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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 11:19 AM
Original message
Ohio voters tell of Election Day troubles at hearing
Sunday, November 14, 2004
Reginald Fields
Plain Dealer Bureau
Columbus

Tales of waiting more than five hours to vote, voter intimidation, under-trained polling-station workers and too few or broken voting machines largely in urban or heavily minority areas were retold Saturday at a public hearing organized by voter-rights groups.

For three hours, burdened voters, one after another, offered sworn testimony about Election Day voter suppression and irregularities that they believe are threatening democracy.

The hearing, sponsored by the Election Protection Coalition, was to collect testimony of voting troubles that might be used to seek legislative changes to Ohio's election process.

The organizers chose Ohio because it was a swing state in the presidential election as well as the site of numerous claims of election fraud and voter disenfranchisement

more
http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/index.ssf?/ba...
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kk897 Donating Member (829 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 11:29 AM
Response to Original message
1. I was there and testified
Hi--please excuse me if this isn't protocol, but I posted about this on another thread and thought people might be interested in seeing a first hand account, so I'll copy it here.

Hi all--I was at the hearing, or the "hearing" as the Cincinnati Enquirer styled it. Don't you think the quote marks make it look like we were just calling it a hearing or that it wasn't really a hearing?... sad.

Anyway, it went on for hours. Lots of people came forward to tell their election stories, including poll judges, workers, people who had volunteered for various voter protection organizations, and folks who stood on line.

Some of the stories were just awful. For instance, one woman came forward to testify on behalf of her bereaved friend. This woman's husband DIED while she waited in line for three hours to vote. In another story, a voter spoke to a poll worker about some procedural issue, and the woman said, "Well, we don't want Muslims voting." A volunteer told of a senior who had been denied an absentee ballot because he hadn't been in the hospital long enough, so he showed up at the polling place on a stretcher with an IV hooked up. Many, many stories concentrated on the length of the lines, including Kenyon College students, who waited for 10 to 12 hours and in fact ended up voting on the 3rd since it went on so long. Lots of poll workers mentioned that they saw people giving up and leaving before voting. The stories went on and on.

There were some media there. I, myself, for some reason, was pulled away by a 10TV (CBS affiliate in Columbus) reporter who interviewed me. I don't think I gave a good interview because I was quite nervous, and besides, they didn't end up using it, but at least the station covered it. There have been articles in the Columbus Dispatch, the LA Times, if you can believe it, and the Cleveland Plain Dealer (that I've found so far this morning). After I gave my testimony, which was about a misdirected memo I found that may show that the Republicans used the practice of "redlining" for challenging voters in the 23rd district, which I think is in Cuyhoga County (that info was really hard to find, actually), a reporter from I really think he said the New York Times asked if he could email me for further information. I was so exhausted at that point from nerves that I may not have heard the newspaper right, but I did hear him say something like he was working for Amy Goodman, who might be interested in it. Sorry to be so vague on this point.

Oh yeah, about an hour into it, they announced that there were lots of tow trucks towing people from around the church where the meeting was held, which seemed to me like a petty little tactic from the city to try to keep people from testifying or from observing. About 20 people left at that point, but I don't know if they came back or not.

I think there was a report at least about the meeting, if not from the meeting, on The Laura Flanders Show on Air America Radio.

That was my experience... if you have any questions about it, I'll try to answer them.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 11:31 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Thanks so much for posting kk897
Edited on Sun Nov-14-04 11:34 AM by seemslikeadream
Please keep us informed. Was there any mention of the Homeland Security, FBI denial of issuing a terrorist threat?

Yes it seems Amy Goodman from Democracy Now is on the story.
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kk897 Donating Member (829 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 12:42 PM
Response to Reply #2
15. Homeland Security/FBI issue
Hi--no, actually, I don't recall this specifically being brought up in testimony. I know the case you're referring to, in Warren County, which is nearer to Cincinnati than Columbus. Absolutely terrible.

Say, I just got an email from someone else who was there who reminded me of some other REALLY IMPORTANT testimony in terms of possible fraud. I've asked if I can post it here, but I'll summarize now:

--In Cincy, possibly more than 10K people who tried to registered were not

--Woman was granted access to signature rolls in Pickaway County, where clerks were rude. She had just started to look at them when they were snatched away, on the order of Blackwell. She noticed first, though, that THERE WERE NO SIGNATURES in the signature rolls.

--Woman reported seeing absentee ballots put aside because of not having birthdate on the outside of the envelope, then watched about 50 of them thrown away
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AquarianM Donating Member (6 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-17-04 10:21 AM
Response to Reply #2
83. Back Box voting caught election officials red handed-Volusia on lockdown
Edited on Wed Nov-17-04 10:26 AM by AquarianM
TUESDAY NOV 16 2004: Volusia County on lockdown

County election records just got put on lockdown

Dueling lawyers, election officials gnashing teeth, Votergate.tv film crew catching it all.

Here’s what happened so far:

Friday Black Box Voting investigators Andy Stephenson and Kathleen Wynne popped in to ask for some records. They were rebuffed by an elections official named Denise. Bev Harris called on the cell phone from investigations in downstate Florida, and told Volusia County Elections Supervisor Deanie Lowe that Black Box Voting would be in to pick up the Nov. 2 Freedom of Information request, or would file for a hand recount. "No, Bev, please don’t do that!" Lowe exclaimed. But this is the way it has to be, folks. Black Box Voting didn’t back down.

