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Drilling lease sale stirs roadless-area rage (Denver Post)

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BleedingHeartPatriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 10:00 AM
Original message
Drilling lease sale stirs roadless-area rage (Denver Post)
By Steve Lipsher
Denver Post Staff Writer


Sunday, November 14, 2004 -

snip>

Carbondale - Bird calls echo off the steep, pine-covered ridges of the Thompson Creek valley, the only sounds in this pristine forest, set aside under a special "roadless" designation by the U.S. Forest Service.

But amid the buzz of the region's energy boom, the recent sale of three gas-drilling leases here has broken the tranquility.

The leases could bring gas exploration to areas previously shielded from development, and they stake out new territory for the Bush administration's energy policy: the country's untapped natural places.

"They don't need to drill in the last of our undeveloped areas," said Pete Kolbenschlag of the Colorado Environmental Coalition, one of seven groups and two local-government bodies appealing the sale before the Interior Department's Board of Land Appeals. "It's going to transform what many of us consider a rural area into an industrial area."

snip>

http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,1413,36~53~2533939,...



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Dirty Hippie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 10:03 AM
Response to Original message
1. Tough Shit Colorado
Edited on Sun Nov-14-04 10:05 AM by OhMyGod
You wanted him, you got him.

Oops... did you forget to check his environmental record before you voted his ass back in?
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scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. Before you collectively condemn the whole state,
Don't you think you ought to consider all the people who DIDN'T vote for bush? Like the environmentalist quoted in the article, for example?

And you might remember that Colorado DID elect a democratic senator, Salazar. Might it not be more constructive to look for ways to help the non-kool aid drinkers keep fighting the good fight?

sw
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Dirty Hippie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 10:18 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. Admittedly,
Edited on Sun Nov-14-04 10:20 AM by OhMyGod
this was not my most thoughtful post.

But as Molly Ivan's reminded us, the only way to break a dog of killing chickens is to strap a dead one around his neck until it rots.

So I guess those gas wells will be dead chicken around the neck of Colorado.

BTW... I'm in Florida. We'll be getting our own dead chicken soon, I'm sure.
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tsuki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #5
16. Didn't ya hear. He's in Tallahasse.
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BleedingHeartPatriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 10:18 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. thanks scarletwoman...I didn't expect "f**k Colorado" to be the
Edited on Sun Nov-14-04 10:22 AM by BleedingHeartPatriot
primary response to the article...there is a great deal of anguish here that we didn't deliver the state and will suffer the environmental consequences of bfee's slash and burn policies. MKJ

edited to add...BTW, a lot of us worked our asses off to try to swing this traditionally RW state...the fact that it was in play at all reflects our collective efforts here.

rant over, that is all. MKJ
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HR_Pufnstuf Donating Member (782 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 12:23 PM
Response to Reply #4
23. or the fact that we passed Amendment 37.
Edited on Sun Nov-14-04 12:45 PM by HR_Pufnstuf
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scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #23
26. Yeah, hats off to you hard-working blue Coloradans!
I swear, there are far too many DUers who are just mirror images of freepers. They just spout off some crap without any kind of critical thinking behind it. Makes me sick.

Anyway, good on you, Colorado! You fought the good fight and won some truly significant battles. That counts for ALOT in my book!

sw
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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 11:51 AM
Response to Reply #1
12. I am SO ANGRY at the DUers who disparage the entire state of CO...
You might take a bit of time to remember that the Rocky Mountain States have more National Park Land as a percentage than any other area in the country. As such, we are truly a treasure for all Americans who seek to enjoy these last vestiges of wilderness. So, EVERYONE loses when this happens in Colorado, in Montana, in Wyoming, in Alaska.

Wake up, my DUers who feel they have to have someone to blame and don't care if they demean and diminish the considerable efforts of countless Colorado DUers at the same time. And, I might remind you that Colorado has been a magnet for some of SOCALDEM's unwanted Southern California repugs as well as those from many other states. So, we inherited your garbage, yet STILL have managed to take back our own state legislature and elect a DEM senator--despite the grip these assholes have had on the State in recent years. That didn't happen on its own.

