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UPDATE: H1N1 Swine Flu Vaccine Test Infects Entire U.S. Naval Vessel,

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midnight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 06:48 PM
Original message
UPDATE: H1N1 Swine Flu Vaccine Test Infects Entire U.S. Naval Vessel,
UPDATE: H1N1 Swine Flu Vaccine Test Infects Entire U.S. Naval Vessel, Kills Captain and Chief Petty Officer also THREE OTHER U.S. NAVAL SHIPS reported to be under similar at-sea quarantine (NOW CONFIRMED)

The truth is that the swine flu epidemic will be created BY THE VACCINE. If we dont take it, there will be no epidemic. From this one test its apparent that the vaccine as tested on that ships crew in April is 96% effective at infecting the recipient with swine flu.

http://labvirus.wordpress.com/2009/09/25/h1n1-vaccine-i... /

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Trajan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 06:50 PM
Response to Original message
1. Fuck .... my heart literally stopped reading this ....
Edited on Sun Sep-27-09 06:51 PM by Trajan
that is .... shocking ....
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panader0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 06:53 PM
Response to Original message
2. Prepare to be bombarded as "anti-science"
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midnight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 07:09 PM
Response to Reply #2
14. Is that your personal opinion?
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-28-09 12:31 AM
Response to Reply #14
58. I don't know how the other poster considers this
Edited on Mon Sep-28-09 12:38 AM by truedelphi
But yes you will be swarmed by members of the Borg, telling you your are not scientific enough. That you are anti-science.

We have entered a new world, or perhaps the BRAVE NEW WORLD, of Big Corporations. Big Corporations now control TRUTH, just as the Catholic Church once did, during the days of Galileo. And no, no scientist will be burned at the stake for his beliefs, but should his or her research differ from what the Brave New World requires, and should after being prodded, that scientist refuse to slant their data and findings, they will be derided, just as Andrew Wakefield has been.

In 1997, I watched C Span, when the many parents of autistic children appeared before Sen Burton's panel on vaccines. They represented the over ten thousand people who witnessed massive changes in their little kids after they received the MMR vaccine. They saw their children becoming screaming, crying, whimpering children moments after their MMR shots. And they report their kids were never normal after that moment, but instead went on to be diagnosed as autistic.

In the ole days, doctors would encourage a parent to observe and report what their child undergoes. This is inductive data - inductive reasoning. You see your child, who had made all the well baby markers ahead of time, dissolve into a pain filled and enraged youngster, with diarrhea and vomiting and what not, all as a result of the MMR vaccine. In the old days -- your testimony as to your observations would have been welcomed by science - Real Science. But Corporate Science now dictates that no individual experience can ever be data - it is dismissed as anecdotal... (So much for the apple that Newton observed falling on his head.)

The Corporate Scientists have even developed a new expression "Anecdotal" "Anecdotal" used to mean, a happy experience related to others. But now it means that you are basing your statement on an isolated incident.

In the matter of vaccines, why this is so spurious is that Jenner himself only formulated his entire theory of vaccines observations obtained with fewer than fifty young cow maids. Yet Corporate Scientists have made Jenner one of their high priests, haven't they? He is not guilty of using anecdotal evidence - he uses scientific evidence, (Or so Corproate Science says) even though his entire data field was fewer than fifty people. Only the parents of the autistic children are to be labeled with the term "Anecdotal" -- not High Priest Jenner. Even though the parents collectively have over ten thousand pieces of data and reference in their memories' store.

Funny world, that of the New Corporate Science.

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Why Syzygy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-28-09 12:46 AM
Response to Reply #58
62. +1
:applause: Excellent!

I was thinking about this very thing today; "anecdotal evidence". To anyone who tries to live their life without it, I wish the best of luck with that! If each and every one of us required lab studies or our own experience before we do anything, we would do nothing!

If I want to try a new restaurant/movie/travel destination/car/mop/recipe ... I might ask my friends for "anecdotal evidence". Does that provide me with empirical evidence that my experience will duplicate theirs? No. But it does provide some guideposts. Have we become so isolated and 'independent' that another's experience means nothing to us any longer? A majority of drug trials rely on the participants' "anecdotal evidence" reporting of symptoms.

I could never say it as well as you have. Just posting to let you know I GET IT!
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kimmerspixelated Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-28-09 03:51 PM
Response to Reply #58
76. Thanks TrueDelphi!
You rock , as usual!

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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-29-09 09:55 PM
Response to Reply #76
113. I stand on the shoulders of all those who came before me.
Edited on Tue Sep-29-09 10:00 PM by truedelphi
Francine Levien of Marin Breast Cancer Watch (Founder of Breast Cancer Watch.) Her first meeting resulted in a mere five warm bodies sitting in her living room. Little did she know how well she would succeed if only she persevered. And no one who ever met this woman came away feeling that they were not her very dearest and bestest friend.

Anna Soto, who realized that the plastic materials inside the IV's were carcinogenic of themselves. Her observations have brought about many of the warnings on the various bottles and containers we use in our drinks and foods.

Marc Lappe, who was shoved out of industry when he refused to slant his report on either Malathion or RoundUp data to the liking of a large science research center, but went on to create his own science center. He died several years ago, with one of his kids now instrumental to the success of Guerrilla Network News.

Warren Porter, who continues to research the effects of RoundUp, Ritalin, and other nasties on the children that our industrialists use as their guinea pigs. Always speaking truth to power.

Leuren Moret, who was kicked out of Lawrence Livermore Labs for being so worried that a lil thing like radioctivity might be bad for the health of all of us here on earth.

And the man who first suggested I come here and type at the DU world whenever I was tired, angry, fed up, or outraged. I had no inkling the day I signed on that he wouldn't be around another 12 months. RIP Andy. RIP.



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TrogL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-28-09 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #58
78. Jenner's findings have been duplicated over and over and over in controlled studies
The autism-is-caused-by vaccines has not. It's as simple as that.

Were it true, every child given that vaccine would have developed autism.

Were it true, autism cases would have dropped drastically after the change in vaccines. It didn't. (the increase can be attributed to diagnostic changes)

You've fallen for the Fallacy of the Undivided Middle.
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Why Syzygy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-28-09 05:39 PM
Response to Reply #78
86. You're wrong about the studies.
Vaccines are not 100% effective.
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Joe Chi Minh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-28-09 06:56 PM
Response to Reply #2
88. I wouldn't advise you say say that to any of the crews of those vessels
or their families, dum-dum. "Scientismificists" and the harm they wreak.
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Chemisse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 06:53 PM
Response to Original message
3. The source is not good
It is riddled with opinion and does not even have a good source for its conclusions:

"Data gleaned indirectly from anonymous testimony of Navy wives of the affected crew via the internet radio show"

I'd wait for a story from a legitimate source.
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midnight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 07:08 PM
Response to Reply #3
13. Really and what sources of information are considered good?
You think the cdc are going to tell our service men "good facts" about what they are facinating them with? Not a chance! How about Dr. Nancy Schniderman. Is she a good source? Your complaint is so vague?
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Chemisse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 07:23 PM
Response to Reply #13
22. A news source would be good - nt
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midnight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 07:44 PM
Response to Reply #22
35. Ok.
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-28-09 12:34 AM
Response to Reply #22
59. Spend some five years of your life as an indie reporter
Researching a gasoline additive and then tell me how TRUTHFUL the mainstream press is:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/6/22/143038/082?new=...
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 07:31 PM
Response to Reply #13
28. A blog linked to teabagger sites is a valid source?
For pete's sake! Google Navy Flu, and you'll find legitimate sources. What is the deal with this unreliable sourcing on anything having to do with the flu?