Monday Bev, Andy and Kathleen came in with a film crew and asked for the FOIA request. Deanie Lowe gave it over with a smile, but Harris noticed that one item, the polling place tapes, were not copies of the real ones, but instead were new printouts, done on Nov. 15, and not signed by anyone.

Harris asked to see the real ones, and they said for "privacy" reasons they can’t make copies of the signed ones. She insisted on at least viewing them (although refusing to give copies of the signatures is not legally defensible, according to Berkeley elections attorney, Lowell Finley). They said the real ones were in the County Elections warehouse. It was quittin’ time and an arrangment was made to come back this morning to review them.

Lana Hires, a Volusia County employee who gained some notoriety in an election 2000 Diebold memo, where she asked for an explanation of minus 16,022 votes for Gore, so she wouldn’t have to stand there "looking dumb" when the auditor came in, was particularly unhappy about seeing the Black Box Voting investigators in the office. She vigorously shook her head when Deanie Lowe suggested going to the warehouse.

Kathleen Wynne and Bev Harris showed up at the warehouse at 8:15 Tuesday morning, Nov. 16. There was Lana Hires looking especially gruff, yet surprised. She ordered them out. Well, they couldn’t see why because there she was, with a couple other people, handling the original poll tapes. You know, the ones with the signatures on them. Harris and Wynne stepped out and Volusia County officials promptly shut the door.

Full story at blackboxvoting.org
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-17-04 11:10 AM
Response to Reply #83
84. Thanks AquarianM
for posting this.


:hi:

I live quite close to a wind farm, we really love it!
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nothingshocksmeanymore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. Thanks...I'm nominating this post so it will go on the front page
Welcome to DU
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liberalnurse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 05:29 PM
Response to Reply #3
37. There are more stories here in the "Wake-Up Ohio " newsletter...
Go down to the newsletter post ......after the intial thread introduction....


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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Ripley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. Bexley huh?
You must be rich. I used to live in Grandview.
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kk897 Donating Member (829 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 12:29 PM
Response to Reply #4
14. Grandview, huh?
Funny, my impression is that Grandview residents are rich.

Actually, I live in South Bexley, which is like the slums of Bexley. It's nice, but there is a great divide called Main Street, and the other side is where the real rich folks live.

BTW, even S. Bexley is pretty upper middle class, and at our polling place (where I volunteered for MoveOn, but that's another story) there were very long lines at times, an hour or more. However, when I voted, mid-day, it was only about a half-hour.
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ohtransplant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #14
29. I worked the polls in Bexley for Kerry
at Jeffry mansion.

The highlights were some wives giving us :thumbsup: behind their husbands' backs after the husbands had walked past growling at us.

The lowlights were some old money seniors who yelled that the were insulted by our presence and one who likened us to UBL.

Welcome to DU! This is a great post!
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kk897 Donating Member (829 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 05:24 PM
Response to Reply #29
36. Bexley polls
Hi ohtransplant--I worked the polls at Montrose Elementary School for MoveOn. Things were really quiet over there, with people just waiting politely. There was one young woman who came in with a "F*ck Bush" hat who got all upset because they didn't want her to wear it in the polling place, but other than that, I didn't see anything. (She was so cute in her righteous indignation). I heard that there was a senior who passed out and was taken care of by the school nurse. Oh, actually, the school asked us to leave the grounds at one point because they'd "gotten complaints" that it made the school look partisan. The police asked us to move our sign. But again, very polite. This is a good place to live, I think. We just moved here about a year ago from Merion Village, if you know where that is.

THANK YOU EVERYONE FOR MAKING A NEW DU'ER FEEL WELCOME! I'm kinda new to this whole public forum thing, too, so bear with me if I do some stupid newbie things.
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kitchen girl Donating Member (182 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 07:44 PM
Response to Reply #36
44. Hey, kk897!
Fancy meeting you here! We wondered how everything went for you guys at Montrose and hoped you were able to track down the "tent". Who am I? Check the giveaway at the bottom with my "old" screen name. Small world, ain't it? :D

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kk897 Donating Member (829 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 07:00 AM
Response to Reply #44
47. KITCHEN GIRL!
Girlish SHRIEK of JOY at seeing friend!!! Yep, we tracked down the tent, and it was most welcome on that rainy election day. Talk to you in real life, soon, I assume!
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kitchen girl Donating Member (182 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #47
72. Hopefully soon...
and probably over Mexican food! I'm so glad you're attending these hearings. Wanted to go Saturday, but with it being in between back-to-back nights at Dick's Den, I was too tuckered out. :hangover:
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Pirate Smile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 11:43 AM
Response to Reply #1
5. Thanks. I've been wanting to know what happened but there didn't
seem to be much coverage.
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jdj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 11:47 AM
Response to Reply #1
7. Where can we get a video? I want one
or at least a transcript.

the article says a video or transcript is available to anyone who wants one, but it doesn't give an address. It didn't specify just OH residents.
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jdj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 11:48 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. here's the paragraph were it says we can get a video from someone
named Kaplan:

"Both a written and video report on the hearing will be provided to anyone who wants a copy, especially state lawmakers who are considering mandating Election Day changes, Kaplan said."

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kk897 Donating Member (829 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 07:26 PM
Response to Reply #8
43. I FOUND IT!! Audio of the hearing
Hi all--I found a site where you can find audio of the Columbus Nov 12 hearing:

http://www.goxray.com/
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errorbells Donating Member (185 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #1
9. There were some media there....
There was some media at TSU when there were hundreds of people trying to stop the redistricting here in Texas.
Discussions went on all day. Q & A....etc

Very little showed on the local channels...How about there?

I listened to part of a woman's story on "The Laura Flanders Show"
it was heartbreaking ...what folks need to understand is that this can happen to any party....

We are in serious trouble and the media is playing it down...

I personally am not hearing anything about it.

BTW, THANK YOU!

Iraq and middle east seem to be taking up media's time.
stories of horror ... grabbers of headlines....

$$$$$
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Eloriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. The media's job is to protect and promote the status quo,
TPTB, the "official story" and "official mythology."

Once upon a time it was different, a little anyway, but not any longer.

Hey, welcome to DU! We've got so many great new DUers in the last week or so. I'm just thrilled.

:toast:
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kk897 Donating Member (829 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #9
20. Local coverage
I was happy to get any local coverage. I was interviewed for the CBS affiliate, but when they ran the extremely short story they used another woman's interview (quite frankly, she was better than I could hope to be). Still they kind of made it out to be a bunch of cranky people complaining about long lines. At least they didn't put the "conspiracy theory" spin on it. Also, the Columbus Dispatch did a fairly even-handed story.
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newyawker99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 02:24 PM
Response to Reply #9
25. Hi errorbells!!
Welcome to DU!! :toast:
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Nordic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #1
10. thanks for telling us this
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jean Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 12:05 PM
Response to Reply #1
11. Welcome to DU - thanks for sharing your eye witness account! 'Hearing'
implies it was a 'so-called' hearing, a wannabe hearing, but wasn't a real hearing, so don't pay attention to it.

Announcing cars were being towed during the hearing was, in itself, a suppressive and intimidating tactic. If you're there testifying because you believe fraud, suppression or intimidation occurred on Election Day, having cops peruse your vehicle, license and call up your motor vehicle info would be VERY unsettling.

Plus it's a scare tactic: There was a claim 'terrorists' had targeted certain areas of Ohio on Election Day - a person might wonder if the cops thought evil doers were at the 'hearing' and were checking the cars for this reason - - - Leave!!! Run away!!!

What is 'red-lining?' "Republicans used the practice of "redlining" for challenging voters in the 23rd district..."



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Eloriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. Red-lining is a term used previously by
mortgage lenders and bankers to "redline" certain parts of cities (hint: the black parts) and prevent people in those areas from getting loans -- presumably because they are "bad credit risks." It's highly illegal now, of course, but is still done.

Minorities are easy targets for fun and games on election day (by the GOP) because they are geographically clustered. Great way to knock out primarily Dem votes before they happen. It's called "vote suppression," and the Repugs are masters of it.
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kk897 Donating Member (829 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #13
18. Redlining
Yes, the only reason I knew about the term was because I wrote an article for the Ohio Civil Rights Commission newsletter about it earlier this year. Unfortunately, the practice is still being carried out here in Ohio.
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kk897 Donating Member (829 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 12:59 PM
Response to Reply #1
21. More testimony
OK, I got permission from my email compatriot to post his/her memory of some of the other testimony. I've got to leave now, but when I come back later this afternoon, I'll try to get more information and a link to the video (I have a feeling it will be a while before posted, but you might check with indyvoter.org from time to time, which is where I think it might show up. Since the hearing was hours and hours, though... not sure how they'd post it and if they needed to stream it, not sure they'd have the server power.)

"Other very significant testimony was:

- from a young man from the Cincinnati area who reported that perhaps tens of thousands of new voters in the area were not registered because their applications were falsely disqualified.

-a woman went to the Pickaway County Board of Elections and ask that her right as a citizen be granted to look at the registration and voting records. The clerk literally threw the books down in front of her and then within minutes they were taken from her while telling her it was by order of the Ohio Attorney general, Kenneth Blackwell.

-a woman witnessed absentee ballots being discarded because they did not contain the voters date of birth, even though the law states that date of birth is not required. She counted (I believe 50) such ballots being discarded even though she was told that she was "not allowed" to count anything."
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newyawker99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 02:21 PM
Response to Reply #1
24. Hi kk897!!
Welcome to DU!! :toast:
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intheflow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 04:06 PM
Response to Reply #1
28. Thank you for posting this.
The first hand testimony is so important to hear.

And welcome to DU, kk897. You're a welcome addition! :thumbsup:
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robbedvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 05:15 PM
Response to Reply #1
35. Thanks. For being there and here. Powerful.
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Az_lefty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #1
61. Thanks and welcome to DU.
:toast:
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Eagle1 Donating Member (11 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 04:21 PM
Response to Reply #1
68. Recount
My understanding is that the meeting was 3 hours. Given the situation I don't see how more then a hundred or so people could have testified in that short period of time. All in all I didn't see even one allegation from anyone claiming he/she was nor permitted to vote.

I seriously believe we are doing great damage to our future chances of being elected for anything by always crying fraud when we lose. Does anyone know if even one major news source or a highly placed Democrat is even touching this? Even MSNBC has decided to leave it alone and they seemed to be our first best chance to bring national attention to this.
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kk897 Donating Member (829 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 04:42 PM
Response to Reply #68
69. Answer to Eagle1
The hearing lasted more than three hours (it must have been at least four, since I got there at 1 and left around 4:30 and it was still going on strong). There were people who testified who chose not to testify on camera. They set up stations in the basement to handle the overflow. They were all under oath.

As far as people "not being permitted" to vote... disenfranchisement took more insidious and subtle forms. You can educate yourself on this issue, since there's a lot out there. And yes, if you count the Los Angeles Times as a major outlet, then yes the hearing got coverage. If you mean the whole fraud issue in general, there are many major outlets covering it; some are making it sound like we're crazy to suggest it, as Eagle1 seems to think. Whatever. You can just let other people secure your Constitutional right to vote, I guess. We'll fight for your rights, too. Just don't make us sound like wackos or crybabies while we're trying to do it! It's not just about this election. It's not even just about Democrats (there was a Green party person who discovered that her Cobb vote didn't get counted, since in her precinct, the count said there were NO votes for Cobb and that statewide there were only, like, 28 or so, when she personally knew more people than that had voted for Cobb).

As far as the number of people to testify, I'm not sure. A lot of people went over their three minute limit since the panel hearing testimony had questions. This is one of the reasons there's an additional hearing tonight.
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marieaey Donating Member (65 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 05:27 PM
Response to Reply #1
71. How Exhausting! Ohio Observer's needed! You can help too...............
Thank you for taking the time to share your story at the hearings. We will get our recount thanks to David Cobb and Michael Badnarik. http://www.votecobb.org / They need volunteers to observe, coordinate or host volunteers in Ohio.

best wishes marie
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 11:43 AM
Response to Original message
6. FIVE FREAKING HOURS!
that is totally unacceptable.
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kk897 Donating Member (829 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 12:47 PM
Response to Reply #6
19. Can you imagine?
Those Kenyon students, waiting TEN to TWELVE hours! They had two voting machines, one of which broke down within an hour. Thus about 1300 people, I believe it was, had to use the one machine. Oh, and it wasn't just students, but also the people from the surrounding community who were using the polling place.
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DeepModem Mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. Thanks, kk897! I have a particular interest in the Kenyon situation....
Were Kenyon students at the hearing, giving first-hand testimony? These young first-time voters, waiting in the rain up to 12 hours, even after the election was called for Bush -- being supported with food, encouragement and even toilet paper, by not only fellow students and profs, but the President of the College -- are, to me, poster children for the anti-democratic tactics of today's Republicans.
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kk897 Donating Member (829 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 04:55 PM
Response to Reply #22
30. Kenyon
Hi DeepModem Mom--Yes, there was a Kenyon student there testifying. He had collected the testimony of several others that he read. He made this point, and I'm paraphrasing: "We got a lot of media coverage because of the long lines, and people were saying how proud they were of us. Well, we want the country to know that we're not just proud, but we're also angered by what happened there."

Huh... just got contacted by someone contributing to The New Standard for an interview. Kind of blows my mind. I guess everyone *does* get five minutes...
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DeepModem Mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 05:00 PM
Response to Reply #30
32. Another big thank-you, kk897!
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LisaL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #19
23. Yes, I can imagine.
Edited on Sun Nov-14-04 02:11 PM by lizzy
I live in Franklin county and when I voted in 2000, there was absolutely no one in line. When I voted in 2004 I had to wait in a long line, in the rain. One wonders why that is-well, not really.
Most people are not going to wait in line for a long time because they have to work.
Thank you, Mr. Blackwell!
:nuke:
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idiosyncratic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 12:44 PM
Response to Original message
16. Welcome to DU and thanks for taking the time to tell your story.
:hi:
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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 12:44 PM
Response to Original message
17. If DEMS wont stand up against this- I'll work w/ groups that do...
...until somthing is done,my volunteer time & money goes towards election reform, one way or the other...

I cant see how any other issue is not moot until all of this is looked into...
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onedgeinak Donating Member (10 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 02:26 PM
Response to Original message
26. Ohio Voter
Thanks! Kerry signs outnumbered Bush signs @100 to 1 in Highland Square. Couldn't believe the results.
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scout123 Donating Member (15 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 02:41 PM
Response to Original message
27. MONDAY Hearing Reminder!!!
http://indyvoter.org/index.php --

Monday November 15, 6-9 PM,
Auditorium (Meeting Room A)
Courthouse, 373 S. High St.
Columbus, OH

Voters, poll workers, and poll watchers who experienced or observed election
irregularities or vote suppression on Election Day to come forward and
give their testimony.

Legislators, experts on voting rights, election protection, electoral reform, and election law will also present.

We will document and videotape the testimonies for use in a report
and a formal complaint to the Franklin County Board of Elections.

This is a public space to respond to the systemic undermining of our
democratic process and assess how to respond to racial disenfranchisement and suppression of democratic rights.

The coalition hopes to expose the systemic undermining of our democratic process that occurred leading up to and on Nov 2, and assess how to respond to racial disenfranchisement and suppression of democratic rights.

Testimony will be followed by a summary statement of patterns of voting rights violations emerging in the state of Ohio and a discussion of statewide reforms needed to address these issues.
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karlrschneider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 06:34 PM
Response to Reply #27
41. Hi, scout, welcome to DU! This some important info, and I'm fairly sure
you can't start a thread yet, hopefully you won't mind if I start one with what you have posted with credit of course. :D
:toast:
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kk897 Donating Member (829 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 03:26 PM
Response to Reply #27
63. REEEEEEEEEECOUNT!!!
I'm going to be there tonight because there will be a Green Party person there, and I'm hoping to get more info on the recount and how to help.

