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maddezmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 12:21 PM
Original message
AP Photographer Flees Fallujah
BAGHDAD, Iraq - In the weeks before the crushing military assault on his hometown, Bilal Hussein sent his parents and brother away from Fallujah to stay with relatives.


AP Photo



The 33-year-old Associated Press photographer stayed behind to capture insider images during the siege of the former insurgent stronghold.


"Everyone in Fallujah knew it was coming. I had been taking pictures for days," he said. "I thought I could go on doing it."


In the hours and days that followed, heavy bombing raids and thunderous artillery shelling turned Hussein's northern Jolan neighborhood into a zone of rubble and death. The walls of his house were pockmarked by coalition fire.


"Destruction was everywhere. I saw people lying dead in the streets, wounded were bleeding and there was no one to come and help them. Even the civilians who stayed in Fallujah were too afraid to go out," he said.

more: http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20041...
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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 12:29 PM
Response to Original message
1. Make sure to click on the photo and vote it up.
Edited on Sun Nov-14-04 12:33 PM by Bleachers7
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maddezmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 12:37 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. and rate the story
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krkaufman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 01:02 PM
Response to Reply #1
10. Won't it be interesting...
... when we find out that the government has tapped into the Yahoo database, and has used our article/photo voting patterns to profile us?
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neohippie Donating Member (410 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 12:29 PM
Response to Original message
2. I support our troops but this kind of story makes it really hard
Edited on Sun Nov-14-04 12:32 PM by neohippie
It's really hard to continue to support our troops with all of this going on. When I read statements like this coming from an AP photographer.

"I decided to swim ... but I changed my mind after seeing U.S. helicopters firing on and killing people who tried to cross the river."


He watched horrified as a family of five was shot dead as they tried to cross. Then, he "helped bury a man by the river bank, with my own hands."


"I kept walking along the river for two hours and I could still see some U.S. snipers ready to shoot anyone who might swim. I quit the idea of crossing the river and walked for about five hours through orchards."


Did you know that even hunters in Florida are prohibitted from shooting swimming deer?

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Mabus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 12:40 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. what tears me up
is that both my partner and I have nephews over there. It really hurts when I know they don't want to be there and they don't want to participate in this.
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pokercat999 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 05:53 AM
Response to Reply #5
45. Hmmmm
Maybe a campaign should be started to hide and support AWOL/DESERTERS kinda like the underground railroad before the American civil war.

Any ideas how something like that might get started? Would a soldier relief fund based in Canada or Mexico be legal? Could such a fund be legal in the US? Wouldn't it be sweet justice to have a tax exempt fund designed to help escaping US troops hide in Canada, waiting for the next Democratic President to pardon them (like President Carter in 75)?

Anybody got any ideas?
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Mabus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 11:07 AM
Response to Reply #45
48. I don't know
I do know I got a phone call this morning from a friend whose sister recommended getting their nephew a passport. He's 11. They've got relatives in Czech they are thinking of sending him to stay with them in a couple of years.

During Viet Nam when my brothers were getting old enough to be drafted my dad talked to relatives in Wyoming. The plan was to take my brothers to the Wind River reservation and hide out with relatives. The other option was to let my uncle take them with him in Montana/Idaho.

Yes, it would be sweet, bittersweet, to fund something to help keep a generation alive.
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TrustingDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. I no longer support the Oops, either.
What kind of soulless freaks would be a part of something like this - killing families trying to escape, cutting off supplies to the people of Fallujah?

I still support individuals, tho. I wish the best for family members of people here that are sent into this horrific caldron, but as a whole, I think they're getting just as disgusting as their commander in chief.
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NorthernSpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #6
15. I don't approve of participating in wars of aggression
That's my stand and I'm sticking to it. People can whine about it about from now til doomsday, but all the propaganda in the world will never make wrong right. I'm not grateful for the strafing of a bunch of strangers who never did me harm, and that's that.
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NEOBuckeye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #15
24. Oh, it's okay, just so long as we're the agressors.
So many Americans hold that view. But you know, all those same people would be absolutely fighting mad if the day came that we had Chinese, European or Russian troops marching up and down our Main Streets, blowing up our towns, and sniping off people who so dared try and swim across one of our polluted rivers to try and escape the madness.

But I guess it's like the saying of the Bush times: "Do unto others, before they do unto you."
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Delphinus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 04:06 PM
Response to Reply #24
29. This is what I've been saying from the beginning!
If we were invaded by a foreign country, we would be out there on the streets defending our country. I don't see that the insurgents in Iraq are doing anything other than that.