If you don't want a flu shot, don't get one. Lies and bogus blog articles are not evidence.
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midnight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 07:53 PM
Response to Reply #28
38. This blog was sent to me from a well respected democrate in my state.
So if you could point out the teabagger connection, I would appriciate.
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 07:55 PM
Response to Reply #38
41. There's a link on that very blog to a noted teabagger site.
Edited on Sun Sep-27-09 07:59 PM by MineralMan
Please research your sources before posting. Don't rely on "well respected democrates ." Why must we do your research for you? Isn't that embarrassing to you to have your OP debunked. Check your sources and don't post from unreliable sources, please.

It's Democrats, by the way. Now, where have we seen "democrates" before?

Actually, that blog links to many teabagger and conspiracy theory sites. Try this link from that blog:

http://www.campfema.com /

How's that for a great, progressive site.

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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-28-09 12:36 AM
Response to Reply #41
61. Yes and Joseph Kennedy (Senior) met with Hitler.
So what?


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LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-29-09 11:23 AM
Response to Reply #61
106. And Joseph Kennedy was indeed a most untrustworthy individual poltiically
He opposed any aid to Britain in the war, and said that 'democracy was already finished in Britain'. He was openly antisemitic (though to give him his due he did oppose Father Coughlin) and he ended up in league with Joe McCarthy.

Fortunately, the apples fell very far from the tree in that case. Certainly I would never support blaming people for the attitudes of their parents. But nonetheless if someone quoted Joseph Kennedy's opinions as valid (unlikely nowadays), I *would* point out his affiliations with the right.
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-29-09 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #106
109. Oh I agree. I didn't make my point very clearly.
My point was that in the blogosphere, everything can be all wrapped up together.

So some John Birch right wing fanatic could have the Gettysberg address, a section of Mein Kampf and videos of Princess Di's wedding. If the three items have not been tampered with, but are full copies, unaltered, what does it matter who the source is. What is important is that it is untampered full length copies of the material, and the source (to me) is irrelevant.



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Why Syzygy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-28-09 12:57 AM
Response to Reply #41
63. Health issues
don't know anything about partisanship. Surely YOU realize that some Democrats hold opinions that differ from the party line? Surely you don't expect us all to stick with Democratic approved materials for every piece of information we consider (like the JWs do)? That would be an ideal situation. Can't be done.

The highest ranking Democrats don't want to pursue war criminals. They don't want to get out of pointless wars. They don't want to rescind the Patriot Act or reestablish Habeas Corpus or put an end to illegal snooping. Many of them don't even want universal health care!

You go right ahead and wrap yourself in the party banner. Some of us will go wherever the truth is.
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LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-29-09 11:33 AM
Response to Reply #63
107. It isn't just that these sites aren't Democratic-party-approved..
Edited on Tue Sep-29-09 11:36 AM by LeftishBrit
it is that they support far-right conspiracy-theorists who consider that government is intrinsically evil, that Obama was placed in office as the result of a conspiracy by the Rothschilds to murder the American people, etc.

The right-libertarians and CT-ers CERTAINLY do not want universal health care! That is part of the whole point -they are suspicious of any and all health measures promoted by government.

The truth is NEVER in far-right propaganda. NEVER! NEVER NEVER! That doesn't mean that Democratic party or even left-wing sources always do have the truth; but it does mean that right-wing tea-bagger-type sources are invariably evil (or for those who dislike the word 'evil', 'extremely dangerous') and represent a far greater danger than either the swine flu or any vaccine against it.

Health issues *are* partisan, in the sense that there is a deep political divide between those who do and those who do not want government involvement in health care. The right-libertarians and worse, who fear any government involvement in health care, will use *any* information, real or false, against it.

If something is really the truth, one should never need to use a right-wing propaganda source to support it. It will be available elsewhere.
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Why Syzygy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-30-09 01:30 AM
Response to Reply #107
117. I don't agree.
If something is really the truth, one should never need to use a right-wing propaganda source to support it. It will be available elsewhere.


I see too much censorship right here at DU to believe that just because someone is a Democrat, they are going to give you all the information. We KNOW (or should) that the MSM is censored.

I'll find the truth wherever it is. I never accept one side of a story without checking the alternatives. I'm not going to rule out something just due to its location on the Internet.
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winyanstaz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-28-09 02:45 PM
Response to Reply #41
74. so if a blog links to tea bagger and or conspiracy theory sites...
that automatically makes the news wrong? Tea baggers may have a lot of stuff wrong but some stuff they think are actually right..such as the government is a mess. They are still our fellow citizens too so stop
"dehumanizing" everything they do. I am not believing a lot of stuff they think is true..but because they have been lied to, it doesn't make them bad people.
And as to "conspiracy theory sites"...it must piss you off that so many have now turned out to be right.
I am sick of people telling me what to believe...I do my own dang homework and I have found a lot of things that prison planet and other "conspiracy sites" have said was true..have turned out to be spot on.
And by the way...9-11 was an inside job...like it or not. When the 9-11 commission members start telling us it was all a con job and they didn't bother checking the facts or left some out...then the official story has fallen apart and will not hold water. It was a lie. Time you accept that and start to deal with reality.
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kimmerspixelated Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-28-09 03:58 PM
Response to Reply #74
79. DINDGDINGDINGDING!!
SPot on!
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LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-29-09 11:45 AM
Response to Reply #74
108. Yes, all opinions of right-wing conspiracy sites are invariably wrong.
The point is that they don't just think that particular governments are a mess. They think that all government is bad. They think that any health provision (including vaccines) from the government is a bad thing. In their ideal world, it would be 'everyone for themselves', with no provision for weaker or poorer people. Usually, the view is combined with racism and xenophobia. The combination, as far as I am concerned, is the polar opposite of all that is decent in life. Thus ALL teabagger and similar political viewpoints are INVARIABLY wrong.

Such sites may occasionally link to genuine news sites, but then why not go directly to these news sites, rather than through the polluted medium of right-wing propaganda?

I don't think that all who believe such propaganda are bad people, any more than I think that all who believed Bush are bad people (some of them are the same ones); but I do think that they are brainwashed by propaganda that ultimately comes from bad people.
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Joe Chi Minh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-28-09 07:00 PM
Response to Reply #41
89. SO WHAT. you wouldn't know, obviously, but the world is nuanced.
Sometimes you can get better info from far-right sites than others. It happens.

You need to have the intelligence though not to be fearful of being taken in by right-wing bullshit, though. Which you clearly don't have.
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LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-29-09 07:34 AM
Response to Reply #89
101. 'Sometimes you can get better info from far-right sources than others'. No. NEVER!!!!!
Edited on Tue Sep-29-09 07:41 AM by LeftishBrit
Never Ever Ever!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The far-right is the most evil, monstrous, dangerous disease in the entire universe; and has caused more death and suffering in the world than anything else (well, perhaps not more than Nature itself, but the right does so of choice.). As it starts from a position that all attempts to help people do more harm than good, and quotes anything to support that position, no argument or 'information' from such a source can EVER be valid!

The world is nuanced - but there are NO nuances when it comes to the far-right being the ultimate enemy of all that is worth-while in the world.

The fact that the far right oppose the swine flu vaccine doesn't of course mean that the swine flu vaccine is a *good* thing (we have to await the results of the clinical trials). But it does make it a bit more likely IMO.