WOOOOO HOOOOO!
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0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 04:59 PM
Response to Original message
31. Interesting Testimony
"Harvey Wasserman of Bexley said he tried to vote absentee with the same home address he has used for 18 years but was told he couldn't because his absentee application had the wrong address.

"But the notice telling me I had the wrong address arrived at the right address," he said. "I wonder, how many of these absentee ballots were rejected for no good reason?"

Unfuckingbelievable!
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llmart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 05:08 PM
Response to Reply #31
33. My sister lives in Lakewood......
heavily Democratic (Dennis Kucinich's turf)and she never got her absentee ballot. When she kept pursuing it they tried to say they had no record of her though she has lived and voted in Lakewood for almost 20 years.

Lots of fishy stuff in Ohio. It definitely was a rigged election.
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DeepModem Mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 05:14 PM
Response to Reply #33
34. Please ask your sister to report this, if she hasn't already --
we need all the evidence we can get. It's looking more and more like Ohio's 2004 election was an undemocratic farce.
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kk897 Donating Member (829 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 05:58 PM
Response to Original message
38. Columbus Dispatch coverage of hearing
Here's from the Columbus Dispatch coverage:

Angry voters air complaints

Hundreds at hearing question process, suspect fraud

Sunday, November 14, 2004

Suzanne Hoholik and Jeb Phillips

THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH

An elderly man who was refused an absentee ballot left his hospital bed and showed up at a polling site with an IV still in his arm.

Another man had to convince four elections workers that he still lives in his Bexley house.

Broken voting machines, cars being towed from a Driving Park polling site, three- to five-hour waits and too few machines these were some of the stories shared by voters, poll workers and elections observers yesterday at a Near East Side church. Robert Fitrakis, a lawyer and political-science professor at Columbus State Community College, organized the hearing so attendees could air their election grievances then send the information to state officials.

It drew more than 200 people and ran hours longer than planned.

Most of the crowd favored Sen. John Kerry, with many wearing campaign stickers and buttons.

more
http://tinyurl.com/3zy3d

I'd add that the people running the hearing made it perfectly clear that it was a non-partisan effort. I don't remember seeing that many Kerry buttons on people's clothing (there were bumper stickers on cars surrounding the location).
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kk897 Donating Member (829 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 06:15 PM
Response to Reply #38
39. From another DU thread
Here's a link to another thread on this subject, with another first hand account:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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Kolesar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 06:23 PM
Response to Original message
40. Why are there not hearings in Cleveland, Youngstown, Dayton, etc? ... eom
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kk897 Donating Member (829 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 06:48 PM
Response to Reply #40
42. hearings elsewhere
Hi--people are working on hearings in other Ohio cities even as we speak. Part of the problem is that "Katherine" Blackwell has blocked all sorts of efforts to examine the poll records, so it's becoming tougher to gather hard data. But we're still working on it! And certainly, these hearings could take testimony about people's personal experiences on voting day.
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John in Cincy Donating Member (21 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 11:14 PM
Response to Reply #40
74. Cleveland Hearings
There *are* Cleveland hearings scheduled. Received email today. There's another Saturday but don't yet have details.

--John, CASE Ohio

-----
Did You Have Problems Voting

Or

Know of Someone Who Did?

We Need To Hear From You and Them

Calling All: Poll Workers, Registered Voters, Newly Registered Voters, Lawyers, Law Students, Persons who voted a provisional ballot, Grassroots Organizers, Pastors, Members, Voter Registration Persons, Precinct Committeepersons, Activists, Union Representatives, Concerned Citizens & Elected Officials.


We are asking for individuals or organizations that have any information about voting irregularities, racial disenfranchisement, voter suppression, or denial of their constitutional democratic voting rights to come forward and give live testimony which will be documented and videotaped.

Wednesday, November 17th 2004

6:00 p.m. - 9:00 p.m.

(Laborer˙s Local 310 Hall (Down Stairs)

3250 Euclid Avenue, Cleveland, Ohio 44115

Moderators to include: Gregory T. Moore, Executive Director NAACP National Voter Fund/Election Protection, Marcia L. McCoy, Political Director Cleveland AFL-CIO, Mary Hills, National Director Coalition of Union Women & President National Council of Negro Women, Virginia Robinson, P.A.C.E.

This event is free and open to the community

Free Parking and Food

Sponsored By: NAACP NVF, Election Protection, Cleveland AFL-CIO Federation of Labor, National Council of Negro Women WRS, Black Women˙s PAC Educational Committee, Voice of the Electors, Southern Christian Leadership Council, Greater Cleveland Voter Registration Coalition.

For More Information Please Call:

Mary (216) 440-232-1885 or Marcia (216) 374-0913
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 11:25 PM
Response to Reply #74
75. Thanks John in Cincy
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John in Cincy Donating Member (21 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 11:28 PM
Response to Reply #75
76. Your welcome... (eom)
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 11:43 PM
Response to Reply #76
78. here too!
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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 08:00 PM
Response to Original message
45. Next time get the friggin challengers' names and addresses ...
... and let everybody in the line know who they are.
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berner59 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 10:35 PM
Response to Reply #45
46. Were Kerry's people there???
They need to be listening to this testimony though at least...
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kk897 Donating Member (829 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 07:22 AM
Response to Reply #46
48. Kerry's people
There were no Kerry people there in an official capacity, and I have no idea if they were observing the hearings or not. There was a representative of Dennis Kucinich, who is a Congressman as well as former candidate, though. Dennis is so great. I voted for him in the primaries. Annnywayyy... I agree that he should see the testimony.

