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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 03:23 PM
Original message
Contempt for gays unites black and white christians
Sat Nov 6, 8:00 PM ET
By Cynthia Tucker

Last Tuesday, there was at least one thing about which blue states and red states, black Americans and white Americans, Northerners and Southerners could agree: Gays and lesbians should be denied the right to full citizenship. Constitutional amendments to ban same-sex unions appeared on the ballot in 11 states and passed easily -- from Michigan, Ohio and Oregon, to Georgia, Mississippi and Arkansas.

It was a triumph for bigotry based on the Bible. From conservative pulpits around the country, pastors had implored their flocks to go to the polls and vote against the "abomination" of homosexuality. They claimed that preventing gays from getting married would shore up the institution among heterosexuals -- though it is not clear how. <snip>

And they weren't just white voters. Homophobia oozes across lines of color, linking black America with white in a common contempt masquerading as morality. It is deeply disappointing to see black churchgoers enthusiastically wield the Bible as a bludgeon against another group, since Scripture was also used against us, as a justification for slavery, in the 19th century. <snip>

Some 50 to 100 years from now, no doubt, some Christian churches will find themselves apologizing for their contemptuous treatment of gays and lesbians, many of whom are fellow Christians. For now, however, the conservative Christian church -- black and white -- has forsaken two of Christ's most profound injunctions: "Love thy neighbor as thyself" (Matthew, 22:39) and "Judge not, that ye be not judged" (Matthew, 7:1).

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=1317&nc...


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Unstuck In Time Donating Member (411 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 03:39 PM
Response to Original message
1. I guess the struggle for black civil rights is over now...
... now that african-americans are speaking the language of the privileged class: "Those people" don't deserve the same rights as "the rest of us," and that's the way god says "it's supposed to be."

Memo to black crackers: It's a GLBT thing. You wouldn't understand.
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KenCarson Donating Member (170 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 03:46 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. it's not news that pale people don't have a lock on being bigoted.
i mean...is that news?
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noiretextatique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 11:33 AM
Response to Reply #1
13. black gays and lesbians
Edited on Mon Nov-15-04 11:39 AM by noiretblu
please tell me where we fit into your discussion. thanks.
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Unstuck In Time Donating Member (411 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. Didn't you hear? There's no such thing.
Just people who've made a sinful choice, and can be healed through regular church attendance.
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noiretextatique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. well...black gays and lesbians
Edited on Mon Nov-15-04 12:36 PM by noiretblu
certainly are not offended by the comparsions made between that civil rights and this civil rights struggle...it's all the same.
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Unstuck In Time Donating Member (411 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. I think black gays and lesbians are people who...
... know better than anyone else what an ugly thing discrimination is.
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rocktivity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 03:47 PM
Response to Original message
3. Please ignore this poll/story/article
as it is a product of the Bush empire's Faith-Based Reality Manufacturing Program. Details here.

:headbang:
rocknation

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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 04:38 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Thanks RN. That WAS a great NYT article on Bushista hostility...
... to reality-based policy. I remember reading it when it first came out. (Unfortunately, it's now in the NYT pay-per-view archives.)
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noiretextatique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 11:32 AM
Response to Reply #3
12. thank you...the black commentor has an article about this
disinformation. as if black people could possible MORE homophobic than...
c'mon folks...of course there are black homophobes, but black people are still voting democratic: 88% for kerry, unlike some other homophobes.
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grannylib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 06:39 PM
Response to Original message
5. Please see post in this forum re: sermon excerpt. I also wonder if
any of these folks got a chance to hear Toni Morrison and Cornell West discuss this issue, and how they are firm in their belief that GLBT issues are indeed civil rights issues.
Horrid that HATRED should be the thing uniting Black and White "Christians."
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Blue_Tires Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 06:51 PM
Response to Original message
6. she's right (i've always been a tucker fan)
there has LONG been an unholy alliance between RW fundies, and more moderate black churches
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megatherium Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 07:50 PM
Response to Original message
7. There is some sign of progress here,
in that many politicians and religious leaders in the anti-gay-marriage movement take the trouble to say that their goal is to protect marriage not attack gay people. Most of them claim not to be bigots, and very few public figures on the right seem to advocate recriminalizing gay sex. In fact, some politicians on the right have indicated that they are not against civil unions, including Cheney and Bush.

Of course much of this is insincere; you can walk into any evangelical Christian bookstore and find books explaining how homosexuality is sinful and unhealthy, and asserting that gay people can change. Yet, I believe we have reached an age where gay people are visible enough, both in popular media and in the lives of individual families, that attitudes are softening.

In my own family, even though my brothers and my mother are not what you would call pro-gay, their attitudes have changed. One brother is much more accepting of gay people because of the gay people he met studying to become an Episcopal deacon; and meeting my cousin in NYC and her partner and their (incredibly cute) 5 year old daughter has helped as well. Attitudes have become a bit more abstract: 'homosexuality is wrong, but she's our cousin and we love her'.
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msgadget Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 02:29 AM
Response to Original message
8. Yes!
There's a more progressive religious alliance and a fantastic sermon on gay rights: http://www.clnnlc.org/marriage.html
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George_S Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 04:46 AM
Response to Original message
9. Is this an issue?
Since only 22% voted on "moral" values, what percentage of that 22% was Black?

While it may be true that the G/L spokespersons need to re-frame their efforts into more universal language, it may not be the issue this article implies.

Mm, and maybe more universal language isn't what is needed. Maybe a call for specific rights would be better: insurance, wills, equal tax breaks and hospital visiting rights. Things like that.
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noiretextatique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 11:30 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. per CNN, 88% of african-americans voted for kerry
http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/pages/results/states/U...

i believe that's a 1-2% decrease from what gore got in 2000. as to how blacks voted on the anti-gay amendments...that's another story.
but, in terms of the morality BS, it seems black voters are more concerned about people being killed than two men kissing.
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colonel odis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 08:26 AM
Response to Original message
10. i wish they'd stop using "christians" when referring to people like these.
"churchgoers" or "pharisees" might be more accurate.
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 11:39 AM
Response to Original message
14. Contempt For "Christians" Unites Black and White Democrats
When asked about "Western Civilization", wasn't it Ghandi would said it would be a good idea?

And as for Christianity, has it ever been tried--recently?
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noiretextatique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 11:52 AM
Response to Original message
15. my family extended family lives in texas...they are black
Edited on Mon Nov-15-04 11:52 AM by noiretblu
the religion there is stifling to me, but it is deeply embedded in every aspect of their lives. they are probably more politically progressive than many of you here, but they are socially conservative. they are learning to deal with their homophobia because of the family memebers that have come out (me and a few other cousins, and a couple of their long-time friends), but it is more of a struggle for some than others. i believe they would all be against gay marriage, for religious reasons, but many would likely support civil unions. and their would a diversity of opinions, with some arguing from the "how can we, of all people, deny anyone civil rights?" perspective, and with some on the other end of the spectrum: "it's an abomination."

religion is a BIG thing to many african-americans because, historically, the church was not only the major instiution in those communities, it was also the at the center of the centuries-long struggle for human rights in this country.

the loudmouths will get press, and as someone else mentioned, this is a part of the propoganda of selling bush's mandate. the most important mnumbers to keep in mind: 88% of african-americans voted for kerry.
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