedingly important one: Conquest of Nations.

[T Roosevelt]

2. Don't forget those Texas Dems

At least they're making a stand...

[JanMichael]

12. They are carving out a place in History.

Sure it may seem like just a crazy little blip on the screen BUT it's the beginning of a general revolt against the underhanded tactics that the repukers have come to adore.

Lose an election? Take it to a 5-4 SCOTUS.

Lose another election? Have a car theif spend $2.000.000 to recal Democracy.

Barely win a majority? Push through HIGHLY prejudiced redictricting and laws.

ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!!!!!

[Maine Mary]

3. Ummm, I disagree.

One giant mole of an operation. Starting at the grass roots. Recalling our elected officials, stealing our elections, and not a voice of outrage.

There must truly be more DINOs than we can imagine. From County Election Supervisors, to Democratic "Advisors", to so-called Democratic media pundits, to Congress itself.

Starting at the grass roots? You mean your local elected Dem officials? Are you implying it's all one huge conspiracy starting at the bottom levels of Gov? :shrug:

[lynndew2]

17. I will respond Mary

It isnt at the grass roots. But here you and the rest might say bye bye to me. It is the fact that NO ONE is speaking of what to do..........period. Dems will not win on a hate shrub vote. They will not win on a liberal platform as history has shown. And most of the pres-elects havent shown any way to change what they hate bush for. They just attack. That is fine and should be but, if we offer nothing to replace it then its a losing battle. bush has the confidence of the people and name calling and accusations arent sticking. Why cant our canidates offer ideas instead of just negativity?

[Devlzown]

4. There is one dominant party in America.

The Money party. There are a lot of democrats (and republicans) who realize this now that it's never been clearer. The only way we're going to survive is to demand fair and clean elections and demand that our government and its officials truly uphold and defend the Constitution. All other things are trivial in comparison.

[whoYaCallinAlib]

11. Very insightful.

I can't argue with your analysis.

[Ouabache]

24. The Money Party- one party- crosses Dem and gop lines-

That is basically what Noam Chomsky says, but the way I read him a true 'movement' of people acting and doing what needs to be done can capture either party. We could do what we want to do through the Republican Party, if we really decided to do it. (ugly as that sounds)

[Devlzown]

27. It doesn't matter.

I don't really see the democratic party's leadership as anymore receptive to our ideas than that of the republican party. Sure, the democrats might pay more lip-service publicly, but does that really change things? Quit paying attention to what politicians say -- look at what they do. They're there to act, not make speeches. There are two ways to react to a rapist. Daschle, et al, choose to lay back and try to enjoy the experience. Vote for people who yell fire and resist!

[cthrumatrix]

31. I call it "corporatism"...all about making money

Ploiticians bought and paid for and corporations write the rules...tough to win.

[geomon]

33. Are you ready to do something about it??

:)

[SummerGrace]

5. You forgot to mention

we are being skewered and toasted.

[DagmarK]

6. It's not too late!!! It isn't! But we're close to "too late"

If you are genuinely concerned about the corporate takeover of this country, PLEASE read this thread.......

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=110&topic_id=378&mesg_id=378

[opihimoimoi]

8. When its about the TRUTH and what is right for us, its NEVER TOO LATE.

Even the slaves had HOPE, even those who are at the bottom, they too have hope/

All it takes is the Triggering Mechanism to wake them up.

The Pubs job is to squelch, squash the Trigger.

Our job is to find it, nurish it, and use it.

[Dhalgren]

7. So, let's say you are right (and I believe you may very well be),

what are our options for action? Do we try to form a party that will be a true voice of the people? Do we buy guns and wait for the inevitable? Do we turn off our brains and place bets on which big-eyed teenager will be the new American Idol?

I for one would suggest a new party; not a radical one, but one that reflects Jeffersonian democracy and a New, 21st century Deal. But it will take years to form from the grassroots up and we may not have years.

[Devlzown]

9. I like your idea.

We could call it the Constitution party -- make those bastards state publicly the problems they have with the Constitution. In the mean time, it would be beneficial to pit each side against the other. If they don't work together, they'll destroy each other. If they work together, they'll show their antagonism to be a farce.

[Art_from_Ark]

36. There already is a Constitution Party

And its candidate for president in 2000 was Howard Phillips

http://www.constitutionparty.com/party_history.htm

[mitchum]

20. A new party won't help when democracy is dead...

and I don't care for "American Idol"

[gristy]

10. Has any Dem candidate acknowleged or stated

any position on the ongoing corporate takeover of our government?

I think two things have to happen for this problem to be solved:

1. A candidate who understands the problem and can communicate a solution needs to be elected.

2. The voting public needs to understand the problem and why its solutions are to their benefit.

I am woefully pessimistic...

[DemSigns]

13. I think Howard Dean can and

will.

[ibegurpard]

19. As a Dean supporter

let me say that we can't wait for a hero, whether we perceive it be Dean or someone else. The responsibility is ours. From what I've seen on DU in the year and a half since I started coming here, there are many, many people who are taking that responsibility. Organizing efforts to lobby congress (even when they don't seem to pay attention), researching voter fraud, keeping everyone informed as to what's going on...the list is endless. And that's just what I see on DU...think of what's going on that we're not aware of. There is always hope as long as there are people like the ones I mentioned working tirelessly to make things better.

[Devlzown]

14. Kucinich comes closer than anyone else. But.

The son-of-a-bitch won't stand up for himself. I was so mad at him after that Hardball interview, I could've spit. I wasn't mad at Matthews -- I expected as much from that jackass -- but Kucinich just let Tweetie lead him down that primrose path. Does the guy view himself as a martyr or something?