At the hearing people expressed a feeling of being let down by him. I think people were counting (no pun intended) on him to champion the cause in some way. I understand that it would seem self-serving on his part, but when he said "help is on the way," I think voters likely to be disenfranchised took him at his word.

I'm crying as I'm thinking about the 62-year-old Black woman who voted for the first time, praying that help was on the way. I'm crying as I'm thinking about the guy who came out from the hospital, IV in arm, hoping that help was on the way. I'm crying as I'm thinking about the young first time voter single mom who stood in the rain for two hours with her three year old, for God's sake, believing that help was on the way. Will these people ever vote again? Will they ever believe a leader who says that help is on the way? Will they ever come together again to effect change?

It's too much. People wonder why we don't just give up the count effort... People say we're just being crybabies like in 2000. People suggest that we're not being graceful losers. I suggest these people are not people of color or people who have ever felt the sting of a metaphorical slap in the face when trying to get something done. These people are comfortable in their privledge. They've never been marginalized.

If I have to suffer through being called a tin foil hat conspiracy theorist, I'll wear the mantle proudly. Yes, it was a conspiracy. How else is systematic disenfranchisement accomplished? There must be accountability, this time. I can't let these people who believed help was on the way down.

I'm one of the privledged. I'm white. I don't have kids, I make a decent income, I have health insurance and as I write this I am literally laying back in my La-Z-Boy, wrapped up in a down comforter, with my PowerBook G4 laptop in my lap. I can only imagine how these voters feel today. But I have a powerful imagination, and I'm crying. I can't let this stand, and I can't let this happen again.

Get the tin foil, I'm ready for my hat.
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DeepModem Mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 07:48 AM
Response to Reply #48
49. That is a beautiful post, kk897 --
you've brought tears to my eyes.
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Calvinist Basset Donating Member (318 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 09:10 AM
Response to Reply #48
50. Maybe I'm unrealistically optimistic
But, I can't help but think that Kerry's people are on top of this. Could it be that they are working very much under the radar so as not to encounter the roadblacks that Bushites would erect if they knew a challenge was being mounted to Bush's "win?"

Until the electoral college meets, I'm not giving up. A lot can happen between now and then . . .I just hope I'm correct.
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SharonRB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 12:39 PM
Response to Reply #50
53. So, someone else believes in miracles
I feel the same way you do. I know it's crazy, but I keep hoping a miracle will occur and we'll wake up one day in the near future and hear "And now for an astounding turn of events in this year's presidential election...." You know how we'd like that sentence to end. I also know I'm just in denial, but one can dream, can't one?
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DUBYASCREWEDUS Donating Member (195 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #53
64. DO YOU BELIEVE IN MIRACLES? YES!
I thought I was the only one! I too am hoping that I will wake up one day and hear on the news that the tide has turned in Ohio and the votes are on Kerry's side. Oh wouldn't that be great? Let's keep our fingers crossed and PRAY. Yes, maybe OUR God will hear us!
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SharonRB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 09:24 AM
Response to Reply #64
73. My friends all think I'm nuts
I love your screen name! My friends and family all think I'm crazy to still be holding onto this dream. Wouldn't it be great to turn the tables on the little shrub, though? See how he reacts when his fiefdom falls apart?
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hannad Donating Member (29 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #48
52. Shhhh...they will hear you.
I agree completely. I keep asking myself: "When did I become the nutcase wearing the sandwich board proclaiming the end of the world?" But I digress.
The question is, how can we find the smoking gun? We need to get our hand on
1) A voting machine that was used in OH
2) The source code from those machines
3) Phone logs from the modem pool
4) List of workers who had access to and used the machines.
5) ....

This eleciton was stolen from us! I don't want to wait 20 years until the people responsible start telling us their stories on their deathbed.
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SharonRB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #52
54. I know what you mean
We need to find out before it's too late. I don't want to live through four more years of the same and then find out years later that we were all right. Just like we know we were right four years ago, and nothing came of it thanks to the Supremes. We need to get to the bottom of this while there's still time to do something about it.
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burn the bush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 01:01 PM
Response to Reply #48
58. i heard that kucinich (sp) or his rep was sceptical
at first, but then after the hearings, they were all for recounts and reforms. Heard this last night on some radio staion out of tx i think that had cobbs, someone from NC, Nader on tape, and someone from bbv. Wish i could be more specific but am reading so many differnt things...brain overload....brain overload
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Poll Ally Donating Member (64 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #48
60. None
There were no Kerry people there in any capacity, nevermind official. Doesn't that tell you something?

I see others speculating that it's some double secret mind meld on the part of his campaign to throw off the repubs. Kerry lost the election, he knows this, his campaign knows this, everyone aside of the blogs seems to know this.

There were thousands of Kerry reps in the field on election day. There was NOT ONE report of irregularities back to the campaign. Standing in line for 5 hours stinks but that isn't an irregularity when we just had the most people show up to vote in the last 40 years. You are guaranteed the right to vote, not the right to vote in drive thru fashion. Millions of americans gave their lives, or their limbs so you had the right to vote. Standing in line for a few hours is the least we can do.

The lines were almost 3 hours long in Rhode Island and parts of Massachusetts where the election was never in doubt. There were just so many people in this election voting.

Also, this is what happens when you have 20,000 lawyers at the polling places. In MANY cases the delays were the result of both sides attorneys disputing voters. They both do it, it's a disgrace IMO.