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Joe Chi Minh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-29-09 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #101
111. Well it's not very smart to be so adamantine in your deliberate nescience, when there
is hard evidence readily available in any Daily Mail. They can't ONLY provide their reades with vicious rubbish. But I've told you that before, so it would be foolish to continue this exchange.
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DeltaLitProf Donating Member (459 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-30-09 12:14 AM
Response to Reply #111
116. Do you realize the Daily Mail is the equivalent of our National Enquirer?
n/t
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LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-30-09 03:19 AM
Response to Reply #111
121. Anything that is only available in the Daily Mail IS vicious rubbish
They do sometimes include news that is also available in more reliable sources, so it's worthwhile checking their news items to see if they're confirmed elsewhere. Sometimes they are. However, they are essentially a more superficially respectable version of a hate-site, and nothing that they say should ever be taken as 'hard evidence' in itself.
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Why Syzygy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 07:14 PM
Response to Reply #3
17. Denial kicks in.
Saw this happen a few days ago on the kids in school video discussion. Everyone screaming it was FAKE!
Now we know. It was not.

It is just too damn bad there is no vaccine against Denial.
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Chemisse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 07:19 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. LOL - It could very well be true.
But I will wait for a much better source than someone's blog.
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midnight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 07:28 PM
Response to Reply #19
27. Maybe you might have to start doing some research on your own.
It is the least you could do for yourself,if you suspect this story could be true.
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Chemisse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 07:35 PM
Response to Reply #27
30. No thanks, I am not getting any flu shot whether such a thing is true or not - nt
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midnight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 07:41 PM
Response to Reply #30
33. Well then I'm glad your at least wondering in to take a look at the
information being presented.
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midnight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 07:25 PM
Response to Reply #17
24. I wish an awareness would instead!
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kimmerspixelated Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-28-09 03:54 PM
Response to Reply #3
77. Sadly, all "Legitimate" sources
that you might believe to be the truth-tellers are in fact check collectors from Big Pharma. Look at all the drug ads on tv. Big Pharma pays most of the broadcasting airtime bills.
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Butch350 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-29-09 06:39 PM
Response to Reply #3
112. Well...go get the swine shot - and report back with the results.
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Selatius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 06:53 PM
Response to Original message
4. Is the vaccine using an actual live virus? It sounds like the case if it is infectious. nt
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midnight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 07:24 PM
Response to Reply #4
23. GlaxoSmithKline and Novartis vaccines contain a LIVE VIRUS
the main ingredient in the GlaxoSmithKline and Novartis vaccines contain a LIVE VIRUS, an attenuated virus meaning it's a weakened form of the swine flu virus. http://www.newsvine.com/_labs/recommend
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napi21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 06:53 PM
Response to Original message
5. Hmmm....Doe you really trust this web site? That story doesn't make sense to me.
I learned a long time ago that when the hair stands up on the nape of my neck, something is fishy.
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BeatleBoot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 06:54 PM
Response to Original message
6. Prepare to be Bombarded as "a Dumb Ass"
In 3-2-1...




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PSPS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 06:54 PM
Response to Original message
7. Sorry, but this "report" is hogwash
First, the website is rabidly anti-any vaccine to begin with. ("DEATH AND STERILIZATION SHOT," "CONSPIRACY TO COMMIT GENOCIDE" -- the only thing missing is a dose of "!!!11!1!!1")

Second, this "update" is based entirely on anecdotal hearsay ("anonymous testimony of Navy wives" no less!)
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midnight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 07:03 PM
Response to Reply #7
12. Really.... I wonder how the wives of our marines feel when their
Edited on Sun Sep-27-09 07:51 PM by midnight
cry for help is being reduced to hearsay. And that their testomony is being reduced because of anonymity. As for the hogwash, I have heard it said before,and so have are military men. In fact recently one of our military men was told by the V.A. that his cancer was something he had to take up with the Marine corps. These service men and their families are so easily dismissed.
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stray cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 06:57 PM
Response to Original message
8. This makes the birthers sound rationale and intelligent!
Edited on Sun Sep-27-09 06:57 PM by stray cat
the conservatives clearly have nothing on the progressives
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LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-29-09 09:36 AM
Response to Reply #8
105. Actually, the website is clearly conservative, not progressive, and links to RW conspiracy sites
What is worrying is that some progressives are prepared to accept such sites as valid sources,
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Why Syzygy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-30-09 01:33 AM
Response to Reply #105
118. Then get busy worrying.
We have no reason whatsoever to believe the MSM and strictly Democratic sites are giving the whole story about everything.

Furthermore, the right wing nutters are NOT as dangerous to our liberty as are the monolithic CORPORATIONS! Those corporations believe they should be entitled to all the guarantees of citizenship including electing our political leaders! Not even close. Check the SCOTUS.
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trotsky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 06:57 PM
Response to Original message
9. I know that facts aren't welcome in anti-vax hysteria, but...
the H1N1 vaccine is made with KILLED and purified virus parts. The H1N1 vaccine cannot cause the H1N1 flu.

The truth here is that your blog site is being paranoid and making wild unsupported claims. Read the only legit news link they give (to CBS news). There is no mention of the vaccine being involved in this outbreak. No one died, either.

Please don't feed the irrational and ridiculous hysteria.
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Ms. Toad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 07:16 PM
Response to Reply #9
18. This report is absolute rubbish
That said, the H1N1 vaccines do include a live attenuated version, and it will be among the first delivered.

http://h1n1.nejm.org/?p=890

Certain at risk populations are being advised to wait until a vaccine with killed virus is available because of the risks associated with the live virus. Live attenuated virus vaccines can infect individuals who are immunosuppressed either directly - or through virus shed by people around them who have been vaccinated with live attenuated virus vaccines.
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trotsky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 07:27 PM
Response to Reply #18
26. Yes, that is typical for the nasal variety.
But since the fear-mongering blog post specifically referred to the "DEATH AND STERILIZATION SHOT" I thought it was referring to the injected vaccine.
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Ms. Toad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 07:50 PM
Response to Reply #26
36. It may well have been.
Edited on Sun Sep-27-09 07:50 PM by Ms. Toad
I am acutely aware of the special issues associated with overactive and underactive immune systems because my daughter has two autoimmune disorders - and many with one of her disorders have already had transplants and are immune-suppressed (post transplant). The live attenuated virus is an issue for at least the latter group (or people caring for those in the latter group) - so I wanted to make sure people were aware that not all versions of the H1N1 vaccine use killed viruses.
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Joe Chi Minh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-28-09 07:11 PM
Response to Reply #18
90. Many of our doctors in the UK are not taking the swine-flu jab, apparently.
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 07:54 PM
Response to Reply #9
39. But that's their point...
"Please don't feed the irrational and ridiculous hysteria."

It appears to be the mission of some here to do exactly that. Witness this thread, and others being posted every day. Bogus sources, inaccurate information, and more...all designed to promote the anti-vaccine conspiracy theories.

