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jbfam4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-17-03 11:52 AM
Original message
Bill Press: Republicans out to steal another election
Edited on Sun Aug-17-03 11:53 AM by jbfam4
WorldNetDaily: Republicans out to steal another election

http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=34108

In other words, I cheat and steal at golf. Which is what Republicans do at elections. If they don't win the first time, they keep doing it over and over again until they do win. California's not the first time. It's just the latest.

It started, of course, in Florida. We all remember that mess. On election night, it was not clear who won, Bush or Gore. Networks first declared Gore the winner, then Bush, then nobody. Bush led by a narrow margin, but thousands of butterfly ballots were in dispute. Thousands more were up in the air over hanging, dimpled or pregnant chads. The only way to resolve it was a full, statewide recount or at least a recount of the most screwed-up county tallies.

And that's exactly what the Florida Supreme Court was set to order. Until the Republican-dominated U.S. Supreme Court stepped in, shut down the recount, and stole the election for George W. Bush: parachuting an unelected president into the White House. That was public election theft No. 1.

Public election theft No. 2 is now taking place in Texas. Like every other state, Texas redraws its electoral districts every 10 years, based on the federal census. Three years ago, Republican and Democratic legislators were unable to agree on a plan, so a panel of federal judges took over and adopted a new reapportionment plan giving Texas 17 Democrats and 15 Republicans in the U.S. Congress.


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chesley Donating Member (197 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-17-03 12:00 PM
Response to Original message
1. Actually,
in florida, there was never a request for a state-wide recount by the Democratic Party, or by Al Fore's campaign. Which may not change the thrust of your argument, but we should get our facts straight
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mikeysnot Donating Member (965 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-17-03 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Actually
The dems did not have to request, it is state law to automatically do a recount when the difference is less then a certain percentage of margin.... but the RW spin machine went into motion and branded Gore a sore loser and flooded the airwaves, and polling places will agent provocateurs to stop the actual recount... so the gore the spineless one was pushed into requesting only a few counties to do an recount, his biggest mistake of the election.
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chesley Donating Member (197 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-17-03 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. The recount
was done, Bush still had more votes. That when the fan hit the shit and things went to court. Look, It seems to me that it is time to get over the 2000 election. Regardless of who is right, or wrong, Bush is in the office of President. He is in there legally, the Supreme Court says so. It seems hypocritical to applaud the court when it goes our way, and claim it is illegitimate when it does not. Personally, I would like to see the courts have much less power. But the only way to reverse the 2000 election is to win the 2004 election. all the rants will not change that. The past is past, look to the future. Flame me if you want to, if I cared, I wouldn't express my opinions here.
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-17-03 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. BULLSHIT
a statewide recount showed GORE WON.
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chesley Donating Member (197 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-17-03 12:40 PM
Response to Reply #5
10. Wrong
first, there was no official hand state-wide recounts. Newspaper recounts are bullshit. Second, even most of thoses gave bush more votes. If I recall correctly, only one, using the most liberal standards gave Gore a victory. I may be wrong about this, but I think not. These all took place long after GWB took the oath of office. There never was an established way to count the votes. That sorta means, in my opinion, that the Republican chosen way wuld have as much weight as a Democrats or a Greens or Pat Buchanan's. But in the end, THERE IS NO PRESIDENT GORE. The facts on the ground (or in the White House) trump both you opinion & mine.

If there had been no court challenge to the Florida election results, there would still be a President Bush. So challenging the results was a no-lose proposition for the Democrats. When the US Supreme Court stopped the recount, the Dems had lost nothing that they had before the issue went to court. So why all the angst? There is still 2004, the world hasn't ended.
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dfong63 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-17-03 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #10
15. read "the best democracy money can buy"
by Greg Palast. Bush lost FL, lost the election, and only the most blatantly partisan supreme court in history put him in the oval office.

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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-17-03 06:17 PM
Response to Reply #10
23. Al Gore and Joe Lieberman *won* the election in 2000.
Al Gore kicked Shrub's pants off in Florida by ~46,000 votes. He beat Shrub nationwide be more than half a million votes. Had Florida been awarded to Al Gore as the voters in Florida wanted then Al Gore would have won by 45 (46 without the abstention) electoral votes.

