Chicago area columnist whines about DU.

[Kurovski]

Read to see if you got a mention!


"And then there are the little Ceausescus at DemocraticUnderground.com. I feel a little sheepish about quoting the miserable statements from this miserable Web site; it's almost like going to an insane asylum and writing down the crazy things you hear.

But, as Sun Tzu, the famous ancient Chinese general, wrote, a fundamental rule of war is know your enemy. So let me tell you some of the things they say at DU.

No Exit says: "'Freedom is on the march' in the Middle East, and fascism is on the sneak in the U.S. of A."

BullGooseLoony says: "If anyone tells you that our country is safer because of the war, they're lying."

Stephanie says: "'Liberating Iraq' is just as big a lie as 'finding the WMD' was. Bush Co. is in Iraq to establish a foothold in order to dominate the entire region and its resources. They have no intention of allowing genuine democracies." *snip*

More...

<http://www.starnewspapers.com/star/spedit/col/13-co2.htm>

[imenja]

1. freedom of speech is so inconvenient isn't it

he'll just have to put up with it.

[Syrinx]

2. "I've been writing this column now for precisely two years."

Is he going to share his salary with BullGooseLooney or Stepanie?

[Randi_Listener]

3. Another worthless dogshit columnist with an axe to grind

He can fuck himself sideways with his bullshit.

[ContraBass Black]

76. hmmmm

"fuck himself sideways"

I can't help but wonder at the technical particulars of such an act.

:crazy: :silly:

[mark414]

4. i think its ironic

how he quotes zappa and likens bush's legacy to FDR...

haha zappa and FDR would've hated this motherfucker with as much passion as DUers

[saracat]

7. It is also ironic that he says bush"makes stupidity work for him"!

[Laurab]

79. It is ironic

I found his column to be a prime example of that line.

[Blue Belle]

148. And he calls Liberals out of touch with reality....

Frank Zappa?? FDR in favor of Bush?? What kind of acid flashback is he having? Only in the Cool-aide sipping, faith-based zone does Bush rise to the same level as FDR. What the hell kind of hallucinogen is in that GOP cool-aide anyway??

[porkrind]

162. Frank Zappa would have hated Michael Bowers

Oh the irony.

[Blue Belle]

183. I'm sure FDR would not have been to keen on Bowers either...

I think he would be devastated with what these fascist monkeys are doing to this country - and using FDR's name to promote their agenda is equal to spitting on his gave.

[RedCloud]

211. Global reality praises liberals!

We just live in brainwashed-ville so everyone will want to kill the rest of the world for wanting something other than being our minimum wage slaves.

[Merlot]

5. Those quotes just might get some people thinking

No such thing as bad press...but the writer does sound rather vile.

[Kurovski]

6. One of Mike's early columns was titled

"America's poor: if they're hungry, why are they fat?"

[Judi Lynn]

134. Odd, isn't it? He's a silly, shallow, ignorant man.

Poor people eat a lot of bread, potatoes, rice, etc., etc. I've known two families who were REALLY, REALLY poor, and they relied heavily on starchy products. It's the only way to feel really full on a starvation budget.

He'd better better advised to back away from ridiculing the fallen, the suffering, and the helpless.

[jwirr]

153. Another reason that we, the poor,

eat starchy foods is because they usually are cheaper and they stretch further. Economy stupid, I say to the author of the article.

[KurtNYC]

42. For someone who would seem inclined to quote out of context

or otherwise distort, he took 3 pretty good quotes that stand on their own.

[wryter2000]

70. No kidding

Sometimes some wacko stuff gets said here -- maybe by disruptors. Those quotes are 100% right on.

[Stephanie]

85. thank you!

I don't take back a word of it - Michael Bowers should google "14 enduring bases"

[struggle4progress]

140. Thank YOU for getting him to take a shower. He was getting ripe. eom

[Tyrone Slothrop]

122. That's what I thought when I read the quotes

Especially considering that there is a fair amount of actual crazy stuff found on here at any given time re:conspiracy theories and the like.

That was the best he could come up with?

[Kurovski]

137. Perhaps that's all the editor would allow?

Just a long-shot guess.

[flordehinojos]

8. reading this mike bowers guy ... it just felt like he had taken a ton of

cement and poured it over TRUTH. Does anyone know if he is another one of those paid bush white house propaganda whores?

[whirlygigspin]

10. another fine example of Gannon/Coulter journalism

"I don't care if Iraq had nothing to do with 9-11, I want to hit somebody"

ok, buddy, have another drink.

Yup, the mean ole Liberals again spoiling all your fun.

You'd think by now, after killing over one hundred thousand Iraqi's they'd feel better? but nooooooooooooooooooooooo.

Well go ahead there, Mike, strap on a machine gun and go to Iraq.
maybe THEN you'll feel better.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

37. He's promoting unjust violence

"Dr. Spock, who taught Baby Boomers in the 1960s that violence is never the answer. Kids bullied on the playground are not allowed to hit back. Likewise, when bullied, America is not allowed to hit back either.

I believe this kind of thinking is contemptible."

So, If you're on the playground, and some bully (Osama) walks up and smacks you, it would be perfectly reasonable (according to this knucklehead) to walk over to some innocent kid by the swingset (Saddam), smack him take all his lunch money, and claim that he was the one who told the bully to go after you in the first place.

[cestanfill]

60. More Hypocrisy

Does anyone else get a little nauseous at the hypocrisy of saying that "when the bully hits, it's okay to hit back" when in fact, that's what terrorists feel like they're doing? Hitting America, the bully, that wants to inflict unwanted ideals on their society. Every Iraqi insurgent that kills one of our soldiers feels like they are "hitting the bully".

Obviously, I'm not condoning what they're doing, but it sure is funny how in the right-wing world, only Americans (preferably white ones) have the right to get angry or to lash out at injustice - real or perceived. And if we don't lash out in retribution, we're wimps, but if "they" don't they are good citizens anxious for democracy.

I guess I should thank god every day that as a white American I have some small value in the world (it'd be bigger if I weren't liberal), unlike the vast majority of the world population.

[Kurovski]

94. Hold on!

The analogy of Hussein as an "innocent kid" is way off the mark. nauseating, actually.

Even if I understand what you are trying to say, you've garbled your message. You've handed Mike his next column.

You can accurately use the analogy of real children in Iraq, as a soldier has reported. There is a link here at DU about this, I will find it and post it after I finish reading the rest of the posts here.

I'm surprised to see so many responses to this.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

104. only innocent as far as being in on 9/11....

Never said he was innocent of all those other things.

[Kurovski]

113. Yes, I do understand that.

But I just can't get past the thouight of Saddam as an innocent kid.

Nothing personal, but it rankles.

Again, actual innocent civilians are being killed--by us now-- because the WH skillfully associated 9/11 with Iraq.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x112261

[Mr_Spock]

155. Hmmm, this Spock would kick his sally ass in a hearbeat

...just for fun. Dare me!

[Kurovski]

11. No, he isn't paid by Bush Co. He's the layout editor.

But his intention to move up in the world is admirable. His columns were often provocative for its own sake. it looks like the new editor might have urged him to be a bit "nicer", but that is mere speculation on my part.

He's mentioned DU before, which might be a good career move.
Like hanging out at a busy nightclub, hoping to get picked up.

Five or six writing classes at the University of Chicago, and maybe Scaife might add him to his harem.

[applegrove]

9. Repression is out in the Middle East. What Liberals were begging for

Right Wing USA to stop. Funny how as soon as usa decides to stop using repression and repressors... peace a breaks out! History will tell the truth. A lack of democracy in the past 50 years... as encouraged by the West often... resulted in the Islamist Fundies blossoming.

We will have to wait and see if the Islamist fundies can be repressed. Can the USA get that genie it created back in the bottle?

[GoBlue]

12. Ceau·ses·cu Pronunciation (chou-shsk), Nicolae 1918-1989.

Romanian politician who was the absolute ruler after 1965. His regime was overthrown in December 1989, and he was executed for crimes against the state.

[opihimoimoi]

13. Is this guy a Commie??? They do hate FREE SPEECH...don't they?

[Kurovski]

14. And love ad hominem attacks.

No examination of why the statements are repellent to him. Wouldn't want to look at that one...

It is good the DU statements are there, many in the paper's area will find some agreement with them. They're not as outrageous as the writer believes, but he is indicating what you "should be " feeling about them anyway. And if you don't feel that way, well, you're obviously a "little Ceausescu."

[concord]

53. ... or belong in an insane asylum

I thought they were good picks myself. He just offered DU free advertizing :)

[Laurab]

80. I thought they were good picks, too

Granted, you can find some ridiculous things on DU, but none of those statements are. I wonder why he picked 3 posts that were actually true and not at all ridiculous.

[Virginian]

186. He could have posted something ridiculous and then quoted himself.

I think that is what some of the others do.

[Kurovski]

(response to post # 53) And vice-versa.

Which I think was a smart move on his part.

[anitar1]

15. He Must Kiss the Mirror Every Day

after he has plucked out the few whiskers he has. Sounds very juvenile. Actually, I think it is very pathetic.

[caledesi]

16. No Exit , BullGooseLoony & Stephanie got their 15 minutes!

:toast: :toast: :toast: :toast: :toast: :toast: :toast: :toast:

I want mine. :cry:

[Stephanie]

86. thank you!

I'm very proud!

Hey Michael Bowers! Do your homework before you talk to me:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=110&topic_id=80&mesg_id=80

[HEyHEY]

90. Or they would if anyone read this guy's column besides angry DUers

and his mother

[Kurovski]

95. I assure you.

Many people read his column.

[HEyHEY]

103. That's awfully dissapointing

[Kurovski]

116. Well, we do believe in free speech

and all that comes with it.

[HEyHEY]

117. No, I mean it's disspointing people are reading his crap in numbers

[Kurovski]

129. ".,,all that goes with it."

They have printed LTTE about his columns in the past. Many not supportive, which is not dissapointing--at least for us.

Fan letters usually read something like this:

" I enjoy Michael Bowers' column. It is very good. It is a breath of fresh air! Thank you! I was going to stop buying the Star, but now I will order two subscriptions!" ;-)

Support free speech!

[HEyHEY]

142. Dude, I'm not not suporting free speech

I'm just saying it sucks this guy has a following... so I'm exercising my right to free speech. ANd my right to an opinion.

[Kurovski]

145. Sorry, I know you do support free speech, HEyHey. I read you regularly.

Canada and Polar Bears, two non-disappointments! :-)

[HEyHEY]

173. Didn't mean to sound snarky

cheers

[Kurovski]

176. Me neither.

cheers, too.

[Judi Lynn]

158. Those polar bear photos are spell-binding. Wonderful. n/t

[Colorado Blue]

141. Off topic: THE BEARS ARE INCREDIBLE. Thanks! nt

[Guaranteed]

165. Whoohoo! How far is this guy syndicated?

Is he national?

[Kurovski]

168. No syndication. Paper reaches 54 suburbs of Chicago

and towns in the region.

[EFerrari]

17. "FDR and Reagan"

Hilarious.

Ronald Reagan was loathed around the world for the (then) unparalleled brutality and corruption of his administration. Drug running, torture, assassination, this list gets pretty long.

Tell Mike you appreciate his sense of humor:
[email protected].

[Kurovski]

18. Or a LTTE

[email protected].

I've read response letters from as faraway as Germany.

[CoffeeCat]

27. Columnists judge their success by the number of angry letters...

...written to them.

I think this guy is trying to get a reaction.

This column isn't even worthy of a response.

[emanymton]

34. Agree. Column Was Simple, Shallow and Silly. Respond - He Wins

[KurtNYC]

44. Like he threw facts and fantasy into a blender

then poured it out on to the page. A confused mess.

[Kurovski]

118. Instead, write a reasoned, factual response.

Put the anger aside. It can drive a response, but don't let it cloud reason and civility.

I don't agree with those that believe such people should just be ignored.

Like when people say ignore Coulter, of whom Michael Bowers is very fond. I'd say don't feed into the angry response they crave and are entertained by, but one should always answer charges ,accusations and assumptions.

It's called standing up to bullies. America was designed by its founders so that discussion and argument could take the place of violence and force, WHEREVER POSSIBLE.

[TomClash]

19. He must be angling for that Big Gig at the WSJ

Notice he doesn't say why those comments are wrong, particularly Stephanie's insight. How telling is that?

Hey, Mikey, in case you haven't noticed, it's a message board. If you don't like it, have a chair and read a little Mussolini while listening to a CD of Ashcroft's "Let the Eagle Soar." I understand that for conservatives, these and similar pastimes are a great substitute for sex.

[RoBear]

65. Maybe he's angling for Gannon's job!

n/t

[TomClash]

99. He might not have the pecs for that job

[Stephanie]

89. He does not answer any of us

Just calls us names and has done with it! Typical Freeper.

