Nader requests NH vote recount. (Did we just make a huge blunder?)

[americanstranger]

...“We have received reports of irregularities in the vote reported on the AccuVote Diebold Machines in comparison to exit polls and trends in voting in New Hampshire,’’ Nader wrote.

“These irregularities favor President George W. Bush by 5 percent to 15 percent over what was expected. Problems in these electronic voting machines and optical scanners are being reported in machines in a variety of states.’’

Nader’s recount request came in as a fax at 4:59 p.m., one minute before the deadline.

The application is not legal, however, because it did not come with payment, according to Assistant Attorney General Bud Fitch.

“At this point, we aren’t considering it to be a valid request,’’ he said.

Anyone who loses by more than 1 percent of the vote has to pay for a recount, he said, noting the cost statewide could be $80,000.

Nader can appeal that decision to the state Ballot Law Commission.

http://www.nashuatelegraph.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20041106/NEWS02/111060040/-1/news

---


I just blogged about this on Blah3. Here's the short version.

Why would Nader want to challenge NH instead of Ohio or Florida?

Answer: To thwart a possible reversal of the Ohio electoral votes being awarded to Bush.

As of today, George W. Bush is on the record as winning 286 electoral votes to John Kerry's 252. Hold that thought.

I was informed today that lawyers for Team Kerry are currently in Ohio, keeping watch over the coming count of provisional ballots. In the event that the provisional count goes forward and the state is tipped back to Kerry, the tally would be Bush 266, Kerry 272. John Kerry would then be able to claim an Electoral Vote victory, reversing the election result - unless Nader's challenge on behalf of Bush in New Hampshire goes through. If a recount is done and NH swings back to Bush, the Electoral vote tally would be Bush 270, Kerry 268.

Bush would retain his electoral vote edge, thanks to St. Ralph.

---

Oh, not good. Very, very not good.

-as

[leftchick]

1. nader is not on the Ballot in Ohio...

It had to start in NH where he is on the ballot. Calm down, it is a good thing.

[genius]

30. We won NH. Is Nader trying to give it to Bush if Kerry gets Ohio?

[leftchick]

37. NO NO NO... This has everything to do with BBV....

check out hedda's post # 15... she is one of our heroes as well as Bev and Ida and many others. THIS IS GOOD folks....

[DoYouEverWonder]

2. Ralph just had to pull something

He doesn't give a shit which side he hurts as long as he gets some attention. That's what it's all about for that jerk.

[hedda_foil]

15. Sorry, you're wrong. This is a BBV/DU/NBIP initiative.

(NBIP is my organization, National Ballot Integrity Project. We work with all the other groups who are involved in the BBV problem.) IdaBriggs, right here on DU, found that huge statistical variances. The rest of us went to work and, since we couldn't get Kerry or his team interested in asking for a recount of a state he won, we asked a contact to ask Nader. He's willing to do it and filed on our behalf. I was as pissed as anyone about his behavior during the campaign, but if he's willing to put his name on this request, it gets the job we need done. The ballots in NH are ALL recounted by hand.

[Eloriel]

35. Here's more re the y Hedda's explanation

(And may I add that I am absolutely SICK to death of the naysaying that's gone on here about this? GIVE IT A REST, PEOPLE. WE HAVE TO SHOW THE MACHINES ARE JUNK -- RIGGABLE JUNK -- NOT RELIABLE, OR LOSE EVERYTHING FROM NOW ON. Your man Kerry wouldn't do it. SOMEONE has to. Thank God for Ralph (whom I personally don't much care for either). Get on your knees and THANK HIM for this, no matter what other things you may hate him for. We have to save democracy, or we can all save our time and money in 2008 as we wistfully remember how much "fun" it used to be to argue about who should be our nominee. Get it? And while you're at it, thank Hedda and IdaBriggs as well. Ida discovered -- well, you'll see:)


RALPH NADER MAY SAVE THE WORLD!!! (Its NOT Over in NH!) Updated Fri 8:15p (IdaBriggs)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=203&topic_id=25116
Trying To Save the World Today (Nader & My Story of the Day) (IdaBriggs)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=24757&mesg_id=24757

[ozone_man]

41. Wouldn't that be ironic.

Nader saving the day for Kerry. ;-)

Goodluck with the BBV issue. I hope there is something there and a way to prove it.

[KoKo]

68. I think it's a great idea if he succeeds in this...Don't understand the

angst of many DU'ers about this. We've already lost...so what difference does it make if Nader challenges in NH? I just wonder if he can be successful. I'll have to read Ida's posts to see what the legal grounds are after I post this.

Someone has to wake up average Americans to the dangers of these machines. They don't seem to understand it...and so it has to be brought home to them in a way they CAN understand it. With Challenges..

[txindy]

74. We were the ones who asked Nader to step in!

This is a good thing! By checking the results in NH, a state John Kerry absolutely did not lose (check the exit polls), it can be established that there is a pattern of 'miscounts', resulting in investigations in other states.

