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skip fox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-04 04:50 PM
Original message
SBV-Gate: The File, second prototype. (Send more links & stories, please.)
Edited on Tue Aug-24-04 05:12 PM by skip fox
SBV-GATE: THE FILE


Table of Contents

I. Introduction and History of SBV for Truth
II. Recent accounts of other swift boat vets contradicting the SBV for Truth
III. Changes or Qualifications in Stories of individual SBV for Truth
IV. Points of collusion between Republicans and the SBV for Truth

each section separated by a line of asterisks.



*************************************************************



I. Introduction and History of Swift Boat Veterans for the Truth:

Overall story:

http://www.realcities.com/mld/krwashington/9455159.htm


History of SBV:

Website registered April 14, 2004. The following is a good historical overview
of their history with hot links. Good site!:

http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=Swift_Boat...



Overview of SBV ( a great site with hot links):

http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=Swift_Boat...



(Last night (23 Aug.) I heard a former Viet Nam POW on Fox (Hannity
and Colmes) say that he was at a meeting "last month" where he "heard"
about Kerry from "Kerry's fellow officers." Were they flying vets in
(other SBVs $and POWs and letting O'Neill pump them full of his
twisted obsessions, including the story of "Kerry's master plan"
(i.e., to launch himself into politics and the public eye thru service
in Vietnam and then public renunciations of that service)?
Inquiring into their methodologies of recruitment we might find out
quite a bit that would be damaging (just to show the coordination
of a few men roping in and trying to brainwash others would be
damaging because it would focus on the contrived nature of their
organization.

This link indicates that they were formed on or before May 4 of
this year:

http://swift1.he.net/~swiftvet/article.php?story=200407...


Kerry's official take:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,1280,-443...



Best job of debunking the SBVs for "truth" wingnut-by-wingunt:

http://swiftvets.eriposte.com /





*************************************************


II. Recent accounts (during the last week) of Swift Boat Vets who were
actually THERE! (What a concept):



1.) William Rood:

<Snip>

The commander of a Navy swift boat who served alongside
Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry during the Vietnam
War stepped forward Saturday to dispute attacks challenging
Kerry's integrity and war record.

William Rood, an editor on the Chicago Tribune's metropolitan desk,
said he broke 35 years of silence about the Feb. 28, 1969, mission that
resulted in Kerry's receiving a Silver Star because recent portrayals of Kerry's
actions published in the best-selling book "Unfit for Command" are
wrong and smear the reputations of veterans who served with Kerry.

Rood, who commanded one of three swift boats during that 1969 mission,
said Kerry came under rocket and automatic weapons fire from Viet Cong
forces and that Kerry devised an aggressive attack strategy that was praised
by their superiors. He called allegations that Kerry's accomplishments were
"overblown" untrue.

. . .

Rood's recollection of what happened on that day at the southern tip
of South Vietnam was backed by key military documents, including his
citation for a Bronze Star he earned in the battle and a glowing after-action
report written by the Navy captain who commanded his and Kerry's
task force, who is now a critic of the Democratic candidate.

<snip>


http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/082204Y.shtml

and

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/22/politics/campaign/22s...




2.) Robert Lambert:

<snip>

Three Navy men won Bronze Stars for their actions that day: Kerry,
Thurlow, and radarman first class Robert Eugene Lambert, a petty
officer in the boat captained by Thurlow. The citation for Lambert's Bronze
Star--previously undisclosed but obtained today under the Freedom of Information
Act from the National Personnel Records Center in St. Louis--repeats the description
of the incident included in the citation for Thurlow's Bronze Star: "all units came
under small arms and automatic weapons fire from the river banks."

. . .

The difference was that Kerry, who had tactical command of that
particular operation, had talked to Droz and me beforehand about not
responding the way the boats usually did to an ambush. We agreed that
if we were not crippled by the initial volley and had a clear fix on the location
of the ambush, we would turn directly into it, focusing the boats' twin .50-caliber
machine guns on the attackers and beaching the boats. We told our crews about
the plan.

. . .

The first time we took fire--the usual rockets and automatic weapons--Kerry ordered
a "turn 90" and the three boats roared in on the ambush. It worked. We routed
the ambush, killing three of the attackers. The troops, led by an Army adviser, jumped
off the boats and began a sweep, which killed another half dozen VC, wounded or
captured others and found weapons, blast masks and other supplies used to stage \
ambushes.

. . .

We called Droz's boat up to assist us, and Kerry, followed
by one member of his crew, site. Some who were there that day
recall the man being wounded as he ran. Neither I nor Jerry Leeds,
our boat's leading petty officer with whom I've checked my
recollection of all these events, recalls that, which is no surprise.


<snip>

http://www.thenation.com/capitalgames/index.mhtml?bid=3...





