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cal04 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 12:03 AM
Original message
About Those Election Results
Electronic voting proved to be, as critics warned, a problem. There is no evidence of vote theft or errors on a large scale. But this country should have elections in which the public has no reason to worry whether every vote was counted properly, and we're still not there. In Franklin County, Ohio, one precinct reported nearly 4,000 votes for President Bush, although the precinct had fewer than 800 voters. In Broward County, Florida election officials noticed that when the absentee ballots were being tabulated, the vote totals began to go down instead of up. Voters in several states reported that when they selected John Kerry, it turned into a vote for President Bush.

These problems were all detected and fixed, but there is no way of knowing how many other machine malfunctions did not come to light, since most machines do not have a reliable way of double-checking for errors. When a precinct mistakenly adds nearly 4,000 votes to a candidate's total, it is likely to be noticed, but smaller inaccuracies may not be. There is also no way to be sure that the nightmare scenario of electronic voting critics did not occur: votes surreptitiously shifted from one candidate to another inside the machines, by secret software.

It's important to make it clear that there is no evidence such a thing happened, but there will be concern and conspiracy theories until all software used in elections is made public. Voters who use electronic machines are entitled to a voter-verified paper trail, which Nevadans got this year, so they can be sure their votes were accurately recorded.

The outrageous decision by Warren County, Ohio, to lock down the building where votes were being counted is an extreme example of another serious problem with the elections: a lack of transparency. In some states, reporters are barred from polling places. The wild rumors about Cuyahoga County, Ohio, where the official results appeared to include an extra 90,000 votes, were a result of its bizarrely complicated method of posting election results, which is different in even- and odd-numbered years. The nation needs to develop an election culture in which officials in every part of the country automatically keep things as open - and as simple - as humanly possible.

rest of the article
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/11/14/opinion/14sun1.html?o...

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Imperialism Inc. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 12:08 AM
Response to Original message
1. Beautiful.
All the pressure is having the desired effect in the media and the populace. Problem is, we all know the Republicans will just ignore it :(
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proudbluestater Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 01:01 AM
Response to Original message
2. What a difference a day makes...
Yesterday they were still talking "conspiracy theories," I believe.

Conspiracy theories is repeated so damn often in exactly those two words, I'm convinced they are Rove's "talking points."
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michaelwb Donating Member (285 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 08:08 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. What they don't get
What they don't get is that we'll probably never find a "smoking gun" like a memo from W or Rove ordering fraud. Instead the Repubs are smarter than that.

They just make sure the "right" people are in the "right" places and that the conditions are just "right" for fraud. But no one orders or talks about anything. Of course these right people are ambitious and loyal, and they know if they succeed in a big way they will be rewarded. Overall, it's far more sinister.

It's more like something the RICO laws are set to handle, than the normal sort of criminal thing these folks are used to.
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shance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 01:36 AM
Response to Original message
3. Nevada? Paper trail and they are one state under investigation*.
Paper BALLOTS folks. No substitutes. Paper trails sound legitimate, however,

Paper trails are the same as any other trail...who knows where they may lead.....?
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Moderator DU Moderator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 01:50 PM
Response to Original message
5. Kick
:kick:
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Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 08:23 PM
Response to Original message
6. Evidence of fraud at central e-voting certification lab
www.libertywhistle.us
www.blackboxvoting.org

Americans Need Not Accept E-Voting, nor Presidential Results
-Among circumstantial evidence, a common thread: e-voting machines dont meet rule of law in vast areas of US
-Grounds to reject 2004 results already exists
By Dan Spillane
The Liberty Whistle

(SEATTLE) 11/14/04 While plenty of questions remain after the 2004 elections concerning electronic voting equipment, so far evidence of fraud is said to be circumstantial. Therefore, the media has jumped to the conclusion that nothing was awry during elections, and has been running duplicate stories, more or less claiming internet activists are engaged in conspiracy theories.

Yet activists have only reviewed facts and figures, most of which are spewed out by computer equipment. Absent paper ballots, however, the reliability of these figures is completely and utterly dependent on the diligence of pre-certification for said equipment; this certification ensures elections are carried out under the rule of law, and give equal protection to e-votes and actual ballots. And therein lies a profoundly big, and ugly, fly in the 2004 election results ointment--a fly that quickly trounces the all clear signal echoed in the US media.

You see, it turns out the manufacture and pre-certification of e-voting equipment is largely centralized in the US; moreover, direct (rather than circumstantial) evidence of insecure software, and outright fraud has surfaced recently, related to the central certification lab for US voting equipment. What this means in practical terms is that votes in large e-voting counties all over the US arent being given the equal protection and consideration as those in counties with paper ballots. In short, the alleged equivalence of electronic records with paper ballots is a sham, in not one, but many areas of the US. Add into the mix, e-voting equipment and certification has never survived (let alone been submitted to) a proper legal challenge what were left with is a moral, ethical and legal obligation to throw out the 2004 election results.

It only follows then that any state which includes 2004 e-voting results in a tally cannot certify final results until it is demonstrated that the underlying diligence in e-voting certification is equivalent to the paper ballot, and one person, one vote. But if such a claim is made in coming days, Americans have absolutely no reason to accept itwithout the rule of law, US election results simply arent free, fair, nor democratic.

So while there may not be direct evidence that Bush stole the election, as rumored on the Internet--there is also no direct evidence that he won either, for the very same reason. As they say in computer circles, garbage in, garbage out. Certainly, the worlds largest democracy needs more than unsubstantiated electronic numbers to name a president. It follows then, US and world citizens have the right of rejection, protest, and direct action-- as they see fit--until the rule of law in US e-voting elections is established.
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Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 08:31 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. kick
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