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Our Darkest Days Are Here (CBS Andy Rooney)

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HereSince1628 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 05:50 AM
Original message
Our Darkest Days Are Here (CBS Andy Rooney)
Edited on Tue May-25-04 06:21 AM by HereSince1628
If you were going to make a list of the great times in American history, you'd start with the day in 1492, when Columbus got here.

The Revolution when we won our independence would be on the list.

Beating Hitler.

Putting Americans on the moon.

We've had a lot of great days.

Our darkest days up until now have been things like presidential assassinations, the stock market crash in 1929, Pearl Harbor, and 9-11, of course.

The day the world learned that American soldiers had tortured Iraqi prisoners belongs high on the list of worst things that ever happened to our country. It's a black mark that will be in the history books in a hundred languages for as long as there are history books. I hate to think of it. . .

On edit...the link:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/05/20/60minutes/roo...
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ayeshahaqqiqa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 05:54 AM
Response to Original message
1. I agree
The torture that went on at Abu Ghraib and possibly also at Guantanimo are the most shameful things I can think of that the US has done since the massacre at Wounded Knee.

BTW, heresince1628, did your ancestors sail to Massachusettes at that time? If so, we may very well be cousins!
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HereSince1628 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 06:29 AM
Response to Reply #1
7. Yes, were among early settlers in Lynne (sp?)
but as freemen he and his brother (amongst others) were unhappy with the quality of what they considered a swamp the company had given them as farmland.

So a group pooled up some money...bought a boat... sailed to Long Island..tried unsuccessfully to squat on some land belonging to the Dutch...and eventually began the community of Southampton, Long Island.
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ayeshahaqqiqa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 06:03 PM
Response to Reply #7
12. Surnamed Salmon?
That's the ones of my family who hightailed it to Long Island. I've also got Stephen Hopkins, the Dodges of Salem, Fosters of North Andover, and Henry Adams (grandfather to John and Samuel) as kinsmen. Bet we're connected somehow!
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1monster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 08:12 AM
Response to Reply #1
9. Since 1639 to Connecticut...
Edited on Tue May-25-04 08:13 AM by 1monster
And some from one of the Mayflower voyages (on the distaff side), but I've got to look up the details...
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punpirate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 06:01 AM
Response to Original message
2. Andy pays no attention to the...
... slaughter of several hundred thousand Filipinos by American forces during the Spanish-American War and its aftermath.... There are lots of ugly incidents perpetrated by the American government for the benefit of business in this country, but little of it is either remembered or vilified.

Bush told the country and the troops that they were avenging 9/11, and that excused their behavior toward Iraqis out of a sense of revenge. The true horror is that all these people acted with cruelty out of a sense of revenge, and secondly, that they believed a fraud such as Bush when he intimated that Iraq was responsible for 9/11.

Many troops believe that Iraq was responsible for 9/11, and that their actions are justified by that belief. A great shame... if they'd received their college educations before joining the military, instead of joining the military to receive that education, they might have been able to discern Bush's lies from the truth.
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AliceWonderland Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 06:15 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. Exactly
Andy acting as though this is an isolated and unique event -- apart from the context of war in all its forms, something America knows well -- is absurd.
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Webster Green Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 06:23 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. Thanks for pointing this out..here's some more ugly incidents...
....not a complete list however:

Darkest Days Keywords: Native Americans, African Americans, Slaves, Haiti, Vietnam, Cambodia, Chile, Guatamala, El Salvador, Panama, East Timor, Nicaraqua, Venezuala, Columbia, Afghanistan, and on and on and on......Lots of lies in our history books about what a great, compassionate, defender of democracy we are, only problem is....its all bullshit.
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progdonkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 06:17 AM
Response to Original message
4. history
Americans will forget soon enough; we love living with the pretense that the US Army is a force for good (we beat one dictator who is pure evil--Hitler--and we're all of a sudden purest good). It's a shame, but the only wars that America fought that were based on the ideals of freedom were the Revolution, the War of 1812 (ext. of the Revolution), the Civil War (became one of freedom), WWII (like the Civil War), and Korea. Every other war has been one of conquest, trade dominance, and outgrowths of meaningless alliances (WWI).

The rest of the world, unfortunately, will not forget. Maybe this will actually be good, though, since our European allies and, especially, the Muslim world will not let us forget either.

Perhaps our shame will allow the nation to undergo a catharsis, enabling us to return to the ideals of Jefferson and Madison.

Perhaps I've just been up all night... :hangover:
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teryang Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 06:23 AM
Response to Original message
6. Welcome to the gulag
This could be the beginning of the end or just the beginning. If we don't see some decisive leadership in Washington institutions, it is just the beginning. What the Supreme Court does will be very critical. Their performance doesn't inspire confidence.

The Nick Berg killing was a not so subtle F.U. to the outrage over the American torture policy.
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donhakman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 08:12 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. untrained as what?
Being a human being? ........exactly. And take Bush to Corsica with you.
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kskiska Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 08:51 AM
Response to Original message
10. Andy's wife just died a couple weeks ago
I'm surprised he's writing. He's been skeptical about Iraq all along, though, and he's not holding back now.
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Beetwasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 10:45 AM
Response to Original message
11. He's Goddamn Right
"In the history of the world, several great civilizations that seemed immortal have deteriorated and died. I don't want to seem dramatic tonight, but I've lived a long while, and for the first time in my life, I have this faint, faraway fear that it could happen to us here in America as it happened to the Greek and Roman civilizations.

Too many Americans don't understand what we have here, or how to keep it. I worry for my grandchildren, my great-grandchildren. I want them to have what I've had, and I sense it slipping away."

I think he's being optimistic unfortunately. I don't think it's a "faint, faraway fear...", it might actually be a done deal. It's over.
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duvinnie Donating Member (754 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. agreed
its done, and aint nothin either party can do to put humpty dumpty back together again. not after the way that true proponents of the
republic - Dean and Kucinich - were treated. stripped and humiliated
by the media in a political version of abu ghraib.
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DrWeird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 08:02 PM
Response to Original message
14. To bad he celebrates Columbus.
I guess I'll excuse him because he's so fucking old he just doesn't know any better.
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