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"Put your sword back into its sheath" -- Conservative Christian slams war

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bunkerbuster1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-08-05 08:17 AM
Original message
"Put your sword back into its sheath" -- Conservative Christian slams war
Edited on Sat Oct-08-05 08:43 AM by bunkerbuster1
All I could say when I read this, at first, was: "Wow."

Then I wanted to say to Ms. Murray what we say to visiting members of our congregation: "Welcome!"

I should note that the last time I even bothered to read this woman's column was a month or so ago, when she'd written a rather snide, some said hateful, piece about the evils of relativism, which she essentially equated with religious tolerance.

Anyway, that "psssssssss" sound you're hearing? That's the last bit of support that the Neocon Death Cult has among sentient individuals of most faiths for their idiotic Iraq adventure.

http://www.ajc.com/saturday/content/epaper/editions/saturday/faith_values_347450a5612c51e30068.html


The little fellow shot me a shy grin, and the thought seized me: "If we don't change our ways, one day this boy may grow into a man who gives his life fighting a war in a foreign land." And breaks his mother's heart. That thought led me to write on a topic I have been avoiding, for fear of the avalanche of angry e-mails it might engender. I think it is high time we admitted, once and for all, that the whole Iraq endeavor was a major blunder, and get our troops out, and fast.

Keep in mind, please, that I am writing this from a Christian perspective, and I just can't see that what is going on in the Middle East can have anything to do with the message that Christ preached.

He was the one, you may recall, who chided his friend when the friend cut off the ear of a soldier who had come to arrest Jesus. His words can't be minced: "Put your sword back into its sheath, for all who take the sword will perish by the sword." And then, Jesus actually heals the man who is his supposed enemy, which was perfectly in keeping with his message. Because he told us to love our enemies and pray for those who persecute us.

Stomping around in the Middle East and trying to root out terrorists, based on the premise that this will somehow make our lives safer, makes no sense at all. How many people would we have to kill worldwide before we would feel safe? The answer is obvious: Life would be like one of those video games, where new bad guys pop up every minute, and you could never really stop waging wars.

There cannot be a war to end all wars because, by its very nature, war gives rise to more violence. Killing someone to avenge a wrong done to you leads to an endless cycle, until someone decides to wave a white flag and say, "Enough."


I'm about to send Ms. Murray a nice email -- [email protected] -- of support. Perhaps you all might consider doing so as well.
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liberalitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-08-05 08:22 AM
Response to Original message
1. Time to pound our swords into ploughshares.....
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Demit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-08-05 08:31 AM
Response to Original message
2. that IS impressive. I hope she's the beginning of a trend.
She speaks in such a down-home logical, common-sense tone. Here's hoping she has a lot of readers.
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speedoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-08-05 08:33 AM
Response to Original message
3. The Coward is neither a Christian nor a Conservative.
The Coward has no idea about what Jesus taught. And any true conservative also knows he is a fraWd.
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rox63 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-08-05 08:37 AM
Response to Original message
4. Actually, she's not an evangelical
If you catch the note at the bottom of the article, it looks like she's Catholic, not an evangelical:
"Lorraine V. Murray's books "Grace Notes" and "How Shall We Celebrate?" are available at www.catholicbookpublishing.com. She works in the Pitts Theology Library at Emory University."

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bunkerbuster1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-08-05 08:40 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. Good catch. Now edited. Well, I was leaning toward calling her
Edited on Sat Oct-08-05 08:41 AM by bunkerbuster1
"Fundamentalist" but that didn't seem right.

Anyway, I welcome her from the dark side, wherever that might have been.
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bunkerbuster1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-08-05 08:39 AM
Response to Original message
5. Ms. Murray's email address
is [email protected]

(it's not readily apparent from the online edition)

Do send her a nice encouraging note, as I just did, if you can. She'll need it. There will be plenty of local, Atlanta-metro, warmongering Fundies who'll consider her a traitor.

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Why Syzygy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-08-05 08:47 AM
Response to Original message
7. Thank you so much for that.
While I do not share your Christian beliefs, I respect them.
This is a beautiful tribute to what it means to honor and respect humantity. Something we need a lot more of.

Way cool. Thanks.
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melnjones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-08-05 09:13 AM
Response to Original message
8. a couple notes...
I like what she has to say overall.

She isn't necessarily a conservative just b/c she's a Christian:-) Some of us are proud Democrats.

But, she made a theological error...Christ's teaching didn't tell us to be "meek" in the sense that most of us understand it, and the whole "turn the other cheek" thing is taken out of context too. The scripture says if someone hits your RIGHT cheek, turn to him also the other. That's an important part of it. In that time, it was unclean to hit anyone with your left hand, so to hit someone with your right hand on the right cheek meant you had to backhand them. Backhanding someone was (and still is, really) a sign of disrespect, and it was only legal to backhand someone who was somehow lower than you, like a slave, a woman, a child, etc. So if someone backhands you, they are not just hitting you but also saying that you are lower than them. To turn to them the OTHER cheek isn't to passively say, "hit me again," it's making yourself an EQUAL. It's saying that the last blow had no effect on you, and forcing the other person to see you as a peer, as an equal, not as someone lower.