[Dogmudgeon]

20. The Bug in Michael Bowers' Brain

(I enjoyed this so much, I just might submit this to The Star. --p!)

In his recent screed against the well-flogged horse of Liberalism (The Newsroom Iconoclast: What I’ve learned in two years of writing a column, http://www.starnewspapers.com/star/spedit/col/13-co2.htm), one can quickly see that Michael Bowers’ conservatism is “informed” by his experiences either on the schoolyard, or the John Birch Society.

The boss said sure ... and my first column appeared on March 2, 2003. I said today’s pacifists are still brainwashed by the lessons of Dr. Spock, who taught Baby Boomers in the 1960s that violence is never the answer. Kids bullied on the playground are not allowed to hit back. Likewise, when bullied, America is not allowed to hit back either.

Now, that’s a blast from the past. I haven’t seen any bashing of Benjamin Spock since the late 1970s, although I had never seen Bowers’ take on it. Most of the John Birch Spockophobes had the red-ass over Spock’s remarks against either spanking or the H-Bomb, or both.

Bowers then seems to be telling us that violence IS the answer, and that the bullied of the earth do well to hit back. I’m sure this is exactly what Osama Bin Laden was thinking when he so bravely sent his stooges to undertake the attacks of 9-11-01. Though Bin Laden is the rich playboy son of Saudi semi-royalty, he deeply identified with the bullied masses of the Islamic world, suffering their every indignity. He finally decided that the appropriate response was to inflict a sucker-punch on nearly 3000 Americans guilty of nothing more than working or traveling in the wrong place that late-summer morning. Not even the strike on the Pentagon took the lives of the Masters of War that he had personally judged and found guilty -- the section of the Pentagon that took the blow was tasked with administrative support.

George Bush also believes in taking an eye for an eye. Realizing that several idiot Saudi and Yemeni terrorists and their idle-rich Fearless Leader had launched a dastardly blow from Afghanistan, George immediately called for a feasibility study on engaging the arch-fiend Saddam Hussein in a war of retribution against Iraq. The promised hunt and subsequent smackdown of OBL was put on hold, and the Stark Fist of American Justice delivered hammer-blow after hammer-blow to the viper pit that was Iraq, one of the few places in Islam-land that had declared OBL a criminal long before 9-11.

Of course, Bowers was careful not to mistake Afghanistan for Iraq and Osama for Saddam, an easy mistake to make because all those moo-lahs (GWB’s word) look the same anyway. Instead, his anger was stoked by the “frenzied, irrational opposition to a possible war in Iraq” by a sinister force he calls the Angry Left. After all, Saddam may not have participated in the atrocity of 9-11, but he was certainly the author of wave after wave of potential future world-wide nucular terror. Not for nothing are the young men of Conservative America known as Masters of Irony.

Bowers then makes a bid to acknowledge that there are some liberals who actually are fit to be called “decent”, which he quickly backs away from. Liberals, like the much-reviled Robert Fisk, are “little Ceauceascus.” Well, at least he didn’t call us “little Hitlers,” a practice widely and well-enjoyed among Conservatives of rapier wit, but forbidden to liberals.

Perhaps if Bowers had read some of the posts at Democratic Underground with a view toward getting some insight into how we “angry Liberals” think, he might have had more to write -- and in doing so, exceed his 1000-word limit. We did not oppose Mr. Bush’s Iraqi Adventure out of any love for repression in the Mid-East or fondness for the loathsome Saddam Hussein, but the practical considerations that war would be horrendously expensive, and, by the way, kill a lot of people who didn’t deserve it. Liberals by the long ton recognized that George Bush had an historic opportunity to organize the world community against Saddam and force his ouster. Instead of wishing him to fail, we made the case for international cooperation to force Saddam out without a major war, and restore Iraqi freedom. Which he promptly ignored.

Instead, we suffered through months of sophomoric anti-French “jokes”, followed by a shamefully poorly-planned assault on Iraq that has so far cost a quarter of a trillion dollars, the lives 1360 American soldiers and an undetermined-thousands of Iraqi non-combatants. And while our troops finally did get Saddam last year, Osama remains at large, deftly switching from Verizon to Cingular cell phone service and back again, downloading Britney’s oeuvre on his ThinkPad and beta-testing the latest version of Panty Sweetheart Action Hentai, all the while schlepping his dialysis rig across the badlands of Central Asia.

Bowers might also have seen that a large number of liberals DO, indeed, believe that OBL ought to be hunted down like a rabid swine and dispatched to meet the Allah in whom he doesn’t believe, recycling the nitrogen in his body through putrefaction, much the same way he sent his victims to oblivion via atomization. That OBL might even briefly experience the same horror and agony that he inflicted so easily would put him in the same circle of Hell as, say, Nicolae Ceausescu.

Another mark of the Right Irony is that the DU members slandered by Bowers for their Conservatively Incorrect opinions are among the more temperate members, and have each made cogent arguments supporting their opinions. They have also not sent any prisoners to out-of-the-way locations for torture, as did both Mssrs. Ceaucescu and Bush (you call it “Red Communism”, I call it “Extraordinary Rendition”).

Toward then end of his column, right before the traditional Praise And Glorification Of Our Beloved Commander-In-Chief, Bowers admits to feeling dirty -- and then quotes from Liberal icon Frank Zappa. Zappa was well-known to hold the opinion that stupidity was destroying the world, and Bowers is among those in the know. Still, it would be interesting to watch his reaction to discovering Zappa’s other well-known opinion, that Conservatives and Republicans owned the Stupidity franchise, and were doing a booming business. Unless, of course, Bowers is chastising us with Irony -- for the crime of dissent against the war. Is this why “Uncle Frank” wrote a song called Give Me Your Dirty Love?

The impression may still remain in Michael Bowers’ mind that Liberals don’t fight back against evil. Hopefully, I’ve managed to dispel that notion, but Conservatives are well-renowned to hold fast to their fantasies.

--p!

[XNASA]

62. You really should send that to the Star. It's great.

I had a string of about 5 or 6 LTTE's published in the Star about every other week a couple of summers ago. Then they stopped printing them. Guess I was being too honest.

But I love your insight. Go for it.

[jeanarrett]

77. I agree... it's great! Send it in, but isn't the troop toll now over

1500, not 1360?

[Guaranteed]

167. AMAZING. Great job!!! nt

[RagingInMiami]

21. I sent him the following e-mail

You would think that after writing a column for two years, you could manage it without having to fill it with random quotes and movie analogies that fail to drive your point across.
But then again, I wouldn't be surprised if you're another one of those representatives of the mainstream media that are actually on the Bush payroll. How many has it been now, four or five? I've lost count.
So as a member of the Democratic Underground, whom you refer to as "the enemy", I will remind you that not only more than 1,500 American troops have been killed in Iraq, but more than 160,000 Iraqi civilians as well.
That is one hell of a price to pay for the removal of a dictator who we both know was not responsible for 9/11 (where more than 3,000 American civilians were killed).
It's obvious that the only Ceausescu in a state of denial is you. So do us all a favor and take that shower cause you do stink.
By the way, thanks for the plug.

RagingInMiami
(One of more than 66,000 registered members of www.democraticunderground.com)

[paineinthearse]

29. The Star had a little audit scandal last March

In a prior post I wrote that this neighborhood "newspaper" reminded me of the kind used in fish markets. So I researched its circulation. Before I could find the numbers, I found this article from last March:

http://www.starnewspapers.com/star/spbiz/all/131bz2.htm

Audit bureau censures The Star

Statement addresses circulation practices that were ended last year

Sunday, March 13, 2005

By Mike Nolan,
Special to The Star

Audit Bureau of Circulation has censured Star Newspapers and the Daily Southtown for circulation-inflating practices the papers disclosed last fall. The censure means that, for the next two years, the papers' records will be audited every six months rather than annually, and for the next year the papers will be dropped from ABC's twice-yearly report of publishers' unaudited circulation figures. The Star and Southtown also will be required to submit a plan of corrective action to the ABC board of directors. The board voted March 4 to approve the censure, an ABC spokesman said last week.

ABC, based in Schaumburg, is a nonprofit association that audits newspapers to verify their circulation figures. Hollinger International Inc. in October reported that an internal investigation had uncovered inflationary practices at The Star and Southtown. Both newspapers are published by Tinley Park-based Midwest Suburban Publishing, a Hollinger International subsidiary. John Cruickshank, chief operating officer for Hollinger International, said the company reported the practices to ABC as soon as it uncovered them in the middle of last year. Hollinger also conducted an internal investigation that resulted in October's public disclosure.

The practices were reported and stopped before inflated numbers ever appeared on an ABC audit report. "There's nothing in the (ABC) news release and nothing in the censure that hasn't been available for many, many months,'' Cruickshank said. "We have no idea why the censure was so long delayed." Similar practices were used at the Chicago Sun-Times, which also is owned by Hollinger International and was censured by the ABC in July.

"This was a minor issue at The Star and Southtown, and we put an end to it last spring as soon as it was discovered,'' Cruickshank said. Mark Hornung, president and publisher at MSP at the time, was placed on administrative leave June 28 and resigned three days later. Hornung had served as vice president of circulation at the Sun-Times from 1996 until joining MSP in January 2002. His successor at the Sun-Times, Stephen Hastings, resigned June 28. Along with the Sun-Times, ABC in July censured Tribune Co. for overstating circulation figures at two of its newspapers, Newsday and Hoy.

[hyphenate]

88. It figures

"Both newspapers are published by Tinley Park-based Midwest Suburban Publishing, a Hollinger International subsidiary."

Hollinger rears its ugly head ONE MORE TIME!!! The newspaper whose board members include both Henry Kissinger and Richard Perle, among whose other columnists is the liberal despising asshole, Mark Steyn. Can't say I'm very surprised, but are there ANY newspapers in Chicago NOT controlled by the reich wing?

[Kurovski]

97. Both the Southtown and Star

are very decent regional newspapers.

They're owned by shady characters, but excellent, ethical people work at both of them. And remember, the area is predominantly Dem.

Who knows what direction they are headed at this point, but well-reasoned conservative Dem and liberal and libertarian views are well represented, Mike is an anomaly.

I would advise anyone writing a response letter to the Star to keep it short, concise, and above all, civil. It is not an outlet for letting off steam.

DU is!

[no_hypocrisy]

22. " Bush . . . [s]oon will be remembered along with FDR and Reagan."

No, * will be remembered along with historical figures of the like of Nero, Herrod, Hitler, Idi Amin, Saddam Hussein (ironic, isn't it?), Pol Pot, Stalin, and Woodrow Wilson when he was disabled by his stroke, to a name a few off the top of my head.

It's not greatness. It's stupidity if you have to break everything in order to rebuild it to make it better, and it's STILL not better when you're done. And the fact you had to break it in the first place.

[iconoclastic cat]

23. This isn't a Chicago paper. This is a Chicago Heights paper--a suburb.

An insignificant one at that.

[Kurovski]

24. It's a Chicago AREA paper.

It covers 54 suburbs, not just Chi Heights.

The southland is a large region, But no, it is not a national newspaper.

[renoray]

127. Suntimes Cookies

When I went to the site it tried to feed me cookies from the Suntimes. Looking at the "about us" page, it looks like they are owned by the suntimes. I might suggest people call them or send them a fax telling them you want the column dumped or you'll switch to the Herald or the Tribune.

[Kurovski]

130. I'd only advise that if you are a subscriber.

And I don't advise it . Support free speech by RESPONDING as an informed adult American. Or Canadian!

Smearing, silencing people and attempting to ruin their careers is a an ugly technique historically used for decades by Right-Wingers throughout the world.

Mr B has not reached any level of outrageousness worthy of public censure.

he's just full of it. It's so easy to respond with facts.

[Kurovski]

161. Oops! public censure is fitting, I meant to say "his destruction."

is what is unnecessary. But that Armstrong Williams! Did you hear he's getting a radio show?

Williams shouldn't even be allowed near two tin cans connected by a string.

[EST]

182. Hear, hear!

Do

[Warren Stupidity]

25. Not one of the statements he quoted is false or looney.

The idiot ought to look in the mirror if he is searching for delusional people.

[Hissyspit]

48. Really! When I read that he was going to quote from the "insane asylum"...

I was expecting some of the goofy stuff that ends up here from time to time. And then when he goes and quotes perfectly reasonable stuff - beliefs possibly held now by a majority of Americans - made by some of our better posters, well, it's a joke. Perfectly good trees are being wasted on him, that's for sure. Almost not worth the time making note of him.

[Deja Q]

26. He believes the war was originally about altruistic liberation?! Worse,

The only nitwit around is Michael and his ilk. Not us. He needs to go look at all of *'s ramblings and tantrums which were his excuses to bring us to war. I only heard "imminent threat", "He's got WMDs", "We cannot wait!!!!"

