The hunt for the last Nazis

[IndianaGreen]

Something we can all agree on, that justice delayed is justice denied.

The hunt for the last Nazis

Page last updated at 13:54 GMT, Monday, 23 March 2009

The US has deported to Austria a former Nazi death camp guard, Josias Kumpf. The move sheds light on the continuing search - in some countries, at least - for World War II war criminals. Mario Cacciottolo examines a hunt now entering its final phase.

"Looking for Nazi war criminals is the ultimate law enforcement race against the clock."

Eli Rosenbaum, director of the Office of Special Investigations (OSI) in the United States, has a list of thousands of suspects.

But working out whether any of them are alive and in the US is a laborious job.

A full check could take 100 years at current rates, he says - but in 10 years "the World War II biological clock will come to an end".

Contrary to popular belief, most former Nazis did not go into hiding after the war. Most did not even change their name.

There were some - such as Adolf Eichmann, who planned the transport of Jews to death camps, and Dr Joseph Mengele, Auschwitz's "Angel of Death" - who slipped away amid the post-war chaos and assumed false identities.

But the majority simply took off their uniforms, went home, and got a job.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_depth/7857753.stm

[Dr.Phool]

1. My mother worked with John Demjanuk at Ford.

Yeah, they found out eventually that he wasn't Ivan the Terrible, but he was a death camp guard. I also remember how the Ukrainian community in Cleveland supported him.

[IndianaGreen]

2. The Ukrainian community supported Demjanjuk because their anti-Communism

caused them to reject evidence submitted from communist countries as to Demjanuk having joined the SS, as many Ukranians did towards the end of the war.

German investigators have taken another look at the case:

U.S. pensioner charged after being accused of overseeing 29,000 murders as a Nazi guard

By Allan Hall

Last updated at 8:30 PM on 11th March 2009

A retired U.S. car worker has been charged with more than 29,000 counts of accessory to murder for his time as a guard at the Nazis' Sobibor death camp.

John Demjanjuk, 88, will face trial in Germany with prosecutors now seeking his extradition from the U.S.

'In this capacity, he participated in the accessory to murder of at least 29,000 people of the Jewish faith,' Munich prosecutors said in a statement today.

Kurt Schrimm, Germany's chief war crimes investigator, said new files and witnesses provided 'a great chance' to make Demjanjuk 'face up to the responsibility for his crimes'.

Dr Schrimm says he can prove that the man born Ivan Demjanujuk served in Sobibor extermination camp, which was in Nazi-occupied Poland, for six months in 1943.

To give a sense of the scale of the killings carried out there between March 1942 and October 1943 an estimated 250,000 people were murdered.

'We have managed to obtain hundreds of documents and have found a number of witnesses who spoke out against Demjanjuk,' said Dr Schrimm.

'For the first time we have even found lists of names of the people who he personally led into the gas chambers. We have no doubt that he is responsible for the death of over 29,000 Jews.'

He said a trial would take place in Munich, Germany, because 1,900 victims were thought to be German Jews.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1160877/U-S-pensioner-charged-accused-overseeing-29-000-murders-Nazi-guard.html

[Diclotican]

10. IndianaGreen

IndianaGreen

It doesn't matter how lang time it goes before the guilty one is been arrested.. Even if the "biological clock" is going away with most of them now.. Many of them must bee in their 80s, and 90s.. They may never live long in prison, but at least the victims of their horrible crimes is been put into the cort answering for their crimes...

And Sorbinor was one of 4 pure death camps.. Their only thing was to murder, by gas most of their inhabitants.. And Belcek, Sorbinor Treblinka and one that I do not remember was doing that so good that in 1943-44 the camps was razed to the ground, and the document of what they have been doing send back to germany... And of course it was also because the WAR was going the wrong way - the russian was coming and the evidence of their crimes was mounting.. The prisoners who was not murdered, was ordered to go from the death camps, and the Concentration camps. and was ordered to mars on something named "the road to death" . The meaning was that the prisoner literally should walk to their death.. And everyone who do not managed to walk in the collum, was killed by the guards.. Thousands, maybe ten of thousands was killed that way.. Others was murdered when they managed to get to german proper, thousands was killed by illness when they was coming to the overgrown camps in Germany.. To the end of the war the Concentration camps was working overtime to murder as many as possible before the war end.. Even as the Reich was falling apart, death camps was working overtime...

They who was guards should NEVER be safe, they should to their death day never be sure to not be prosecuted for their crime.. To many is killed, to many is murdered by them.... And if it exist a Hell, I really hope any one of them, who have not been arrested and put to prison should be there, the first minute they are dead.. They deserve it very well

Diclotican

[winyanstaz]

3. And some came to America to be Cia while others rode the rails as hobos...

back in late 1948, a drunk at a waterfront bar in Minnesota meet a german man named Henry Miller. He brought him home to his family, a wife and two baby girls.
Henry Miller convinced the woman to run away from her abusive drunk husband with him..and then proceeded to torment the woman and the kids for a few years. He beat them and starved them and they all traveled all the way to Wyoming at one point.
The lady meet someone else that ran Miller off and the family moved..and the night after they moved..someone burned down the little house they moved out of in the middle of the night.
A few years later Henry showed up again at the woman's home just walking up to the children playing in the back yard.
He was very skinny and run down and had been riding the rails..and he was demanding that she and the girls once again travel with him..but he was run off again by the womans husband..never to be seen again.
Years later, after seeing photos of a famous Nazi named Henry Mueller, he was recognized at once by the two children (the lady had died) and his whereabouts reported to the Nazi hunters as best as the two children ( now long since grown up), but nothing was ever come of it.
How do I know this? I was the youngest of the two girls and I knew it was Miller the moment I saw him. Skinnier and older but him. You never forget such evil.
I think he used my mom and us kids as a cover for his movements.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

4. How scary for you! nt

[IndianaGreen]

5. Wow, what a story!

Was it this man?



There is no proof he was ever killed. He was among those the CIA used against the USSR shortly after Germany's surrender. Of all the Nazi war criminals, he is the one who has covered his tracks the best. It is hard to find a good close up photo of his, as if it was intentional.

The CIA file on Heinrich Mueller, chief of Hitler's Gestapo and a major Nazi war criminal, sheds important new light on U.S. and international efforts to find Mueller after his disappearance in May 1945. Though inconclusive on Mueller's ultimate fate, the file is very clear on one point. The Central Intelligence Agency and its predecessors did not know Mueller's whereabouts at any point after the war.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/biography/Hmueller.html

[Wednesdays]

13. Another photo of Heinrich Mueller

[winyanstaz]

16. yes but he called himself Miller

He only spoke german when he was mad..but he was mad a lot.
He also was much more gaunt in the face, like he had missed a lot of meals. But yes that is him.

[emilyg]

6. Wow.

[jeff30997]

8. How horrible.

:scared:

[LeftishBrit]

15. How absolutely terrifying

I am glad at least that you and your family escaped in the end - but how horrible. And that he was never caught.

[grillo7]

17. That's crazy...I'm glad you got out! n/t

[waltfl]

18. OK, lets get this straight

I've been reading the messages in here for many years, and you finally gave me a reason to register and post. I do have a reason to ask the following, if you don't mind:

You are seriously telling us that Gruppenführer and General of the SS Heinrich Müller was your Mom's fiance in the USA in the 50ies, and lived here as a hobo?

First, there were two Heinrich Müllers, both were SS generals:

SS Gruppenführer Heinrich Müller born on 28/04/1900, Chef Amt IV RSHA, the so called Gestapo

SS-Gruppenführer Dr. Dr. Heinrich Müller, born 06/07/1896, President of the "Rechnungshof"

Which one was your Mom's fiance?

