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Barrett808 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 10:20 AM
Original message
Soldiers who refused duty said to face discipline
Soldiers who refused duty said to face discipline
By Tom Bowman, Baltimore Sun | November 16, 2004

WASHINGTON -- Soldiers from an Army Reserve unit in Iraq who refused to take part in a convoy last month, citing security concerns and maintenance problems with their vehicles, are facing disciplinary action and some could be charged criminally, Pentagon and military officials said yesterday.

As many as two dozen soldiers from the 343d Quartermaster Company, an Army Reserve based in Rock Hill, S.C., were part of the investigation that began Oct. 13 when soldiers refused to take part in a cross-country fuel convoy.

The mission was carried out later by others from the 120-soldier unit who took the convoy from Tallil air base near the southern Iraqi city of Nasiriyah to Taji north of Baghdad.

A Pentagon official, who requested anonymity, said a number of soldiers under investigation are facing an Article 15 -- an administrative action that could lead to a fine, loss of pay or rank -- or letters of reprimand. As many as five could be recommended for criminal charges and the possibility of courts martial, the official said.

(more)

http://www.boston.com/news/world/articles/2004/11/16/so...
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hollywood926 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 10:24 AM
Response to Original message
1. Great...don't give them any protection, send them into danger....
and then punish them for not going on a suicidal mission.

Gooooood. :puke:
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jayfish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 10:33 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. Fantastic!
Shoot a half-dead guy in the head because he may be dangerous is all well and good. But refuse to drive a truck because it may be dangerous and it's ...off to the brig. This is the first time I have used this expression, but are we through the looking-glass here?

Jay
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Rose Siding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 10:47 AM
Response to Reply #4
8. Wrong is right, war is peace, strength is weakness...
and Republicans are moral.

The juxtaposition of societal priorities is complete.

Report to your local Homeland Security office for reprogramming.
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yellerpup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 10:32 AM
Response to Original message
2. My ex-husband, a 'Nam Vet said, "I went when they drafted
me because I was afraid of what they would do to me if I didn't. Once I got there, I realized that there was nothing worse they could do than send me to Viet Nam.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 10:32 AM
Response to Original message
3. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
B3Nut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 12:47 PM
Response to Reply #3
15. Almost makes me think of Steppenwolf's 'Draft Resistor"
He was talkin' 'bout the army while he passed his pipe around
An American deserter who found peace on Swedish ground
He had joined to seek adventure and to prove himself a man
But they tried to crush his spirit 'til his conscience ruined their plans
And we thought of those who suffer for the sake of honesty
All those who refuse to follow traitors to humanity

Here's to all the draft resisters who will fight for sanity
When they march them off to prison in this land of liberty

Heed the threat and awesome power of the mighty Pentagon
Which is wasting precious millions on the toys of Washington

Don't forget the Draft Resisters and their silent, lonely plea
When they march them off to prison, they will go for you and me

Shame, disgrace and all dishonor, wrongly placed upon their heads
Will not rob them of the courage which betrays the innocent

--

TP
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0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 10:33 AM
Response to Original message
5. Another black eye for the military. "A family of One?"
"Initially, the investigation centered on 17 soldiers who refused to travel in the convoy, although now as many as two dozen could face disciplinary action that includes charges of disobeying a lawful order and conspiracy, officials said.

The unit arrived in Iraq in February for a yearlong mission. Family members of the soldiers have said their relatives refused to go on the October mission because their vehicles were poorly maintained and without necessary armor. Moreover, the military confirmed another complaint of the soldiers, that the Oct. 13th mission was longer than their normal convoy operations."

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NJ_Lib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 10:39 AM
Response to Original message
6. I'm going to be unpopular here....
Edited on Tue Nov-16-04 10:46 AM by NJ_Lib
I think I disagree...

What did they think they were signing up for? Disneyland? They are soldiers! In a war! You cannot have soldiers refusing to go on missions because they fear them unsafe... The whole military is based on discipline and taking orders.... If you refuse to take orders and decide yourself which missions are safe and which aren't, you risk the lives of all of the soldiers who are there fighting with you...

Now of course you would expect that your government would not send you to war without the tools you need, but most of these young guys signed up during the Chimply administration... They knew what they were getting themselves into...

(before I go down in flames, I just want to say this is the new and improved me... No heart, no compassion, no nothin'...
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jayfish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 10:43 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. Since It Seems To Be The Military Punishment De-jour...
for insubordination at the moment, they should be sent to Iraq. ...oh wait, they are already there.

Jay
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elsur Donating Member (62 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 11:26 AM
Response to Reply #6
10. I have to agree ....
Simply deciding not to follow orders wholesale because you think it might be dangerous will eventually get a ton of people killed.
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mog Donating Member (60 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #10
13. Not having the proper equipment can kill alot of people too.
Using contaminated fuel can also kill alot of people. I wonder who is going to be diciplined for that? Oh wait, nobody, because whatever happens, it is always the underling's fault.
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Rose Siding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 11:57 AM
Response to Reply #10
14. Keeping each other alive ranks high on a soldiers list of priorities
No "wholesale" refusal of orders has been reported.
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txindy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 11:33 AM
Response to Reply #6
11. They had been ordered to deliver contaminated fuel
IIRC, the fuel was to be used for helicopters. They were ordered to take the tainted fuel to another location after the first rightly refused to accept it because it wasn't usable. They begged their commanders not to send them on a useless mission -- without armor or armed escort, driving trucks that could not exceed 40 mph (when they weren't breaking down) -- and even had someone come and test the fuel. It was indeed found to be contaminated. They were ordered to deliver it, anyway. That's when they refused. The next day, IIRC, the fuel was delivered by another convoy (this time, I believe, with armed escort). Within several days, two helicopters crashed for no apparent reason. I don't know if it was the tainted fuel, but the timing is remarkable. Of course, the original tainted fuel originated somewhere, so the problem may be quite widespread.

Yes, they signed up. But not to be ordered to deliver fuel that might be used to fuel, and ultimately crash, our helicopters and kill the crews.
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YellowRubberDuckie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 01:20 PM
Response to Reply #6
16. I agree, NJ_Lib...
This is a volunteer army. They signed up. They knew what to expect.
Duckie
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AtTheEndOfTheDay Donating Member (454 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 11:14 AM
Response to Original message
9. I'd let them send me to Leavenworth
and improve my odds of surviving this stupid crap.
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dkofos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 11:37 AM
Response to Original message
12. Can they request a dishonorable discharge and just go home??
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