"More than 113,000 voters cast ballots for two or more presidential candidates. Of those, 75,000 chose Mr. Gore and a minor candidate; 29,000 chose Mr. Bush and a minor candidate. Because there was no clear indication of what the voters intended, those numbers were not included in the consortium's final tabulations."
http://www.nytimes.com/2001/11/12/politics/recount/12VO...

~46,000 is the margin that Al Gore *actually* won Florida by. *That* was the intent of the voters. Not some measly ~200 votes. Also, *without* those ~46K votes Al Gore still won according to Florida law (had SCOTUS not *unconstitutionally* interfered).
Sources:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/onpolitics/electio...
http://slate.msn.com/?id=2058793
http://www.geocities.com/dearkandb/supremeqanda.html
http://www.the-rule-of-law.com /
http://www.ericblumrich.com/gta.html

Also, Al Gore got more popular votes that any other presidential candidate in the history of the United States, except for the time that Reagan won 49 out of 50 states' electoral votes. This was done while fending off an attack from the left *and* while fighting against a heavily biased media.
Sources:
http://www.mediachannel.org/views/whistleblower/palast....
http://www.gregpalast.com/detail.cfm?artid=181&row=1
http://www.dailyhowler.com /
http://www.democraticunderground.com/cgi-bin/duforum/du...
http://www.mediawhoresonline.com /

Count ballot as a vote if vote is indicated, but marked incorrectly. Example
Vote is indicated and marked correctly, but the candidate's name is also written in. Example
Ballot condition is agreed upon by at least two judges.
Count ballot as a vote if the chad is at least dimpled. Example
Final Tally: Gore won Florida by 107 votes.

Count ballot as a vote if vote is indicated, but marked incorrectly. Example
Vote is indicated and marked correctly, but the candidate's name is also written in. Example
Ballot condition is agreed upon by at least two judges.
Count ballot as a vote if the chad is detached from one or more corners. Example
Final Tally: Gore won Florida by 72 votes.

Count ballot as a vote if vote is indicated, but marked incorrectly. Example
Vote is indicated and marked correctly, but the candidate's name is also written in. Example
Ballot condition is agreed upon by at least two judges.
Count ballot as a vote if the chad is fully detached from ballot.
Final Tally: Gore won Florida by 430 votes.
Source: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/onpolitics/electio...

For the count we've been keeping since Election Day, these are now the final numbers for a state-wide cumulative media recount.
http://www.unknownnews.net/election2000.html#count
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-18-03 09:37 AM
Response to Reply #10
27. THE MEDIA DID THE RECOUNT
AFTER THE FACT. GORE F***ING WON.
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QuietStorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-17-03 04:33 PM
Response to Reply #5
19. OMG even this is still being disputed???

I thought at least here it would common knowledge that election was stolen and Gore won the popular vote. who are these posters here disputing this. Better yet why are they posting here?
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catzies Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-19-03 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #19
30. Because it changes the subject. That's the true intent.
The electoral difficulties we are facing now stand on their own merits, and are in no way repeating the problems of past elections.

This is a whole new different batch of shite. And we are in trouble again, and have to fight this battle anew.
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QuietStorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-17-03 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #5
20. scratch my above message

that gore won is not being contested here it is just a nice discussion of if he did or did not request a recount and who the media outlets reported. My apologies to all I spoke hastily.
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IthinkThereforeIAM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-17-03 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. "The Supreme Court say so"...

... what a great laugh on a Sunday morning.
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chesley Donating Member (197 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-17-03 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. Doesn't seem to me
that it is a laughing matter. Regardless of the will of the people, the way things are working in the United States right now, when the Supreme Court speaks things are settled as far as politics are concerned. That being said, I thing Supreme Court justices should be elected, or at least appointed to set terms. If they interfere in political matters, then they should pay a politicl price.
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liberalmuse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-17-03 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. Big Lie right here!
Edited on Sun Aug-17-03 12:37 PM by liberalmuse
Nope. Do your research. If ALL the CLEAR votes were counted, Gore would've won. Ballots were disqualified by Republicans that were clearly marked for Gore, but, on the other hand, there was a county where absentee ballots that arrived shredded and disfigured in the mail were completely re-done by election officials. Shockingly, most of these favored Bush. They couldn't accept those ballots that had a box marked for 'Gore' along with a write-in for 'Gore'--this CLEARLY states the intent of the voter, but they could allow Republican election officials to decide what a voter stationed in Germany wanted, even though his ballot was destroyed. It is a proven fact that the Republicans twisted and distorted state law to work in their favor. On the other hand, they completely discounted the law when they saw it would work in Gore's favor. Fact: Gore handily won Florida. Fact: The Republican party in Florida and beyond took steps to ensure the election ended up in favor of Bush, BEFORE, DURING, and AFTER the election, even though he had fewer votes.