Second. You say you reported Müller's existence and whereabouts to "nazi hunters", but nothing came out. Well, Müller was a really big deal, and it is hard to imagine that nothing came out. After Heydrich,s death he was basically the third in line after Hitler and Himmler, and participant of the Wannsee conference, the meeting on 01/20/1942, where the extermination of the jews was decided.

If you have more info about this, please share.

[winyanstaz]

19. Sorry I did not come back to look at this post sooner and reply to your post.

First, he was not my Mom's fiance. He was a man that was supposedly helping her escape my father who was a violent man with a drinking problem at the time. It was around 1948 or 49 he meet my mom and by 1950 she has gotten away. It was later in the 60's he showed up briefly again in the back yard.
Henry was keeping us around for some reason but he was very mean to us all. He usually kept one of us kids with him most of the time so Mom couldn't leave.
He beat my older sister with a belt for counting the squares in the kitchen tile..he said she was thinking bad thoughts about him. He would hold me face first in a cold shower if I cried. He did terrible things to my Mom and she was forever afraid of him.
Thats the main reason I remember him at such a young age. I recognized him again imminently when I saw him again walking into the back yard of where we were living...which was around 8 years later.
I have found the photo on line of the Henry Miller we knew. His face was much thinner when he was around back then and the second time we saw him he was skinnier still and ragged looking. I assumed it was because he was riding the rails.
We had a lot of hobo's in those days that got off the trains near to our house as we were before the yards and the hobos didn't want to get caught. Mom had mentioned that sometimes he took off on the railroad cars but he always came back so I just assumed he was riding them again. I have no actual proof he was riding the rails again the second time he came into our lives however.

Here is the link to the man my sister and I know as Henry Miller.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/biography/Hmueller.html

My mom called him "The Dutchman" and as I said, he always would start cursing in german whenever he was stressed. He would hide in the house mostly when he was with us.
My older sister and I have talked about him and we think our Dad must have meet him at the bars at the docks and brought him home.
When I saw his photo I tried to photo-shop it to show the weight loss and it was just uncanny accurate. It gave me the creeps just seeing him again.
I don't know who my sister tried to tell but I found a place on line that was about a nazi hunter and I wrote an email to them. I never heard anything back. The site was about a Jewish nazi hunter that was very old himself. I think he died around that time but am not sure of that.
Thats about all I know about it.

[roughsatori]

7. Thank you for posting. I am re-reading:

"Degenerate Art: The Fate of the Avant-Garde in Nazi Germany." It is a wonderfully researched and quality art book. It is hard to find, out of print, I think. Last time I saw it, they wanted 2 hundred dollars for the book. It includes photos of the actual exhibit that the Nazi's sent town to town. There is also a run down of the artists whose work was in the show, as well as pictures of their work and information what happened to them.

[pnorman]

9. Entartete Kunst (Degenerate art)

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After the exhibit, paintings were sorted out for sale and sold in Switzerland at auction; some pieces were acquired by museums, others by private collectors. Nazi officials took many for their private use: for example, Hermann Göring took fourteen valuable pieces, including a Van Gogh and a Cézanne. In March, 1939, the Berlin Fire Brigade burned approximately 4000 works which had little value on the international market.<32>

A large amount of 'degenerate art' by Picasso, Dalí, Ernst, Klee, Léger and Miró were destroyed in a bonfire on the night of July 27, 1942 in the gardens of the Galerie nationale du Jeu de Paume in Paris
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Degenerate_art

pnorman

[RedstDem]

11. Bringing to justice all the worlds war criminals is a just goal

But, unfortunately, this will not happen in any of our lifetimes.
We can hope Israel, America, Russia, etc. would want to have credibility on the issue by offering forth their war criminals, from WWII and on, but that will never happen.

Too bad, the world would be much better off...

[formercia]

12. My father was one of the first US troops to arrive at Dachau.

They dealt with the SS guards on the spot.

Unfortunately, they were just little fish.

[byronius]

14. Excellent Post. Thanks.