And if * had no personal reason for the war, why keep Saddam's pistol - surely a relic that should be in a museum?

For financial reasons alone, the US is unable to bestow such liberation. Indeed, why give such freedom and advancement to a bunch of people in a strange land while he has to cut programs here at home to help our own citizens, who he IS responsible for?! Give me a break, Michael... you're a dunderhead.

Michael Bowers is as much of a nut as Betty Bowers. Pity is, of those two only Michael is real. A real nutcase it seems.

Not a total nut. He's right about Frank Zappa. I wonder if he understands the concept of "irony". Which reminds me of another quote, "for a lie to work, it must be shrouded in truth."

But Bush will be rememebered like FDR and Reagan, only if his cronies succeed in using lies to cover up the reels of video and film footage showing * and his pals to be utter liars. Wait a minute, Reagan? How the fuck was he responsible for anything altruistic? I know he helped give weapons to Saddam, but that was so we could get rid of them evil commies, yes? :crazy:

And the only ugly sentiments are from those who don't have enougb brain cells to retain what they were told that got us into this mess.

[paineinthearse]

28. "Michael Bowers is a layout editor for the Star. "

I am not familiar with the Star, in fact never heard of it before. Seems But it's not customary to have a "layout editor" writing editorials, is it? Who's next, the copy boy? The messenger? The UPS guy?

It seems to be little more than a neighborhood advertising and entertainment outlet. You know, the kind of paper used in a fish market.

Sorry Mike. Collect a Pullitzer or two and I'll consider giving you and the Star a degree of respect.

Give mike a morning greeting - send e-mail to [email protected].

[JHB]

69. I caught that too...

In other words, he's the guy who makes sure everything fits in the non-ad spaces of the paper, makes sure that any articles with breaks tell the reader the right page to go to, etc. Not a job that involves actual news collection and analysis, and it's not as if he points to some other source of expertise.

So after two years, all Mikey can do is take poorly-aimed (but still cheap) potshots at web posters? feh!

[Kurovski]

100. The Star is not "The Daily Penny"

It consistently wins national awards as a regional newspaper.

Attemting to diminish the outlet overlooks the rise of the kind of "non-reality based" propagandic message found in the message.

Actually, if that sort of column was actually found in a "Penny Saver" type paper, It would be very, very disturbing indeed.

[JHB]

179. I wasn't diminishing The Star...

...I was pointing out his role there, which is not one of news gathering and analysis, and wondering about how he managed to land a regular opinion column there.

[Kurovski]

189. I meant to respond to paineinthearse

#28, so I apologise.

From #28:
"It seems to be little more than a neighborhood advertising and entertainment outlet. You know, the kind of paper used in a fish market"

By the way, great name, paineinthearse.

[DUBYASCREWEDUS]

30. LET'S SEE...

We have a dim-wit for a President - a man so stupid that even when he was wired during three (3) debates he still couldn't win them; we have the most corrupt and evil administration ever - bar none - since our nation was founded -- we have an administration where failure gets you the top job (see Condi for reference); and yet this yellow journalist who has been "writing" for two (2) years has the nerve to poke fun at this site and those of us who use it? PUH-LEASE! I have a favorite bumper sticker: "I THINK, THEREFORE I'M A DEMOCRAT"!

[Rose Siding]

31. "Make stupidity work for you. Bush is certainly doing so."?

Hee hee.

[concord]

51. I caught that also LOL!!

Great Freudian :)

[emanymton]

32. Elections Are Good- Saddam's Iraq Had'em...Stalin Too

Staged history always make me feel sooo good. Vote. I'll count them and tell you how great my victory is.



Bush Lied, People Died, Media Cheered.

[neweurope]

33. Either in love with Bush or payed by him. Outrageous to call R. Fisk of

all people a "Ceausescu". Fisk could go to court over that one. Either that idiot is too uneducated to understand who and how Ceausescu was - or he means pure propaganda; which I think is the case. And anybody making outright propaganda can NOT be called an editor. Little Chicago guy Goebbeling... :puke:

I wonder whether he only lurks here or actually posts.

----------------

Remember Fallujah

Bush to The Hague!

[oecher3]

35. this guy is not worth the attention....

he just wanted his 15 minute fame and got it with all our response. Will he therefore be read more, maybe. Everybody can write an angry editorial including a bunch bad references to dead people and wait for the apologethic responses to increase attention. He fits right into the picture of modern journalists, just hang your flag into the wind and twist the words ignoring the obvious truth. Worth maybe the paper it is writen on and comes in handy if you ran out of tp.

ps: lesson two, use spell-check when you publish or you have to edit your note

[Harlequin]

36. This dude is all Pomp and Circumstance, except...

it's all "Pomp" -- no "Circumstance."

[Harlequin]

39. He's not a columnist: He's a neo-con TYPIST

If "journalists" hadn't been so open to RepubliCAN'T talking points, a knob like this guy wouldn't be tolerated in the newsroom -- subtle condesention doesn't really make for delicious reading in a column. I can tell from the first graph that this dude has learned NOTHING in the "exact" two years of having written a column, other than, say, perhaps, how he likes to drink his coffee and what time he gets up to go to the bathroom, and swaps jokes at the water- cooler at the office.

He's not a columnist. He's a TYPIST for the neo-cons. At least the venerable tropical bird, the Parrot, has some kind of a sense of timing for its reactions. This dude makes the case for bloggers (hard to believe) unintentionally.

he's everything that's wrong with everything. CRAP!

[Ganja Ninja]

40. I googled him - nothing!

If he was any kind of major columnist he would have shown up in the first two pages. He might as well be Jeff Gannon or Jim Gurket.

[Joey Liberal]

147. Bowers is probably another Gannon

Bowers is probably a male hooker that can type well. Where do the republiNazis find these people?

[Kurovski]

156. I really, really , really doubt that. A whole big bunch.

But, um, welcome to DU.

[atommom]

38. Not worth our time and energy. How do these people get their

own columns, anyway? What a waste of space.

He doesn't seem to pick up on his own irony, either. Bush is "profiting from stupidity," but it isn't ours. :eyes:

[Jack Rabbit]

41. If it makes Mr. Bowers feel any better

If it makes Mr. Bowers feel any better, I don't entirely agree with BullGooseLoony when he says, "If anyone tells you that our country is safer because of the war, they're lying."

I think anybody who says that the invasion of Iraq made Americans safer is either a liar or a fool. I'm not familiar with Mr. Bowers' work and won't make a judgment as to which he might be.

Also, I don't quite agree with No Exit, but only because I believe that the characterization "fascism" needs further elabortation. There is a difference between the classical fascism of Mussolini's Italy and Hitler's Genrmany and neoconservative version. In the classical version, the state was supreme and organized industry for its benefit and wars were fought to glorify the state; in the modern version, the private corporation is supreme and controls the state and wars are fought to force open markets. The government controled the press in classical fascism; in the modern version, the same people who foot the bill for the political careers of favored office seekers own the media. There is no government censorship of the press, but the result is the same: the public is only given as much information as those in power want the public to have and only that opinion that those in power want heard is heard.

[Stephanie]

93. But do you agree with me, Jack?

I want your take on my quote!

:hi:

[Jack Rabbit]

96. Broadly speaking, yes, I agree

'Liberating Iraq' is just as big a lie as 'finding the WMD' was. Bush Co. is in Iraq to establish a foothold in order to dominate the entire region and its resources. They have no intention of allowing genuine democracies.


From DU's home page about a year ago:
Please click here.

[Stephanie]

98. This is where I'm coming from >

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=110&topic_id=80&mesg_id=85&page=

http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2003/10/ma_273_01.html

The Thirty-Year Itch
Three decades ago, in the throes of the energy crisis, Washington's hawks conceived of a strategy for US control of the Persian Gulf's oil. Now, with the same strategists firmly in control of the White House, the Bush administration is playing out their script for global dominance.

By Robert Dreyfuss
March/April 2003 Issue
P L U S :
Oil and Arms: An In-Depth Look

If you were to spin the globe and look for real estate critical to building an American empire, your first stop would have to be the Persian Gulf. The desert sands of this region hold two of every three barrels of oil in the world -- Iraq's reserves alone are equal, by some estimates, to those of Russia, the United States, China, and Mexico combined. For the past 30 years, the Gulf has been in the crosshairs of an influential group of Washington foreign-policy strategists, who believe that in order to ensure its global dominance, the United States must seize control of the region and its oil. Born during the energy crisis of the 1970s and refined since then by a generation of policymakers, this approach is finding its boldest expression yet in the Bush administration -- which, with its plan to invade Iraq and install a regime beholden to Washington, has moved closer than any of its predecessors to transforming the Gulf into an American protectorate.

In the geopolitical vision driving current U.S. policy toward Iraq, the key to national security is global hegemony -- dominance over any and all potential rivals. To that end, the United States must not only be able to project its military forces anywhere, at any time. It must also control key resources, chief among them oil -- and especially Gulf oil. To the hawks who now set the tone at the White House and the Pentagon, the region is crucial not simply for its share of the U.S. oil supply (other sources have become more important over the years), but because it would allow the United States to maintain a lock on the world's energy lifeline and potentially deny access to its global competitors. The administration "believes you have to control resources in order to have access to them," says Chas Freeman, who served as U.S. ambassador to Saudi Arabia under the first President Bush. "They are taken with the idea that the end of the Cold War left the United States able to impose its will globally -- and that those who have the ability to shape events with power have the duty to do so. It's ideology."

Iraq, in this view, is a strategic prize of unparalleled importance. Unlike the oil beneath Alaska's frozen tundra, locked away in the steppes of central Asia, or buried under stormy seas, Iraq's crude is readily accessible and, at less than $1.50 a barrel, some of the cheapest in the world to produce. Already, over the past several months, Western companies have been meeting with Iraqi exiles to try to stake a claim to that bonanza.

But while the companies hope to cash in on an American-controlled Iraq, the push to remove Saddam Hussein hasn't been driven by oil executives, many of whom are worried about the consequences of war. Nor are Vice President Cheney and President Bush, both former oilmen, looking at the Gulf simply for the profits that can be earned there. The administration is thinking bigger, much bigger, than that.

"Controlling Iraq is about oil as power, rather than oil as fuel," says Michael Klare, professor of peace and world security studies at Hampshire College and author of Resource Wars. "Control over the Persian Gulf translates into control over Europe, Japan, and China. It's having our hand on the spigot." <more>

[Jack Rabbit]

106. Very interesting

EDIT to add clasue about debunked meetings between hijackers and Iraqi intelligence

The Mother Jones article goes into depth concerning the history of what it took to set up the invasion, although I doubt steps 1 through 3 were made with steps 4 and 5 in mind. That could only have been possible after September 11. The neocons should have sent Osama a dozen roses.

My stress lay in the prevarications after September 11 that led to the Iraq War. The idea that Bush and his aides were deceived by bad intelligence is simply ludicrous. They lied willfully and deliberately. People who were paying attention before the invasion knew that there were valid reasons to challenge the administration's public assessment of the threat posed by Saddam, knew that reports of meetings between September 11 hijackers and Iraqi intelligence officers had been debunked and knew that intelligence was being manipulated.

Here is another article that I wrote, this one appearing just before the invasion. I don't see anything in it that turned out to be wrong. When I marched against the war in Iraq along with millions of others in February 2003, I did so as in informed citizen, not a knee-jerk pacifist.

[Stephanie]

110. You predicted it >

This war is not about UN resolutions or weapons of mass destruction. It is colonial piracy. This war will not make Americans safer from any external threat. It will do little to protect people in the Middle East from any threat. It will not bring democracy to Iraq. It will not benefit the Iraqi people. The only people who will benefit will be Mr. Bush's cronies.

Is this "editorial" worth refuting? I hesitate to engage the guy since he is so deeply stupid. I wouldn't know where to start!

[Jack Rabbit]

112. Worth refuting? Not really

By calling those with whom he disagrees "little Ceausescus" he only makes himself into a little Ann Coulter, except that he develops a theme better than she does. However, like Ms. Coulter's work, there's more invective than argument here.

[brainshrub]

43. All the quotes he used were spot-on.

No Exit says: "'Freedom is on the march' in the Middle East, and fascism is on the sneak in the U.S. of A."

The Bush Administration is made up of pro-business social conservatives who justify torture and make people disappear.

How is this not fascist?

BullGooseLoony says: "If anyone tells you that our country is safer because of the war, they're lying."

The invasion of Iraq has created, motivated and trained the next generation of terrorists.

How are we safer today than on 9/10?

Stephanie says: "'Liberating Iraq' is just as big a lie as 'finding the WMD' was. Bush Co. is in Iraq to establish a foothold in order to dominate the entire region and its resources. They have no intention of allowing genuine democracies."