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trotsky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 08:00 PM
Response to Reply #39
43. I fear you are correct.
While simultaneously decrying the supposed hysteria fed by "big gubmint" or "big pharma" that H1N1 could easily mutate into something very dangerous, to boot. Nothing like a healthy dose of hypocrisy, I suppose.
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kimmerspixelated Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-28-09 04:03 PM
Response to Reply #9
80. What planet are you from?
CBS news is NEVER going to admit anything is wrong with the vaccine, because they have the Big Pharma accounts paying their salaries. Conflict of interests. Even if they began to report it, the mafiosos of Big Pharma would be on them like white on rice.
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trotsky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-28-09 04:34 PM
Response to Reply #80
85. Oh but of course.
Because something isn't reported in a story on a legitimate news source, then they are OBVIOUSLY covering it up to collaborate in the ONGOING GLOBAL CONSPIRACEEEEE BY BIG PHARMA TO KILL US ALL!!!! ZOMG LOLWTFBBQ!!!11!!!!elevens!
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-28-09 07:16 PM
Response to Reply #80
91. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Chemisse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 06:58 PM
Response to Original message
10. Here is what the CBS link from that web site showed
It said nothing about the men having been vaccinated.


http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/07/21/health/main51...
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panader0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 07:12 PM
Response to Reply #10
16. While it does not say they were vaccinated
it does say the 69 sailors have since recovered. As I understand it, the vaccine is needed more by the very old, very young, or sick people. These sailors, as with many others who were not vaccinated, have recovered without the vac. This, I think will be the trend, as it seems to be every flu season.
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Chemisse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 07:22 PM
Response to Reply #16
21. Actually with the swine flu
It seems to be children and youngish adults who are hit the hardest, unlike with the seasonal flu. But that is neither here nor there regarding this story.
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midnight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 07:39 PM
Response to Reply #21
32. Parents surveyed don't want their kids vacinated. They are not buying the scare.
But if their parents are hearing the rallying cry to have their kids vaccinated, they're not buying it, says a new national survey.
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-sci-p...
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Chemisse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 07:54 PM
Response to Reply #32
40. A lot of people think the swine flu was hyped to death
Not realizing the WHO and CDC had to respond as they did, and it still could potentially mutate to a very deadly bug. Inject wariness about vaccines in general, perhaps a bit of anti-Obama paranoia, the problems involving some vaccines in the past, and the constant salesman - like push for the seasonal flu vaccine.
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 08:00 PM
Response to Reply #32
44. OK. That's their choice.
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lapfog_1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 07:02 PM
Response to Original message
11. Uh, I don't know who labvirus is...
but they link to resistnet, a tea bagging freeper site.

The CBS report also linked to only reports that there was an outbreak of H1N1 on a navy ship, 69 people came down with the virus and all have since recovered. It mentions nothing about vaccinations or anyone dying or rumored to be dead.

Let's be careful about who we get our information from.
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 07:27 PM
Response to Reply #11
25. The story was also big on abovetopsecret.com, a prime
source for FEMA relocation camp disinformation, along with other garbage.

It's simply false. Some sailors got the flu. All recovered. No vaccine was administered...since it happened in July, before any such vaccine was even available.

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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 07:10 PM
Response to Original message
15. Absolute bullshit. This happened in July. No vaccine was available
at all in July. Men on a ship had the flu. There was no vaccine administered. This made up crap by an anti-vaccine site.

First, it happened in July, not September. People on the ship had the flu. Everything else in this bogus thing is false.

For shame! I mean it. For shame!
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 07:21 PM
Response to Original message
20. More info. This story was also on
abovetopsecret.com. You can see it at:

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread503741/pg1#

It was thoroughly debunked there in the comments. abovetopsecret.com is a major conspiracy theory site.

Here's the item from CBS News. Nobody died. It happened in July:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/07/21/health/main51...

All of the stories I found that resembled this bizarre hoax come from CT sites.

Why is stuff like this posted here, and from unreliable sources?
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midnight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 07:31 PM
Response to Reply #20
29. Ya, that CBS sure debunked that Dan Rather story as I recall.
They made Dan Rather say he was wrong and blah blah blah.... But we know Dan wasn't wrong, RIGHT?
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 07:38 PM
Response to Reply #29
31. And your random blog is reliable? Really?
How about abovetopsecret.com?

Oh...why won't the government tell us the truth? Feh!
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Why Syzygy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 07:44 PM
Response to Original message
34. Flu cases force 3 ships to skip Guam visit
http://businessmirror.com.ph/home/top-news/12475-navy-s...
Navy says sailors with flu fine now
Tuesday, 30 June 2009 00:39

THE Navy admitted on Monday that seven of its personnel contracted swine flu while on training, but said all of them have already fully recovered.

Lt. Col Edgard Arevalo, Navy spokesman, said they decided to “manage” the information about the sailors’ falling prey to A(H1N1) “because we believe that proactive, immediate containment and prevention of undue alarm and panic is essential in controlling the spread of the dreaded disease.”

Arevalo said the seven soldiers were previously admitted to a military hospital, but have since been sent home after fully recuperating.

As a precaution, all of the other sailors on training have been put on isolation in a hospital or on self-imposed quarantine in a guesthouse.


http://www.marketwatch.com/story/vical-pandemic-influen...
Vical Pandemic Influenza Vaccine Demonstrates Cross-reactivity Against California, Texas and Mexico H1N1 Strains
SAN DIEGO, Sep 10, 2009


Vical has entered into a Cooperative Research and Development Agreement (CRADA) with the U.S. Naval Medical Research Center (NMRC), a biomedical research organization within the U.S. Navy, to develop a vaccine against H1N1 influenza.

"We are working with the U.S. Navy to secure funding to advance our H1 vaccine into human clinical testing," added Mr. Samant. "Based on the sustained threat from the ongoing H1N1 pandemic, we have initiated critical-path manufacturing activities to allow initiation of a Phase 1 trial in as little as four to six weeks after funding is secured."


http://www.navytimes.com/news/2009/07/navy_swine_flu_07... /
Sunday July 12, 2009
SAN DIEGO — Three Navy ships had to remain off the coast of Guam this week after reports of crew members were suspected of having swine flu.


The flu-like cases forced Navy and Marine Corps commanders with the naval force to cancel their planned tiger cruise for families scheduled for the leg home from Hawaii.

Reaching Guam, the ships — amphibious assault ship Boxer, dock landing ship Comstock and guided missile cruiser Lake Champlain — instead were resupplied off the coast of the Southwest Pacific island after some crew members had flu-like symptoms, Lt. Jodie Cornell, a Navy public affairs officer with Naval Forces-Marianas, told the Pacific Daily News.

Cmdr. Dora Lockwood, a Third Fleet spokeswoman in San Diego, said Friday that Navy officials had not confirmed any cases of the H1N1 virus, which causes the illness known as the swine flu.

Cornell told the newspaper that Navy officials decided to keep the ships away from port as a “precautionary measure” after service members aboard the ships, which include Marines with the Camp Pendleton, Calif.-based 13th Marine Expeditionary Unit, came down with flu-like symptoms. The affected service members were treated with Tamiflu and were quarantined aboard their ships. (...)


http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N05509787.htm
Flu cancels U.S. Navy mission to Pacific
05 May 2009 21:01:54 GMT

"The ship has been canceled for this. We are looking at options in order to meet the commitments we've made to the countries down there," Robertson said.

The Dubuque usually travels with a crew of 420 sailors and a detachment of 900 Marines, according to a Navy website.

U.S. officials on Tuesday reported a total of 403 confirmed infections with the new H1N1 virus widely known as swine flu.

While officials in Texas also announced another death attributed to the outbreak -- only the second such fatality outside of Mexico -- most U.S. cases have been mild and not required hospital treatment.

Last week about 30 Marines on a Southern California military base, the nation's largest, were quarantined after one became the first U.S. serviceman known to have contracted the swine flu virus. Four will eventually diagnosed with the strain.
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trotsky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 07:52 PM
Response to Reply #34
37. So, which one of those links even begins to support anything in the OP?
Wait, I know the answer: NONE.
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midnight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 08:04 PM
Response to Reply #34
45. Thanks for confirming my suspicious of the military managing this information.
Are you seeing a pattern between the innoculation population and the high rate of outbreak in the flu?
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Why Syzygy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 08:12 PM
Response to Reply #45
47. I know someone who has been hospitalized
Edited on Sun Sep-27-09 08:13 PM by Why Syzygy
since the day after she got the regular flu shot. She now has pneumonia and may not live. The shot gave her the disease.

