Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

There is No Iraq (Cenk Uygur)

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Editorials & Other Articles Donate to DU
 
phantom power Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 03:10 PM
Original message
There is No Iraq (Cenk Uygur)
Whether people want to leave or stay, the assumption is that they have what is best for Iraq in mind.

But there is no Iraq.

Now, the question isnt whether our troops stay or withdraw. Neither action would help towards a long term solution because we are headed the wrong way. If we stayed a thousand years, we couldnt keep Iraq together. If we left now, there would be instant, horrific bloodshed. Neither accomplishes anything.

What we should be doing is working towards a realistic goal a relatively peaceful transition towards three different countries in the area. We might not be able to keep these people together but we could probably help them to separate.

Lets start fighting a fight we can win. Lets create countries that people care about and are willing to protect not only through violence, but also through peace. The Sunnis might not care about keeping Basra or Mosul safe because they are Shiite and Kurdish towns, but they will care about bringing peace to Ramadi and Tikrit once they have ownership of them. Lets give them a reason to care.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/cenk-uygur/there-is-no-ir...

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
Teaser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 03:14 PM
Response to Original message
1. Why 3 countries won't work either...
The Sunni "country" don't have no oil. Just acres and acres of sand.

I have said it many times, and I'll say it again. We have created the worst case scenario in Iraq.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BlueJac Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 03:15 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. you are so right..........and a bunch of wrongs will not help!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BlueJac Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 03:14 PM
Response to Original message
2. Three countries not popular in the region or with Bush
Turkey hates that idea....Sunni land would have no resourses...the wars will go on to the end of time....like in the past. Not that bad an idea though.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
phantom power Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. Still a long-shot...
But it's an interesting idea. Maybe the odds are 100-to-1 against, but the odds against a unified Iraq are more like (10^1000)-to-1.

I agree that the most likely outcome, no matter what we do, is continuing sectarian wars. Maybe one sect will destroy the others, and leave something like Iran in it's wake. That would require genocide, but the winner might be left with a stable country by default.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ediacara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #2
9. The Sunni area isn't completely resource free
But would definately have a lot less oil than the other two "countries." The big road block for this to happen however is Turkey. Turkey would not be down with an independent Kurdistan, and come to think of it neither would Iran. The Iranian and Turkish Kurds would insist that large chunks of those two countries be included in Kurdistan.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
VWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 03:15 PM
Response to Original message
3. I'm beginning to agree with this philosophy
Three different countries wouldn't be ideal (compared to a unified Iraq, which is a pipe dream), but at least their respective sovereignty may provide a small degree of stability.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tech3149 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. Welcome to DU VWolf
I'm no Middle Eastern historian, but Iraq was a fabricated state. The only way it survived in that fashion was with a strong authoritarian leader. The only two choices I see are a return to that authoritarian state (only a benevolent secular dictatorship), or a negotiated separation that would be acceptable to all factions. I've listened to the Young Turks quite a bit and I think Cenks ME heritage provides a good understanding of the way things would play out.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
damntexdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 03:23 PM
Response to Original message
6. No, let's withdraw and ...
let them create the countries that they can. We could warn the Turks not to invade Kurdistan. We could aid the Shia so they might be less allied to Iran. We could even aid the Sunnis, so they don't all die of starvation, without oil revenues. A little foreign aid would be better than billions of dollars each month spent to buy more deaths of U.S. troops.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DinahMoeHum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 03:34 PM
Response to Original message
7. If we leave, we're fucked. If we stay, we're fucked.
Sorry, but there's no nice way to say it.

:evilfrown:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BlueJac Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 03:45 PM
Response to Original message
10. Well if Iraqi's were discussing this on a web site about us........
I don't know how I'd feel........I would probably be fighting with freepers
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 03:58 PM
Response to Original message
11. A position worth considering. This is not a dumb guy.
We are seeing the dissolution of imperial arrangements made
100 years ago and more.

But this comes way behind getting the foreign troops out of
the country. Get the occupying troops out, then you can consider
who needs protection from their neighbors, and start to get
things settled down again.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cassiepriam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 05:51 PM
Response to Original message
12. We have completely destroyed a county.
Edited on Fri Sep-30-05 05:53 PM by cassiepriam
And killed, tortured, raped innocent men, women and children.
Created a civil war that will finish the country off. It is hard to imagine that such evil exists, but that it is my own country haunts me.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Spoonerian Donating Member (131 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 07:43 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Well said.
And you've got to wonder at the impudence and the arrogance of 'mericans who say they're worried about what might happen in Iraq if they pack up and go back home and confine their killing, raping, and torturing to the boundaries of the U.S.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cassiepriam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 07:52 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. Yes, ironic isn't it. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Maat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 10:59 PM
Response to Original message
15. Cenk's a lawyer.
He actually served as a prosecutor for awhile.

I discussed it in an email with him once.

He IS a smart guy.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Sat Apr 19th 2014, 09:39 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Editorials & Other Articles Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC