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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 09:49 AM
Original message
The Right is Very Stupid ...
http://www.boomantribune.com/story/2009/8/25/9344/03474

The Right is Very Stupid ...

by Steven D
Tue Aug 25th, 2009 at 09:56:37 AM EST


... or very greedy, or very gullible on the issue of health care. Clearly for executives of insurance companies greed is the predominant factor. Small business owners (and many large ones) who oppose universal health care with a public option are simply stupid, since our current system of providing health insurance for workers through the private sector costs them far more than their competitors in other countries. And the ordinary Joe and Jane the Plumber who rail against socialism and death panels and so forth and so on simply are extremely gullible. Otherwise they would know that one of the the leading causes of individual bankruptcies are the massive expenses of a family medical crisis, and many of those people had insurance.

snip//

Our health insurance premiums outpace the cost of inflation and wage growth and are expected to double by 2020. And that's with companies that do their darnedest to not cover major medical conditions by the use of excluding people with pre-existing conditions ( a somewhat broadly defined term) or the ugly process of rescission where insurance companies use any excuse to cancel your coverage, and where small businesses often see dramatic rises in their insurance costs from year to year.

And not just by insurance companies, but by states too cheap to fully fund their medicaid mandates, thus condemning many people to death if the procedure they need is not covered:

The truth is, healthcare is already rationed in the states – by individuals struggling to afford even basic cover, by companies negotiating (or refusing) benefits, by government agencies trying to balance budgets. For many years I lived in a state where the legislature ranked and rated, by price, procedures people on aid could receive, and refused to cover anything deemed too expensive. Even if, as the papers frequently reported, it meant letting adorable little children die. But since it is America, you can shop around. Just across the border in a different state, the legislature decreed that pre-existing conditions could not be excluded or made the subject of increased charges under insurance plans, leading me and many others to migrate a few miles to get a better deal.


And did you know that one in four families in America affected by a family member's cancer condition are delayed needed treatment due to cost barriers? Or that in the last year one third of cancer patients in being treated in America cut pills or skipped doses of their medications? That one quarter delayed a recommended cancer screening, and on fifth did not fill a prescription? The American Cancer Society Cancer Action Network does. I wonder why more Americans don't know these facts? Why doesn't our wonderful liberal media report the truth about how lousy are health care is compared to the rest of the developed world? Why do they give more media attention to people spreading known lies about health care reform proposals than they do to informing us of the massive media effort of health insurance companies to make sure those lies get spread?

Those are all rhetorical questions by the way.

And what is the conservative solution to our health care mess? Cutting more taxes and eliminating regulations on insurance companies and getting rid of the parts of our system that are already "socialized" (i.e., the VA system and Medicare for people over 65). How many people outside of the folks who religiously watch Fox News sincerely believe that is the way to go? And they call progressive demands for a public option to increase competition in the health care field and keep the insurance companies honest "socialism?" I call their solution a prescription for mass murder by spreadsheet (to steal a phrase from nyceve). The wealthy would continue to get the care we need. The rest of us would pay for health care that was literally a con, because as soon as we really needed it the "fine print" in our unregulated insurance policies (assuming we had a policy) would find an exclusion which would allow our insurer to (sadly, of course) deny us the life saving medical treatment for which we and our loved ones thought we had paid.

The real question is why anyone still buys this bogus propaganda about "socialized medicine" and "death panels" and "rationing" when we already have the worst, most expensive health care system in the developed world. Maybe PT Barnum was right: there really is a sucker born every minute, and most of them seem to come out of the womb chanting USA! USA! USA!
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auditguy Donating Member (69 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 10:04 AM
Response to Original message
1. you know...calling people that disagree with you stupid
Edited on Tue Aug-25-09 10:08 AM by auditguy
(second complete sentance above) may not be a good tactic...not to mention it's not an arguement...just a cheap shot.

not everyone operates from the same assumptions...automatically ascribing bad motives to oponents is a weak way to change things
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 10:06 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. You're right, I prefer the word ignorant. nt
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unpossibles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 10:16 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. Well, at first it would be rude
But honestly, if someone repeatedly ignores reality and consistently uses lies and hyperbole to defend people who are literally screwing them over, well..

It becomes pretty stupid. Harsh? yes, but should we continue to coddle stupidity in this country?
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auditguy Donating Member (69 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 10:23 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. a change might be in their best interest economically,
Edited on Tue Aug-25-09 10:31 AM by auditguy
or maybe they would get better care...but if they value choosing their own plan (from employer, or seperately)or not having a plan that covers certain things more, that's where they'll fall..their choices (employer v. seperate, left v. right) may not make sense from one perspective, but would from another


on edit: added things people might value



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unpossibles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 10:42 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. then perhaps they should try using that as a message instead of things like
death panels, xenophobia, and every other fabrication the right is still using despite being debunked.

