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tomkertes Donating Member (62 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 12:00 PM
Original message
News on the Draft Issue
Now is the right time to prepare for the fight for freedom from the draft. The draft will be very unpopular with many Americans, which is one reason to start organizing against it now. The draft is also an effective way to talk about the moral issues around the war. While the draft may make sense to start again in peacetime, during an illegal and immoral occuation is the wrong time to advance a draft. The biggest question is what will happen right after the next terrorist attack in the US? Will the Bush adminstration use an attack to advance the draft?

News on the youth draft and the skilled worker draft:

A draft - with options:
http://www.nctimes.com/articles/2005/01/11/opinion/comm...

Snowcroft: If we can't send 500,000 troops, spend $500 billion and agree to resume the draft, then the conflict should be "terminated.":
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/09/opinion/09dowd.html?o...

Selective Service prepares alternative service programs:
http://www.beliefnet.com/story/158/story_15893_1.html



News on the poverty draft and the backdoor draft:

Republican Leader Frist Says U.S. Forces Stretched Thin in Iraq:
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000103&sid=a4p...

Military recruiters find reluctance over combat hinders duty
http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/news/nation/10...



News on current soliders who are morally refusing to participate in the occupation:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/gate/ar...
http://www.whittierdailynews.com/Stories/0,1413,207%7E1...

News on the immoral and illegal occupation of Iraq:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4155375.stm
http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/01/10/opinion/edherb.h...
http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGB0UL87R3E.html
http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0106-26.htm



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atreides1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 12:09 PM
Response to Original message
1. The Sheep and Kool-aid Drinkers will get in line, Initially.
Initially it will be accepted by the sheep and kool-aid drinkers, the only ones who will rise up against are those who have always been against this war.

I predict that local draft boards in certain areas will attempt to give a free pass to the well connected, this could possibly start
a draft riot that would make the riots of the Civil War look like a tea party. And draft boards in other areas will try to make the process as fair as possible and use the regulations currently on the books.

Joining the Guard or the Reserves is no longer a way to avoid being sent into combat, seeing as how at least 40% of the troops on the ground in Iraq are members of the Guard and Reserves.
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sui generis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 12:11 PM
Response to Original message
2. I'm trying to think of when I think a draft would be okay
it would be if we were attacked overwhelmingly by another power, on our own soil, or attacked by several.

Where are the fucking weapons of mass destruction? Why are we in Iraq again?

How is it that I am not as responsible for the deaths of 100,000 Iraqi civilians, yet every German was responsible for the death of every jew in WWII?

Yes, there will be no draft of my children. "Over my dead body", well, and a lot of theirs too. The moment my freedoms as an individual are gone, I will no longer be an American. How's that for "free market" patriotism!

I fucking hate this administration.
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tomkertes Donating Member (62 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. I think a draft started during peace time would help keep the peace
but a draft started during wartime only helps the war effort.

If we had a draft during peacetime, then everyone would share the burden if a war were acted upon.
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sui generis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 04:17 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. but a peacetime draft violates the idea of a volunteer army
what would keep the peace would be not going to war for Weapons of Mass Destruction that don't exist.

Not responding to the war lobby and Halliburton and the oil lobby to form an energy policy that requires war is another thing we could try before a draft.

I understand what you're saying from a practical viewpoint but an involuntary draft is an emergency measure and shouldn't be the norm, especially in peacetime.
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forgethell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 12:29 PM
Response to Original message
3. Why would we need a draft
in peacetime?
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tomkertes Donating Member (62 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. The function of the army is to defend and deter from attack. n/t
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forgethell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. You avoided the question.
That can be done with a volunteer force. why would we need a draft in peacetime?
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fedsron2us Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 06:25 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. Volunteer standing armies have always been preferred
Edited on Tue Jan-11-05 06:29 PM by fedsron2us
by powers such as Britain where the ruling class have traditionally feared insurrection from the masses. The authors of the Declaration of Independence saw them as an instrument of tyranny. In order to counteract this threat the citizens of the United States were given a constitutional right to bear arms. Given that some of the policies of the current US President bear more than a passing resemblance to his namesake George III I wonder whether he would really instigate the draft as this would might politicise the populace and make future PNAC wars harder to justify. Far better to exploit the liberal lefts distaste for military service as means of screwing funds out the people to fund a mercenary force. It is going to be far more likely to carry out the orders of its paymasters and, of course, can be turned on dissenters at home when required.

edit for typos
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forgethell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 09:41 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Actually, until
after WW2, a standing professional army was the preferred mode for the USA, too. The threat of Communist imperial aggression led to retainng the conscripted army. This led our leaders into such adventures as Vietnam.

The end of the draft was one of the greatest things that ever happened, forst, becasue it did limit the adventurism in government circles, and second, coercion is always antiethical to liberty.

What I don't understand is that despite all the gossip and discussion about the draft, the only people that have actually publically proposed reinstating it are Democrats (Rangel). This seems to me to be the exact opposite of what Democrats and liberals should be about.

Frankly, this may have played some small part in the recent election debacle. Always assumming that fraud wasn't the reason.
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patdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 03:50 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. Great web site you have...and I agree we should ONLY have a draft
during peace time..then when the question of war did appear there would be a LIVELY DEBATE and only if deemed NECESSARY would the public at large accept the WAR. Whereas, as you said, a draft during wartime is only enlisting cannon fodder...

2 year service .. not 4 and NO exemptions..can ONLY have NO exemptions with a 2 year obligation, otherwise it would be too distruptive to ones life.

Oh, by the way, Welcome to DU! :hi:
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sui generis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-05 10:02 AM
Response to Reply #7
11. couldn't disagree more
there are some ideas that radically change what I think America stands for. If it changes too much, it's no longer America, and I would take my skills, assets, abilities and children to a better and more world-mature country.

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