3.) Pat Runyon

<snip>

Trotwood, Ohio - An Ohio factory worker who was with John Kerry on a
dangerous night mission 36 years ago in Vietnam said he has no doubt Kerry
was grazed in a firefight and deserves his first Purple Heart for a combat injury.

. . .

Runyon said Kerry was wounded after one vessel (sanpan) tried to avoid
an inspection.

"Lt. Kerry said, 'I'm going to pop a flare, and when I do, I want that engine
started,' " Runyon said. But the outboard would not crank. Meanwhile,
the sampan's crew steered it to the riverbank, and people started running
on the shore. Runyon said shooting broke out.

Somehow, Kerry's weapon stopped firing. Runyon thinks he ran out of
ammunition. He said Kerry bent down to pick up another gun and got hit
in the arm.

"It wasn't a serious wound," Runyon said, and Kerry was able to start
shooting again. When the firefight was over, Runyon said Kerry told him
all he felt was a "burning sensation."

<snip>


http://www.cleveland.com/search/index.ssf?/base/isele/1...




4.) Jim Russell:

<snip>

Three things that are forever pictured in my mind since that day over 30 years
ago are: (1) The No. 3, 50-foot long, Swift boat getting huge, huge air; John
Kerry thought it was about two feet. (He was farther away from it than I). I
think it was at least four feet and probably closer to six feet; (2) All the boats
turning left and letting loose at the same time like a deadly, choreographed
dance and; (3) A few minutes later, John Kerry bending over his boat picking
up one of the rangers that we were ferrying from out of the water. All the time
we were taking small arms fire from the beach; although because of our fusillade
into the jungle, I don't think it was very accurate, thank God. Anyone who
doesn't think that we were being fired upon must have been on a different river.

<snip>

http://www.telluridegateway.com/articles/2004/08/20/new...




5.) Wayne D. Langhofer:

<snip>

Wayne D. Langhofer, now an employee at a Kansas gunpowder plant, told
the Washington Post in yesterday's editions, "There was a lot of firing going
on, and it came from both sides of the river."

Reflecting on the battle in the Bay Hap River, which resulted both in Kerry
being awarded the Bronze Star and receiving a third Purple Heart, which
allowed him to end his combat tour after just four months, Langhofer
said he distinctly remembered the "clack, clack, clack" of enemy AK-47s,
as well as muzzle flashes from the surrounding riverbanks. Langhofer manned
a machine gun aboard PCF-43, the boat that was directly behind Kerry's.

<snip>

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2004/08/23/s... /




6.-8.) Jim McCann, Rich Baker, and Del Sandusky (with Jim Rusell, #4, above):

<snip>

In a conference call with reporters arranged by the campaign, three
Navy Swift boat officers who served with Kerry 35 years ago but
who said they have not been in touch with him for years defended
his service and his bravery. Rich McCann, Jim Russell and Rich
Baker said Kerry served honorably and took issue with questions
raised by the group Swift Boat Veterans for Truth about his
commendations.

"He was the most aggressive officer in charge of Swift boats,"
Baker said. "With no disrespect to anyone out there, the whole
Swift boat operation took courage and guts every time you
stepped on those boats. But John Kerry was one step above the
rest of us."

. . .

In Pennsylvania, crewmate Del Sandusky said at a news conference
that he witnessed the combat missions for which Kerry received Silver and
Bronze stars and two of his three Purple Hearts. "He deserved every one
of his medals," Sandusky said.

<snip>


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A26519-20...




*********************************************


III. SBV liars for hire who have recanted or qualified their original story, or whose
specific stories have been directly challanged:


a.) Alfred French in the SBV ad implies he was present at the incident, but . . .

<snip>
French said he is relying on the accounts of three other veterans who
were friends of his at the time. A fourth veteran with whom French was
acquainted corroborated their accounts.

"I was not a witness to these events but my friends were," said French,
who was awarded two Bronze Stars during the war. "I believe these
people. These are people I served with."

One of the men is Larry Thurlow. . . .

<snip>

http://www.oregonlive.com/search/index.ssf?/base/front_...




Larry Thurlow's citation, containing references to incoming fire which Thurlow's
affidavit denies:

<snip>

But Thurlow's military records, portions of which were released yesterday to
The Washington Post under the Freedom of Information Act, contain several
references to "enemy small arms and automatic weapons fire" directed at
"all units" of the five-boat flotilla. Thurlow won his own Bronze Star
that day, and the citation praises him for providing assistance to a
damaged Swift boat "despite enemy bullets flying about him."

. . .

"I am here to state that we weren't under fire," he said. He speculated that Kerry
could have been the source of at least some of the language used in the citation.

<snip>

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A13267-20...