This is a spot-on observation by Stephanie. Heck, when the war started the Neocons were writing how the oil money would pay for the reconstruction! It's no coincidence that well-connected US companies didn't even need to bid for the contracts.

To a social conservative, the very word "democracy" is considered dirty. The recent elections in Iraq were a failed attempt to legalize the current theft.

...

One final thought:

Republicans wouldn't need to use use FDR's reflected glow to illuminate Reagan, if Ronald were half the President they claim him to be.

[Kindigger]

151. FDR & Reagan

The only thing that occurred to me that these two had/have in common, is that they're both dead.

:eyes:

[bloom]

45. It would be interesting to know if he considers himself a Christian

since he blasted Jesus' "turn the other cheek", "love your enemies" philosophy.



Sounds to me like he believes the VNRs that the TV news stations are broadcasting.

He might like to read this:

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/13/politics/13covert.html?th

Under Bush, a New Age of Prepackaged TV News
By DAVID BARSTOW and ROBIN STEIN

Published: March 13, 2005

It is the kind of TV news coverage every president covets.

"Thank you, Bush. Thank you, U.S.A.," a jubilant Iraqi-American told a camera crew in Kansas City for a segment about reaction to the fall of Baghdad. A second report told of "another success" in the Bush administration's "drive to strengthen aviation security"; the reporter called it "one of the most remarkable campaigns in aviation history." A third segment, broadcast in January, described the administration's determination to open markets for American farmers. <more>

[Terran]

46. Geez, are those the "worst" statements he could dig up at DU?

They all sound pretty reasonable to me. He must not have looked very hard, I'm sure he could have some statements that really woulda made his head explode. As it is, he's just trying to make reasonable statements in opposition to the Bush regime sound like insanity, which doesn't sit well with a mainstream newspaper (I would hope!).

[meganmonkey]

47. He picked pretty good quotes from DU, actually

It's funny, if he was trying to make us look bad, he could have picked much worse quotes!

Good for us, he's a loser and we got some good press. That's how I see it.

[Catherine Vincent]

49. I nominate this whiner for the Top Ten Conservative Idiots award.

You can tell that's what he wants. He's pulling a Gannon.

[sellitman]

55. A Top Ten Idiot if I ever saw one!!!!

Email this slime and tell him what you think:

[email protected]

[Kurovski]

120. Top-ten: It would make his day.

And bring him a higher profile.

I de-nominate him for top-ten.

I nominate Tom Delay for all ten.

I'd take a deep breath before writing him. His next column will carry the angry ad-hominem attacks and most likely ignore reasoned responses.

[grace0418]

50. "Such ugly sentiments are depressing. They make me need a shower. "

This dude needs more than a shower, he needs the kool-aid pumped from his stomach

[Plaid Adder]

52. Wow. I've been doing this all wrong!

Here I've been trying to reduce the amount of stupidity in the world when I should have been trying to AUGMENT it! *slaps forehead*

Wow. You know, if he was looking for crazy shit at DU, there's shit he could have found that's a *lot* crazier. Obviously this guy doesn't research too hard before he sits down to the keyboard.

Sigh,

The Plaid Adder

[Dogmudgeon]

56. Standards have been lowered

I'm old enough to remember the time when a ranting loon would actually trot on down to their local library and crack open a copy of The Protocols of the Elders of Zion, a pad of paper at their side for note-taking, and a pack of Rolaids or Tums ready to handle the surge of stomach acid.

Not any more. Standards have slid. Alas! The Republic stands in danger of collapse from the weakening of our standards.

And sex. Yes, and plenty of sex.

--p!

[Kurovski]

123. Hey there, Plaid!

Thinkin' about a LTTE?

You're the one, baby!

[email protected]

[Guaranteed]

169. I don't think he got past my screenname.

:)

[YankeyMCC]

54. I guess I'm insane

Because all those quoted DU statements sound reasonable to me.

[whirlygigspin]

61. I bet Mike Bowers is related to Betty Bowers

http://www.bettybowers.com/

http://www.bettybowers.com/christianadvice.html

[hyphenate]

91. Actually

"Betty Bowers" is a liberal site which uses sarcasm, parody and satire to get its point across. I don't think Mike Bowers even knows what "satire" "parody" "metaphor" or "allusion" mean. :)

[ClintonTyree]

57. Wow, this dip shit certainly drank his share of the Kool-Aid........

bush is "making stupidity work for him." bush's stupidity knows NO bounds, and has gotten the U.S. into a very dangerous situation, both here and abroad.

And HOW DARE he quote Frank Zappa to support this totally flawed assertion! Frank is quite possibly rolling in his grave at this very moment in reaction to the bush cabal's destruction of our country. The economy, the environment, our safety as regards to terrorism and world opinion are ALL down the shitter because of bush's STUPID policies.

I hope this ass clown likes the taste of crow, because he's going to be eating an enormous portion when the insanity of bush's policies become fully realized.

What a freaking bushbot! :crazy:

[kbm8170]

58. Gee...a layout editor for a partisan suburban newspaper chain

who sounds about as thoughtful as the rock he crawled out from under. . .seems to me that this guy does nothing but memorize Party cliches and spews forth the "everything that has ever been wrong is the liberal's fault' mantra like a true Party loyalist.

It never fails to amaze me that publishers don't require columnists to actually exhibit some research skills or provide meaningful and thoughtful information to back up their opinions. His "know-your- enemy" cultural war strategy should be enough for any of his own readers to question HIS patriotism in a time of real "war."

At least it was a nice long column. Too bad he had nothing to say except the same Party cliches that have been overused for the last 20 years.

[kbm8170]

59. Someone needs to write the publisher

and ask if they employ a columnist who does nothing but rant about conservatives.

[Kurovski]

125. It is definitely not a partisan newspaper.

The editorial page is balanced with a variety of views, the region is heavily Democratic.

In fact, chances are good that if you send a well-written, factual article wherein you are not merely grinding an axe, you can actually be printed in the same space Mike's jolly jottings appear!

I've read a number of guest columns from California.
Keep in mind that the new editorial page editor took over about two months ago.

The new editor is a Democrat, moderate would be my guess. he's written many articles pointing out the huge flaws in the Leave No Child Behind Act.

[kbm8170]

184. This is my point exactly. . .

I won't argue about sending in a "well-written" article, even if Mike doesn't have to write well to produce his rantings...but why would I be held to a "factual" standard that is obviously higher than this partisan, cliche-ridden trash?

[Kurovski]

190. You make one of the best points.

Asking why you would be expected to is a great question. Challenge that double-standard, because it is true that there is no other columnist at the Star who counters Bowers in the rhetoric he sometimes puts forth.

If the owner of the paper, and segments of the public demanded to hear Bowers, that is probably why he's in place. it's unfair, but it's possible that the owners would not allow an opposite match in style. You can ask. It's possible they thought Bowers was indeed the antithesis of the liberal viewpoint already presented.

Real tugs-of-war go on with ownership and op-ed departments.

It is not as though every column of Bowers' is this "flamebait."

His rhetoric had cooled somewhat from his beginnings, which is why I was surprised to see a flaming re-emergence of irrationality.

I understand your anger and frustration, I feel it too. The standard for me is: it's fitting in some places, and inappropriate in others to go trash-mouth.

I hope you will ask the Star the questions you've asked, I can't answer it.

It's a question that many news outlets should be answering.

[Buddyblazon]

63. Funny....

the quotes he use's from DUer's seem to be pretty accurate...and the majority of people I meet would agree with our statements.

It almost makes me wonder...maybe he's a liberal...and know's that conservatives have devalued liberals views so much...that only the words of another conservative are valid. Now that he's established himself as a "conservative"...he can put those ideas out there and other righties will at least be thinking about these perspectives.

Or he could just be an ignorant press whore that is stupidly giving press to DU and putting our ACCURATE views out there. Bravo...dipshit.

[progressive_realist]

138. I agree; I think he is really a liberal

Perhaps I am reading too much into it, but it does seem that this is a satirical piece. My first thought was how similar the writing style is to the phony columnist Ed Anger at the supermarket tabloid Weekly World News.

http://www.weeklyworldnews.com/features/columnists/61473

Bowers uses favorable quotes from DU, which you wouldn't expect from an actual right-winger. And his statement that * is making stupidity work for him is certainly a lefty sentiment.

If I had to guess from this single column, I would say that Bowers is a liberal who thinks himself very clever. He drops references to being a fifth columnist all throughout the piece: "I was under the illusion that to counter those who disagree with me, I had to smash them. Now I know different...That's deftness...But, as Sun Tzu, the famous ancient Chinese general, wrote, a fundamental rule of war is know your enemy...The world isn't getting any smarter. Make stupidity work for you."

[gtar100]

64. At least we can learn this...

That the clash we have in our society is based on very different sets of values. We won't reach them with our ideas if we simply speak what justifies our beliefs to ourselves. The cons believe that fighting and domination to achieve one's goals is just fine. Achievement is most important, no matter the consequences.

• Where we see facism, they see a strong American economy.
  
• Where we see America being a bully and a thug, they see a proud and strong America.
  
• When we speak of senseless death in Iraq, they speak about defending America's vital interests.
  
• Where we see bush as an incompetent fool, they see a simple man of the people.
  

The sad part is, I can see how a liberal, democratic system of governing can take care of their concerns for America's security and vital interests, but I fail to see how a right-wing, neo-con system could even come close to addressing our concerns. That's why they talk about killing us off and we talk about making the system work for everyone.

Personally, I'd be just as happy if they'd all just go away (rapture anyone?) and leave us to take care of the earth they so despise. But that ain't gonna happen and unfortunately we're left to wait until they can no longer deny the mess they've made of things. So sad we all must suffer for their mistakes...but we're all in this together.

Congrats to DU for the well-deserved recognition!

[doublethink]

66. Google This ....

1983 Ceauseascu Reagan ..... go ahead google it :wow:


"In 1983, vice-president Bush expressed his admiration for Ceausescu’s political and economic progress and “respect for human rights.” Two years later Reagan’s ambassador resigned because of Washington’s objections to his concern for human rights. Shortly after, secretary of state Schultz praised Romania as among the “good Communists,” rewarding Ceausescu with a visit and economic favors. So matters continued until the tyrant was overthrown—by Romanians, as in the case of other killers and torturers in the Reagan-Bush entourage.

As soon as its favorite “good Communist” was eliminated, Washington announced that a “terrible burden” had been lifted from Romania, while at the same time lifting its ban on loans to Saddam Hussein in order to achieve the “goal of increasing US exports and put us in a better position to deal with Iraq regarding its human rights record,” the state department explained with a straight face. 9

As always, the US leadership can confidently take credit for the overthrow of the tyrants it supported until the very end. Saddam Hussein has joined “the pantheon of failed brutal dictators” whom the US has deposed, Donald rumsfeld proudly announced, including Ceausescu in the pantheon. On the same day as rumsfeld’s declaration, Paul Wolfowitz explained that his love of democracy was honed “during his formative years in the Reagan administration, when he was the state department’s chief Asian hand,” praising the monstrous Suharto and supporting the brutal and corrupt Marcos, whose fall, he now claims, shows that democracy “needs the prodding of the US”10—which backed Marcos until he could no longer be sustained in the face of the popular opposition joined even by the business classes and the army. The other examples are equally convincing."

page 113 Noam Chamsky Hegemony Or Survival

[Botany]

67. After reading this crap .....

..... go to the bottom of this article and email the editor of his paper and
tell him what you think ......
1. America = I disagree w/ what you say but I will defend to the death your
right to say it.

2. Comparing DU to Ceausescu the Romaine dictator who murder thousands
and when he and his wife were put to death by "the people" they had to draw
straws because so many people wanted to shoot him. Nice!

[Betsy Ross]

68. The DU quotes were the only part of the tirade that made any sense.

No such thing as bad publicity? This is a good example. Anyone with even the slightest left leaning should find the DU remarks the only patriotic ones.

[InvisibleTouch]

71. Heh heh. There's no such thing as *bad* publicity.

I've seen it so many times. Someone gets all bent out of shape about a web site, goes on a rant - and sends people there in droves, out of sheer morbid curiosity. When they get there, a good majority of them actually learn something and appreciate it. (I've had this happen to me. I got a huge kick out of being able to publically express my appreciation to the instigators.) We should thank this guy, and everyone like him. ;)

So our strategy is what, now? Deluge him with angry letters, goading him to write even more? Or ignore him so he feels like his squawking into the wind had no effect on anything? The latter is closer to the truth in the larger scheme of things, of course, but tactics would suggest the former approach....

[wryter2000]

72. LOL

So, here's this idiot "columnist" and his whacked views, attacking DU. And here's this fabulous thread full of wonderful English and thoughtful views. Who would I rather read?

:bounce:

[Lautremont]

73. As a columnist he makes a great layout editor.

As a DUer, after reading his attack I feel like I've just been hit in the guts - with a nerf golf ball. Huh? What? Was I just hit with something?

