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Juan Cole on Israel's Plan to use Wall to 'take' All of Arab Jerusalem!

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Chicago Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-11-05 12:35 PM
Original message
Juan Cole on Israel's Plan to use Wall to 'take' All of Arab Jerusalem!
Edited on Mon Jul-11-05 12:36 PM by Chicago Democrat
Chicago Democrat notes:
It perturbs me that this is not allowed to be "Latest Breaking News" simply because it is Israel related. THIS IS BIG NEWS =because= Jerusalem is holy to ALL OF ISLAM and this issue is central to why they hate us.
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JUAN COLE WRITES

Monday, July 11, 2005

Jerusalem and Terrorism

The Ariel Sharon government in Israel has announced that it will build a huge wall on someone else's land through Jerusalem, cutting off 55,000 Arabs from the city (they'll have to go through nasty Israeli checkpoints every day to get into their own city!)

This is land theft on a massive scale. Worse, it is theft on a stage of sacred space that affects the sentiments of over a billion people. Whether Westerners like it or not, Jerusalem is considered by Muslims their third holiest city, and Israeli theft of the whole thing drives a lot of them up the wall. A partitioned Jerusalem where the Arab east is connected to the West Bank is the only route to peace. Sharon in his usual aggressive, grabby way, is trying to make that forever an impossibility.

And, folks, this sort of thing, which the Washington Post didn't even notice, may very well get you and me killed. I think what Sharon is doing is morally and politically wrong to begin with. But I sure as hell resent the possibility that I or my family is going to get blown up because of it.

You want to know what causes terrorism? Well, in part it is caused by deviance, by people so warped that they will take innocent lives in a wicked quest to achieve some political or religious goal. In part, terrorists are like bank robbers. Bank robbers desperatedly want to be rich, but for one reason or another think they are very unlikely to get rich through their ordinary activities. Likewise, terrorists, break the law, both moral and civil, to get what they want. In that sense they are criminals, or, as I say, deviants. But they are not motiveless and do not act out of free-floating generalized hatred for the most part. They have a specific goal in mind.


http://juancole.com /


Chicago Democrat adds:

Until Democrats start dealing with their own complicity in Israeli crimes we will never 1) make progress on this so called 'terror' war 2) win elections based on honesty 3) Not have blood on our hands .

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Wetzelbill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-11-05 12:41 PM
Response to Original message
1. Juan Cole is always interesting
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acmejack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-11-05 12:51 PM
Response to Original message
2. Cole is great!
He really spreads a lot knowledge about things Islamic.
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-11-05 01:03 PM
Response to Original message
3. it`s holy to the christians also...
but with the rapture coming when all the jews are dead, so i guess they could give a shit less. don`t hear much from the great christian george about this now do we? the "christians" in this country are more worried about gays and all that crap than their beloved "jerusalem". ya it`s not latest breaking news and it`s dumped into this forum because of all the flame wars that were started by people who have come and gone over the years...shit i got a several posts removed and my fingers slapped for semantics over this issue. it`s really pretty simple -we backed israel at the expensive of the arabs and we are reaping the whirlwind.
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wurzel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-11-05 01:06 PM
Response to Original message
4. I had never heard of Juan Cole. Thank you for the introduction.
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kenny blankenship Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-11-05 01:36 PM
Response to Original message
5. It isn't just how obssessed OBL is with palestine/israel that matters
Edited on Mon Jul-11-05 01:43 PM by kenny blankenship
OBL is the nutcase fringe even among his own class of extremists. What matters more is that the brutal mistreatment of the Palestinians, and the US Gov.'s tolerance and support of it, continually reminds Arabs and Muslims everywhere of their age-old grievances against the West.

OBL may want to see God's Justice poured out on the decadent West, but he wouldn't have a MOVEMENT of others to command if it were not for the ongoing extermination of the Palestinian people. Add to that the constant jealous intervention in Arab affairs that the American power elite feel is justified by our need for their oil and you have a recipe for a longterm reign of retaliatory terror. Al-Q* has to recruit people who don't already believe the central dogmas of Islamic Revolution. Bush and his policies of driving the Western presence into Islam at gunpoint and of supporting Israel up to the brink of genocide are like the answer to OBL's prayers.