And I can't believe we are killing people trying to escape. When is this going to stop? What's it going to take to stop this carnage?
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ilovenicepeople Donating Member (883 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 02:09 AM
Response to Reply #29
55. Whats it going to take to stop this carnage?
Stop calling them "insurgents" for starters. :hi:
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VegasWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 07:24 PM
Response to Reply #15
35. Don't the crucifixes hanging on the tank turrets make it okay? n/t
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saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 04:10 PM
Response to Reply #6
30. This is the view of the heros in Europe



Ya I know screw the Europeans---neocon talk
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NEOBuckeye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #2
22. Like Vietnam all over again...
When will we ever learn?
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Zerex71 Donating Member (692 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #2
50. There's no law saying we have to "support the troops"...
...which is just another one of those vague asterisk-marked catchphrases like "moral values" (as WE define it, not you blue-staters). I "support the troops" but only as agents of peacekeeping and defense, but for the past two decades, all we've ever been is offensive and brutal, so for all I care, screw the troops. And for every last one of those high-school dropout, can't-get-a-real-job-in-the-real-world types, I hope they voted for BushCo and that he prolongs their stay indefinitely.

I'm Zerex71 and I approve of this message.
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UpInArms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 12:33 PM
Response to Original message
3. dear god, please make it stop
signed,

UpInArms

from your link:

"I decided to swim ... but I changed my mind after seeing U.S. helicopters firing on and killing people who tried to cross the river."

He watched horrified as a family of five was shot dead as they tried to cross. Then, he "helped bury a man by the river bank, with my own hands."

"I kept walking along the river for two hours and I could still see some U.S. snipers ready to shoot anyone who might swim. I quit the idea of crossing the river and walked for about five hours through orchards."
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mcg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 12:47 PM
Response to Original message
7. This is genocide. Rated and emailed it.
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The Sad Little Pony Donating Member (206 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 11:07 PM
Response to Reply #7
41. "Rated and Email it"
Edited on Sun Nov-14-04 11:07 PM by The Sad Little Pony
Wow.

That post really sume up the problem:

"This is genocide. Rated and emailed it."


I always thought that "genocide" was something that required a bit more of a reaction, than that.

I wonder if Hitler could have been stopped with a sour Yahoo rating?

What's the story?

Lack of moral courage, or lack of belief in one's own inflated rhetoric?
I can't decide.


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mcg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 10:52 AM
Response to Reply #41
46. I don't condone this genocide, do you?

"This is genocide."

What can I even say about it? There are no words.

You think I don't have an emotional reaction to this genocide?

This is not inflated rhetoric, shooting families that are trying to swim to safety is genocide, just as killing millions of people in southeast asia was genocide.

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The Sad Little Pony Donating Member (206 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #46
49. It's just a strange..
...world in which we live.

Genocide.

How does one respond to Genocide?

Apparently with Emails and Yahoo ratings.
What a world.
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mcg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 03:43 PM
Response to Reply #49
51. At least I'm trying to do something about it.

The purpose of the emails and ratings is to make this more visible.

What are you doing about it? How do you feel about it?
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The Sad Little Pony Donating Member (206 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 04:07 PM
Response to Reply #51
52. I believe that it's a horror.
I believe that it's awful.

I do NOT believe that it is "genocide".
I believe that it is an awful, bloody war, with too many civilians being killed.
But I don't think it meets the definition of "genocide":

"the deliberate and systematic destruction of a racial, political, or cultural group"

If I did, I would enthusiastically recommend armed rebellion.

People toss the term about too freely.



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colonel odis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 01:01 PM
Response to Original message
8. i understand that everyone with a friend or relative there is worried. and
i hope our troops make it home safe and soon.

but when i read about this, abu-graib (sp?), journalists being shot indiscriminately, and the spineless abuses of superior firepower, i can no longer in good conscience support my country or its military. it doesn't share my values; therefore, i can't share my support.

i'm not to the point where i'm for the insurgents -- yet. many more stories like this or many more revelations that this was one big land grab for oil, and my allegiance may change. sorry, but i can't back the bad guys, even if i'm a citizen of those bad guys' country.

if china decided our leader was a threat to world peace because he's crazy and possesses weapons of mass destruction and launched a pre-emptive strike, i'd be fighting the invaders tooth and nail. if after invading, the chinese installed a puppet and left our country a cesspool, with stories leaking out each day about atrocities, i'd probably become a suicide bomber and see how many i could take out.