The Navy is involved in developing the vaccine, they are "managing" the release of information, and they have had multiple ships quarantined. That to me indicates your source is not entirely off the mark.

(Someone I have on ignore is replying. I love my ignore list.)
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trotsky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 08:26 PM
Response to Reply #47
49. The regular flu shot is also made with inactivated (killed) virus.
It cannot cause the flu, OR pneumonia.

I know you are proud about censoring people, bragging about it, but your misstatements and factual errors must be corrected.
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kimmerspixelated Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-28-09 04:10 PM
Response to Reply #49
81. So, because it's so "safe", are you going to try it?
Seriously none of my biz, but just how fast do you line up? Do you camp overnight to await this fantastic protector?
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trotsky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-28-09 04:29 PM
Response to Reply #81
83. Absolutely.
I, my wife, and my kids will all get this vaccine promptly provided there is enough to cover the most vulnerable. I don't want to deal with its (for now) mild symptoms, but more importantly, I don't want to be a vector for it to mutate or spread to others.

But yeah, it is none of your "biz" anyway.
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Joe Chi Minh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-28-09 07:23 PM
Response to Reply #83
92. You remind me of the Tory MP, Selwyn Gummer, who proudly showed
Edited on Mon Sep-28-09 07:28 PM by Joe Chi Minh
the world his young daughter eating a beefburgher during the first outbreak of mad-cow disease (BSE).

They say the far right and the far left have a lot in common.
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trotsky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-28-09 07:54 PM
Response to Reply #92
96. They certainly do.
You both embrace some of the same conspiracies, engage in the same relentless personal attacks and petty name-calling, and reject science when it conflicts with your dogma.
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Joe Chi Minh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-29-09 05:53 PM
Response to Reply #96
110. Quite so, trotsky!
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LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-29-09 07:40 AM
Response to Reply #81
103. Yes, I will, once it is generally released. I won't 'camp overnight' but I will get it when it's
available.
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uberblonde Donating Member (993 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 08:34 PM
Response to Reply #47
51. That is something people have been saying for years.
It's flu season, that's why she got a flu shot. That doesn't mean she wasn't already infected when she got the shot. I suppose it's possible, but why are you stating it as cause ---> effect?
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trotsky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 08:38 PM
Response to Reply #51
53. Because "post hoc ergo propter hoc" isn't a logical fallacy with some people.
Instead, it is a sacred guiding principle of the universe.
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midnight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 08:47 PM
Response to Reply #47
54. I will keep your friend in my thoughts.
I found the fact that Rachell Maddow was treated and back to work, demonstrates how absolutely neccessary medical access is for everyone.
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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 07:59 PM
Response to Original message
42. You are gonna have to come up with a better source for this.......
Fearmongering is SO tiresome.
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midnight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 08:35 PM
Response to Reply #42
52. Most parents won't have kids get H1N1 flu shots, study finds
Most parents won't have kids get H1N1 flu shots, study finds
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-sci-p... The story doesn't site that they are feeding on fear, they just are not buying the fear being peddled to them by Big Pharmacy.
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Joe Chi Minh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-28-09 07:27 PM
Response to Reply #42
93. No. He/she isn't. Your opinion is irrelevant. To any of us. You're gonna have
Edited on Mon Sep-28-09 07:27 PM by Joe Chi Minh
to get off your fantasy island, where your opinion counts, to any one but your cat. Well, all right, your dog. Cat's are difficult anyway.
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 08:09 PM
Response to Original message
46. If you insist on reading bad blogs and scaring yourself stupid, go ahead
just don't expect anybody in health care to follow you into delusion.

This site is absolute rubbish and so is the information in it.
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midnight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 09:07 PM
Response to Reply #46
55. Warpy it is the health care workers who are informing us per this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7wBwOEsw2I&feature=yout... . Please post what you consider good blogs on this topic, other wise you seem to be uninformed.
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Why Syzygy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-28-09 02:37 AM
Response to Reply #55
64. Nurses
Mandatory Flu Vaccination Riles Health Care Workers – They’ll March

(New York / New Jersey) - New York is requiring some health care workers to get a seasonal flu shot now and the H1N1 shot later- -or lose their jobs. But now, a lawsuit filed in new Jersey may help workers in Rochester.

A lawsuit filed in New Jersey calls the mandatory flu shot unconstitutional, but so far a federal judge has denied an injunction which would halt forced vaccinations in any state while the case moves forward.

"It makes me feel very vulnerable,” said one nurse. “It makes me feel like I'm a guinea pig."
This nurse is like many who are concerned that speaking out will cost her her job.

She has voluntarily taken a flu shot most years, but is concerned that safety has been compromised in the rush to get a workable H1H1 vaccine.

She said, "There are a lot of ingredients that aren't safe. Mercury, formaldehyde, anti freeze…I don't agree with any of those things…and if they say it’s safe, then why are the drug companies immune from any lawsuits related to it?"
(...)

http://www.13wham.com/news/local/story/Mandatory-Flu-Va...
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kimmerspixelated Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-28-09 04:15 PM
Response to Reply #64
82. Exactly!
What could be more valid than a first hand report from a nurse, etc.? They've seen it all, they KNOW!
They , too are being silenced, and the lawsuit immunity thing is the biggest red flag of all! If the drug co's are so sure of their product, then why did they get the Bush administration to change the laws for their precious profits? It stinks. IT STINKS TO HIGH HEAVEN!
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mduffy31 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-29-09 01:48 AM
Response to Reply #64
98. I am a nurse
and I am REQUIRED to get a flu shot, just as I am REQUIRED to have a mantoux every year. I believe it is responsible because I have to come in contact with the most vulnerable people, the old and sick.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-28-09 07:28 PM
Response to Reply #46
94. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
madamesilverspurs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-28-09 07:34 PM
Response to Reply #46
95. You'll love this one,
I just got it in an email:



THE SWINE FLU VACCINE WILL KILL YOU!

From: DO International <noreply@do-int.com >
Subject: IMPORTANT PLEASE READ: URGENT VACCINE INFO - Please pass this onto everyone you care about

It's the DOI Management team here with an URGENT update...

Hope you are well.

As you know we normally keep our focus on this relay to
business. But due to extraordinary circumstances that we have
been informed about, we had to contact you today with some really
important information that concerns every member all around the
world and we need your help to pass this information on.

We have all heard of the new swine flu right?

Well there is a lot of information for good reason that the
governments around the world are not telling you. They are
really doing an awesome job right now at running fear campaigns
to have everyone in the community running scared about H1N1.

Before you decide to get your shots voluntarily please take your
time to way up the facts that could ultimately lead to protecting
your health rather than just rushing into vaccination because
your Government says its the right thing to do.

Did you know that the Australian Government has completed a deal
with CSL to buy 21 million vaccinations for the Australian people
and they start Australias single biggest immunization program
ever on the 30th September 2009? see
http://getresponse.com/click.html?x=a62b&lc=lDfX&mc=f&s...
http://getresponse.com/click.html?x=a62b&lc=lDfv&mc=f&s...
http://getresponse.com/click.html?x=a62b&lc=lDfK&mc=f&s...