[tanyev]

74. Think it's this Michael Bowers?

If it is, he should disclose that he posts at a wingnut site called Free Republic and, in the interest of fairness, offer a few choice quotes from some of their "finest".

Free Republic Home | Forum | Log In | Register

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Posts by michaelbowers




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I'm so stupid, I signed up and got the Zot.

Posted by michaelbowers to hk409
On Smoky Backroom 01/14/2005 9:15:26 PM PST · 6,443 of 15,531


Zot? Is that some new soda? I'm new here...



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Racist Boondocks Cartoon in Sunday papers 1/9/05

Posted by michaelbowers to American Infidel
On News/Activism 01/14/2005 8:35:56 PM PST · 224 of 225

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/user-posts?name=Michael+Bowers

[Stephanie]

132. Undoubtedly

Has to be a Freeper - no logic whatsoever - only name-calling and threats.

[nightfire]

75. Then there's a favorable DU mention in an election article

From a frequent DU visitor and now a newbie.

Then again there's a favorable DU mention in an election piece in the latest issue of Logos entitled: "Tin Foil Hats, the MSM and Election Mischief" - along with 3 other post-mortems.


http://www.logosjournal.com/issue_4.1/main.htm

Was the 2004 election, perchance, fixed? 1 in 5 Americans, according to a December Gallup poll, suspect so.<1> Four out of five fellow Americans never heard a peep about rigging, believed scoffing authorities, or, being Bush backers, gloated. The first whiff our solid, and mostly white, middle class usually got of electoral mischief was the brief but brave challenge lodged at a joint Congressional election certification session January 6 by thirty-one Congressmen/women and California Senator Barbara Boxer.<2> Indeed, if not for the maligned blogs demanding investigations, such as the forums by Congressman John Conyers’ House Judiciary Committee Democrat minority, ordinary citizens reliant on mainstream media (the MSM, in blogospheric parlance) would imagine that every vote was counted, just as the Fox News fairy tale goes. The MSM insisted that the rumors were, well, you know, a conspiracy made up of internet conspiracy theorists foisting sore loser views on sensible citizens who ought to believe everything they read in the New York Times (thanks for the war, Judith Miller) or watch on cable.

Given the utmost need for a trustworthy voting system it was very odd to watch a suddenly fastidious press, guardians of the public trust, do everything they could to tamp down percolating ‘mis-election’ reports – dismissing them with a royal wave of the hand as sour grapes or batty conspiracy theorizing.<3> . . .

[Hissyspit]

105. Welcome to DU!

[Nothing Without Hope]

78. The only true and sensible things in his article are the DU quotes n/t

[Flagrante]

81. My goodness, open your eyes.

The party in control of the bulk of our government is producing propaganda for the evening news. They are paying journalists to write columns favorable to their policies. They are stacking the white house journalist pool with friendly faces who serve up softball questions. This is unhealthy for any democracy, including ours, and concerns me regardless of the party in power.

In Afghanistan the installed US military bases are along the pipeline route to the Caspian Sea. In Iraq the only buildings secured at the invasion were the Oil and Interior Ministries. In oil rich Venezuela the coup attempt against the democratically elected, not-so US friendly government was aided and abetted by our CIA. Gee, I guess maybe oil is a bit more important a consideration in foreign policy than you give it credit.

I fail to see how the war in Iraq has made the US safer. Saddam’s missiles could barely reach Israel, let alone the US. His regime had suffered a decade of sanctions and was in no position to attack anyone, least of all us. The only thing safer since the war in Iraq began is oil industry profits.

Freedom is no the march? Oh yeah? Tell that to the Haitians and the Venezuelans. Tell it to the children in Iraq who had their arms and legs blown off in the shock and awe campaign. Tell it to the families of the 1500 dead US soldiers. Tell it to the US citizens held in prison with no charges and no access to attorneys or family members. Freedom is not spelled f-a-s-c-i-s-m.

Make stupidity work for you? Seems it is already working.

Best regards,
A lone voice from the rational side.

[glitch]

87. Most excellent - welcome to DU!

I hope you send it, let us know if you get a response. :hi:

[Flagrante]

92. Sent at your urging, Glitch

I'll post any reasonable response.

[Kurovski]

133. welcome to DU!

Enlistment in Al Qaeda in Europe is up specifically because of Iraq invasion.

U.S. military enlistment is down.

I think Americans are figuring this one out.

[hyphenate]

82. How big is the newspaper this dipshit works for?

Otherwise how could a stupid SOB layout editor get a fucking columnist's position? What an asshole. I believe I read something last week that he wrote--he's a motherf**king blowhard who is emulating his masturbatory idol, Mann Coulter.

[linazelle]

160. Very small paper---very low circulation... n/t

[Kurovski]

205. What are those circulation numbers?

I haven't been able to locate them. The population of the area they cover, as of the 2000 census is 929,809.

[Stephanie]

83. Hey! I've been QUOTED! Ha ha ha ha ha!

Deeply stupid editorial, even for a "layout editor." I stand by my statement. Where is Michael Bowers' answer to it? He gives none.

Michael Bowers, if you are reading this, allow me to introduce you to

http://www.newamericancentury.org/

more info here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=103&topic_id=112564#


- read up, then get back to me with a better reply to my statement than calling me a "little Ceausescu."


*edit* Hey Michael, is this your plan for me?

Romanians were furious. They toppled Ceausescu on Dec. 22 and put him and his wife before a secret summary court-martial. On Christmas Day, the couple were shot like dogs.



*edit* Read this one too, Michael Bowers. Then see if you can generate an actual argument rather than just name-calling and threats.

________

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=110&topic_id=80&mesg_id=85&page=

http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2003/10/ma_273_01.html

The Thirty-Year Itch
Three decades ago, in the throes of the energy crisis, Washington's hawks conceived of a strategy for US control of the Persian Gulf's oil. Now, with the same strategists firmly in control of the White House, the Bush administration is playing out their script for global dominance.

By Robert Dreyfuss
March/April 2003 Issue
P L U S :
Oil and Arms: An In-Depth Look

If you were to spin the globe and look for real estate critical to building an American empire, your first stop would have to be the Persian Gulf. The desert sands of this region hold two of every three barrels of oil in the world -- Iraq's reserves alone are equal, by some estimates, to those of Russia, the United States, China, and Mexico combined. For the past 30 years, the Gulf has been in the crosshairs of an influential group of Washington foreign-policy strategists, who believe that in order to ensure its global dominance, the United States must seize control of the region and its oil. Born during the energy crisis of the 1970s and refined since then by a generation of policymakers, this approach is finding its boldest expression yet in the Bush administration -- which, with its plan to invade Iraq and install a regime beholden to Washington, has moved closer than any of its predecessors to transforming the Gulf into an American protectorate.

In the geopolitical vision driving current U.S. policy toward Iraq, the key to national security is global hegemony -- dominance over any and all potential rivals. To that end, the United States must not only be able to project its military forces anywhere, at any time. It must also control key resources, chief among them oil -- and especially Gulf oil. To the hawks who now set the tone at the White House and the Pentagon, the region is crucial not simply for its share of the U.S. oil supply (other sources have become more important over the years), but because it would allow the United States to maintain a lock on the world's energy lifeline and potentially deny access to its global competitors. The administration "believes you have to control resources in order to have access to them," says Chas Freeman, who served as U.S. ambassador to Saudi Arabia under the first President Bush. "They are taken with the idea that the end of the Cold War left the United States able to impose its will globally -- and that those who have the ability to shape events with power have the duty to do so. It's ideology."

Iraq, in this view, is a strategic prize of unparalleled importance. Unlike the oil beneath Alaska's frozen tundra, locked away in the steppes of central Asia, or buried under stormy seas, Iraq's crude is readily accessible and, at less than $1.50 a barrel, some of the cheapest in the world to produce. Already, over the past several months, Western companies have been meeting with Iraqi exiles to try to stake a claim to that bonanza.

But while the companies hope to cash in on an American-controlled Iraq, the push to remove Saddam Hussein hasn't been driven by oil executives, many of whom are worried about the consequences of war. Nor are Vice President Cheney and President Bush, both former oilmen, looking at the Gulf simply for the profits that can be earned there. The administration is thinking bigger, much bigger, than that.

"Controlling Iraq is about oil as power, rather than oil as fuel," says Michael Klare, professor of peace and world security studies at Hampshire College and author of Resource Wars. "Control over the Persian Gulf translates into control over Europe, Japan, and China. It's having our hand on the spigot." <more>

__________

[HEyHEY]

84. "Hating America"

What is wrong with these morons.

[MrModerate]

101. My response to Bowers, just emailed

I'd thank Michael Bowers -- a wholly unqualified commentator to whom you give space in your paper for reasons passing understanding -- to keep his forgiveness to himself. Whether I'm a "sincere" liberal, and worthy of his forgiveness, or any other kind of liberal, and worthy of his scorn, I'd just as soon he put a cork in it. Forgiveness from Bowers is sort of like an endorsement from the KKK. Really more of an embarassment than a reason for pride.

I will, however forgive Bowers. I will forgive his moronic statement that "there MAY have been no link between Saddam and 9-11," since there was absolutely no link between Saddam and 9-11.

I'll forgive his self-congratulation of the "good points" he insists he "usually made" on the theory that it's seldom kind to wake a sleepwalker mid-stride. At least he certainly appears sincere when he says that "to counter those who disagree with me, I had to smash them," as this highlights the vicious, directionless, and ultimately pointless bullying he proposes a few paragraphs earlier.

And as we all know from the example of George Bush, the appearance of sincerity is much more important than having your facts right, or applying wisdom, or using power justly, or even telling the truth.

However, I can't forgive him his terminal ignorance with regard to Nicolai Ceaucescu. I live in Romania. I know a little about Ceaucescu. Romaninan people didn't rub him out because he was deluded about the passing of Communism, they rubbed him out because they'd Had Enough. Enough of his lies, his foolishness, his greed, his arrogance, his corruption, his disregard for human rights and human dignity, and his murders (the Timisoara massacre was only one of many).

The postings Bowers cited from Democratic Underground are not from little Ceaucescus. They're from people who have Had Enough. Enough of an administration steeped in lies, and arrogance, and privilege. An administration willing to murder, imprison, and torture its perceived enemies. An administration that occupies a fantastic bizarro world where democracy can be crammed down people's throats at the point of a gun.

Let's look at those statements that Bowers finds so "miserable":

--"Democracy if it comes will come drenched in blood." This seems a very likely outcome. Do you think Hezbollah is just going to dry up and blow away? Mr. Bowers may find this statement miserable, but it's a sober assessment of what could easily happen.

--"'Freedom is on the march' in the Middle East, and fascism is on the sneak in the U.S. of A." You think this is untrue, Mr. Bowers? If so, I have a few words for you: "Patriot Act," "Guantanamo," "Abu Ghraib," "Sinclair Broadcasting," "PNAC," and "Black-Box Voting." Yeah, I think fascism's on the sneak -- heck it's darn near on the march.

--"If anyone tells you that our country is safer because of the war, they're lying." Well this one might be a bit wrong. I suppose people who believe this could be deluded rather than lying, but that's the only wiggle room you get. US soldiers aren't safer. Mainland US isn't safer from Al Quaeda, since we're spending all our blood and treasure on a country that had nothing to do with the attack on the US. We're not safer when we're training legions of terrorists who will be coming to the US to kill Americans in retaliation for our murder of their countrymen. We're not safer when we push Al Zarqawi into Bin Laden's arms and set him to hatching plots against "soft targets" in the US. And we're not safer when we shred alliances all over the planet that are essential to coordinating the war on terror, or when we enrage over half the planet against us for our callous murder of tens of thousands of their co-religionists. Safer? Puh-leeze! The danger level has shot through the roof precisely as a result of the Iraq war.

--"'Liberating Iraq' is just as big a lie as 'finding the WMD' was. Bush Co. is in Iraq to establish a foothold in order to dominate the entire region and its resources." 'Scuse me, but I was in Iraq shortly after "Major Combat Operations" concluded. I saw the permanent military bases under construction. Anyone who pretends that Bush doesn't plan to maintain a permanent military presence in Iraq precisely to dominate the region is a bigger fool than Bush is for thinking it'll work.

Bowers says it's "depressing" to read such sentiments. I agree. Sometimes the truth hurts. And while I'm not sure exactly how Bush is "making stupidity work for him," I couldn't have put it better myself.

[Plaid Adder]

108. MrModerate, you are my LTTE hero. n/t

[MrModerate]

119. High praise, considering the source. I Blush. n/t

[Stephanie]

115. Excellent!

Google "14 enduring bases" for more info on those installations you saw. We're not going anywhere.

[Joe Chi Minh]

128. Go easy on him, MrModerate...

He's only a cub reporter on a local rag with a personal hygiene problem, and he's become very confused about that.