[are_we_united_yet]

15. I agree as well

I don't want to but I do

[RichM]

16. More & more people are realizing that this is how things stand.

It's terrible, of course, but nonetheless quite true.

For anyone with open eyes & a desire to see the truth, last week's performance by Clinton on Larry King should have been a tipping point. Clinton lent his prestige & influence to the cause of DEFENDING the usurper G.W.Bush, who told baldfaced lies to the American people, for the purpose of waging a criminal war. Clinton's response: DEFEND HIM!! Hey, no problem! Incredible.

The accurate way to see the situation is to realize that while there are a few good Dems on the party's liberal wing, most of the party -- especially in the Senate -- is a bunch of rotten cowardly collaborators.

[mitchum]

18. We really are at the end of the 200+ year American experiment in democracy

There really is only one solution

[Gringo]

21. I wish I could argue with what you're saying

but I can't. But I'm still going to give 2004 one final hard push and try. If Dumbya wins, I'm Alec Baldwin. moving back to Japan and changing my citizenship.

Anyway, I propose we put sentiments like this in a lockbox, be super-positive, and work for a win in '04. If the worst happens, then all bets are off. There will be large-scale out-migrations of people, and probably a lot of desparate leftists talking about the "r" word. I have little kids, and I don't want to stick around for that kind of a mess.

[gristy]

22. should I start working on my Canadian immigration papers

next summer (just in case, as you say) or would that be too late?

I also will not be able to take another 4 years of this. It's emmigrate or revolt. And I'm a chicken.

[hang a left]

23. I know things look grim

but there still is a little hope. I know it is an uphill battle. Look at how long it has taken to get people to just ? bush. Gosh I read your post and it makes me depressed, we can't give up now, we are just getting traction

[ErasureAcer]

25. That's why I'm a green.

They haven't been compromised, they actually stand for something.

I love Kucinich's positions but come on, he isn't even that liberal. 15% cut from the pentagon? We have a 400 billion pentagon annual budget(more than 50% of our entire budget as a nation). 40 times the ammount of the "rogue" nations of the world(Syria, Iran, North Korea, Libya, etc...). If we cut 50% from out budget at the pentagon we would still have the largest pentagon spending and have education for everyone, healthcare for everyone, proper government retirement care and so forth...and still have money left over.

The Democrats have been hijacked by Clintonian politics. They don't stand for anything but in the "grey". Never really trying to push the envelope but rather letting the republicans right the letter leaving the dems to only put a stamp on it for approval.

In fact, I may reconsider voting for Kucinich...I think Sharpton might actually have the most liberal platform from the Democratic candidates.

Truly, Democrats here on this board have already been sucked into the clintonian style politics. We shouldn't be compromising on anything. You can not compromise on the death penalty and people's unalienable right to "life". You can not compromise on not investing in child's minds. You can not compromise making people slaves for more than half their life by making retirement ages 69. You can not compromise human health and care for those in need. Basically you can't compromise on anything that is of importance.

I'd rather go down a loser standing for what I believe in, than a winner supporting rubbish republican-lite policies.

I ask everyone to stand for something and not be afraid to lose standing for what you believe in. We can make a difference but first we must realize that our leaders(the current democrats in control setting the agenda and party platform) are a bunch of compromisers that really aren't out for the world good but only their own political gain.

Make a difference and don't be afraid to lose.

[Ardee]

35. Absolutely, EA!

I like the tone of that post. I am not a Green but I am leaning more and more to the idea that a viable third party is the way to keep the liberal agenda on the table.

Further I also think that Kucinich is the only candidate I would actually vote for unless Gore reenters the race that is. While those two may not be the leftist ideal they are receptive to and responsive to the left. Dean is a sham, a man whose entire political history showshim to be a centrist and hasnt the courage to run as he is but "reinvents himself" to gain the WH. Thanks but no thanks Ive had all the duplicitous crap I can take.

As to those who speak of leaving this country should Bush win again, goodby, good luck and Im sorry your allegiance to your country was overweighed by your personal selfishness.

[maggrwaggr]

26. That's why we have to fight!!

Seriously, it's up to us to take responsibility and deal with this.

We can't depend on anyone anymore.

The media isn't doing their job, the government isn't doing their job, the party sure isn't doing their job.

But we can still get out there and make things happen.

There is NO REASON we can't shut this entire country down and make sure the truth is heard.

If enough of us do it, all at once, they can't stop us.

[Ani Yun Wiya]

32. Right on the money.

A nationwide general strike is where it needs to start.
That way, we the people change the topic, tenure and tone of the current political discourse.
That means no work, no school, no nothing till we are heard.

Better yet, all 230 million of us who did not vote for * should go to DC and make sure they hear us.

Perhaps 11/22/03 would be a good date!

Bet that anniversary doesn't see much airtime this year.

[leftofthedial]

28. wait a minute, go easy

on those democrats.

[Ani Yun Wiya]

29. Interesting thoughts...

The solution may be in two parts:

1. DELETE the message put out by the *crew and his appeasers in the Democratic Party.
2. REPLACE with a LOUD call to reverse the present condition.

Realize that the current message and how it is broadcast is based on a very, very fragile thing.

[MSchreader]

30. Welcome to my world

n/t

[deutsey]

34. As fired up as I've been about Dean

I keep telling people that I have grave doubts about the next election...do the Corporatists have it in the bag already?

Still, I do believe that you've got to do what you can do in the cause of truth, hope, justice, and love. Plenty of people before of us have taken a stand for this cause even while they knew they would probably lose. Without trying to sound pollyanna, I believe noble failure is better than a corrupt victory or doing nothing at all.