You who have excoriated the efforts of so many Colorado residents, DUers, and tireless Dems, should look in your own backyard. I'm ashamed of your attitude and you should be too.
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tsuki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #12
17. Apparently you have not read the posts about the south.
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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. Yes, I have: See my retort on Bertha V's thread:
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tsuki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 12:20 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. Good one.
Seems we're too busy alienating one another to worry about what the Republicans do.
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HR_Pufnstuf Donating Member (782 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 12:04 PM
Response to Reply #1
13. dupe
Edited on Sun Nov-14-04 12:11 PM by HR_Pufnstuf
dupe
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HR_Pufnstuf Donating Member (782 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #1
14. Hey a--hole...
We, the people of Colorado, elected

1) A democratic senator

AND

2) Amendment 37 - Renewable energy

"The amendment requires Colorado utilities to increase renewable energy production dramatically, from about 2 percent of their power today to 10 percent by 2015."

http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,1413,36%257E64%257E...

3) We tried to get rid of the Electoral College, until both the Dems and Reps pussied out.

Maybe if your democratic party would elect a better Presidential Candidate, Colorado might have gone democratic in the General. The Dems' General Election loss is none other than the DNC's fault. You mean to tell me that YOUR party couldnt find a candidate to beat bush?? Whatta joke.

You should not have stood down in February, and let the media take out Dean. We all should have stood behind him. The dems needed an anti-war candidate imho, but the media was able to make the war a non-issue. Who's fault is that? The dems.
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 10:10 AM
Response to Original message
2. enjoy those roads..
they asked for it..they got it..what's the beef?
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BleedingHeartPatriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 10:33 AM
Response to Reply #2
8. Are you going to say the same thing about ANWAR? Alaska's a red state, too
MKJ
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HR_Pufnstuf Donating Member (782 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #8
15. Nationalize ANWR is my idea.
Edited on Sun Nov-14-04 12:14 PM by HR_Pufnstuf
And you heard it here.

Why give BP (British Petroleum) 80% of the reserves, and keep 20% for the country, which is what would happen, if Bush gets his way.

If we need to exploit, 100% of the reserves should come to USA, and we exploit it with a Consortium of Company scientists for the benefit of all, not Wall Street.

Pass it on.

Nationalize ANWR!
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 09:03 PM
Response to Reply #8
29. As much as I hate the idea, with the compostion of congress now
it's almost inevitable. :(.. People who do not THINK AHEAD are running the show..
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Nay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 10:10 AM
Response to Original message
3. What are they mad about? That's what they voted for. . .
and what's REALLY hilarious is that lots of the petroleum products we will drill for won't even be for our own use -- the big bidness boys sell it overseas purely for their own profit!

Enjoy it as you are sold down the river, Bush voters!
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HR_Pufnstuf Donating Member (782 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #3
18. Natural Gas is used locally..
Wtf are u talking about?

You dont SHIP Natural Gas idiot.

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BigBigBear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 10:28 AM
Response to Original message
7. I live in CO
Edited on Sun Nov-14-04 10:29 AM by BigBigBear
and I voted against Bush - just about everyone I know did.

Beautiful area around there - I do alot of rafting on the Roaring Fork river, which flows right alongside Carbondale. The picture of my wife below is taken on that river, as a matter of fact.
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scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 10:38 AM
Response to Reply #7
10. Well, at least you got Salazar!
Edited on Sun Nov-14-04 10:39 AM by scarletwoman
Please read this article about how Montana got a Democratic governor, especially the part about how he crafted an alliance between environmentalists and hunters/outdoorsmen. Perhaps you in Colorado can work out a similar coalition to fight off the rape of your wilderness.

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2004/0412.sir...
How a Montana Democrat bagged the hunting and fishing vote, and won the governor's mansion.

(excerpt:)

To understand why hunting and fishing is such a big deal in Montana, consider this: The state has a population of 971,000; in 2001, 723,000 of them fished, hunted, or watched wildlife, according to a U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service survey. Though the state has plenty of land for hunting and fishing, the residents don't take kindly to any effort to restrict their sporting pursuits. Yet throughout the Mountain West, Republicans, working with conservative think tanks, have pushed privatization and property-rights regulations that have the effect of doing just that. In the late '90s, for example, the Montana Republican Party platform, along with Brown's running-mate, Rep. Dave Lewis, tried to restrict the state's treasured Stream Access Law, which demands private landowners allow non-commercial anglers to fish on streams crossing through their property. The legislature also attempted to sell off large chunks of state land, much of it prime hunting territory. Some outdoorsmen became worried that the state's deficit woes would be used as a Republican rationale to reduce spending on public land management programs and sell off even more valuable hunting real estate.