On edit: had to clarify
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meow2u3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-18-03 07:37 PM
Response to Reply #7
28. Many Republican voters overseas bragged...
when they learned they were able to get away with stuffing the ballot boxes. Some sneered at Dems when they found out their illegal votes counted, but the legal votes of Democrats were tossed in the scrap heap.
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MasonJar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-17-03 03:08 PM
Response to Reply #4
14. Gore vs. Bush in Florida and Tenn
According to my daughter who is an attorney, the Supreme Court had no right to interfere in the state of Florida recount. If Bush won in the state, which is clearly in doubt, it is because Jeb and Katherine purged the voter rolls of 10's of 1000's of legitimate voters, most of whom just happened to be democrats. They were incidentally not back for Jeb's re=election either. Last I read many have still not been reinstated; this is clearly illegal and certainly immoral.
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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-17-03 04:08 PM
Response to Reply #4
18. No recount was ever done by Florida Law - not even one
No review of over and undervotes for intent -that such a recount is required to do - was ever done.

Ms Harris declared, then redeclared, accepting non-recounts as recounts, and we went to court. And the Court found that no recount had been done and orderred such a recount - and the USSC affirmed that this was the correct thing to do - but get it done in 2 hours, even though on 12/12 there were a few days before 1/6/01 reading of the results of the electoral college count.
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Boreas Donating Member (110 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-17-03 05:00 PM
Response to Reply #4
22. chesley, chesley
I have to admire your willingness to be flamed for such an outrageous tacit defense of the Supreme Court's partisan 5-4 decision. I am at least wondering about your sense of propriety, if not patriotism. They are political criminals. Their action attacked the Constitution by nullifying a legal Presidental election. Where you been boy? Their actions are never going to be acceptable. Why would any American want to forgive or forget such egregious treason?
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kainah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-18-03 01:39 AM
Response to Reply #4
25. No, * went to court almost immediately to stop the recount
maybe you should get YOUR facts straight. And several counties never did do their recount. Had the recounts been done as they should have been, Gore would have won easily with the overvotes.
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Wednesdays Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-19-03 08:53 AM
Response to Reply #4
29. Deja vu
Look, It seems to me that it is time to get over the 2000 election.

In short, "Get over it." Hmmm...where have I heard that phrase before, and from which party?
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gully Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-17-03 12:21 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Gore did request it...
Edited on Sun Aug-17-03 12:22 PM by gully
"On Monday night, Gore made a brief, nationally televised plea for fairness, accuracy and patience."

"That is all we have asked since Election Day: a complete count of all the votes cast in Florida," Gore said. "Not recount after recount as some have charged, but a single, full and accurate count."

http://www.detnews.com/2000/politics/0011/28/-154731.ht...

And this interesting footnote;

"Gore has repeated those themes in the weeks since the election, and time is running out for him to sell his message. A new poll by CNN/USA Today/Gallup found that a growing number of Americans think the vice president should concede the election to George W. Bush -- 56 percent, compared with 46 percent last week. The poll was taken after Florida officials declared Bush the winner there Sunday night, but before Gore's televised address. An ABC-Washington Post poll, taken in the same timeframe, found six in 10 saying Gore should concede."

It seems the Green party and the Republican party want to imply that Gore never requested such a thing. :shrug: Go figure?


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tsipple Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-17-03 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. With 20-20 Hindsight...
...Gore and the Democratic Party (paging Ed Rendell!) should have demanded a thorough statewide recount the morning after Election Day. But, in fairness, a lot of people thought that was logistically impossible. Now we know otherwise.

That said, it wasn't Gore's fault. The U.S. Supreme Court blew it.
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gully Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-17-03 12:39 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Did the people fail Al Gore or Did Al Gore fail the people?
Edited on Sun Aug-17-03 12:40 PM by gully
hmmmmm...