He had to ask permission to write it, too. "Please, Sir, can I blah, blah....?

[concord]

136. Absolutely fantastic piece MM!!

I'm sending it on in my own circles. Thank you!!!!

:yourock:

[Kurovski]

157. You're letter carries a lot of weight, there.

I'll be carefully looking for it in The Star.

[charming_weasel]

163. Very well thought out and written

You would make a great columnist, imo. Kudos.

[Guaranteed]

166. The point of mine was that they actually know that we're not safer.

When someone is deluding themselves with such a statement, they're lying to both themselves and other people.

[spikesmom]

102. Here is the email I sent Bowers- he is a whiner!

The top part is what I sent him and the bottom is his retort to me

>>You ought to venture out of your republic elitist world and see what many of the average Americans are dealing with. Many of the people who write comments on Democratic Underground have lost their jobs to outsourcing or have lost loved ones to a war that never should have been fought-Iraq.<<

That's a good point. I often have wondered what makes so many people at DU so angry. Maybe they've had bad luck in their lives.

Even so, I don't see the point in raging about Bush and the GOP. Life isn't fair, Jack Kennedy told us in 1962. At some point in your life, you gotta stop complaining and play the hand that you have been dealt. Right?

-mb.

[chomskysright]

107. WRITE that newspaper: letter here w/ e mail addresses....

sent to writer of article and editors:

[email protected]
[email protected],[email protected],[email protected]

March 13, 2005

Dear Mr. Bowers:

I salute anyone expressing their opinion.

Specifically, I read this column of yours: The Newsroom Iconoclast
What I've learned in two years of writing a column Sunday, March 13, 2005 By Michael Bowers, Star columnist


You stated: http://www.starnewspapers.com/star/spedit/col/13-co2.htm

"Now, what's the difference between a nitwit liberal and an honest liberal? One remarkable test has arisen in just the past few weeks, as several nations of the Middle East have taken baby steps toward freedom.

Here is the test: What does the subject think about what is happening in the Middle East this spring? If he is as happy about it as I am, and if he's willing to concede that Bush might have got a few things right, then he deserves respect."


You don't seem to have done your homework. I would hope people can utilize their critical thinking skills and peck around for well-rounded coverage. Its no longer in the newspapers in the US and its not on the TV.

To suit: from a newspaper in Occupied Iraq where the 'let freedom ring crowd' rounds up the locals and drags them off to jail (yessirree: this is what freedom looks like)

http://www.uruknet.info/?l=x&p=-6&size=1&hd=0
Iraqi Resistance Report for events of Sunday, 13 March 2005
Translated and/or compiled by Muhammad Abu Nasr, member editorial board The Free Arab Voice

'In another effort to prevent genuine news and information about the situation in Iraq from reaching the outside world, US forces stormed an Internet café in downtown ar-Ramadi at 9am local time Sunday morning. (Iraqi puppet troops also raided internet cafés in the southern city of al-Hillah. See story below under Babil Province; al-Hillah.) Witnesses told Mafkarat al-Islam that the American troops arrested 11 Iraqis who happened to be there at the time and took them away to a nearby US military base..."


OR maybe you condone the use of chemical weapons in order to 'achieve' a democracy OK:
IRAQ: US used chemical weapons in Fallujah assault
Doug Lorimer, Green Left Weekly

...However, the only US news outlet to carry even a mention of the press conference was the Christian Science Monitor's website. In an March 7 article on the US State Department's annual report on other countries' human rights record, the Boston-based daily reported that “Aljazeera also reported that Dr Khalid ash-Shaykhli, an official at Iraq’s health ministry, told a press conference in Baghdad that his department's investigation in the conflict in Fallujah show that US forces used ‘internationally banned weapons' during its offensive last November, including napalm and jet fuel. The United States has never signed the treaty that banned the use of napalm against civilians”...


OR maybe you think that democracy is best achieved when you can fly your prisoners to countries where they can be more 'optimally' tortured:

"In the rush of recent news about renditions, extraordinary renditions, the beating to death and systematic abuse of prisoners in Afghanistan, the holding of children as young as 11 in Abu Ghraib prison, the desire of Donald Rumsfeld to transfer large numbers of prisoners in Guantánamo back to their countries of origin, and other tales of detention mayhem, a piece tucked away in the crease column, deep inside last Tuesday's New York Times, was easy enough to overlook."



And as re: that 'democratic election' and its sequelae, I wouldn't be waving my arms around too much yet: you might end up like Bush re: Social Security with even the Blue Dog Dems dug in:

http://www.uruknet.info/?p=10350&hd=0&size=1&l=x
Talks on Iraq government fail
Khaled Yacoub Oweis

"BAGHDAD, March 13, 2005 (Reuters) - Iraq's leading parties have failed to reach a deal on forming a new government before the first meeting of parliament, crushing hopes a much-needed cabinet would start to tackle relentless violence...."

Do your homework before you scribe the words, Mr. Bowers or stop pretending to be associated with what used to be the well-respected world of journalism.


Sincerely,

[chomskysright]

109. occupied Iraq newspaper: incred: http://www.uruknet.info/?l=x&p=-6&size=1&

excellent articles. check them out.

[Stephanie]

111. Would Zappa fans weigh in here please?

Do you have cites so we can educate this dumbass about Zappa's politics? thanks!

[MsMagnificent]

171. "Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. " & more Zappa quotes

Americans like to talk about (or be told about) Democracy but, when put to the test, usually find it to be an 'inconvenience.' We have opted instead for an authoritarian system disguised as a Democracy. We pay through the nose for an enormous joke-of-a-government, let it push us around, and then wonder how all those assholes got in there.

Decades of indoctrination, manipulation, censorship and KGB excursions haven't altered this fact: People want a piece of their own little Something-or-Other, and, if they don't get it, have a tendency to initiate counterrevolution.

Let's not be too tough on our own ignorance. It's the thing that makes America great. If America weren't incomparably ignorant, how could we have tolerated the last eight years?

The last election just laid the foundation of the next 500 years of Dark Ages --1981

The ONLY thing that seems to band all nations together, is that their governments are universally bad....

Washington, D.C.: a city infested with statues -- and Congressional Blow-Boys who WISH they were statues.

Diamonds on velvets on goldens on vixen
On comet & cupid on donner & blitzen
On up & away & afar & a go-go
Escape from the weight of your corporate logo!

Don't clap for destroying America. This place is as good as you want to make it.
--Zappa introduced "Billy the Mountain" by revealing that Billy and
Ethel took a vacation trip across the united States, destroying it in the process. This was Zappa's response to the applause and cheers from the audience. Cleveland Colliseum, 1971

This is a really nice place. Don't fuck it up.

THE VERY BIG STUPID is a thing which breeds by eating The
Future. Have you seen it? It sometimes disguises itself as a
good-looking quarterly bottom line, derived by closing the R&D
Department.

On a personal level, Freaking Out is a process whereby an individual casts off outmoded and restricting standars of thinking, dress, and social etiquette in order to express CREATIVELY his relationship to his immediate environment and the social structure as a whole.

The more BORING a child is, the more the parents, when showing off the child, receive adulation for being GOOD PARENTS -- because they have a TAME CHILD-CREATURE in their house.

The worst aspect of `typical familyism' (as media-merchandised) is that it glorifies *involuntary homogenization*.

The language and concepts contained herein are guaranteed not to cause eternal torment in the place where the guy with the horns and pointed stick conducts his business.

It would be easier to pay off the national debt overnight than to neutralize the long-range effects of OUR NATIONAL STUPIDITY.

Nuclear explosions under the Nevada desert?
What the fuck are we testing for?
We already know the shit blows up.

Star Wars won't work. Star Wars won't work.
The gas still gets through; it could get right on
you. And what about those germs, now?
Star Wars won't work

fuck that! when did mediocrity and banality become a good image for your children?

I knew Jimi (Hendrix) and I think that the best thing you could say about Jimi was: there was a person who shouldn't use drugs.

A mind is like a parachute. It doesnt work if it is not open.

Heaven would be a place where bullshit existed only on television.
Hallelujah! We's halfway there!
--in a Television interview :>

Golly, do I ever have alot of soul!!

Shoot low, they're riding Shetlands

Everyone in thes room is wearing a uniform, and don't kid yourself
--Live at the Circle Star, from 20 Years on the Road, when notified there were "cops in uniform" in the audience.

Get smart and i`ll fuck you over-Sayeth The Lord
About the basics of Christianity and it`s perpetuation of ignorance as a way of life

Scientology, how about that? You hold on to the tin cans and then this guy asks you a bunch of questions, and if you pay enough money you get to join the master race. How's that for a religion?

Producing satire is kind of hopeless because of the literacy rate of
the American public.

The manner in which Americans "consume" music has a lot to do with leaving it on their coffee tables, or using it as wallpaper for their lifestyles, like the score of a movie -- it's consumed that way without any regard for how and why it was made. (***One of my fave all time quotes -MsM)


***AND, in case you were still wondering about that urban legend:

"I can gross out anybody in this room."

"I never took a shit on stage, and the closest I ever came to eating shit anywhere was at a Holiday Inn buffet in Fayetteville, North Carolina, in 1973.

[Stephanie]

180. Thank you!

[MsMagnificent]

114. "Soon he (Bush) will be remembered along with FDR and Reagan"

Is this guy a comedy writer?

ROFLMAOPMP


Not funny, he is disdainful of "democracy, if it comes, will be drenched in blood."

I got news for him: Bringing "American" Democracy to the Middle East (not to mention El Salvador and other countries in the America's) IS drenched in blood.

Guess it's a good thing the White House supresses pictures of our servicepeoples coffins -- whiny Michael Bowers may feel the need to take a shower.

So he's what passes for the Right Wing Patriot nowadays? God help us.

[onethatcares]

144. didn't zappa also say,

"one day the curtain will be pulled back"? I don't remember the last words verbatim but it had something to do with the blood on the wall. When I first came to DU, it was someones' tag line, sorry I forgot the ending.

[MsMagnificent]

172. I'm still hunting for that quote :(

[LibertyorDeath]

121. Well if he can't see the Truth in this he's either Lying or

Retarded.

Stephanie says: "'Liberating Iraq' is just as big a lie as 'finding the WMD' was. Bush Co. is in Iraq to establish a foothold in order to dominate the entire region and its resources. They have no intention of allowing genuine democracies." *snip*

maybe both

[Cocoa]

124. these things come in cycles

every time one of their "vindications" happens, these fools write these stupid gloating columns, mocking people who are right.

Here's one of my favorites, by Kathleen Parker, who not only believed that the obvious "Saddam statue" stunt was authentic, but actually thought it was SIGNIFICANT:

Liberation tastes like crow to antiwar crowd

[bvar22]

196. That column was HYSTERICAL!!!

There was a link at the bottom to contact Kathleen Parker.

I couldn't resist.
This is what I sent:

Hi Kathleen,
I just had the opportunity to read a column you penned in April of 2003.
It was absolutely hysterical. I'm sending it to all my friends and posting to liberal blogs on the Internet.
The column is titled "Liberation tastes like crow to anti-war crowd" and a copy can be found at this link:

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/kathleenparker/kp20030412.shtml

In retrospect, you could not have been more wrong. Those of us who knew Bush was lying were proved absolutely right.
You were easily duped, but don't feel bad, half of America believed the hype and lies.
Did you really believe Powell when he used cartoon drawings as proof that Saddam had WMDs. I didn't. I was right.
You were wrong, and IT IS HARD to be humble.

Are you considering a column of apology for your misguided insults and smears? a mea culpa for your errors?
a dinner of crow to heal your false pride?

Sincerely,
XXXXXXXXX
St Paul, MN

PS: I hate to repeat myself (no I don't), but your column was REALLY, REALLY funny.
Pride does go before a fall.

[Cocoa]

208. thank you!

I am so glad you contacted her about this column, I think she should never be allowed to forget how TOTALLY FUCKING WRONG she was, along with all her hawk friends.

[bvar22]

209. This would make a good thread topic.

Please read the column at the following link and post your comments. Also note the "contact me" link at the bottom.

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/kathleenparker/kp20030412.shtml

[Joe Chi Minh]

126. "They make me need a shower".

There you go again, Mikey, blaming others. You turn out columns like that, even in a local rag, and the smell that follows you everywhere will *never* go away. Imagine mentioning Reagan in the same breath as FDR!!!! Who next? Ollie North?

[Kurovski]

131. PAGING SKINNER!

Would you have time to write an article stating what DU is all about?
The Star welcomes articles with opposing views. Bowers has mis-represented DU in the past, and is likely to continue.

You did an excellent, concise job with the NYT, and there are many thousands of potential new DUers in the region. It would be like an act of mercy for the people to find their way to DU!

Please consider it.