*********************************************


IV. SBV-for "truth" and Republican collusion:

A schematic showing basic associations (and some contradictions):

http://nytimes.com/imagepages/2004/08/19/politics/campa...

and

<snip>

How the group came into existence is a story of how veterans with longstanding
anger about Mr. Kerry's antiwar statements in the early 1970's allied themselves
with Texas Republicans.

<snip>

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/20/politics/campaign/20s...


and:

<snip>

"A series of interviews and a review of documents show a web of connections
to the Bush family, high-profile Texas political figures and President Bush's
chief political aide, Karl Rove," the Times reported."Several of those now
declaring Mr. Kerry 'unfit' had lavished praise on him, some as recently
as last year.

<snip>

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5771731 /



<snip>

WASHINGTON, Aug. 20 /U.S. Newswire/ -- Public records reveal that two of the
people in the new "Swift Boat Veterans for Bush" television ad are Republican activists
. . . . This is just more proof that Bush's Republican allies are the ones behind this
disgraceful smear of John Kerry (news -web sites)'s military record. It's pretty clear what's
going on here. It's no wonder the Bush campaign refuses to condemn this smear.


<snip>

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=669&nci...


and


<snip>

Mr. Bush's campaign confirmed on Saturday . . . that one of the veteran in that advertisement
(SBV ad #1) was a member (of) the Bush campaign's veterans' advisory committee.

<snip>

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/22/politics/campaign/22s...



and as DU's Mayberry Machiavelli pointed out in a post:

Ken Cordier was on Bush campaign staff right up until his appearance in the
second Swift Boat commercial, proving that Bush campaign denials of connection
with the smear campaign are disingenuous (long word for "lies"):

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/08/21/edwards.swift ...



Du's own Skinner is doing a state-by-state search for collusion between local and state
Republican committees and the SBVs in terms of rallies, links and ads on web-sites and selling
of SBV materials, incl. Unfit for Command.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...


such as . . .

<snip>

"Bush Campaign Caught Promoting "Swift Boat Vets for Truth" While National
Campaign Denies Coordination, Campaign in Florida Promotes Rally

Tallahassee -- On the same day that the Bush-Cheney campaign repeatedly
denied coordinating attacks with the anti-Kerry group "Swift Boat Veterans for
Truth," the Bush-Cheney campaign in Florida was caught promoting a rally
in Gainesville for the group

<snip>

http://atrios.blogspot.com/2004_08_15_atrios_archive.ht...


Du's own Skinner is doing a state-by-state search for collusion between local and state
Republican committees and the SBVs in terms of rallies.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...


And the Bush campaign even had a rally with the SBVs!!!!

http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,1280,-443...

and DU's fine posts and members . . . on the job with cameras!! Wow: Check it out:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

http://www.gainesville.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/2...



And the Official Minnesota Republican Website links the SBV ad:

<snip>

Webpage "Prepared and Paid for by Republican Party of Minnesota" Found
to Be Linking to the Swift Boat Ads. In Minnesota . . . an official Republican Party
webpage was recently found to be linking to the Swift Boat Ads. The webpage goes
on to . . . question . . . John Kerry's service in Vietnam: SWIFT VETS ARE
GETTING TO KERRY; DID HE LIE ABOUT HIS SERVICE, repeatedly, in an
effort to embellish it? DID HE TAKE CREDIT for engagements fought by other men . . .?
The website also contains a link to purchase the book produced by Swift Boat
Veterans for Truth, "Unfit For Command".

<snip>

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=669&nci...

Or even the right-wing affiliations (O'Neil with Charles Colson in the Nixon WH) of those
making the charges as these:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

http://www.washingtondispatch.com/article_9865.shtml


The similarity between the attack on Kerry and those on other Bush
opponents, including McCain, suggests on-going and systematic
collusion:

<snip>

"It's amazing how similar this type of attack is to the pattern
of attacks I have seen over two decades -- in some cases
involving Bush's campaigns, in other cases they involved
campaigns in which Karl Rove was a participant,'' said
Wayne Slater, senior political writer at the Dallas Morning
News, who has covered Bush since his early days in Texas
politics and is author of the book "Bush's Brain,'' about Rove.

"In every case, the approach is the same: You have a
surrogate group of allies, independent of the Bush campaign,
raising questions not about the opponent's weakness but
directly about the opponent's strength,'' Slater said. "In every
case it works."

<snip>


http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2004/08/24...
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bloom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-04 04:56 PM
Response to Original message
1. they do all that and then say - "OK let's get rid of 527's"
as if that was their plan all along.

Not "OK - let's stop the lies" - because lie is all they want to do and they don't want anyone having the means to effectivley expose them.
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brentspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-04 05:50 PM
Response to Original message
2. Deleted -- sent to your mailbox (n/t)
Edited on Tue Aug-24-04 05:52 PM by brentspeak
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