Nader is revisiting his past as a consumer advocate. This is a GOOD thing!

[libbygurl]

3. I think NH had Kerry waaay ahead of * in the exit polls, but the

actual vote count gave Kerry a much, much smaller margin of victory . Believed to help bolster *'s popular vote count.

[ClassWarrior]

4. But that assumes only those two states in play.

From what I understand, Nader expects to challenge more than 30 states.

NGU.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

5. Well, then...

It is not presently valid.

Do not panic.

Just a thought...if this was tactically unwise, do you not think that certain...intermediaries...would have made a phone call or three?

Just a thought. In passing.

[Cobalt Violet]

6. Kerry will keep his win in NH.

He will pick up more of the electoral vote. Bush would lose some of the electoral vote.

And the media can't them ignore the possiblity of fraud, like they are now.

[Zhade]

78. Wait - does NH split their electoral votes?

NT!

[LoZoccolo]

7. The highlighted part actually says the opposite of what Bush* wants.

He's saying the irregularities favor Bush*, so if we challenge them, they would no longer favor Bush*.

I agree this seems weird, and actually posted a theory last night about how he might be trying to tip the state to Bush*, but I think he's saying the opposite there.

[mzmolly]

20. EXACTLY. THE IRREGULARITIES *FAVOR* BUSH ie. they hurt Kerry.

:hi:

[seafan]

43. All Nader is pointing out is that somehow, all the irregularities

in counting the votes seem to be advantageous for *.

So much so that either * is a very, very lucky guy to receive all those votes in NH, or he is flying under the radar trying to pad his numbers.


It has nothing at all to do with trying to flip the state to *.


What has happened is that major vote skimming and redistribution has very likely occurred nationwide via computer hacking to go into *'s column so that he could claim *legitimacy* in this election. Well, we've got news for him.

He didn't win in 2000 and he didn't win in 2004.

Meanwhile, he's razing the holy city Fallujah as we speak, in a bloodbath that will ignite the rest of the world against us in horrific ways.


We have to get behind Nader right now, because what he is doing may very well save our democracy.

[Tesibria]

8. we only blundered if we don't want an accurate vote count..... nt

[ClassWarrior]

10. Yup. This is about 2004. But it's also about 2006 + 2008.

NGU.

[txindy]

75. Agreed. This is about the long-term view.

Protecting ourselves from losing elections forever. It could also finish the neocons.

(Okay, I give. What does "NGU" stand for?)

[John Q. Citizen]

9. Chill out

The exit polling in New Hampshire gave Kerry a 15% lead over Bush.

The final NH tally gave Kerry a 1% lead over Bush.

The precinct breakdown shows that Kerry had more support in rural conservative NH than in urban liberal NH.


What are you afraid of?

Who informed you that Kerry lawyers are in Ohio overseeing the upcoming provisional ballot count?

Kerry says the math shows he can't win Ohio, even with the proivisional ballots, which is why he conceeded.


What are you afraid of?

[americanstranger]

28. Afraid of victory being snatched from the jaews of defeat...

or vice versa. However that old saying goes, I always get confused by it.

-as

[Amigust]

66. Palast says Kerry would win Ohio if the "spoiled" ballots were

counted along with the provisional ballots. Story

[Barad Simith]

11. this helps the Ohio recount effort

The repukes will not fight the NH recount, because Kerry won NH.

As a presidential candidate, Nader can legally obtain a recount.

Proving fraud in NH will set the precedent for recounts elsewhere, including Ohio.

[Sade]

12. Thats not the point...

Seriously, the point of the whole thing is FAIR vote counting across the board. IF the votes in NH, OH or FL are LEGITIMATELY Bush's votes then he won fair and square. And we should all move on. If on the other hand, the election was rigged or tampered with in any way then we have a MASSIVE problem that goes beyond just who won this election. This is our democracy at stake.

In my humble opinion, the biggest mistake the Gore team made in 2000 was to request recounts ONLY in the 4 heavily democratic counties. If Gore had done the right thing, the fair thing, and asked for a statewide recount to make sure all of Florida's voters were enfranchised, by most accounts he would have carried the state.

I too love John Kerry and John Edwards, but there is a bigger issue at stake than just who won the white house in 2004. Has our democracy been hijacked? Thats the question that I'm losing sleep over.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

14. I do agree with that much

[Samantha]

18. There was no provision in the Florida State Constitution for a statewide

recount. Florida delegated all of its voting authority to the individual counties. The only way Gore could have gotten a statewide recount from the beginning was through (1) permission of the Governor (and we all remember who that was and still is); (2) through a court order (which eventually happened through the second Florida Supreme Court opinion).