[Cell Whitman]

135. Zappa said Reagan was leading us to a "Fascist theocracy"

He said it on Crossfire in 1986.

He said "The biggest threat to America today is not communism, it's moving America towards a fascist theocracy and everything that has happened during the Reagan administration is steering us right down that pipe."

Zappa was 100% correct.

What's really ironic is that John Lofton the Moonie Times shill - writer is the one laughing at the statement. The Washington Times was Moon's main tool to drive us to where we are now, a FASCIST THEOCRACY in diapers.

You can find the Crossfire with Zappa by scrolling down on the left here:

http://www.ifilm.com/viralvideo




Read an outline of how Moon did it here:
http://cellwhitman.blogspot.com/

[Inland]

139. I've said things farther out than that, why no mention for Inland!

Bull goose looney, no exit, stephanie are DNC moderates compared to me, why aren't I in the paper as the enemy?

[Joey Liberal]

143. Thank You Stephanie & BullGooseLoony!

You made a right wing wacko mad! That's always a good thing! Keep it up! Let's make more right wingers mad!

[Joey Liberal]

146. I JUST E-MAILED MR. BOWERS

I just e-mailed the moron Bowers. Hope a lot of you do the same!

[Plaid Adder]

149. The layout editor/columnist thing

To everyone who was asking WTF would make a layout editor a columnist: Actually, it is not as uncommon as you would think. A friend of mine from college works as an editor at a regional paper and they've given her a column too. She seems to have done pretty well with it. A lot of people who get those editing jobs are also writers, so it does make some sense for people to be doing both jobs.

So, the fact that the Star gave an editor a column doesn't necessarily mean that they're a piece of shit paper. The fact that they gave THIS guy a column, well, who can fathom that, but whatever.

Anyway, lay off the Star, you're makin' Kurovski upset! Do you work there, Kurovski, or are you just a faithful reader?

C ya,

The Plaid Adder

[Kurovski]

152. No workee dere, I'm fabulously, independently wealthy.

I just get all itchy when I know for a fact something is being mis-represented. (but I have no problem mis-representing my wealth)

Once again, Plaid Adder stands up for truth!

[kbm8170]

185. Simply being able to memorize Party cliches

and reproduce them doesn't make someone either a journalist or a writer, especially in a publication that wants to present itself as interested in informing the public. This also doesn't mean there isn't a place for a conservative viewpoint - but there is a difference between constructing thoughtful, insightful opinions and reciting Party nonsense.

I don't see where this columnist has any more validity in published regular rantings than, say, Jeff Gannon was a journalist. And again, unless I saw a regular columnist in that paper whose entire function was to throw partisan tantrums and trash conservatives about everything, the editorial page isn't balanced.

[Kurovski]

188. That is an excellent point.

And it is one that had not occured to me. I hope you will send that well expressed thought in a LTTE.

[email protected]

But the truth is also that The Star has been mis-represented in many other ways, and that is what I've been addressing as well.

Here is a column about "buying" news coverage

http://www.starnewspapers.com/star/spedit/col/17-co1.htm

Many Right-Wingers would argue that this is a partisan tantrum, and that Bowers is therefore entitled to his.

Set them straight, so it is at least on the record.

Again, an excellent point kbm8170, and one I hope to see in print.

[bloom]

191. The WSJ makes no bones about the fact

that their editorials represent the publisher and their readership of "privileged" individuals. They have no intention of being balanced.

You can't necessarily expect that a paper would be. People should know to read various sources or at least be aware of the bias they subscribe to.

[The_Casual_Observer]

150. That asshole calls himself an Iconoclast. He isn't an iconoclast

at all. He is a bush sycophant butt sniffer.

[Mr_Spock]

154. Michael Bowers - I'd smash your sally face in - let's make an appointment.

People like you - a true coward - honestly dude - I'll kick your ass any time you're ready.

[Catamount]

159. You sure this isn't more by *'s mandate Gannie/Guckie????

The script sounds so familiar!:think:

[charming_weasel]

164. My first foray in to posting on DU - been lurking for a while...

...and hopefully y'all can give me a bit of feedback on my correspondence with Mikey:

I)
Subject:

Excellent work on the Democratic Underground column!

Body:

...if your goal was to give me a headache on abusing English:

When a person leaves a message on a message board, they WRITE, not SAY it.

If I was your Editor, you'd be on the Shame Train back to basic
English and I'd have your job...but you're a Layout Editor, and I'm a
Professional Writer. I don't want your job. I'd rather you were
replaced by a person with at least an ounce of Professionalism.

This is not a personal attack, but an honest question: I don't
pretend to be a Surgeon because I respect the talent, effort, and
practice involved to be a true Professional. Who deserves to be
influencing the public through a communicative medium?

Let's break it down:

A. You - a Layout Editor with a grudge and language skills akin to
Koko the Gorilla, or

B. Me - an objective, rational, educated, and honest person.

Because I have other things to do, allow me to quote you, quoting
Zappa, in a very ironic fashion:

"But then I remember a few words from Frank Zappa, and I feel a little
better. To paraphrase, he once said: The world isn't getting any
smarter. Make stupidity work for you."

With sincerity and without courtesy,

(My degrees and associations to show I have plenty of confidence, lol)
Not a bombastic ideologue


To which he responded:

II)

> This is not a personal attack, but an honest question: I don't
> pretend to be a Surgeon because I respect the talent, effort, and
> practice involved to be a true Professional. Who deserves to be
> influencing the public through a communicative medium?
>
>
> That's an interesting question. Do you want my column? You have to do it
> for free; and you have to do it on your own time; and you have to have one
> every other week, whether you have a good idea or not.
>
> Still interested?
>
> -mb.


Imagine my surprise - he apparently hates writing! The window of opportunity was wiiiiiiiide open with that one...

III)

Mikey,

Apparently the concept of relying on one's own abilities to meet
reasonable deadlines is just too much stress for your mental
composition. Maybe that would explain why you're such an angry
writer? It doesn't, however, excuse you from being orgasmically
ignorant of the English language, decency, and general history.

Of course I'm interested in taking over "your" column - last I
checked, that space belonged to the paper, and the paper answers to
the people. If getting your vile hacking trash out of public view is
the only compensation I get, then by God, take your foot out of your
mouth, bubba.

Just so you know, I'm going to go ahead and send this whole
conversation to every Editor at your paper. They deserve to know the
truth about your attitude and approach to "your column". Consider
yourself lucky to have had 2 years with the honor of writing a column
for the benefit of the public. If you approach Layout Editing the
same way you approach writing, you might want to drop by Monster.com
pretty soon.

It's not like every day a person gets an opportunity to publish...I'm
going in to this with the right intentions - not out of hate (well,
unless you count my nemesis Ignorance) - and they've never led me
astray in the past. Luck is not an issue with me. It's a matter of
skill and purity - neither of which belong anywhere near your name,
especially if your shower habits are as depraved as you poorly
described.

You don't intimidate me, so don't try. I pity you the same way I pity
any cur with a ghastly case of mange.

Have a drink on me, because the joke's on you...

[Jack Rabbit]

170. Welcome to DU, Charming Weasel

Actually, I didn't find his tone angry, just flippant.

The joke is not really on Mr. Bowers, but on Mr. Bush. After all, Bush only started emphasizing invading Iraq to "spread democracy" after his other rationales were exposed as lies. Even then, he didn't want to hold elections, he would have preferred a byzantine system of caucuses that he could control and would have produced a puppet regime from a transitional government. However, Ayatollah Sistani insisted on direct elections because he knew his people would win them; Sistani backed his demands with credible threats of mass demonstrations and civil unrest. Bush had little choice but to give in.

In the elections, the voters outside Kurdistan had a choice between:

• Sistani's slate, which called for making Sharia the basis of Iraqi civil law, for demanding a timetable for the withdrawal of foreign troops and repeal of Proconsul Bremer's colonial decrees; and
• a slate headed by Bush's water boy in Baghdad, Iyad Allawi.

Frankly, I don't think a choice between Islamic republicans, who raise concerns about whether the rights of women and religious minorities will be protected, and a bunch pro-colonialist quislings leaves a lot of room for democracy. Democracy wasn't on the table and Bush did not intend for it to be.

In Kurdistan, where a Kurdish nationalist slate won, the discussion has not yet reached the stage where democracy is on the agenda. The dialog among the Kurds is about whether they would be better off as part of an Iraqi federation or declaring outright independence.

The "baby steps toward democracy" in Egypt and Saudi Arabia are a joke. They are empty gestures by authoritarian rulers. Who do Mr. Mubarak and the House of Saud think they're kidding? Besides Mr. Bowers, that is.

In Lebanon, there are democratic institutions such as an elected parliament and a press regarded as the most free in the region, even when held up to Israel's; these institutions were in place in Lebanon long before Mr. Bush seized power and began undermining democratic institutions in America. Moreover, the calls in Lebanon for Syrian troops to leave were precipitated not by anything Mr. Bush did, but by the assassination of a popular leader, a deed widely believed. although not proved, to be the responsibility of one clique or another in Syria.

It is the EU that does more trade with Syria and thus has more influence. Mr. Bush is simply making a lot of noise hoping to take credit when the Syrians withdraw. No doubt the US corporate media will spin it his way, but the rest of the world will know better, just as the rest of the world knew better about his rationales for the invasion of Iraq.

Calls for foreign troops to leave one's soil and to use one's nation's natural resources for the benefit of that nation's people do not necessarily have anything to do with democracy. It is nationalism that is being expressed. However, nationalism flies in the face of the colonial designs Mr. Bush and his neoconservative aides had for Iraq. When the Iraqi voters gave almost have their votes to the United Iraqi Alliance and only 14% to Allawi's list, it was Mr. Bush and his occupation who were repudiated.

[charming_weasel]

175. Well, I disagree about the tone...

Flippant is one thing, but the man openly admits to writing out of spite.

The joke is on him, because he is everything he hates, and it shows in his confused, scattered, and weak product.

He points the finger at DU, but we're only holding up a mirror.

My strong reaction to Bowers, in accord with calling myself a dyed in the wool multi-media Artist (with a portfolio to prove it), is that he abuses the integrity of not only the language, but of the power and responsibility involved with being a Writer. That's Writer, with a capital 'w'.

I believe people neglect to think that writing is a two way street - writers write because people will read. A comparison might be live music performances - I always felt disappointed when playing to "an empty house", as the saying goes. Yes, we can ignore him, but that would be a silent complicity with his motives, which I find horrifying. I ignore a great deal of processed, cheap music (a la Ashlee Simpson), but it sells...whether I like it or not...and it sells better than genres which seem to favor "musicianship" over "is this suitable for mass consumption?" mentalities. This is how I view things to 'operate', so to speak, in regards to documents I have no problem calling Intellectual Poison. They exist on both sides of the spectrum...

He's not a writer, and he should stop writing for one reason:

The people of Chicago deserve pieces that inspire community discussion - not picking sides for an impending fight.

Give a man a fish versus Teach a man to fish.

Thanks for the info and further clarification as to the region - I just think writing "the rest of the world will know better" is a mild cop-out. Sadly, my native nation doesn't even know better (en masse), which means my job is that much harder:

Educate.

Think of my position as being based in some linguistic concepts (or reflective / my interpretations of them, for good or ill) which seem to infer something like We can only "think" in terms of what we know - Spin, deceit, half-truths - these are roadblocks being foisted on innocents. For shame.

Again, thank you for your response & cheers.

[Jack Rabbit]

181. The rest of the world will know better; how about America?

Mr. Bowers (I assume that he is lurking) is no doubt confused at some of my posts (see the subthread above where I discuss these issues with Stephanie). How can I decry the lack of information from the mainstream media yet be informed at the same time?

The answer, obviously, is that I looked beyond the mainstream media. I have urged people on these forums and elsewhere to turn off their television sets, put down their newspapers and get their news from the internet. Look to the foreign press, some American based websites on the fringe of the establishment like Salon, TomPaine and CommonDreams, and even alternative media such as Pacifica Radio (although much of that should be taken with a grain of salt). The BBC, not exactly a bastion of leftist ideology, has been for decades a source of news of information for those living in countries deprived of a free and independent press. That is a good reason for Americans living in the age of Bush and corporatism to read the BBC Online.

Those who got there information prior to the invasion from CNN or from The New York Times were just as likely to be misinformed as those getting their information from a shameless propaganda outlet like FoxNews. Polls showed that even as late as April 2004, a year after the invasion, most Americans still had serious misconceptions about Iraq. Polls showed that by November, fewer Americans had these misconceptions, although the number was still alarming. Moreover, most people who had such misconceptions -- believing, for example, that there were WMDs or that Saddam had active ties to al Qaida -- voted for Bush and that most people who voted for Bush had these misconceptions. I guess Mr. Bowers is right about one thing: Mr. Bush knows how to make stupidity work for him.

