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whatelseisnew Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 07:39 AM
Original message
Woman's Body Found on Fallujah Street
http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,1280,-461...

Sunday November 14, 2004 10:01 AM


AP Photo ANS114

By EDWARD HARRIS

Associated Press Writer

FALLUJAH, Iraq (AP) - U.S. Marines on Sunday found the mutilated body of what they believe was a Western woman during a sweep of a street in central Fallujah.

The body was lying in the street covered with a blood-soaked cloth. Marines fear the body may have been boobytrapped and called in dogs to sniff for explosives.

Although the body has not been carefully examined, a Marine officer who spoke on condition of anonymity said he was ``80 percent sure'' it was a Western woman.

Two Western women are known to have been kidnapped in Iraq.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 07:41 AM
Response to Original message
1. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
maddezmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 07:47 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. Hassan was the director of a humanitarian organization
and I believe the other woman was married to an Iraqi
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eleonora Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 07:55 AM
Response to Reply #3
7. It's a shame.
But many Iraqi women die and we don't hear a peep of them...
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maddezmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 07:59 AM
Response to Reply #7
10. true enough, but you asked why they were there
Edited on Sun Nov-14-04 08:03 AM by maddezmom
and one has been helping Iraqi's when no one else would.
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getoffmytrain Donating Member (575 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 10:04 AM
Response to Reply #7
21. so...
because the death of Iraqi women at the hands of their oppressive husbands are not reported, it lessens the deaths of the women we do hear about?

What a misogynistic statement.
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eleonora Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 10:34 AM
Response to Reply #21
25. I'm a woman
Edited on Sun Nov-14-04 10:37 AM by eleonora
And this is NOT what I said. What the hell are you talking about?

on edit, nevermind.
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getoffmytrain Donating Member (575 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 10:40 AM
Original message
I know you're a
woman, hence your name. Your post (which was deleted for obvious reasons) was bigoted and lessened the death of the other women based on the fact they were from the West. Do you value the lives of some people over others based on where they were born, gender or ethnicity?

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eleonora Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 10:46 AM
Response to Original message
28. No
What I meant is that two "western women" have died and we make a big fuss out of it while countless OTHER Iraqi women die and we don't hear/see any of it. This is what I meant. How else it was understood I don't know.
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getoffmytrain Donating Member (575 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 10:40 AM
Response to Reply #25
27. Double Post- delete.
Edited on Sun Nov-14-04 10:40 AM by getoffmytrain
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 08:20 AM
Response to Reply #1
14. Your ignorance is matched only
by your callousness. I can't do anything about the latter, but here's some information regarding the former: Margaret Hassan is, by birth, Irish. She is a naturalized Iraqi citizen, married to an Iraqi for 30 years. Those years have been spent selflessly, (do you even know that word?) dedicated to the Iraqi people. She fought against sanctions and was against both wars. As head of CARE international in Iraq, she provided medical care and supplies, as well as food. She was an exemplary human being. Because on mourns her demise in no way negates the tragedy of the deaths of Iraqi women and children. She was, and would be, the first person, to rage against such grotesque injustice. Let me add, that it is simply human nature, to focus on an individual with greater ease, than a group. We desperately; need the media to provide us with details about individual citizens in Iraq who are tragically killed in this war.

I could go on, but from your remarks, I don't think it would make the slightest difference. Shame on you and all the others who believe that Margaret Hassan got what she deserved.
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itzamirakul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 09:23 AM
Response to Reply #14
19. When war broke out she...
really should have gotten out as fast as possible. The thing is...she is one who COULD have left while the Iraqi women and children had no choice...they had to stay.

Humanitarianism is a wonderful trait and activity and I salute those who do this often dangerous work, but sometimes you have to read the writing on the wall...
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 09:32 AM
Response to Reply #19
20. When War broke out?
This woman was an Iraqi citizen. She lived through the war with Iran, the first U.S. led war, the sanctions and Saddam. Why the hell should she have left her country at a time when she was needed more than ever? By your logic, No humantarian aid agencies, either NGOs or government sponsored should be in dangerous places. Which, of course, is where they are most needed. Great suggestion! Let those suffering most do without any help whatsoever. Also by your logic, naturalized citizens who are, say, muslims, should leave the U.S.
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itzamirakul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 10:21 AM
Response to Reply #20
24. Look, you have a right to your opinion and...
I have a right to mine. I think that when war broke out so heavily in the region where she was that she should have left - plain and simple.