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Bridget Burke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #60
62. Please give us more information on the vote challenges...
Especially those involving Republican voters.

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DUBYASCREWEDUS Donating Member (195 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 03:45 PM
Response to Reply #60
65. ?????
Doesn't it bother you that ALL errors favored Bush across the board? Doesn't it seem a little odd that EVERY error in EVERY state favored Bush? What are the odds of that happening? I could understand if the errors went both ways but they ALL favored Bush. If that doesn't point to a STOLEN ELECTION what does?
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intheflow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-17-04 01:31 AM
Response to Reply #60
79. Welcome to DU Poll Ally.
Intersting post for someone so new.

"There were thousands of Kerry reps in the field on electon day... this is what happens when you have 20,000 lawyers..."

Well, for the computer problems, reps and lawyers wouldn't have noticed anything because it all happened inside the box. (See Nashua (NH) Telegraph: Did lawyer-observers on Election Day miss fraud incidents? by Ian A. Solomon, Assoc. Dean, Yale Law School
http://www.nashuatelegraph.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AI... )


Nor are dem reps inside the polling places likely to know about voter intimidation and other tricks used to discourage people from voting while outside.

You would have to believe the Kerry people were utterly inept to not at least have someone at these meetings in OH.
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Pachamama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-17-04 02:27 AM
Response to Reply #60
82. Actually, your wrong - these long lines, especially if they were a result
of too few polling booths/machines (especially in context to historical voting records) and in comparison to known registered voters in that precinct (and reflecting any increases in voter registration over previous years) is a violation of HAVA (Help America Vote Act). Every industrialized nation in the world holds elections every year where people in a democratic fashion can cast their vote and I guess it might surprise you, but they don't have to wait in lines for 5 hours.

Boy, for a Newbie your also showing your true colors....

Btw - there were Kerry people at this hearing...They just didn't wear a big sign on them saying "I WORK FOR THE KERRY CAMPAIGN".

I was an election monitor in OH on election day along with lawyers that had been dispatched as "observers"....The long lines my dear were NOT as you suggest the result of 20K lawyers disputing issues...anyone who had an issue (ie. they had been challenged inside the polling place or told that they couldn't vote) came to us and we would then go into the polling place with them and ensure that they were allowed to complete a provisional ballot....That activity was always off to the side and did not interfere with the "lines" for the polling booths....

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Old Mouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 04:08 PM
Response to Reply #48
67. thank you
I have lurked here for years - probably one of the many who like to help but hate to participate - but as a black man and a dedicated tin foil conspiracy theorist (I.E. person who reads,) I had to thank you for your eloquence and empathy. Really, thank you so much.
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kk897 Donating Member (829 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 05:13 PM
Response to Reply #67
70. No, thank you!
Hi Old Mouse--it says this is your first post and I just wanted to thank you for, uh, thanking me, I guess. Sounds crazy... aw, I'm tearing up again...

WE CANNOT LET THIS HAPPEN AGAIN. Every single person who values having the right to vote must work to save that right. It's being challenged, even though so many aren't aware of it or so many scoff at it. We can all do a little bit, even if it's just raising the issue or learning as much as we can and evaluating the evidence for ourselves.

Oh...

What the hell do I know? Sheesh, I sound like I'm some big activist or something. I've been to anti-war demos and such, but this is the only thing I've ever done any volunteer work for. But it's never seemed so monumentally crucial before, either, I guess. I just feel like this sham of a system must be changed or we'll all end up regretting it.
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EMP Donating Member (33 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 09:56 AM
Response to Original message
51. kick
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 12:45 PM
Response to Original message
55. Election Tampering - Who sent memos raising the terror threat level?
If Homeland Security and FBI deny any knowledge of this where did the memos come from, where are those memos now?
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Carl Brennan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #55
56. Damn good question. Maybe there was just a phone call
with no trace.
Surely the recipients of the warning did not make this up. It sure looks like some more tampering.

Here is info on the CIA tampering in the past.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...


The CIA has been tampering/fixing elections worldwide
for decades.
This fact was disclosed in the US Congressional's
investigation of CIA's illegal activities
by the CHURCH COMMITTEE and the PIKE REPORT
The most CIA damaging sections that were discovered
by Congress were NEVER even included in the final
Congressional reports.
ELECTION TAMPERING WAS THE LARGEST BUDGET ITEMOF CIA


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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #55
57. The Ohio Factor: Did Homeland Security and the FBI interfere With the Vote
AMY GOODMAN: Can you summarize your piece in today's Cincinnati Enquirer?

ERICA SOLVIG: Well, the story that ran today is reiterating the County Commissioners stance of Homeland Security concerns. They say, as you have already mentioned, that the county was facing a terrorist threat that ranked 10 on a scale of 1 to 10. We talked to several officials with the homeland security department as well as the FBI. They knew of no increased terrorism concerns in Warren County in particular, and just, again, raising the continuing concerns regarding Homeland Security and being locked out of the building. The primary focus of all of the articles has been on, you know, the First Amendment issues and the open government issues that are raised when the public and the media are locked out of the process.

AMY GOODMAN: You have interviewed a number of people for your pieces; among them was a news director at a local TV station?

ERICA SOLVIG: That's correct.

AMY GOODMAN: What did he say?