I first knew that an office had been set up in the Pentagon to cook intelligence not from Ray McGovern or Seymour Hersh after the invasion, but from Julian Borger in the Guardian Unlimited, who wrote about it in October 2002. I also knew from following the British press that the same document on which Colin Powell relied to build his case against Iraq when he appeared before the UN also stated that General Kamel had ordered Iraq's chemical weapons destroyed shortly after the 1991 war. It was from Salon and from listening to Pacifica Radio that I learned of Scott Ritter's critique of assessments of Saddam's biochemical capabilities. It was in the BBC that I learned that Saddam's overall capabilities in the spring of 2003 were not even what they were at the time the 1991 war ended. It was also from the BBC that I learned there was no reason to suppose that Saddam had ties to al Qaida and that, in fact, Saddam was most brutal toward Iraqi Islamic fundamentalists and that Osama wanted to kill Saddam. I also knew from the BBC about the no-bid contracts awarded to Bush's corporate cronies long before the first cruise missiles sailed over Baghdad.

Consequently, because I sought quality information, I marched against the war during the run up to it as an informed citizen. I knew that Saddam was a paper tiger who posed no threat to his weakest neighbor, let alone to the United States, and that Saddam had no ties to al Qaida. I knew that Bush and his aides were deliberately lying to build up support for their war. As an American, I already knew about the theft of the 2000 election, the Patriot Act, the opaque meetings between Cheney and energy moguls to determine US energy policy, "free speech zones" and other assaults on American democratic institutions and traditions. The idea that people such as Bush and those around him were going to bring democracy to Iraq while undermining it in America seemed ludicrous. This was looking lees and less like a war being planned and fought for any valid national security concerns and more and more like one solely to create business opportunities for war profiteers.

Today, 150,000 US troops are on occupation duty in Iraq rather than hunting Osama and al Qaida. Americans were not made safer as a result of this war.

Most likely, Iraqis will be better off for Saddam having passed the scene. Removing Saddam was the only good thing to result from this action. Nevertheless, I have big, big problems with both Islamic republicanism, which is the direction Iraq is now headed, and colonialism, which is what Bush would have imposed on Iraq. Democracy -- a system of government built on the equality of all citizens and a set of civil liberties to insure a free and open discussion of civic affairs -- was not and is not a choice in Iraq.

There is no credit to give to Bush and the neoconservatives. Any progress being made is being made in spite of them, not because of them. These people are still dangerous and don't have the welfare of common people in mind, either at home or abroad.

Mr. Bowers can call me irredeemable if he likes. I still think anybody who says what he does is either a liar or a fool.

[bvar22]

195. If I could nominate individual posts for Greatest,

I would nominate this one.

WELL DONE and worthy of a thread of its own!

[Kurovski]

177. Your writing style is familiar.

Can't quite think of who it reminds me of.

Did the Batcave have something in it that would help me out?

Welcome to DU! :-)

[charming_weasel]

178. hehe I'm busted :P

One hardcore Dr.HST fan right here...although during my revision process, I often pare down whatever influences I find for the sake of his legacy. That's how much I respect him.

In all honesty, my background is so stuffed with things I've read, I'd have to start discussing all the Essayists, Poets, Fiction Authors, and Philosophers I've had the pleasure (or displeasure, on occasion) of reading.

As for familiarity, well, let's just say my goal is to write so clearly that my style doesn't interfere with the intended meaning(s). The more comfortable my words are to read, when not trying to push buttons or set rhetorical traps, the more likely a person is to not dismiss my work.

Like John Milton's education...If one can successfully win a debate using the the POV that "Day is better than Night", then flip it and win the "Night is better than Day" side, well, that's having the language work for you :)

[Kurovski]

194. I see charming_weasel was tombstoned.

Anyone know when exactly it is that he ran out of charm?

[Guaranteed]

174. Here's the original thread that he quoted from:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=3240081#3240184

[textureglitch]

187. Who the heck is this idiot?

Not even I wrote this badly when I was in elementary school. I hope this guy doesn't think he's a journalist or anything, his writing is absolutely horrid.

His comparisons are strained and one-dimensional, there's no visible flow in his writing, it's all just a bunch of random, unrelated stories.
He follows the conservative line of calling everyone who criticizes his views communists and conspiracy theorists.

What scares me the most is that this guy actually has all the facts right there in front of him. i.e. 'violence is not the answer', 'there is no link between 9/11 and Saddam', all the quotes from the DU forum, etc.

And he still doesn't get it.

While reading through his comparison of Ceausescu and how he was a leader who, despite all reason and despite pressure from the rest of the world, still relentless clung to his warped ideals and twisted form of leadership until the public was so outraged they had to take matter into their own hands, I was thinking that he could not possibly be referring to anyone but bush..

Alas...

[Oeditpus Rex]

192. Coincidentally...

...there's a thread at http://www.testycopyeditors.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=25024#25024">Testy Copy Editors that addresses an aspect of this column — not the "little Ceausescus" part, but one that copy editors talk about when they're... well, testy.

Naturally, I had to post this column there. :evilgrin:

[Kurovski]

193. Broken link.

Is this it? (3rd down?, posted by Oeditpus Rex?)

http://www.testycopyeditors.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=4022

Welcome to DU!

[Oeditpus Rex]

198. Good catch

Yeah, that's the thread. I somehow managed to put "http" twice in the link.

And thanks. :)

[CBHagman]

197. Newsroom Iconoclast? Ignoramus is more like it.

Oy, not another one. How long shall I endure people who proclaim to me what Dr. Spock taught, where pacificists come from, and what the nature of self-defense is?

Here are some snippets from Bowers, who obviously mistakes watching movies and recycling 30-year-old conservative talking points for actually learning something about the world and forming opinions:

"I said today's pacifists are still brainwashed by the lessons of Dr. Spock, who taught Baby Boomers in the 1960s that violence is never the answer. Kids bullied on the playground are not allowed to hit back. Likewise, when bullied, America is not allowed to hit back either."

For starters, pacificism is not exactly the invention of the 1960s. Otherwise, how could C.S. Lewis, writing in the 1940s, write, "I can respect an honest pacificist, though I think he is entirely mistaken." Then again, C.S. Lewis had firsthand experience of what was then called the Great War and therefore had some understanding of what was involved.

Secondly, this baby boomer read Dr. Spock over 30 years ago and is still trying to figure out why people make such wild generalizations about his child-rearing books. Spock dealt with garden-variety things like dealing with a fussy eater, taking a baby's temperature, and other politically hot topics. I've since learned that since Spock's politics were not to the right's liking (I recall his wife got arrested in anti-war protests, though I don't recall that he was), they like to "blame" him for liberal ideas. :eyes:

Bowers is not terribly troubled by facts, to say the least, nor does he seem to really understand history (or, for that matter, current events). For starters, no one can really mistake George W. Bush for a human rights proponent or a peacemaker, for he has no record of either activity. He will always be the president who introduced us to the term "rendition."

Secondly, activists by the thousands, many of whom are totally unknown to us in the West, have long worked on behalf of their people in the Middle East and in other areas where democracy is unknown. But Bowers would have us believe that it's all about Bush, just as the right generally credits Reagan with the fall of communism (Never mind the decades of work that preceded it, nor the fact that the Soviet Union couldn't sustain itself, and the West knew it).

I could go on, but you get the idea. What is most mystifying is that someone with Bowers' lack of skill and understanding is given a COLUMN to write. Then again, there's lots of equally ignorant company for him in the press, airwaves and cyberspace.

[ultraist]

199. EXCELLENT quotes DUers!

Well done Stephanie, No Exit and BullGooseLoony!

:bounce:

Fuck the asshole reporter, YOUR QUOTES WERE PUBLISHED and read.

[LittleClarkie]

200. FDR and Reagan?

Nah. Hitler and Mussolini maybe.

Or maybe Evita. "Don't cry for me, San Anton-yo!"

[Kurovski]

201. George is even on his own Evita-styled Rainbow Tour.

Assuring us that goodies will fall from the sky for us peons.

[walldude]

202. Lol.. what a loser

this was my favorite:

I said today's pacifists are still brainwashed by the lessons of Dr. Spock, who taught Baby Boomers in the 1960s that violence is never the answer. Kids bullied on the playground are not allowed to hit back. Likewise, when bullied, America is not allowed to hit back either.

Hehe.. actually man, what we are against here, to use your hilarious metaphor, is that when a kid gets bullied by the jungle gym on the playground he goes and punches out the kid on the swings... get it? Or perhaps you missed that look Porter Goss shot at the president when Bush said we are seeking daily to find Osama...
What surprises me is that your juvenile perspective on the world is actually printed in a newspaper. You must be part of the elite liberal media...

[mpendragon]

212. other lessons we've learned . . .

While I know who Dr. Spock is, the lessons I've learned about Iraq have come from different places:

1. We armed Iraq under Saddam to fight Iranians, so it doesn't appear that conservatives and some democrats gave that much of a damn about the long term well being of the Middle Eastern people. Saddam used that support to harm Kuwaitis and his own people. The net result was oil producing nations sold a lot of oil to finance their military. This combined, with nations breaking OPEC quotas, gave the west (esp. the US) cheap oil.

2. Iraq is very hard to run: wikipedia

3. We haven't gotten a straight answer as to why we are there, what we hoped to accomplish, and what specific criteria do we use to measure success. No weapons of mass destruction have been found in Iraq and there was no significant terrorist activity in Iraq before the invasion.

4. 1500+ Americans dead and 5800+ severely wounded in Iraq and Afghanistan and tens of thousands of Afghans and Iraqis dead.

5. The US now tortures prisoners. Prisoners as in "people we've detained" not "people that we're sure are terrorists". We also send them abroad to be tortured in other countries.

6. US firms related to the administration are making billions on shady contracts.

7. We've lied to and mocked long time allies over this war and now we're asking them for help.

8. The huge and growing international demand for oil (China, India, and developing nations) would give the US a powerful strategic advantage if we were to control a major oil producing nation.

9. There are other nations with brutal dictatorships suppressing democratic initiatives but we aren't helping them and we've been trying to overthrow democratically elected leaders in South America that the administration doesn't like.

10. Warlords have reclaimed most of Afghanistan outside of Kabul. Why should I believe that we'll do a better job in Iraq?

11. We knew that a lot of the information we were getting from Achmed Chalabi and his group was junk designed to move the US to invade Iraq.

Maybe newspapers should inform their readers about what the government is up to instead of letting some ignorant jerk whine about people he doesn't agree with. I don't think the issue is with people on the left not wanting Iraq or the rest of the Middle East to be free. I think you'd be hard pressed to find a liberal that wouldn't prefer a free Middle East to an oppressed one. I think the issues are:

1. Can US citizens trust this administration after all of their deceptions?

2. What was the real motivation for this war?

3. Are US citizens being ripped off by friends of the administration?

4. If everyone in the adminstration thinks torture is wrong, then why do we send people out of the country to be tortured?

5. How will we repair relationships with our allies now?

6. Will we leave Iraq better than we found it? Will all the deaths be worth it?

7. When will we be done with Iraq?

8. Is the US safer for having done this?

I know this is a little more difficult than totalitarian communist = bad and dictatorship = bad (when they don't do what we want) but I think Mr. Bowers can grasp the difference between being against democracy in the Middle East and not trusting incomptent liars to accomplish it.

[Undercover Owl]

203. I replied to the author!!

Here's what I wrote to the author:

"You can hardly open a newspaper or magazine without reading some fervid Bush opponent painfully acknowledging that hey, maybe the president wasn't so wrong about the Middle East after all."

Exactly who are these "liberals" you speak of, who would cheapen their character by kissing Bush's boots?

"Liberals" like those might as well turn Republican. They may even be willing to do a Gannon trick, and prostitute themselves.

[fooj]

204. Kool-aid, anyone?

[BrightKnight]

206. Publish an article about recent underhanded attacks on DU.

There have been a number of these underhanded attacks on DU. It would not be difficult to expose them for what they are. Throw in a few freeper quotes for laughs.

[Tace]

213. That's A Really Good Idea

[grumpy old fart]

207. My email to Mr. Bowers.....

"I said today's pacifists are still brainwashed by the lessons of Dr. Spock, who taught Baby Boomers in the 1960s that violence is never the answer. Kids bullied on the playground are not allowed to hit back. Likewise, when bullied, America is not allowed to hit back either."

The foregoing paragraph follows your statement, "I conceded there may have been no link between Saddam and 9-11".

So, to follow your logic, Billy hits me on the playground. I then have every right to go up to Jimmy, a lowlife bully, and beat the crap out of him. Hell, maybe even stomp anyone unlucky enough to simply be in the vicinity of Jimmy. Pure genius.

By the way, Billy is sitting on the park bench laughing his ass off the whole time.

[Fovea]

210. How jejune

Godwin's law-- Romanian Variant.