Working with a local outdoorsmen group in Gallatin County, which includes Bozeman, Schweitzer drafted a 9-point plan to protect cherished hunting and fishing access rights on public and private lands. Among other things, Schweitzer called for keeping public lands in the state's hands, for spending more money to maintain them for hunters and anglers, and for using fees from hunting licenses to buy easements from private property owners to give sportsmen easier access to fields and streams. He unveiled this plan at a town hall meeting of conservative hunters and fishermen in Bozeman, to happy applause. Randy Newburg, a Republican who heads the Headwaters Fish and Game Association in Bozeman, effectively endorsed Schweitzer, calling access a special issue, and accusing Republicans in Helena of trying to sell it off to the highest bidder.

The beauty of the access issue was three-fold. First, it helped Schweitzer make inroads with the constituency of outdoorsmen that is normally Democrat-averse. Second, it let us speak to both left-leaning environmentalists, who wanted public lands and wildlife herds maintained, and right-leaning outdoorsmen, who wanted a place to recreate and a steady population of game to hunt. This was especially important because we did not want to alienate the enviros who would be out in force on election day to vote against an initiative to permit cyanide leach mining. Stern, who had a deft sense of strategy, once pointed out, Hunters can be some of the biggest environmentalists around, even though they don't think of themselves that way and would never in a million years label themselves that.


Good luck!

sw
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 10:36 AM
Response to Original message
9. did any left wing commie democratic tree hugging
radicals get with the neo nazi god fearing rifle toting republican fishermen in colorado and point out to them that when the oil and gas companies get done the lefties won`t have their scenery and the righties won`t have any thing to hunt or fish? seems they both have a lot to lose....
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Ima Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 12:24 PM
Response to Reply #11
24. I'm Sorry
To destroy the pristine beauty of Colorado is an irreplaceable loss to mankind. You would have to see it in person to completely understand.
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CAcyclist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #9
19. As I understand it,
yes, they did.Hunters and fishers have done as much or more to preserve open space and bring back endangered species as strictly environmental groups have.

I don't remember the Kerry campaign talking about the environment to any significant degree. I think that was a mistake - if there is any issue which crosses both party lines, its the nevironment.

However, I believe both Colorado and Montana were stolen, too. I don't see any point in attacking Coloradans.
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HR_Pufnstuf Donating Member (782 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #9
21. shutup, this country needs energy..
Edited on Sun Nov-14-04 12:49 PM by HR_Pufnstuf
..at least we have some and know how to find it.

Go drive your car.
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Buddyblazon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 12:38 PM
Response to Original message
25. People keep reminding OMG that we elected Ken Salazar....
and forget that we also elected his brother, John, at the same time to the House. We ADDED two dems to the fray.

We also passed a mess of progressive legislation.

We also won back the State Senate AND House. Making our Texas governor, Owens, into the bitch he should of been all along.

We are VERY upset that we didn't win it for Kerry. I canvassed. Phone banked. Turned EVERYONE I knew onto AAR. Even the neotards I know.
And realize...we've been trending blue for years now. We may finally go by 2008. Definitely by 2012. Look at that stupid red/blue map. Look at how many counties we had go blue.

Here's an idea. Get your ass out of a red state and move here...like the rest of the country seems to be doing. We have 9 EV's now. After 2010...I wouldn't be surprised to see us pick up anywhere from 1-3 EV's.

I'm 5th generation...my family settled this state. I had to sit with my Mother and Girlfriend (she's 4th generation) while they mourned like they lost a family member. I was steaming inside...and had to listen to them cry all day on Nov 3rd. It has ruined what was a very close relationship between my republican Father and I.

Please THINK before you say stuff like that.
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BleedingHeartPatriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 06:26 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. Nicely put, Buddy..see below, this impacts much more than CO.
The bfee is trying to use this to overturn the conservation statutes established by Clinton...see below:

snip>

At issue is whether the Clinton-era Roadless Area Conservation Rule, which the Bush administration is challenging in the 10th Circuit Court of Appeals, can preclude government agencies from allowing industrial development - chiefly energy exploration and logging - in designated roadless areas.

snip>

Critics of selling gas-exploration leases in roadless areas point out that while a total of 4.6 million acres in Colorado have been made available for oil and gas leasing, only 1.6 million acres have been tapped, leaving more than 3,100 leases currently unused.

snip>

"Unless we can stop some of these, wilderness protection is going to end in Colorado," Kolbenschlag said.

snip>

Come on, folks. We need to get together and recognize that the bfee is going to work at a local level to achieve its global plans. I posted this as a warning regarding the overt actions being taken at a grass roots level to demolish existing environmental protections.
MKJ

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Zorra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 08:07 PM
Response to Original message
28. Where is the ELF when you need them? n/t
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