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You asked for my evidence, Mr Ambassador. Here it is

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Sinistrous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-04 12:56 AM
Original message
You asked for my evidence, Mr Ambassador. Here it is
In Iraq, the US does eliminate those who dare to count the dead

Naomi Klein
Saturday December 4, 2004
The Guardian

David T Johnson,
Acting ambassador,
US Embassy, London

Dear Mr Johnson, On November 26, your press counsellor sent a letter to the Guardian taking strong exception to a sentence in my column of the same day. The sentence read: "In Iraq, US forces and their Iraqi surrogates are no longer bothering to conceal attacks on civilian targets and are openly eliminating anyone - doctors, clerics, journalists - who dares to count the bodies." Of particular concern was the word "eliminating".

The letter suggested that my charge was "baseless" and asked the Guardian either to withdraw it, or provide "evidence of this extremely grave accusation". It is quite rare for US embassy officials to openly involve themselves in the free press of a foreign country, so I took the letter extremely seriously. But while I agree that the accusation is grave, I have no intention of withdrawing it. Here, instead, is the evidence you requested.


Read the gruesome, sickening details here: http://www.guardian.co.uk/Columnists/Column/0,5673,1366...


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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-04 01:09 AM
Response to Original message
1. dang!
ball's in his court!
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Hekate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-04 01:16 AM
Response to Original message
2. America is becoming what it fears most
I wonder what happens when a nation (in this case, ours) accumulates really bad karma?

I hope to God we can turn this around someday.

Hekate
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sarahlee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-04 01:25 AM
Response to Reply #2
26. This nation was formed with bad karma
What is happening now is simply more repetition of the county's entire history.

Remember how the white men took it over in the first place?
Remember the slaves brought in to make white men rich?
Remember the resources and people of Africa and Central America plundered for US gain?

You can't outrun karma.
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-04 01:18 AM
Response to Original message
3. Boom!
and that's called reporting...
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Ima Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-04 01:19 AM
Response to Original message
4. wow
Bet that's one letter, the ambassador wishes he hadn't mailed off.




What a come back.
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BadGimp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-04 01:23 AM
Response to Original message
5. I'm sorry but..
.. we suck

We really do.
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pa28 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-04 12:36 AM
Response to Reply #5
24. Is it any wonder they hate us in Europe?
We so richly deserve it.
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SweetLeftFoot Donating Member (905 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-04 07:00 AM
Response to Reply #24
27. We don't hate you in Europe
We just hate lots of things about lots of people in America. But not all of you.
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Dirk39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-04 10:27 PM
Response to Reply #24
33. What I don't understand about the USA and even DU....
is that the people care more about the U.S. soldiers, who are simply criminals, than about the people they kill.
A few thousand U.S. soldiers, who kill for Bush and his comrades, still count more than their victims. The same did happen in Vietnam, when more than 2 million innocent people were killed by U.S. soldiers. I simply don't understand this.
I was born in 1964 in Germany and to this very day I'm happy about every german soldier that was killed in WWII, if it did only help to stop Hitler and Ausschwitz.
The U.S. soldiers don't "serve their country", for whatever that means, they are simply stupid killers and that's all.

Hello from Germany,
Dirk
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-04 01:31 AM
Response to Original message
6. it`s getting harder and harder to
"support the troops" when they commit war crimes in my name. i know they are my next door neighbor , my friends kids,or my kids friends but those who died during ww2 may have died in vain.
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Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-04 01:35 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. If you support a victim of domestic abuse,...
,...you have to support these people. Do so by reaching out to them and educating them about what is happening, offer them support, and accept their choice thereafter.
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Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-04 01:32 AM
Response to Original message
7. OMG. I suspected,...but had no evidence to believe that,...
,...the faux CNN report about operations was to ascertain who was still there and their locations.

I am just,...speechless.

I just can't say,...I just cannot say,...
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this_side_up Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-04 01:44 AM
Response to Original message
9.  damn
It looks like instead of No Child Left Behind, it
is No Muslim Left Behind (alive)



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VegasWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-04 01:50 AM
Response to Original message
10. Too many leaks in the damn, bushco can't control them all anymore.
Things will be coming out left and right. A US Ambassador
criticizing a foreign press over something he knows damn well is
true. Unbelievable!
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toymachines Donating Member (782 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-04 01:56 AM
Response to Original message
11. the more i read, the more i am sickened
how is it that such things are carried out in our name? the only conclusion i can come to is that we are led by a fascist tyrannical regime, one which is blatently and hypocritically lying, stealing, and committing mass crimes. this information needs to be spread by whatever means necessary. everyone i have explained the actual situation to, not the candy-coated "we almost promise to tell you part of the truth" media's explanation, every person has been sobered by this information. and i am sure they went home or to work or somewhere and told others, word of mouth is spreading this. if the media does not do its job, of spreading information (vs. its current role of entertainment), then the people must change their source of information. which is what this whole site is about. now we just need to get such open places of information exchange to become a major media outlets, somehow.
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Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-04 03:12 AM
Response to Reply #11
16. Problem is,...the shock,...
,...of being betrayed and used,...among those who are simply doing their best to survive and want to believe their government is serving their interests.