ERICA SOLVIG: He called this a red herring. Bob Moreford, the News Director at channel 9, CWPO TV, the ABC affiliate here said he had never seen anything like it, and WCPO as well as the Associated Press and the Inquirer all received the same response when they tried to get into the building on election night, and that was being locked out. Moreford said that he considered it a red herring. He continued to say, Thats something that's put up when you don't know what else to put up to keep us out.

AMY GOODMAN: We're taking a look at Keith Olbermann's blog from MSNBC. He was quoting the statement given out by Warren County Commissioner Pat South to MSNBC. You have also been quoting her a great deal. It's quite a remarkable quote. It says, About three weeks prior to elections, our emergency services department had been receiving quite a few pieces of correspondence from the office of Homeland Security on the upcoming elections. These memos were sent out statewide, not just to Warren County, and they included a lot of planning tools and resources to use for Election Day security. Pat South went on to say, In a face-to-face meeting between the FBI and our director of Emergency Services, we were informed that on a scale from 1 to 10, the tri-state area of southwest Ohio was ranked at a high 8 to a low 9, in terms of security risk. Warren County in particular was rated at 10, 10 being the top highest risk. Pursuant to the Ohio-revised code, we followed the law to the letter that basically says no one is allowed within 100 feet of a polling place except for voters, and that after the polls closed, the only people allowed in the Board of Elections area where votes are being counted are the Board of Election members, judges, clerks, poll challengers, police, and that no one other than those people can be there while tabulation is taking place. And yet, Erica Solvig, now the Department of Homeland Security and FBI are denying that they ever talked about a security risk here?

ERICA SOLVIG: They're saying that they were not aware of any increased security risk in Warren County on Election Day. The county has declined to give us the agent's name who told them this, because they haven't talked to this agent - this is an FBI agent - anytime recently. But the Homeland Security officials that we have talked to in the area, as well as the FBI, are unaware of any increased security risk on Election Day. Again, the primary concern was being locked out of a public building on a night when the entire nation was watching, waiting for the results.

AMY GOODMAN: Is Warren County, Ohio, republican or democrat?

ERICA SOLVIG: It is Republican, but politics aside this was an unprecedented action on their part. As far as we know and as far as the Ohio Secretary of State's office knows this is the only county in the state that locked the public out of the building.

AMY GOODMAN: One more time, as you point out in today's Cincinnati Inquirer piece, Pat South the commissioner describes the FBI agent coming to her?

ERICA SOLVIG: The FBI agent apparently spoke with some county officials who then relayed the information to the commissioners. He actually spoke directly to Frank Young, who is quoted in the article as well.

more
http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=04/11/10/153...
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #55
59. Homeland security money goes a long way in Ohio, West Virginia
Sorry I just couldn't pass up that headline


Sunday, November 14, 2004 Time: 12:28:36 AM EST


Homeland security money goes a long way in Ohio, West Virginia

By EVAN BEVINS


PARKERSBURG - Tens of millions of homeland security dollars flow into West Virginia and Ohio each year.

While most of that funding is earmarked specifically for preparedness against terrorist attacks, officials find they can stretch their money to acquire resources that also provide other benefits.
"The equipment can be utilized for much more than just terrorism," said Neal Sharp, director of the Regional Response Program under the jurisdiction of the West Virginia Department of Military Affairs and Public Safety.

The state brought in a regional response team, whose training and equipment was funded primarily with homeland security money, to deal with an Oct. 28 chemical spill in Huntington. The incident was not terrorist-related, but it was a large-scale event, with 2,000 people evacuated from their homes.

Equipment and vehicles for a similar Parkersburg-based regional response team were presented last month. The two trailers and decontamination equipment cost the Department of Homeland Security more than $1.5 million and could be used in flooding situations or chemical spills like the one in Huntington, in addition to biological terror attacks, officials said.

Sharp said Homeland Security Secretary Tom Ridge has visited West Virginia twice recently and praised the state for its approach.

more
http://www.newsandsentinel.com/news/story/1114202004_ne...
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jeanmarc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 03:49 PM
Response to Original message
66. Just another banana republic
Republicans continue to make a mockery of democracy whereever they go. They had enough power in Florida and now in Ohio. Seems people must like living in a banana republic.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-17-04 02:21 AM
Response to Reply #66
81. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
John in Cincy Donating Member (21 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 11:31 PM
Response to Original message
77. A firsthand summary
From a friend with CASE, Susan Truitt:

We had a crowd of over 300 participants on Saturday, national and local press, and documentary film crews.

We heard testimony under oath that citizens are being refused their requests to look at poll books, that data in Perry County shows that the county recorded more votes than actual voters, that lines in many precincts, mostly African American, inner city or college areas, were 4-6 hours and up to 12 hour waits in Knox County, where liberal students from Kenyon College vote. We heard testimony from an observer that the written instructions regarding certification of provisional ballots were orally changed to make certification more restrictive, we heard testimony about an African American patient in a hospital being refused an absentee ballot and how his family took him out of the hospital, IV in arm, to the polling place to vote. We heard how city workers were threatening to tow cars because they had been parked too long and were parked in the grass. We heard how disabled voters were not given any consideration and were made to stand in line for hours.

The testimony was compelling and people came from all over the country for the hearings. Attendees included national free lance journalist, Lynn Landes, who presented an elegant argument for smaller precincts, paper ballots, and no electronic voting machines. People came from California, New York, Pennsylvania and Michigan to hear the testimony.

###
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-17-04 01:39 AM
Response to Original message
80. Deleted message
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