Did you know that the Irish Government is making it Mandatory?
http://getresponse.com/click.html?x=a62b&lc=lDf2&mc=f&s...
- there is a huge list of articles on the right hand side of this
article all on the H1N1 along with further info and videos
you can watch.

Did you know that the UK Government is planning mass
vaccinations?
http://getresponse.com/click.html?x=a62b&lc=lDfZ&mc=f&s...


Did you know that a Baxter International research facility in
Austria sent a quantity of the H3N2 viral material to 18 European
Laboratories? Watch this -
http://getresponse.com/click.html?x=a62b&lc=lDfe&mc=f&s...

Here is information about the law suit filed against Baxter &
Avir:
http://getresponse.com/click.html?x=a62b&lc=lDfo&mc=f&s...


Did you know that 4.9 Billion Vaccines have been made for the
H1N1 flu and they are about to be administered around the globe
voluntarily to begin and eventually planned to be mandatory? Mass
Vaccination Documents Leaked
http://getresponse.com/click.html?x=a62b&lc=lDfL&mc=f&s... - Part 1
http://getresponse.com/click.html?x=a62b&lc=lDfH&mc=f&s... - Part 2

Ok so the vaccine is coming but what does this really mean for
you?

Of course, everyone has free will to do what they want but
before you make your decision, we just want to bring many
important facts to your attention before you run out to get your
shot. Take some time to read and watch the links below and
you maybe shocked about the real facts of the H1N1 Flu.

This is the stuff the Governments wont tell you.

If you want more info on the affects of what this vaccine for
swine flu can do along with the real facts of the swine flu then
go to: http://getresponse.com/click.html?x=a62b&lc=lDfm&mc=f&s...

Here is an interview by Dr Mercola talking about the Vaccine: -
please disregard any advertising on this video.
http://getresponse.com/click.html?x=a62b&lc=lDfP&mc=f&s...


As of August 28th 2009 (update 63) (
http://getresponse.com/click.html?x=a62b&lc=lDff&mc=f&s... ), there
have been 2185 deaths world wide from H1N1. Compared to seasonal
flu, this does not constitute a pandemic let alone justify
mandatory mass vaccination with a vaccine that will have
dangerous side effects and little proof of efficacy.

Approximately 36 thousand Americans die from seasonal flu every
year, 200 thousand are hospitalised. Between 250 - 500 thousand
people die from seasonal flu world wide, also resulting in three
to five million cases of severe illness.
http://getresponse.com/click.html?x=a62b&lc=lDf8&mc=f&s... The world
wide 2185 deaths from H1N1 virus, does not constitute a pandemic
yet alone grounds to begin mandatory vaccination around the
world.

This doesnt make sense to us and it seems there is some
higher order or reason to be running this scare campaign around
the world. There is also a massive cost to each tax payer along
with a huge profit being made by the manufacturer of the vaccine.

While we are on manufacturers, can you believe a company called
Medimmune filed a patent on the latest H1N1 flu more than a year
before the first case? Yes you heard, a year before the swine
flu started!!! Dont believe us then watch this.
http://getresponse.com/click.html?x=a62b&lc=lDfj&mc=f&s... - H1N1 Swine
Flu Virus Patented by Medimmune Back in 2008

Funny that the Australian government cant even come clean on the
actual cost yet they have put in an order for 21 million H1N1
vaccinations and there are only 21 Million people in the country!

If that is not starting to look like mandatory vaccination then
what is? Why would the Government buy 21 Million Vaccines at a
cost they can not even tell the tax payers of Australia about if
they didnt have a plan to max vaccinate? You be the judge
http://getresponse.com/click.html?x=a62b&lc=lDfv&mc=f&s...
Federal Health Minister Nicola Roxon says near the end of the
article and we quote

Ms Roxon was unable to put a precise figure on the cost of the
vaccine.

"There are some confidentiality issues. We have a private
contractual agreement with CSL for the priority provision for
this vaccine," she said.

"I have made clear on the record before that it is over $100
million. It is not appropriate for us to be itemizing the exact
cost, given the commercial interests that are also at stake."

Personally we find that very interesting that the government who
has gone into contract with CSL can not give the Australian
people (who will be consuming the vaccine should they choose to
have it) an honest answer of what this vaccine is going to cost
the tax payers nor the real facts behind the vaccine.

It is really interesting that CSL the makers of the vaccine have
posted a tidy 63% profit also:
http://getresponse.com/click.html?x=a62b&lc=lDfU&mc=f&s...


Some more interesting sites, articles & videos worth reading
& Watching before you make your choice to be vaccinated.

http://getresponse.com/click.html?x=a62b&lc=lDf5&mc=f&s...
http://getresponse.com/click.html?x=a62b&lc=lDfk&mc=f&s...

http://getresponse.com/click.html?x=a62b&lc=lDfY&mc=f&s...

http://getresponse.com/click.html?x=a62b&lc=lDfu&mc=f&s...
http://getresponse.com/click.html?x=a62b&lc=lDfx&mc=f&s...
http://getresponse.com/click.html?x=a62b&lc=lDfT&mc=f&s...
http://getresponse.com/click.html?x=a62b&lc=lDfc&mc=f&s...
http://getresponse.com/click.html?x=a62b&lc=lDfp&mc=f&s...
http://getresponse.com/click.html?x=a62b&lc=lDfs&mc=f&s...
http://getresponse.com/click.html?x=a62b&lc=lDf1&mc=f&s...
- action you can take if you are a US citizen
http://getresponse.com/click.html?x=a62b&lc=lDfb&mc=f&s...

http://getresponse.com/click.html?x=a62b&lc=lDf3&mc=f&s...
- Bioterrorism Evidence - 134page document
http://getresponse.com/click.html?x=a62b&lc=lDfN&mc=f&s... - US troopers reacting
to flu vaccine

US National Vaccine Information Center
http://getresponse.com/click.html?x=a62b&lc=lDf7&mc=f&s...
http://getresponse.com/click.html?x=a62b&lc=lDfd&mc=f&s...
http://getresponse.com/click.html?x=a62b&lc=lDfq&mc=f&s...

Other non relevant Articles about what is going on right now:
Ok, what can you do?

Choose to take it or choose not to take it? Your choice of
course.

If you do decide to take it please follow Dr Mercolas steps
in this video -
http://getresponse.com/click.html?x=a62b&lc=lDfP&mc=f&s...

If you dont decide to take it, stand up and be counted now,
please! Please tell everyone you love and care about what is
really going on with the H1N1. There is a game being played by
the powers to be and now more than ever before, the people of the
world need to stick together to defeat the barrage that is about
to be onslaught to the worlds people.

Dont believe us that there are some serious games going on?

Even world renown actor and bad boy Charlie Sheen has stood up
addressing President Obama asking questions about so many things
in an Address on the anniversary of the 9/11 bombing see:
http://getresponse.com/click.html?x=a62b&lc=lDfg&mc=f&s...

Dont know who is really controlling the world right now?
Watch this video and make up your own mind.
http://getresponse.com/click.html?x=a62b&lc=lDfn&mc=f&s...
- on the right hand side of the video you will see a lot more to
watch. Feel free to research more at your own free will
Believe what you will from it

We believe there is a game being played in a big way right now
and you need to know about it to assist you with the decisions
you make for you and your family and to take action.

If what you have read and watched has you wanting to take action
and you live in Australia then Michael Bending of Alliance for
Health Freedom Australia has a petition against mandatory swine
flu vaccination on his site, he is aiming for 100,000 signatures
and has only just posted it so there are less than 1000 so far.