call me whatever you want, but i'm sick of my country acting this way. i may be a citizen of america, but i'm a member of the human race. and that's more important than standing in lockstep with a pissant 200 year old country that's thought for a long time it's better than everyone else.
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HysteryDiagnosis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 06:00 PM
Response to Reply #8
33. i hope our troops make it home safe and soon.
come home safe... but their minds will be scarred for life after playing a part in georges nightmare.
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peacetalksforall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 01:01 PM
Response to Original message
9. I still say we must blame the brass and ourselves before we blame
these kids - you know that they know better, but it's the brainwashing and the sense of duty. I want to blame myself, but I don't know how to pinpoint it - I 'saw' our purpose for going there - it wasn't hard to see it - it was perfectly transparent. Most in our country preferred to pretend that these kids were going there to defend us, but we knew it was for corporate reasons - we knew it was for the earth resources and the foothold on the resources of the region, plus the protection of Israel and the advancement of agenda of the right wing of Israel. The weapons companies are profiting and the evangelicals are happy with the representative of the corporattions and they've met their political agenda, for now.

But..

I studied. I analyzed. I wrote so many letters. I marched. I thought I was doing a good job in educating people I got to talk to.

I failed. I needed to do more - the blood there is my fault.

Eisenhower's warning ignored.

The ultimate in history's worst massacre. Maybe not in numbers, but in fore-knowledge and against all principles. Our leaders threw away their integrity. We let our leaders win and they were not right.

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krkaufman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 01:13 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. "... before we blame these kids"
Yes, agreed. And I daresay we don't have ALL the facts.
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wndycty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 01:07 PM
Response to Original message
11. At what point do we become as bad as Sadam?
Also how the hell is shooting people swimming either delivering democracy to Iraq or protecting us from terrorism?

-snip-
"U.S. soldiers began to open fire on the houses, so I decided that it was very dangerous to stay in my house," he said.

Hussein said he panicked, seizing on a plan to escape across the Euphrates River, which flows on the western side of the city

"I wasn't really thinking," he said. "Suddenly, I just had to get out. I didn't think there was any other choice."

In the rush, Hussein left behind his camera lens and a satellite telephone for transmitting his images. His lens, marked with the distinctive AP logo, was discovered two days later by U.S. Marines next to a dead man's body in a house in Jolan.

AP colleagues in the Baghdad bureau, who by then had not heard from Hussein in 48 hours, became even more worried.

Hussein moved from house to house dodging gunfire and reached the river.

"I decided to swim ... but I changed my mind after seeing U.S. helicopters firing on and killing people who tried to cross the river."

He watched horrified as a family of five was shot dead as they tried to cross. Then, he "helped bury a man by the river bank, with my own hands."

"I kept walking along the river for two hours and I could still see some U.S. snipers ready to shoot anyone who might swim. I quit the idea of crossing the river and walked for about five hours through orchards."
-snip-
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movonne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #11
23. It is worse than Sadam's regime..
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bluedeminredstate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 01:19 PM
Response to Original message
13. NOT IN MY NAME!
I want to weep. Four more years of this - I just can't bear the thought.
:cry:
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meganmonkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 02:38 PM
Response to Reply #13
27. I AM weeping
I just tried to tell my SO about this - he was wondering why I was mumbling 'Holy Shit' over and over again, and when I tried to say it out loud I just lost it.
:cry: :scared: :cry:

He reminded me that there is nothing wrong with crying about it, in fact, NOT to cry about is f*cked up. He's right.

So what the hell is wrong with the rest of this god forsaken country?
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wndycty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. Kick
:kick:
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Mira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 07:58 PM
Response to Reply #27
37. they chose not to know, and let Rush read the paper for them
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lindashaw Donating Member (921 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 01:21 PM
Response to Original message
14. All this denial...where will it end? Americans seem not to learn.
I'm afraid we will have to suffer what we did in Vietnam before the people finally say, "Enough." What is happening is so unreal, so illogical, I can't believe it. I'm sick in my heart.
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Malva Zebrina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 01:25 PM
Response to Original message
16. when people stop spouting the fallcious meme to "support the troops"
they will have more freedom to examine exactly what it is they feel about the troops and what it is exactly they want for the troops. As it stands now, to support the troops, means to support the mission.

Stop it already with the Bush propagandist "support the troops" deal that has shackled you to Bush imposed guilt, and examine it in all of it's neo con implications and falsity.
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llmart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 10:19 PM
Response to Reply #16
40. Amen!
Yeah, it's so easy to say "support the troops" or slap a stupid yellow ribbon on the back of your SUV and go on about your daily lives because you're too lazy and ignorant to think independently.