And perhaps the most stupid part of it is that this plan is not even a drastic change. You CAN still keep your current plan. To complain about that is...well, it's pretty darn ignorant. To keep complaining about it after it's been explained ventures into "stupid" land. I don't consider someone I disagree with to be inherently stupid or ignorant or bad or anything - but when people can't seem to use basic logic, facts, and other reasoning, then I don't see the point in patting them on the head and saying "bless your heart."
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Tsar_Bomba Donating Member (194 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 10:49 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. Conservatives don't care about losing benefits or money, it's
about wanting that others go without and they have more.
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auditguy Donating Member (69 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 10:51 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. a good example of ascribing bad motives to a whole group...
good thing they aren't all the same race or anything like that...
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unpossibles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 11:51 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. hmm. Concern duly noted
have fun storming the castle.
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TankLV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 11:01 AM
Response to Reply #1
9. "sorry" if it chaffes YOUR butt and describes YOU...
BUT THESE PEOPLE - YOUR FRIENDS - ARE STUPID.

PERIOD.

THERE IS NO OTHER WAY TO DESCRIBE IT.

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emilyg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 01:34 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. They think the same of you and
your friends.
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unpossibles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 04:13 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. that is true and not surprising
Edited on Tue Aug-25-09 04:13 PM by unpossibles
but...


Studies have shown that the incompetent almost never correctly estimate their own abilities.
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santamargarita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 05:49 PM
Response to Reply #1
18. I prefer right-wing asshole myself - welcome to DU
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scarface2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 08:54 PM
Response to Reply #1
21. you are correct sir
should have called them moronic cretins instead!!
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raccoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 10:09 AM
Response to Original message
3. Rec'd. Cmon, yall, rec, let's get this on Greatest. nt
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Ajaye Donating Member (60 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 12:02 PM
Response to Original message
11. I agree
Edited on Tue Aug-25-09 12:13 PM by Ajaye
They are flat out stupid. No other word captures it so completely.

The people blabbing about rationing health care, saying our health care system is so great that people from socialized medicine countries come here for treatment, saying there are death panels, saying there are death books, saying we cannot afford it even though they thought we could afford tax cuts for millionaires, saying that universal health coverage with a public option is a government takeover and tantamount to Nazi policies...ARE STUPID!!!! or CYNICAL!!!! or WILLFULLY IGNORANT!!!! or NOT STUPID BUT GREEDY!!!!

Hey, what do you know! That person who said we cannot call them all stupid because that's just not nice and we cannot engage in civilized dialog with people if we keep calling them stupid is kinda right, but for the wrong reasons....

They're NOT all stupid. Some of them are willfully ignorant, greedy, cynical, or batshit crazy. Some of them are woefully uneducated, some of them have zero analytical abilities. Some of them are so indoctrinated in the cult of Ayn Rand or free market fundamentalism or Christian fundamentalism that they literally cannot think outside their little boxes.

So, I take it back. Stupid is not a one size fits all description when it comes to the deathers and free marketers and get your government hands off my Medicare types. But it comes pretty damned close.

I have ZERO respect for anyone who engages me in a factually inaccurate, propaganda laden, analytically challenged, hypocritical, hyperbolic, ad hominem attacking, fact denying argument. And frankly, I have not heard a single argument from anybody opposed to universal health care that makes one bit of sense at all.

Here is a one word description for them all, the greedy, the cynical, the partisans, the morons, the reality challenged: WRONG. They are simply wrong. The same way that the anti-abolitionists were wrong. The same way people in favor of apartheid were wrong. The same way the people who argued it's just hunky dory to employ 8 year olds for 60 hours a week were wrong. Wrong the same way the people who thought women shouldn't have the vote were wrong. Wrong the same way the people who opposed social security and Medicare were wrong.

They are on the wrong side of history and the wrong side of ethics and the wrong side of effective government. Simple as that. The MSM cuts these morons and assholes enough slack, we don't have to here. We should be free to spew our righteous indignation and disgust to the max on this board. We're calling people stupid on this board. On Freeperville they are talking about killing people, including elected officials. They are calling us much worse names than stupid. They are talking about violent revolution. They are taking those lies and spinning them into fantastic conspiracies that boggle the imagination.

So, go over there and tell them to stop advocating violence before you start chastising us here.

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Wendio Donating Member (37 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 01:53 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. Excellent comment.
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trekbiker Donating Member (724 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 05:49 PM
Response to Reply #11
17. you nailed it!
very well said. your comment deserves its own thread.
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Tutankhamun Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 02:45 PM
Response to Original message
14. There are a lot of stupid people in America.
Edited on Tue Aug-25-09 02:48 PM by Tutankhamun
They are also ignorant, but their stupidity fuels the ignorance and vice versa.

Good comment Ajaye. Welcome to DU!
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 03:17 PM
Response to Original message
15. But just imagine the profits
Edited on Tue Aug-25-09 03:47 PM by Enthusiast
the insurance industry stands to gain if we don't enact health care reform!

Even if it comes down to armed conflict I don't believe we are going to see meaningful reform.
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 06:58 PM
Response to Original message
19. Excellente! Babylon rules! n/t k*r
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wisteria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 07:45 PM
Response to Original message
20. The RW is all of the above. n/t
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