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Mortality is a pre-existing condition, thus eliminating it, means everybody's in the (risk) pool.

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JohnWxy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 07:34 PM
Original message
Mortality is a pre-existing condition, thus eliminating it, means everybody's in the (risk) pool.
Edited on Tue Sep-22-09 07:46 PM by JohnWxy
If you are going to eliminate the pre-existing condition as a contract condition (i.e. a 'control'), then everybody must pay to play.


The reason for-profit insurance companies have had the "pre-existing" conditions clause in their health insurance contracts is because people always seem to want to get something for nothing. They want to be free to do as they please, ...UNTIL they get into trouble. THEN they are happy to accept help.

The rock climbers, cavers, mountain climbers (you name it) like to "test" themselves against nature. They want to prove their bravery going up against nature's might UNTIL they get into trouble. Then they invoke the "social contract" and are happy for the formerly constraining community to come to their aid. (then dozens of people, some risking their lives, come to save their ass).

It's the same principle when people say, "Why should I pay for health insurance when I don't need any?" Yeah, you're immortal right? And even if you get sick you'll be happy to die a rugged individualist? No, I don't THINK so. They know if they get hit by a bus we won't just shove them to the side of the street and let them die a slow agonizing death. If they get cancer, society will provide the technology and skilled doctors to treat them. We won't ask for cash on demand and deny treatment if they don't have the half a million dollars in their pocket.

George Stephanopoulis (sp?) tried to get Pres. Obama to agree that the cost of being covered by universal health care is a tax. Meaning by that, it's something you are forcing me to pay. "Forced" because Health Insurance is really optional for me (yeah, your THE exception). But unless you are immortal George, it's NOT really optional. You are most likely going to need help (treatment for your health) since virtually nobody gets through life without needing some medical help sometime. What you want to do is 'game' the system, like the rock climber, knowing full well if (when) you get into trouble, someone (society) will come to save your ass.

It's a phony argument since none of us is immortal. It's based in a childish belief that you can "have your cake and eat it too". YOu will need help one day, sooner or later (and you don't get to pick the day!) and saying "Well I'd rather not chip in UNTIL I need help." is gaming the system. What do you say you grow up and enter into the contract with the rest of us and pay your way. It's not a extortion, George, it's a contract. So be a big boy and ante up (you can't have a chance to win the pot (perhaps life saving help) unless you chip in).


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Hello_Kitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 07:55 PM
Response to Original message
1. Sigh. Again with this bullcrap meme about the uninsured.
Contrary to ever-popular belief, the uninsured are not, for the most part, young healthy irresponsible scamps with gobs of extra money that they are selfishly withholding from the insurance system while sticking upstanding moral people like you with the bill for their ski accidents and coke binges. The truth is that vast majority of people with no insurance, including young healthy ones, want insurance and would get it if a) they could afford it and b) the coverage were decent. That is not true of the individual policies that are available on the market today. Young people with no insurance are understandably concerned that mandatory private insurance, even with subsidies, will find a way to shaft them with out-of-pocket costs and various ways to make it difficult and onerous to use the insurance. They have a point and so does former health insurance exec. and whistle blower Wendell Potter, who yesterday on Rachel's show called mandates with no public option a gift to the insurance industry. He knows of whence he speaks.
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JohnWxy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 08:29 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. you're sooo perceptive. Is this the wendell potter your referring to...link
"while sticking upstanding moral people like you" .. try to separate the argument of George Stephanopoulis from the criticism of itin the OP.



http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...



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Hello_Kitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 08:34 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. I'm talking about your words, not Stephanopoulis'.
You're the one characterizing the uninsured as "childish" and "gaming the system".
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JohnWxy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 08:47 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. you're just too smart for me.
and here I thought I was criticising Stephanopoulis' presentation of the situation of those who do consider health care insurance an option (i.e. it's not out of reach to them).

Where is Barney Frank when you need him?
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Hello_Kitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 09:01 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. Maybe you should stop trying to win the Top Snark award and pay attention
those who do consider health care insurance an option (i.e. it's not out of reach to them)

Like the Cadillac driving welfare queens of Reagan lore, the uninsured who could afford coverage but simply choose not to buy it are largely mythical.
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JohnWxy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-23-09 03:58 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. maybe you should take a remedial reading course, or maybe find an IQ above 30. see link
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debbierlus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 08:43 PM
Response to Original message
4. I have no problem with paying a TAX on health insurance as long as none of it goes to profits
Edited on Tue Sep-22-09 08:44 PM by debbierlus
If the government wants to mandate everyone have health insurance and dictate that everyone must pay into it, it should be a GOVERNMENT run plan with no profit. No one should be forced to pay a dime so that CEOs & shareholders make money. Every dime should be spent covering everyone in the program and ensuring that we ALL have EQUAL & ACCESSIBLE health care.

Otherwise, you are forcing people to buy a corporate product that won't gurantee health CARE and forcing them to pay a penalty, if they can't afford the rates for a full coverage plan.

Please see my journal post about mandated private insurance and the real cost of these type of programs, as demonstrated in Massachusetts....

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/debbierlus/32...

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JohnWxy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 08:49 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. indeed. see link:
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Aragorn Donating Member (784 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 10:01 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. that's the point
and it's called Medicare
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