"Gramma, do you think I could grow up to be president?"

[TechBear_Seattle]

Get more David Horsey at http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/horsey/archives.asp

[YOY]

1. and this is one of his finest selling points

If not the biracial guy getting the nomination then the middlclass guy getting the nomination.

If not that then the single parent guy getting the nomination.

Most of all the Democratic DNCer getting the nomination.

[pnwmom]

7. Wouldn't the same kind of thing applied to Hillary?

You mentioned the "biracial guy," the "middleclass guy," and the "single parent guy."

Sounds like you forgot a whole gender.

[YOY]

8. That was her only selling point.

Her campaign tactics did not speak well for her.

[pnwmom]

9. But not to you, apparently, since you only think of "guys" as President.

:shrug:

[hokies4ever]

12. No, just people with sane policies and campaign tactics

You should act presidential if you want to be President.

[pnwmom]

20. I was referring to post #1. n/t

[YOY]

29. Wow you really know how I think! Watta mindreader!!! You should take the show on the road!

:sarcasm:

Sorry, but really. Believe it or not most DUers had no sexism involved in their decision making process.

Did you?

Now please: let it go and lets work towards getting the democratic nominee in the Whitehouse. McCain isn't going to be an easy victory. The media won't let him be.

[DavidDvorkin]

2. If you were born in this country, my dear

Otherwise, forget it.

[pnwmom]

10. You make that choice when you immigrate here. And you know that one of

your children COULD be President some day.

Doesn't seem like a bad deal to me.

[DavidDvorkin]

13. You don't make that choice if you're an infant

[pnwmom]

18. No, your parents make it for you. n/t

[DavidDvorkin]

16. Suppose the Constitution said that only men could be president

I'm not talking about the prejudices of the electorate. Suppose the Constitution including being male as one of the legal requirements.

Would you be okay with that? Because you could tell a woman that, if she has at least one son, then one of her children could be president some day. Would that also seem like not a bad deal to you?

[pnwmom]

21. I don't think anyone who was born in this country should be treated any

differently from anyone else.

But I don't have a problem with making that distinction for people who chose, or whose parents' chose, to immigrate here.

[DavidDvorkin]

23. As an immigrant, I strongly disagree

I shouldn't be treated differently from any other citizen.

[pnwmom]

24. As I said, it was either your choice or your parents to come here on those terms.

Blame your parents, if they made that choice for you and you're not happy about it.

I wouldn't move to Canada or somewhere in Europe and expect to be able to run for Prime Minister or President. I don't know why people coming to the U.S. would expect that.

[DavidDvorkin]

26. Wrong.

Your xenophobia -- so common on DU -- has led you to a false assumption. In fact, other countries are far more sensible about this than the U.S. is.

The only legal requirement for being Prime Minister of Canada is that you be a Canadian citizen of voting age (18 years of age).

[pnwmom]

27. I said that I wouldn't expect to move to another country and to be eligible

to lead the country. And that is true.

I didn't know what the rules are in Canada. I don't know what they are in Europe, either, but I bet there aren't many that have the same policy as in Canada.

Maybe you should have immigrated to Canada?

[DavidDvorkin]

28. I believe Canada is the rule and the US the exception

Xenophobes go to my Ignore list. Goodbye.

[rch35]

33. i dont know who you are, but youre a fucking idiot.

have a good day.

[LibDemAlways]

3. Gramma's response requires some tweaking:

"You're a boy. Yes, you can."

(I've got on my flameproof suit. Please be kind. I supported Edwards and then no one until this thing was decided. I will vote Obama.)

[baldguy]

5. Hillary didn't lose because she's a woman.

She lost because she ran an old-style scorched earth campaign, and people are just tired of that. They want change.

[LibDemAlways]

6. Her being a woman was a factor, though. (Not as

much in the primary as it would have been in the general.)I recall that she teared up at one point and the media had a field day with it. Had to keep her emotions in check so she didn't get hammered for not being tough enough.

As I said, I was never a supporter. She's too far to the right for my taste.

[pnwmom]

11. How do you know? How does anyone know?

Fact: the MSM and supporters of other candidates frequently engaged in sexist attacks.

Fact: Obama and Clinton ended up within a couple percentage points in the popular vote.

How do you or anyone else know that some degree of sexism didn't provide Obama with the winning margin?

[baldguy]

14. How do you or anyone else know that some degree of racism didn't provide Clinton with an advantage?

Fact: the MSM and supporters of other candidates frequently engaged in racist attacks.

Fact: Since several states hold caucuses and not primaries, we count delegates - not the popular vote.

[pnwmom]

17. There is no way to know either. But that means you can't say that sexism

did not cost Hillary the election. You can't prove that -- it might have cost her the election. And maybe Obama might have had a bigger lead except for racism. We don't know.

[baldguy]

22. So, we can only look at objective factors

Their policy positions, their public statements, and the way they ran their campaigns.

Their policy positions are almost identical. The other things are different.

Clinton's public statements were meant to be divisive, Obama's were meant to unify.

The Clinton campaign wasn't meant to go beyond Super Tuesday, since she would have won by then. The Obama campaign was meant to run in all 58 primaries & caucuses.

Clinton did not lose because she's a woman. She lost because she alienated too many people and mismanaged her campaign. Therefor she did not win the delegates she needed.

Obama did not win because he's an African-American. He won because he built a broad coalition and managed his campaign well. Therefor he did win the delegates he needed.

[pnwmom]

25. That doesn't logically prove your point. You can't say that something is NOT

a factor simply because it can't be measured. It may be a factor, or it may not be.

I think sexism might have been enough to turn the election, you don't. But neither of us can prove it one way or another.

[polmaven]

15. I couldn't agree more,

pnwmom, except I really think sexism played a fairly large role.

if she showed human emotion, she was too weak to be president. If she kept that hidden away, she was pandering, and afraid to show her feelings.

She "cackled" too much. She and Bill "pimped" Chelsea out in "some weird way". She is a "Bitch" She is a "fu**ing whore". But that was OK, 'cause whore isn't a sexist word in "that context".

The only reason she got as far as she did was because her husband was president.

"Pantsuit, Pantsuit, Pantsuit, Pantsuit, Pantsuit, Pantsuit, Pantsuit, Pantsuit, Pantsuit, Pantsuit", ...She doesn't look good in yellow. Look at the wrinkles!

Part of the trouble is that so many, both here and "out there" don't recognize sexism. They think - Oh well, those words or terms are common usage....how can they be sexist?

Sorry...rant over

[pnwmom]

19. polmaven, you are right

I think it was shocking for many women to see that kind of nastiness -- especially to see the sexism/misogyny of other progressives, from whom we expected better. I'm not surprised when it comes from someone like Limbaugh, but to see so much of it HERE was a bitter disappointment.

[YOY]

31. It's about goddamn time to let it go

n/t

[ShortnFiery]

34. AMEN! You can't have it both ways - you can't use *sexism* as a weapon and then

be surprised when your PERSONAL inadequacies come back to bite you in the a**.

Welcome to the ***real world*** Hill and Bill ... you've been spoiled by Political Power for far too long. :(

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8oRwZQLdhEw

[Skittles]

30. does that explain why we've NEVER had a female president???? n/t

[Skittles]

32. dup

[baldguy]

4. Not with that bunny taking bribes from the Big Candy lobby you can't.

And ELEPHANTS on your lamp? You must be a Republican!