It is bad enough that the Iraqis are being killed, but this lady should surely have known that some Iraqis might see her as a tool to use for demands (rightly or wrongly). Just because you help people, doesn't necessarily make them all love and protect you. Some of them are new to the region, how do they know of her past and present good works on behalf of her Iraqi family, friends and neighbors?

No matter how humanitarian her reasons might be for staying, she knowingly put herself in harm's way.

Do I feel sorry for her...My God, YES! I don't want anyone to have to undergo that kind of torturous treatment.

In this case, she would have more value to the insurrgents than would a regular, everyday Iraqi mom because they would think that the west would give in to their demands more quickly if they were threatening to behead a European white woman. These Iraquis that are fighting the U.S. troops know that Bush doesn't give a damn how many Iraqi women and children are killed, but they were probably hoping that he or Blair WOULD care about a western woman. (Boy, did they guess wrong!)

She exercised her right to stay near her home, but it may have cost her dearly, when, if she had gotten out, she might have lived to come back and continue with her valuable humanitarian service.

In this case, I am neither cold nor callous, I am merely realistic.

BTW, I don't understand your finding my logic to be that Muslims should leave the US???? What did I write that would lead you to that conclusion?
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Zynx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 10:06 AM
Response to Reply #1
23. That's reprehensible
Edited on Sun Nov-14-04 10:08 AM by Zynx
How can you possibly justify using the same language people here use for mercenaries to refer to a humanitarian worker?

You should be banned.
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Crunchy Frog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 07:42 AM
Response to Original message
2. Yeah, if a local woman dies it's completely insignificant
but if a foreign, particularly a Western woman dies there, then it's a HUGE deal.
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eleonora Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 07:52 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. exactly my thought
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Dr Strangelove Donating Member (65 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 07:55 AM
Response to Reply #4
8. Any News About....
the tens of thousands of Iraqi women we have killed?....Yeah, I didn't think so!
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Fridays Child Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 07:54 AM
Response to Reply #2
6. You may be right, but the woman's origin/ethnicity...
...is the subject of this article because she could be Margaret Hassan, whose kidnapping made headlines, not long ago.
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NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 07:57 AM
Response to Reply #2
9. Front page news when a white women is killed or raped. Anywhere!
How many women of color have been killed since the Laci Peterson story began 2 years ago that we never heard about do you think? Hundreds? And people keep lapping the Peterson shit up like they were all related to her or something. All because CNN told them they should be concerned. I think there is something to that Pavlov's dog stuff.

Don

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UpInArms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 08:01 AM
Response to Reply #2
11. ....
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/04/01/international/worldsp...

excerpt:

"Finally, as a last resort, the soldiers fired into the passenger compartment of the vehicle," the statement issued by the Army said.

Upon further investigation, the Army statement said, it was determined that 13 women and children were in the vehicle, which was said to be a van. Seven of the occupants were killed, two were wounded and four others were unharmed.

An officer with the Third Infantry Division, who would not be identified, said this morning, "The soldiers did the right thing."

...more...
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signmike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 08:16 AM
Response to Reply #11
13. "Finally, as a last resort"
and "upon FURTHER investigation"
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saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 08:31 AM
Response to Reply #11
15. Thugs--


Hey thug troop apologists ---this is the face, of this War Crime that Europe sees.

I will start posting more of these Gems. Some day some of these generals may end up in the cell next to Milosovic.

Like that little dirt ball Sanchez
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NC_Nurse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 07:54 AM
Response to Original message
5. I wonder how many thousand
Iraqi women have died.

Sigh. :(
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Mira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 08:12 AM
Response to Original message
12. Reuters says Fallujah is a disaster
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JitterbugPerfume Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 08:59 AM
Response to Reply #12
17. what's the matter with you people?
Edited on Sun Nov-14-04 09:00 AM by JitterbugPerfume
one death does not diminish another

red , yellow , black or white

dead is dead

and autrocity is autrocity
<sigh>
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CHICKEN CAPITOL USA Donating Member (174 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 10:38 AM
Response to Reply #12
26. Don't you see? she's on our "team" -we want to "win"
Edited on Sun Nov-14-04 10:40 AM by CHICKEN CAPITOL USA
and war is a SPORT !
Where's your team spirit?
If you can't get behind it maybe you want to find another country to live in!

That's what the corporate media news agencies would have us believe.


Washed brains- Wait til each of these victims of propaganda lose a "team" member.
...and see what they think when reality strikes.