He needs as many health-wise people to sign this petition and
send the message to Rudd and Roxson that mandatory vaccinations
are TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE.

The link is:
http://getresponse.com/click.html?x=a62b&lc=lDfD&mc=f&s...

Read the letter on the right hand side along with review the
links in the letter. You can also send a copy of the letter to
your local member if you live in Australia.

If you are not from Australia, research this more in your local
country and make a stand now!

Please take action with your research today time is ticking
fast!

Please take it upon yourself to research the internet in your
own country. Please google any of the following; H1N1
Vaccination H1N1 vaccine H1N1 H1N1 Update
H1N1 Forced Vaccinations to get you started.


Please pass this message on to as many as possible before it is
too late.

Thank you for reading and researching this very important topic.

Love and blessings,

DO Management Team


D.O. International, No. 14 Robinson Road, #13-00 Far East Finance Building, Republic of Singapore, 048545, Singapore
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northernlights Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 08:17 PM
Response to Original message
48. HELLOOOO -- There was no vaccine for this strain in April
The first outbreaks were only recognized as a new strain in April. The vaccine wasn't developed until around August, when testing *began.* The vaccine was tested on volunteers who were subsequently monitored for side effects and had their blood tested periodically for antibody titers to determine effectiveness of dose levels. The testing was not on ships where the subjects then take off around the world without follow up.

Nothing in the CBS source article mentions that the crew was vaccinated for this strain. Probaby because there was no vaccine available. This is just an ordinary outbreak with the expected mortality level. :eyes:
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midnight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 09:10 PM
Response to Reply #48
56. Since the military has been managing this information, it is really
difficult for me not to dismiss this connection. They tell us what they want us to know.
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northernlights Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-28-09 09:53 AM
Response to Reply #56
67. I seriously doubt the military was "managing the information"
of the flu outbreaks in rural Mexico back in March and April.

The military is "managing the information" of the flu outbreaks on military ships, not civilian outbreaks around the world. Which, frankly, is SOP. The military always "manages the information" around military affairs. Just like the government "manages information" and companies "manage information."

I repeat -- there was no vaccine for this virus in April. It was only just being identified as a previously unseen strain back in April. There is plenty of public documentation -- such as published reports of the early scientific studies documenting its dna profile -- the prove it was a new strain of virus.

Furthermore, the US Government contracted -- and that is readily available public information -- several firms to develop and manufacture the vaccine for it. None of this so-called report makes any sense given the public information that has been published for months now.

Seriously, save the tinfoilhat stuff for things that don't have such a *huge* documentation trail.
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Why Syzygy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-28-09 12:02 PM
Response to Reply #67
70. Are you sure about that?
That pesky (corporate owned) MSM.


http://www.inloughborough.com/news/096969/World-first%2...
World-first swine-flu vaccine trial reveals one dose provides 'strong immune response'
Posted on 03/09/09
University of Leicester


Results from the first swine-flu vaccine trials taking place in Leicester reveal a strong immune response after just one dose.

The pilot study, run by the University of Leicester and Leicester Hospitals, was trialled with 100 healthy volunteers, aged between 18 and 50.

Dr Iain Stephenson, who led the trial at the Leicester Royal Infirmary, said: The clinical trial of Novartis MF59-adjuvanted cell-based A (H1N1) vaccine indicates that the swine flu vaccine elicits a strong immune response and is well-tolerated.


http://www.astrazeneca.com/media/latest-press-releases/...
06 January 2009
MedImmune Submits Marketing Authorisation Application in European Union for Intranasal Vaccine to Prevent Seasonal Influenza
AstraZeneca


About LAIV
Each dose of LAIV is formulated to contain three live attenuated influenza virus strains, which are weakened as to not cause illness: Two Type A influenza strains (A/H1N1 and A/H3N2) and one Type B strain. The vaccine strains are selected annually by the World Health Organization (WHO) based on anticipated circulating influenza strains for the upcoming season. The vaccine is sprayed into the nose, rather than by injection as with other licensed influenza vaccines, where it induces protective immunity.

In the U.S., LAIV is marketed under the trade name FluMist (Influenza Virus Vaccine Live, Intranasal). It was approved by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration in 2003. The vaccine included in the MAA has not been registered in the European Union and is not available outside of the United States.
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uberblonde Donating Member (993 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 08:31 PM
Response to Original message
50. If that's true...
Why are they going to all this trouble to track side effects?

http://www.philly.com/philly/wires/ap/features/health/2...
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Why Syzygy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-28-09 12:35 AM
Response to Reply #50
60. To escape blame, of course.
Edited on Mon Sep-28-09 12:36 AM by Why Syzygy
Did you read this? They are setting up an escape clause. Heart attack? Anaphylaxis? MISCARRIAGE?
It's not the shot! It would have happened anyway! A certain amount of that advice is true. But in order to compare these figures with vaccine recipients, they will have to keep track of each and every shot and adjust statistically. If 50,000 people are vaccinated and 25,000 have heart attacks, we can't just say, "That's Normal"!

And of course the Internet is being vilified ahead of time as well. It still somehow has a dirty reputation; although I'm not aware of any studies that show that people with Internet access are less informed than those who aren't.

And this year! They might determine the link to GBS! Step right up to be a non-paid guinea pig. (they pay test subjects in drug trials)


***
Then there's the glare of the Internet , where someone merely declaring on Facebook that he's sure the shot did harm could cause a wave of similar reports. Health authorities will have to tell quickly if there really do seem to be more cases of a particular health problem than usual.

So the CDC is racing to compile a list of what's normal: 25,000 heart attacks every week; 14,000 to 19,000 miscarriages every week; 300 severe allergic reactions called anaphylaxis every week.

Any spike would mean fast checking to see if the vaccine really seems to increase risk and by how much, so health officials could issue appropriate warnings.

Very rare side effects by definition could come to light only after large-scale inoculations begin , making this the year scientists may finally learn if flu vaccine truly is linked to Guillain-Barre, an often reversible but sometimes fatal paralysis. It's believed to strike between 1 and 2 of every 100,000 people. It often occurs right after another infection, such as food poisoning or even influenza.

But the vaccine concern stems from 1976, when 500 cases were reported among the 45 million people vaccinated against that year's swine flu. Scientists never could prove if the vaccine really caused the extra risk. The CDC maintains that if the regular winter flu vaccine is related, the risk is no more than a single case per million vaccinated.
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Why Syzygy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-28-09 12:26 AM
Response to Original message
57. You know, I'm wondering...
why people choose to be vaccinated.

Are they really afraid of dying? An issue every human has to deal with.

Do they just not want to feel bad? Actually having the flu is one of those things that makes us (immunity) stronger. I wouldn't choose it, but don't feel a need to go to extreme lengths in an effort to avoid it. Just use common sense.

Is it too inconvenient? Don't want to miss work or be less than full force for a few days?

The fear of death can be easily put aside with facts. This is just one study among many that puts mortality into perspective.


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mduffy31 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-29-09 01:51 AM
Response to Reply #57
99. Using that logic
Does that mean we don't need a Tetanus/Diphtheria shot? How about a measles shot? People get it because it helps prevent an illness, and to the infirm often a fatal one.
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Why Syzygy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-29-09 10:25 PM
Response to Reply #99
114. Provide
mortality data for DPT and let's compare it to the flu. Are you one of those black/white thinkers?
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LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-29-09 07:39 AM
Response to Reply #57
102. Yes, We fear dying and illness and pain
Evolution has built that into us, no doubt.