I still, to this day, remember the shock of being betrayed,...although getting to that reality took me some independent research. It was,...life-changing.



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Moderator DU Moderator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-04 02:04 AM
Response to Original message
12. Kick
:kick:
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bluedonkey Donating Member (644 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-04 02:09 AM
Response to Original message
13. Just as they silence the voices
In Iraq,they will silence the voices in this country one day.
The storm is coming.
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TomClash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-04 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #13
21. Heads up
It's already here.
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Rush1184 Donating Member (478 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-04 02:34 AM
Response to Original message
14. That is why I read the Guardian...
They seem to be one of the few news papers who are actually doing there jobs.
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Lone_Star_Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-04 02:48 AM
Response to Original message
15. Be careful what you ask for Mr Ambassador
you just might get it.

She did wonderful job of putting that ass in his place.
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mhr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-04 04:17 AM
Response to Original message
17. Seeing Bush's Ass Getting Rhetorically Kicked Is Very Satisfying.
eom
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-04 07:18 AM
Response to Reply #17
29. would rather see him PHYSICALLY kicked back to TX!!
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LynnTheDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-04 04:26 AM
Response to Original message
18. UK media refuses to roll over for the bush admin.
GOOD.
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SweetLeftFoot Donating Member (905 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-04 07:06 AM
Response to Reply #18
28. Parts thereof
You will notice that while many UK papers (let's not forget that Rupert Murdoch owns the biggest circulation tabloid and broadsheet) have indeed fallen to the Bush agenda, many remain fiercely independent.

What is more encouraging is that parts of the British establishment (the judiciary) are also maintaining their independence.

The refusal of Britian's libel court to countenance the Daily Telegraph's smear of George galloway this week (a disgraceful effort with the smelly pawprints of a Rovian-inspired mudsling all over it) shows that there is still hope yet.

Of course, British justice is still to officially recognise that paratroopers went a rampage and short dead 14 innocent people in Derry in 1972 so let's not start praising the Brits too much.
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CHIMO Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-04 09:28 PM
Response to Reply #28
31. Don't Forget The BBC
That has been neutered.
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SweetLeftFoot Donating Member (905 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-04 06:38 AM
Response to Reply #31
32. True enough
But thankfully Channel 4 maintains a healthily sceptical line.
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scarletlib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-04 10:51 AM
Response to Original message
19. Thank goodness for the Guardian
What the bushco regime doesn't seem to get is that they can kill all the witnessess they want but in the end the Iraqi people still know what is happening to them and this will just increase their alienation and determination to fight.

The admin can try to keep the lid on a pressurized boiling pot but eventually it will blow off.
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TomClash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-04 03:20 PM
Response to Original message
20. Why is this surprising?
21,000 US soldiers have been treated for serious injuries at Landstuhl and no one in the US cares. If the American people don't care about their own, why should they care about Iraqi medics, clerics and journalists?
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NIGHT TRIPPER Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-04 03:54 PM
Response to Original message
22. Are we are we citizens of a country that knows no boundaries?
And the news media claims "moral" issues got chimp re elected? :toast:
Todays American Propaganda machine makes Nazi Germany's look like an 8th grade English class project.
(Yes, that's right I compared something we're doing to the Nazis !)

Why do we have to get these stories exclusively from foreign sources?

I guess we are all complicit by doing nothing to stop it.
Why don't our country's citizens insist that the media bring us the real news?.

What about organizing and using financial leverage to boycott these news organizations that scrub stories?
Money is the only thing that matters to the Media organizations that are backing the current regime.
They are likely gaining billions in profits (tax cuts, payoffs,promises--> {retirement with positions in the Carlyle Group}) so the only way to compete with this is to get them to somehow lose money by filtering the stories.

But do you think most people even care or are even aware that anything's up?
My Republican brother seems to thing that it's the foreign "murkin bashing" sources that are "twisting" the truth.

Things like "silencing" witnesses must be exposed by the American news sources or people like my brother will never believe it.
...guess that's what they're counting on
:puke:



.
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Jack Rabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-04 05:51 PM
Response to Original message
23. The point is awarded to Ms. Klein
Suck on it in The Hague, Rummy.
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Eloriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-04 01:03 AM
Response to Original message
25. Oh, dear, that was tough reading
I didn't expect it to be, going in.

And then this (chilling!):

Mr Ambassador, I believe that your government and its Iraqi surrogates are waging two wars in Iraq. One war is against the Iraqi people, and it has claimed an estimated 100,000 lives. The other is a war on witnesses.
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Blue_Tires Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-04 09:20 PM
Response to Original message
30. response from the ambassador??
LOL
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