America--and its media in particular--has had less intention of even looking in the direction of the real sources of terrorism, than it had to examine the wisdom of gas guzzling vehicles and its energy wasting patterns of post-urban development during the 1980s and 1990s. The denial and the death just keep mounting. Deep down in its secret heart America seems to be echo the rationale of MacBeth: "I am in blood, stepped in so far that returning were as tedious as go o'er." Blood will have blood is the fate we have chosen pretending neurotically that no other outcome was ever possible.
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Behind the Aegis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-11-05 01:40 PM
Response to Original message
6. Jerusalem is holy to the Jews, too.
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kenny blankenship Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-11-05 03:03 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. did you have a point to make?
Did you have a specific disagreement with Cole's point that the incremental destruction of the Palestinian people is the long running engine of "Arab terrorism"?

Or are you simply saying that since "Jerusalem is holy to Jews, too" that this justifies Israel's attempts to seize ALL of it, no matter what price America or others ultimately will have to pay in blood ?
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Behind the Aegis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-11-05 03:06 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Jerusalem is a holy city to the Jews.
It is not a justification of anything, simply a fact.
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kenny blankenship Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-11-05 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Ah but the first time you said it
you plainly implied an equivalence. Now you've dropped the equal comparison while claiming you weren't trying to make any point at all.
When you erase things you've said, you underline them as the most important part.

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Behind the Aegis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-11-05 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Whatever.
There is an equivalence. The city of Jerusalem is holy to Muslims, Jews, and Christians. You were the one trying to make a point from the statement of fact which was also made by poster #3 who said it was holy to the Christians.
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Chicago Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-11-05 04:55 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Hey maybe you can get this thread dumped too?
Do you have anything new to bring to the topic?
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Behind the Aegis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-11-05 05:00 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. Not a moderator
I can't move threads. I just made a simple statement. Do you disagree with it? That's a rhetorical question, in that I do not need a response.
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Chicago Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-11-05 05:06 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. You're outragious statements are constant flame baiting.
The ONLY purpose is to get Prof Cole censored on this forum.
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Behind the Aegis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-11-05 05:09 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. Outrageous?
Stating Jerusalem is also a Jewish holy site is outrageous? As for Cole, I have said nothing about him here. Nor do I intend to. Continue to misconstrue my statements as you wish.
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Chicago Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-11-05 05:11 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. No here's an outragious statement you made...
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Behind the Aegis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-11-05 05:14 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. On another thread?
BTW, it only went to the thread as a whole not a specific comment of mine. I will not discuss that thread with you here.
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Chicago Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-11-05 05:18 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. You are harrassing me.
STop it now
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Chicago Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-11-05 05:17 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. Being intellectual dishonest. Noone is arguing Jerusalem isn't holy
to the Jews.

Ergo you are intellectually dishonest. This thread is about the Israels WALLING OFF ALL of Jerusalem.


Support that with facts or law. You can't. So you engage in flame bait to get topic dumped.


Just LEAVE ME ALONE or START YOUR OWN TOPICS. I'm not going to let you intimidate me or call me a terrorist. YOU ARE THE ONE who is not arguing fair or being a Democrat. Being intellectually dishonest is an example of not being fair.

The topic is The JERUSALEM WALL in the context of Democratic POLITICS.


You have nothing new to say.. Admit it!
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Behind the Aegis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-11-05 05:33 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. Intellectual dishonesty
Because you said; "Jerusalem is holy to ALL OF ISLAM..." I said "Jerusalem is holy to the Jews, too" Nothing more, nothing less. Then you said; "You're outragious statements are constant flame baiting. The ONLY purpose is to get Prof Cole censored on this forum. My assumption was you were talking about my original statement, but I was wrong, you were talking about a completely different thread. Which is why I asked why my original statement was outrageous.

You say; "This thread is about the Israels WALLING OFF ALL of Jerusalem." I said nothing but "Jerusalem is holy to the Jews, too." I said NOTHING about the walling off of the city.

As a matter of fact, I was discussing this with another poster, when you accused me of trying to "get the thread dumped." You posted to me, I posted back, I don't think that is harassment. Then, you accuse me of being some kind of 'covert' agent.

So, I do admit it...I have nothing further to say to you.
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Chicago Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-11-05 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #14
19. you flame bait every Israeli topic
Are you AIPAC? Is this your job? Are you Mossad maybe?
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Moderator DU Moderator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-11-05 06:23 PM
Response to Original message
21. Locking
This thread has become inflammatory.
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