Are you just referring to the swine flu here, or do you honestly think that choosing to be vaccinated against *anything*, including diphtheria, polio, etc. is incomprehensible because we all die anyway?
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Why Syzygy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-29-09 10:26 PM
Response to Reply #102
115. Evolution
has built into us natural defenses for far more than you admit.

As stated above, provide mortality data for DPT and let's compare to that of the flu.
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era veteran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-28-09 06:25 AM
Response to Original message
65. Swine Flu 1976
I got a live virus vaccination in 1976. The Army, my 1st Sgt, made me. I was a short timer and perfectly healthy. He finally told me if I got sick he would bust me. I gave in got the shot at a clinic, not Ireland Army Hospital, at Ft. Knox. After the shot I walked back to my '73 Pinto. Before I got the key in the ignition I was sick. Turned around went back to clinic and they put me in a ward( old yellow WW2 building), not hospital, for 10 days. FUCK YOU 1st Sgt. This has pissed me off for 33 years.So , educate me, is this a live virus vaccination or not?
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-28-09 09:56 AM
Response to Reply #65
68. Damn!
That was an "unfortunate" experience. :wow:
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Why Syzygy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-28-09 11:14 AM
Response to Reply #65
69. The information I've seen
indicates that the nasal inhalant vaccine is live, the injectable is not.
It's a mystery to me why anyone would want to sniff a live virus plus preservatives up their nose.
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Recursion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-28-09 07:10 AM
Response to Original message
66. "Navy hospital in Balboa, Spain"?
There's a "Balboa Hospital" in San Diego (not a "Navy Hospital" as such but takes a lot of Navy personnel and has a lot of Navy doctors), and there's a "Bilbao, Spain", but that's up in the Basque area far from the coast.
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Liberation Angel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-28-09 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #66
71. Balboa Spain is not too far from the coast, but no info on google search
on Navy there.

It is about 100 miles from Atlantic according to google map.

Anyway, anonymous Navy wives could be telling the truth

I haven't listened to the video yet

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Liberation Angel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-28-09 02:18 PM
Response to Original message
72. Anyone know where on the "video" these claims are made?
I find the claim credible, but wanted to hear the actual claims it was based on from the Navy wives threatened to keep quiet.

If there are actual people whose family's are on board under these circumstances, that would be worth knowing as would the truth (or not) of this story
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Liberation Angel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-28-09 02:38 PM
Response to Original message
73. Link to segment of interview
not vouching for any of this but wanted to hear what was being said...


http://concerns.ning.com/forum/topics/captain-cpo-dead-...

For those who don't want to click the link, basically this is a guy being interviewed who is reading an email from a navy wife whose ship was docking in San Diego in the last few days.

a few salient points:

this is a followup to the original story and claims

I have no clue who the players in the interview are (it is a clip)

it sounds credible more or less but one of the people in the loop is ex military intel (or claims to be) and they are pissed that navy personnel are being used as guinea pigs.

They claim that it was a test vaccine that sickened the crew (three other ships also quarantined) and that 16 doctors were brought in to control the outbreak.

They are just guessing that it was a "live virus" vaccine.


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Liberation Angel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-28-09 02:59 PM
Response to Original message
75. FWIW - Ron Paul site has it
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trotsky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-28-09 04:30 PM
Response to Reply #75
84. Ha ha.
Totally figures.

Right-wing paranoid conspiracy embraced by DU anti-science nuts. They don't care what right wing wackos are associated with something, if it says what they want to believe then it's TRUE goddammit!
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-28-09 06:53 PM
Response to Original message
87. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Why Syzygy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-28-09 11:55 PM
Response to Original message
97. The Health Freedom Report
Health Freedom USA and Global Health Freedom = Natural Solutions Foundation
Newsletter reports that this story as told is a hoax.

There is still enough to be concerned about. And it is good to openly discuss these matters.

http://www.healthfreedomusa.org/?p=3582

http://fluboard.rhizalabs.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t...
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SemiCharmedQuark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-30-09 03:23 AM
Response to Reply #97
122. Did you not get your "denial vaccine"?
Edited on Wed Sep-30-09 03:27 AM by SemiCharmedQuark
Having discussions based on info from random blogs that link to the Oath Keepers and Prison Planet is not likely to be productive. I mean, my god, they have an article on how to treat yourself for "vaccine injection".
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LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-29-09 07:24 AM
Response to Original message
100. A most unreliable site and that's putting it kindly
Edited on Tue Sep-29-09 07:26 AM by LeftishBrit
All the info in the article itself seems to be attributed to 'anonymous sources'. But that's not all.

The author's 'related sites' and 'favourite links' include extremely unreliable, right-libertarian, 'New World Order' obsessed, anti-all-government conspiracist sites. Some of them are well-known, like Rense and PrisonPlanet - not to mention LaRouche's site. Some are less so, but even more bizarre.

For example, there is a link to Texe Marrs' 'Promise of Prophecy' site, which advertises a video entitled 'Rothschild's Choice: Barack Obama and the Hidden Cabal Behind the Plot to Murder America

"Chosen by hidden superiors, we discover that President Barack Obama is heir to a terrible Master Plan conceived long ago and now being lethally implemented. Barack Obama has become the ultimate instrument in a dark plot to deconstruct and 'murder' America."


There is also a link to a far-right site called stevequayle.com, which includes articles defending extremists against the government: for example one from Bob Unruh in WorldNutDaily, complaining about the government and the SPLC warning about potential right-wing terrorists:

'It warned of potential terrorism threats from those who:
Oppose abortion
Are returning veterans
Oppose same-sex marriage
Oppose restrictions on firearms
Oppose lax immigration laws
Oppose the policies of President Obama regarding immigration, citizenship, and the expansion of social programs
Oppose continuation of free trade agreements
Are suspect of foreign regimes
Fear Communist regimes
Oppose a "one world" government
Bemoan the decline of U.S. stature in the world
Are upset with loss of U.S. manufacturing jobs to China and India, and more
Department of Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano later apologized to veterans for including them in the list but not to other groups of people, not even when WND also reported later that the "extremism" report was confirmed to have been based on Internet "chatter."

And my favourite gem:

www.freemantv.com Where youll find the latest info on the occult and sorcery in the government.


Overall, this author seems to be in league with some of the nastier viewpoints one can have, and is suspicious of the vaccine because he considers *anything* supported by government to be a conspiracy.

Whatever people's views are about a particular vaccine or medical treatment, surely right-wing conspiracy-sites should NOT be treated as valid sources. They represent a disease more dangerous than either the swind flu or any vaccine against it.
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CrunchMaster Donating Member (308 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-30-09 02:34 AM
Response to Reply #100
119. The site is disinfo... just rightwing nutcakes trying to discredit the Fed
If you haven't noticed... there is a lot of "crazy" coming out of right wing sites as of late.

This is more of the same. The usual preoccupation of right wing nutcases who want to destroy the Federal Government by undermining it with lies and stories like this one.
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SemiCharmedQuark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-30-09 03:18 AM
Response to Reply #100
120. ROFLOL...
Ay....

:facepalm:
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hedgehog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-29-09 07:42 AM
Response to Original message
104. "we are fairly certain this story is genuine - however not 100 percent certain."
Ummm, CDC + WHO vs unknown source repeating unreliable info. What to do, what to do.....
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Broken_Hero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-30-09 03:28 AM
Response to Original message
123. Locking
The source for this is a blog which has taken its claims from a known unreliable conspiracy site. It also claims a vaccination in April, long before any was available, and is thus highly doubtful.

Thanks,
petersond
DU Moderator
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