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Barkley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 04:12 PM
Response to Reply #12
40. Thanks for this post Mira!
Edited on Sun Nov-14-04 04:13 PM by Barkley
I haven't read anything like this on the American network media sites.
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 08:58 AM
Response to Original message
16. what about the native Iraqi women found dead on the street?
I guess they don't matter?
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getoffmytrain Donating Member (575 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 10:05 AM
Response to Reply #16
22. Of course they do...
why don't you go 'in country' and report on them, get the word out.
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #22
30. here is your report...
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Briar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 09:08 AM
Response to Original message
18. I love the way US military propagandists
allow this sort of story to be reported. Note they cannot be sure she is a "western" woman because they cannot see her properly. The possibility is being reported to distract western audiences from the Iraqi civilian dead of Fallujah, which the US military must fear will soon become known. And of course it will do its job - we all know that one westerner is worth tens of thousands of Iraqis. Did the British care about the 100,000 killed by the coalition so far? Not when they can read multidinous lengthy reports about Ken Bigley and his memorial service.
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Darranar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 10:47 AM
Response to Original message
29. An atrocity. n/t
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raysr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 02:15 PM
Response to Reply #29
32. These unseen wounds cut deep
Edited on Sun Nov-14-04 02:16 PM by raysr
"WASHINGTON Matt LaBranche got the tattoos at a seedy place down the street from the Army hospital here where he was a patient in the psychiatric ward." LATimes, soldier with a sword tatto on his back, "I've come to bring you Hell!". Uh-oh, "666"post.
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sr_pacifica Donating Member (775 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 02:08 PM
Response to Original message
31. Oh, is this the caucasian woman found mutilated?
Edited on Sun Nov-14-04 02:08 PM by sr_pacifica
See

http://www.voanews.com/english/2004-11-14-voa18.cfm

Don't they realize Iraqis are "caucasian" too?

Ignorant.
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rainbow4321 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 02:23 PM
Response to Original message
33.  2 of Allawi's relatives freed
DUBAI (Reuters) - An Islamist group has freed two women relatives of Iraqi interim Prime Minister Iyad Allawi but is still holding his male cousin hostage, Arab satellite television Al Jazeera said on Sunday.
The channel, which was quoting unidentified sources, gave no further details. Iraqi officials were not immediately available to confirm the report.

A previously unknown Islamist group seized the prime minister's 75-year-old first cousin Ghazi Allawi along with Ghazi's wife and their daughter-in-law in Baghdad on Tuesday.

The group threatened to kill them in 48 hours unless Iraq's interim government called off the U.S.-led assault on the rebel-held city of Falluja and freed prisoners.

The government said it would not be influenced by the abductions, which took place a day after Allawi ordered a full-scale assault on Falluja, which his government and the U.S. military say had become a haven for foreign Islamist fighters.

On Thursday, relatives of one of the kidnapped women, identified as Wasnaa Mohammed Jaafar Husseini, begged her captors to release her saying she was nine months pregnant.

Scores of Iraqis and foreigners have been seized by Islamic militant groups and criminal gangs. Some have been freed while others have been killed, several by beheading.


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Darranar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 03:08 PM
Response to Reply #33
35. Excellent news...
do you have a link?
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rainbow4321 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #35
38. Here is the link
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Darranar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #38
39. Thanks. n/t
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 02:53 PM
Response to Original message
34. GROSS ME OUT! Updated Info...
~snip~

In the south of the city, where insurgents regrouped over the weekend, the butchered body of a blonde-haired Caucasian woman was found lying on a street.

"It is a female, missing all four appendages, with a slashed throat and disembowelled, she has been dead for a while but only in this location for a day or two," said a Navy Corps hospital apprentice.

Two foreign women have been abducted in Iraq and remain missing: Teresa Borcz, 54, a Pole, has blonde hair and British aid worker Margaret Hassan, 59, has chestnut-coloured hair.


http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200411/s1243281.ht...
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daleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #34
36. I suppose there is a chance a bomb did this too
She could have been murdered (slashed throat) and a later explosion could have accounted for the rest of the damage.

It seems to me that this level of mutilation is not consistent with past behavior. It is dreadful any way you look at it. As others have said, there a probably dozens of innocent Fallujahn women that have been killed by the assault as well. I suppose this could have been retaliation.

Bush's decision to launch an unnecessary war has set in motion every event since then, including this one. While not absolving the murderers of this hostage of responsibility (assuming that is what happened), Bush shares culpability in the crime.
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #36
37. agreed...
bush* brings out the barbarian in everyone it seems...
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DrWeird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 04:14 PM
Response to Reply #34
41. Oh no! Dead blonde people!
Those fucking savages!!!
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