Movie details rising tide of anti-Semitism in Europe

[Behind the Aegis]

A young man is walking to his synagogue in London when a group of boys approaches on bicycles. As they pass, one of them punches the young man in the face, unprovoked.

“That’s what happens to Jews,” he says, as they ride off.

Does the incident herald another Holocaust?

That’s not a flippant question.

When do the margins become the mainstream? When do isolated incidents become the norm? The rallying cry of “Never Again,” by its nature, demands watchfulness, because preventing a Holocaust requires the world to recognize what the seeds of a Holocaust are.

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[Name removed]

1. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mamaleah]

2. The solution, "Become less Jewish" is why we need to always be vigilant and aware

that we are not safe anywhere.

I sincerely hope European Jews keep their eyes open and their ears to the ground.

[Behind the Aegis]

3. Agreed. However, all of us need to be vigilant.

Would another Holocaust emerge in Europe? I doubt it would barring something major. However, I can see Holocaust-like events occurring in a variety of places, on a limited scale, to purge certain nations of Jews.

[mamaleah]

4. Good point.

It fascinates me how antisemitism is never confined to one group. Even politically, it crosses into both sides.

[Behind the Aegis]

5. Anti-semitism really isn't different than most forms of bigotry.

Bigotry knows no bounds. Anti-semitism is much the same. The only real difference I see is that anti-semitism has the same "myths" cross-culturally, as opposed to other forms of bigotry.

[Alcibiades]

8. I suppose the left gets no exemption from your broadbrush

Sorry, but I hate to see liberals get lumped in with the antisemitic right. When there's a vicious attack on Jews, for example at the Holocaust Museum, do you really think it is just as likely for the perpetrator to be liberal, as it would for them to be conservative?

I'm sure you're right that there is some antisemitism on the left, but I do think that 95% of real antisemitism is to be found on the right, as was the case with von Brunn.

[mamaleah]

10. If you honestly think that the left is free from antisemitism,

you must be dreaming. It has plenty of it. Most of the time it is paraded about as anti-Israel talk. But as this thread shows, some people think Jews "richly deserve" to be the victims of antisemitic acts.

[Violet_Crumble]

13. They said in their post the left wasn't free of antisemitism...

So I'm not sure why yr acting as though they said something different.

For the record, I have as little time for folk who think Jews richly deserve to be at the butt-end of antisemitism anymore than I have any time for those who aren't opposed to all forms of bigotry and have no problems mixing online with Islamophobes and anti-Arab bigots...

[mamaleah]

16. For the record....

I do not really care what you think.

I have looked through I/P enough times to smell the stench of antisemitism that wafts from it.

Again, someone saying antisemitism is "richly deserved" is still standing.

Show me where anyone could say "racism is richly deserved" and not get tombstoned.

[Violet_Crumble]

17. Whether you care or not isn't going to stop me pointing out the double standards...

Nor pointing out the bleeding obvious fact that criticism of Israel isn't antisemitic. For someone who is so ultra-sensitive as to make such a sweeping and incorrect statement about a forum where the mods crack down on bigotry, the sheer lack of sensitivity when it comes to other forms of bigotry, such as Islamaphobia and bigotry against Arabs is pretty stunning.

You really should stop making false claims about what DU admin and mods allow to be posted here. If you have a problem with a post, do what everyone else would do and alert on it instead of seeming to think the mods should be mindreaders...

[mamaleah]

18. And I will not stop pointing out the double standards either.

Have a great night.

[Violet_Crumble]

19. Well, I'm all abuzz waiting for you to start doing that...

on edit: removed a judgement call that was a bit unfair on you. My apologies for that....


Sleep well...

[mamaleah]

20. Oh I shall.

You sleep well also. :)

BTW, I hit alert several times. But I guess antisemitism is richly deserved in some people's minds. Oh well. They can hate Jews all they want. We just never will go away.

[Violet_Crumble]

21. fwiw, I alerted as well...

I kind of suspect that the post will be dealt with sooner rather than later, and that maybe the mods for this forum haven't been round. I totally agree with you about the comment being totally unacceptable. Where I don't agree with you is about DU allowing that sort of thing to stand, and I think you were too harsh on the I/P forum where there's some good conversations to be had with folk I don't agree about everything on, even if it does take ignoring the trolls to get to them...

[Name removed]

23. Deleted sub-thread

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[PDJane]

6. I can't see that happening on the scale and

with the zealotry that it was pursued by the Nazis; for one thing, it is unlikely that the US and England would financially back the apparatus of state extermination, the way that they did the first time. I can, however, see Israel going beyond the ability of their neighbours, including Iran, to tolerate their excesses. If that happens, there will be another world war, as people get pulled into supporting Israel and the US.....or not.

That is why I believe that peace talks are necessary, that a solution to Israeli bigotry is an imperative and a fair solution is an obligation of all parties...it is a requisite part of controlling anti-semitism in general and forestalling another widespread demonstration of prejudice.

While isolated instances of anti-semitism will occur every time there is a severe economic upheaval, along with a rise in general prejudice against all kinds of people who might look different, for the time being another holocaust that makes Jews the scapegoat is unlikely.