OK, nevermind... :freak:
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Spoon Donating Member (401 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-17-03 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #3
12. Whatta mess it was.
Edited on Sun Aug-17-03 01:21 PM by Spoon
Anyone have a link to a timeline of some sort? My memory is blurry. Did Gore formally request a statewide recount, or just those couple disputed counties? A statewide recount would have been viewed as fair, I think, and may have pushed him over the top.
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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-17-03 04:03 PM
Response to Reply #1
17. The FSC and the USSC orderred/ran over/undervote statewide recounts
until the USSC killed it so as to give a Title 7 Comgressional law precedence of the Constitution.

"never a request for a state-wide recount by the Democratic Party" - true - but so what - that is what the court demanded as the correct procedure, with over and under votes - and that is what the media count did - and that count showed Gore won under the 8 methods they expored of determining overvote and undervote intent. There was no method underwhich Bush won.

Actually there was a method underwhich Bush won - I believe it is called law breaking - but Theft of election works for me.
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paulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-17-03 01:49 PM
Response to Original message
13. Mr. Press left out the redistricting battle in Colorado
Another blatent theft, which is even now winding it's way through the courts.
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kainah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-18-03 01:45 AM
Response to Reply #13
26. He also left out the impeachment
It didn't start in Florida. It started with Newt's little idea to impeach Clinton and then Gore (although it was never clear to me how he planned to do that) so that Newt could be president. A truly audacious proposal but that's what the impeachment was all about -- making Newt president.
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realFedUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-17-03 03:44 PM
Response to Original message
16. and pundits kid about Clinton's "mulligans"
like that was serious stuff compared to what Republicans
do to take top leadership positions.
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billbuckhead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-17-03 04:56 PM
Response to Reply #16
21. I heard Gore had 30,000 more overvotes.Those who forget history are doomed
to repeat it. Never forget the fixed Florida election. This was the wrong turn that has haunted the world the last few years.
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PATRICK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-18-03 01:20 AM
Response to Original message
24. Actually
Edited on Mon Aug-18-03 01:25 AM by PATRICK
THis is VASTLY understated. First there is manipulation of everything, emphasize everything, to focus on the power grab. The methods are subsequently manifold, multiplying hundreds of times the methods of CREEP, such as when Nixon asked Segretti for ten methods of sabotaging Dems by Tuesday. Every state including DINOS, RINOS, systems, redistricting, vote machines, traditional fraud, traditional media domination, ex-CIA and FBI ops using black bag tricks against democracy in America, cgaracter assassination, use of DOJ, corporate piracy and protection racket raking in millions to blow away the cramped late campaign of the Little Lord Fauntleroy Democrat Polly Purebreads, the ability to stage and shout about events long enough to blast the Dem campaign into the the back pages until November. War. Terrorism. You name it, they can twist it like they do the soft spine of America. If they have to add assassination they will.

Get real. The problem is getting all the adolatrous fantasy dwellers not yet broke in America to admit what can easily be seen, but is weakly presented by small tentative and disporganized voices of flabbergasted, fearful opposition. And who do you look to? Even the business world which should see the threat to most of them and their whole system are too entrapped by loyalty to a pseudo-ideology based on ephemeral numbers and self-protection like cops who hate Internal Affairs and rally around their dirty brethren- only much worse. They do not even acknowledge the rogue monsters in their midst ravaging the very infrastructure of the globe and capitalism. The Dems desperately want to ignore anything which might also wipe out the the vestiges of public trust in democratic myths and ironically doom their efforts to step in and "do it right". And so are nearly collaborators. The Corporate Pravda jellyfish, three monkey media. The "blessed" but non-participatory populace lost in the smoke and the blackout of democracy. Entertained by the glamour of the lies for small satisfactions and misdirected emotions.

Anyone feel like saving themselves and the world? Be a hero for your own best interest. Earn points with the actual GOD. Become a real American, not just a flag fan for holidays, or rageaholics for herded fascist mobs led by dumb scum and old money frat boys.


Even the analogy with the illusions of the Matrix cannot coax the incredibly hurt and threatened sane remnant of a once prosperous and hopeful people to see what has happened in three years and why.

Evil is pouring out of the WH like a blocked sewer, preceded by a perfumed odorant of lies.
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