I do not want this done in my name and with my tax dollars. I'm embarrassed to be an American these days.
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Zerex71 Donating Member (692 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 10:36 PM
Response to Reply #40
53. It's amazing how much you and I think alike. :)
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flordehinojos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 01:28 PM
Response to Original message
17. poppy bush is so proud of his son, of his son's glorification of war,
of the war profiteering filling their coffers, of the seed that he planted in his son that war is to be glorified, and that peacetime is simply just .... unacceptable, to say the least.

the son might be rotten fruit ... the father is the rotten tree which produced the fruit.
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alexisfree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 01:33 PM
Response to Original message
18. What a loser running like a bitch......
Everyone excuse my words but I am pissed did you read about the part:

"I decided to swim ... but I changed my mind after seeing U.S. helicopters firing on and killing people who tried to cross the river.He watched horrified as a family of five was shot dead as they tried to cross. Then, he "helped bury a man by the river bank, with my own hands.I kept walking along the river for two hours and I could still see some U.S. snipers ready to shoot anyone who might swim. I quit the idea of crossing the river and walked for about five hours through orchards.
He met a peasant family, who gave him refuge in their house for two days. Hussein knew a driver in the region and sent a message to another AP colleague, Ali Ahmed, in nearby Ramadi."

This is my response in the yahoo forum...
I though all your reporters were in bed fucking Bush.....You praise him so much for every piece of shit he does....What happen chicken shit couldn't stand to watch the truth...Fucking loser you and the rest of the media are pieces of shit...Thanks to Dish I can get other countries news. Be thankful you made it out, not like the Innocent people who are being killed for oil.
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wndycty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 01:37 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. Huh
. . .do you have any record of Hussein supporting Bush or this war?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
wndycty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. LOL Are you calling me a Republican. . .
. . .I would love to know your basis for that.
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muse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 02:02 PM
Response to Original message
25. Thanks for posting this - I've passed it on
Most people have no idea what is really happening in Fallujah. I make an effort to read blogs - Baghdad Burning is one - but, most people buy into the mainstream media's view of the war. The account of the snipers picking off people as the tried to escape crossing the river was sad.
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Ima Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. voted 4.62
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maddezmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 05:33 PM
Response to Reply #26
31. Avg Rating: 4.49, 188 votes - Your Rating: 5
:kick:
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 05:43 PM
Response to Original message
32. 4.49 with 193 votes.
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MileHiStealth Donating Member (277 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 07:15 PM
Response to Original message
34. Wonder if this AP story will make the MSM
Iraq can't survive 4 more years of this asshole, and
neither can we ...

http://web.greens.org/c/cobb/supporters.cgi?function=do...



"I decided to swim ... but I changed my mind after seeing U.S. helicopters firing on and killing people who tried to cross the river."
He watched horrified as a family of five was shot dead as they tried to cross. Then, he "helped bury a man by the river bank, with my own hands."

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maddezmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 12:05 AM
Response to Reply #34
42. haven't seen it yet
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Zorra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 07:27 PM
Response to Original message
36. Bu$h is Hitler. He is committing genocide on the Iraqi people. n/t
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LibertyorDeath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 09:00 PM
Response to Original message
38. Sickening
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DulceDecorum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 09:24 PM
Response to Original message
39. Elric: As I look at you, Ambasador Mollari,
I see a great hand reaching out of the stars.
And I hear sounds; the sounds of billions of people calling out your name.

Ambassador Londo Mollari: My followers?

Elric: Your victims.
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okieinpain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 01:08 AM
Response to Original message
43. oh no, what a lie. that picture has happy people in it. this must
be one of those michael moore lies.
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okieinpain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 01:15 AM
Response to Original message
44. nah, this story is crap. ask the 60 million that voted for georgie
everybody knows we only shot bad guys. trying to cross the river, bad guy. if a soldier shoots at you and you run bad guy. hey it's like the helicopter gunner in full metal jacket. Q:"how can you tell they are the enemy". A:"if you shoot at them, and they run. that's a bad guy"

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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 10:56 AM
Response to Original message
47. His photo....


These photographers in Iraq have been so brave doing what they do to get the real story of the US massacre out!
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partisan to truth Donating Member (158 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 01:16 AM
Response to Original message
54. 4.27 (481 votes)
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annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 04:39 AM
Response to Original message
56. ..but...but.....there ARE no civilians there, right?
All the civilians left before the attack, right? That's what the generals said...

So those "pockets of resistance" are just the last living Fallujans.

God help us.........
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