[DonCoquixote]

7. You may have good intentions

But you should know that when you say Zionists=Jews, you are loading all Jews into a bubble, where even some of the far-left, arab-loving, anti Israel jews realize that people will want to kill them just the same. Is it just to kill Naomi Klein and Noam Chomsky because of Israel? Of course, there are many who oppose Israel, but, especially in Europe, there are many who are outright using Israel as an excuse to say "see, we Euros were right all along, we should have let Hitler take care of that problem." If you doubt this, go over to the "comment" section of the GuardianUK, and see the snakes crawl out. This is in a paper in a nation where people CANNOT hide behind the "First amendment" canard and declare a right to make an ass of themselves, where Libel is harsh, and yet both their columnists and those who respond to them react spew the sort of vitriol that normally only shows up at Glenn Beck book signings.

None of this excuse the fact that Israel is evil, and cannot be allowed to exist in it's current form, Nones of this changes the fact that Anti-Semitism is real, and that some state should exist for the Jews, as frankly, Europe, the place that they lived for centuries, DOES NOT WANT THEM!

However, let's stop painting halos on Palestinians, because they too like to kill children. There will be no peace in that land as long as both Rabbi and Imam can preach war from their pulpits. Call it imperialism, but frankly, only something like the UN can impose peace, because only they have the authority to tell both Rabbi and Imam to knock it off or go to jail like any other person who tries to promote murder. However, if you did that, you would have both Jew and Arab squeal that the UN is ruining their precious "right of religious expression."

[PDJane]

12. I have never said that zion = jews.

What I am saying is that if the excesses of the state of Israel are condoned or ignored, if the law is not applied the way it should be, then anti-semitism will happen. Period. The right or wrong is not the point. Humanity being what it is and anti-semitism having fueled by position and economics and history, it's a pretty sure bet. That is the catch in having a state. It's quite true that Americans in general are unaware of the actions of their government abroad, as opposed to what the government says it is doing abroad. That does not stop the people who have borne the brunt of American actions from finding the whole country at fault for those actions. After all, it was American elected officials who did those things.

So, if you have the state, and the state has been engaged in a brutal 40-year occupation, with the end aim of cleansing the land of Palestine of Palestinians, forcing many into what amount to open air jails, breaking bones and humiliating people, shooting directly at women and children and civilian infrastructure, then the 'moral force' meme wears thin. And no, the Palestinians have not even trie to destroy Israel's civilian infrastructure. This is when the reality catches up to the happy little lies told by the government, and people become aware of the difference between words and action. That is when what is happening in Israel begins to fuel anti-semitism.

The Arabic population has a right, in their view, to despise and to fight the Jewish occupation force. That is a right enshrined in the Geneva conventions. They are in a different position entirely; they do have a right to hate their opressors, and that is something that isn't bigotry. It isn't anti-semitism; that hatred was earned by theft and violence, and in the same position, you wouldn't feel any differently.

The hatred in Britain is a whole other kettle of fish. The anti-semitism in Britain is mostly confined to a small class of thugs and working-class schoolboys, in the same way that the anti-Indian sentiment is. Remember that the British population of visible minorities is probably larger than that of the US. That is not because of slavery, but because of the make-up of the commonwealth and the migration from commonwealth countries. Germany's skinhead and neo-nazi groups are more worrying, quite frankly, and they do have a very distinct anti-semitic bias, at least on paper.

[DonCoquixote]

14. And no, the Palestinians have not even trie to destroy Israel's civilian infrastructure.

WHAT?

There are several dead Israelis that will disagree with you. It's not thing to say the PLO has a right to fight, but to say they never attacked the civilian infrastructure is such ripe bs.

[PDJane]

15. They can't destroy it.

They don't have the powerful armaments that are needed to blow up the water filtration or the nuclear plants or any of the other things that make the Israeli state work. We're not talking about individuals; the palestinians can kill people, but they don't have the equipment it takes to blow up the state. That's an insane statement.

[DonCoquixote]

22. Please

Bombs and Rockets can blow up any building, as Mohammed Atta sadly proved one Eleventh of September. If they wanted to stick to killing PEOPLE, they would not have invested in Rockets. You just can't admit that you favor one side over the other, which is your right. Me, myself, I despise both sides, and think nothing short of a DMZ, manned by by people who NO cultural stake in the ME (like the Chinese), will suit the task.

[LeftishBrit]

9. I don't think that there is as much of a 'rise' as sometimes thought

There was more antisemitism in the (recent) past than was often admitted, and less of a rise in recent years. JMO, as a Europaean Jew. It is, however, true that certain forms of antisemitism ('the Jews own the banks!', etc.) are commoner in a recession, and we have to be vigilant against Jews, or any group, becoming scapegoats. It's also true that the Internet makes some difference - on the positive side in reporting and campaigning against prejudices and bigoted acts, and on the negative side in actually spreading racist myths.

[BunkerHill24]

11. Watched this documentary last night.....

It's titled "Panorama investigates the truth about racism and anti-social behavior in Britain."

You can watch it here: http://www.megavideo.com/?v=UJCVVOLJ

[clear eye]

24. Thank you for posting the link. The film is shattering.

Part of what makes it so disturbing is that the abuse goes on out in the open on the streets is broad daylight, showing the perpetrators have absolutely no fear of the police taking action against them. We have more severe muggings in U.S. inner cities, but the muggers skulk in dark corners and isolated locations, to avoid being seen. These British JDs are totally confident in the supportive racism of the authorities.

Could you make this an OP in GD?