Christ didn't promote using violence to fight violence, and he DID promote living as a peacemaker, but he didn't promote passivity. Our modern examples like Rosa Parks, Dr. MLK Jr., hit the nail on the head. And yes, one of them died for it, but death isn't failure. Bodily harm isn't failure. What stronger way is there to make a statement, however unpopular it may be, than to die for what you believe!

I hate seeing Christ misrepresented. If only the church actually understood what he taught! The world would look so very, very different.
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Joe Chi Minh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-08-05 03:45 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. Jeremiah 22:3 : "Practise honesty and integrity; rescue the man
who has been wronged from the hands of his oppressor; do not exploit the stranger, the orphan, the widow; do no violence; shed no innocent blood".

I think Christ calls his sons and daughters to be peace-makers, but that means justice-makers, since there can be no peace without justice.

But the Christian should, paradoxically, be "aggressively" meek. Not inflicting physical harm on the aggressor, still less an innocent party, but, rather, leading with their chins, so to speak. Most notably, this, I believe, takes the form of speaking truth to power, or like Rosa Parkes, witnessing in some other way, to power.

True strength, Christian scripture teaches is passive. The crucified Christ, who spoke of hmself in prophecy through David in a psalm as "being a worm and no man", was actually the Warrior King, the Great King, whose arrival was so keenly awaited. Of Jesus' Passion (passivity, suffering), Paul makes that extraordinary bold proclamation, that he was, in fact, trailing the powers of evil as captives, behind him, in a triumphal procession.

I was going to say that, personally, I tended to place little store on such arcane information as you cite, concerning turning the other cheek (the often cited Camel's Eye gate, for instance, was a medieval structure), but I realise that it precisely illustrates the point.

The prime example of this heroic witness, of all time, at least that was not hidden from the world, imo, was that given by the Austrian farm labourer, Franz Jaegerstetter, who refused to desist from denouncing Hitler and his Nazis. He didn't have any back up, any network of colleagues, like most of the other heroic German and, presumably, Austrian enemies of nazism. But after he was guillotined, he left behind a wife and two young daughters in what must have been particularly difficult circumstances.

It does, however, even have application for the military.

If it was the effect of servicemen's actions that was the measure of their greatness, the crew of Enola Gay would have been the greatest military heroes of all time; but, in fact, those we honour the most highly are those who put themselves in harm's way, at the greatest personal risk.

As regards military leaders, with the exception of Cunningham in the Royal Navy and your McArthur, I don't think most of the generals and admirals in the UK or the US were that good, and some were downright dreadful. But how Nelson, Zhukov and Rommel, who absolutely led from the front, were idolised by their troops.

There is a story that, when Zhukov noticed that a car full of officers hadn't picked up wounded men he, himself, had seen on the road earlier, and had not been able to pick up, he turfed them out and had the vehicle go back to pick them up, and then turned over to them for their use.

When the first Allied prisoners were brought to Rommel in the desert campaign, he ordered that they should be treated with decency and respect, as honourable foes. And when Montgomery arrived in N. Africa, understandably morale-wise, he had to order the 8th Army to take down and destroy the photos of Rommel, "The Desert Fox" they had put up in their tents.

Ironically, despite the absence of the kind of atrocities perpetrated in Russia, the fighting there was as fierce as in any campaign. I think most of us would consider ordinary battle-field bayoneting atrocious enough. And surely that's true.






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northerdar Donating Member (106 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-08-05 09:19 AM
Response to Original message
9. I have sent her an email and thanking her. can anyone
nominate this so she can get more coverage and more emails. I don't think I can . Not enough of posts by me.
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ray of light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-08-05 09:41 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. kicked and nominated!
(just for you...) Welcome. Just click the nominate button and see if it works. I think you can nominate, but can not start your own thread header yet.

Working on letter now too...
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bunkerbuster1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-08-05 10:31 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. All I can do is thank you for emailing her.
I can't nominate my own post, which is as it should be of course...
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lildreamer316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-08-05 03:33 PM
Response to Original message
12. Now THAT is the Christianity that I grew up believing in!
I moved to other beiliefs for many reasons; but please, Christians of DU,do not think I do not know of what I speak....THAT is the true practice of what the enligtened one Jesus taught. Maybe more are coming out of their fog.........
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I Have A Dream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-08-05 08:05 PM
Response to Original message
14. Great post! Thanks for sharing it. n/t
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Catfight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-09-05 11:11 AM
Response to Original message
15. She's 5 years late. nt
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