The Republicans enjoyed calling this "cherry picking" the counties, but the truth of the matter was that was Gore's only option. The Gore camp contacted several counties in question asking how many over and under votes they had, and from that response, chose which counties to request recounts from. Duvall county said it had very few, 300 at most. It was later learned there were 22,000 uncounted votes in Duvall, most of which are from African-American / Democratic voters. Many of these "overvotes" had Gore's name checked but wanting to be sure no mistake was made, the voters also wrote Gore's name in in the write-in section. Because there were two "votes" or marks on the ballots, they were considered "overvotes" and thus not counted. The rule of law in Florida that each vote must be counted where the intent of the voter can be discerned was totally ignored.

[ZR2]

34. Not correct

The entire state of Florida was originally recounted. This was done as required by Florida law since there was less than 1% difference between the candidates. Gore's team then chose to challenge the recount numbers in those 4 counties.

[papau]

59. No you are not correct - indeed there was not even one complete count

The first count requires ballots that do not record a vote per the machines to be put through again.

This is part of the first count procedure.

Much of Florida did not do this.

When a panhandle area did this they got a 1000 or so (memory fades) more votes for Gore. That election boss then declared the second run invalid and reported the first run.

The Statewide recount ordered by the Court was never done - and when done by the media - Gore won.

Only the 4 county recount - which is what I believe you are talking about - and which is a provision of Florida law (statewide can only be ordered by the Court) - was sorta done.

[kurtyboy]

73. ZR2, You are misinformed or lying. Probably the former.

Do some research, please.

Just sayin'....

Kurt

[mountainvue]

79. Sorry. You don't have your facts

straight.

[glitch]

87. You are absolutely correct - a fact ignored by the media ever since.nt

[abbadon]

86. that's FL law

The state doesn't allow for a generic state-wide recount, I believe - each county wherein you request a recount must be specified

naturally, they could have done that ...

[Obviousman]

13. we're not on the same page

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x26802
the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is up to

[americanstranger]

17. I still trust Nader

about as far as I can throw my truck.

-as

[JPace]

42. You don't have to trust Nader....

we already lost....there is nothing more to lose.
But maybe, just maybe we can find a pony under all
this dung.

[Sideways]

19. I'm On The Same Page

Go Ralph Go.......disclose the fraud....kick *'s Mandate into the fucking ash can. And kick it HARD.

[high density]

16. Not good?

What difference does it make? If it can expose fraud in either direction it gives us great ammo to help get these machines removed from our elections as soon as possible.

[mzmolly]

21. You misunderstand. They FAVOR Bush, and hurt Kerry. Ralph is

not saying that Bush should have won NH, he is saying he got more votes than he should have.

[GinaMaria]

22. It's best that this come from the Green Party

I think the investigation will be worthwhile. Nader's consumer advocacy past will help.

[Lisaben2619]

27. At the risk of nitpicking--

Nader is not a Green. David Cobb was the Green Party nominee for Presdient.

[GinaMaria]

62. no risk :-)

You are right. I think most people associate him with the Green party though. It's a perception. He also has the perception as a spoiler, so I guess it could work both ways. I always thought he was best in his consumer advocacy days.

[mountainvue]

80. It was a Green Party

person that asked Nader to do this.

[seafan]

23. Disagree. NH exit polls had Kerry up by ~15 points over *.

That's why we don't have to worry about NH flipping to * in a recount. No way.

And that's why it took so long into the evening for the networks to call NH.... the * folks had to crunch a bunch more numbers. It was probably *hard work*.

And by asking for a recount in a Kerry-won state, it gives even more proof that this is about the people's right to have their votes counted, no matter who the winner turns out to be. The beautiful thing about NH is that all those votes are backed up by p-a-p-e-r!! This is what we Floridians fought so hard for in 2000, and the Supreme Court stepped in to stop our count. We are still enraged over this.

We are all New Hampshire residents now! (Or at least until the investigation gets going full blast down here!)



Again, this all goes way beyond this election in and of itself.... it is to preserve the Constitutional rights of all of us, and that is to have our votes accurately counted. Like another poster here somewhere said, 'we will drag John F. Kerry kicking and screaming into the WH if it turns out that he got the most votes.' Amen.



We've also got FL to deal with now. See this thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x83388

See you in the trenches!

[americanstranger]

25. Thanks for the input, everyone.

Don't fault me for being nervous about this.

-as

[LoZoccolo]

32. I still think it's screwy though.

I have such a strong distrust of Nader after all he's done.

[Eloriel]

51. Okay, AS -- but really,

there are really good and trustworthy DUers behind this.

I hope you'll alter or amend your blog now that you have a better understanding of what's going on -- ??

[americanstranger]

54. Sure, I'll qualify the post.

I'm a trusting sort. :)

I'll leave what's there, there - but I will also state that there are other progressives who share a different view from my original post.

I don't like taking things down - that's too much like the real media. ;)

-as

PS: Just went back and added that this has got the DU seal of Approval, and I'm linking back to this thread.

I'll say in closing, good luck to anyone who takes on this issue. We don't always agree about everything, but that does not mean I don't wish success on these efforts.

[Eloriel]

56. I don't suggest you take it down -- I agree with your position on that

But I would like to see you say not JUST that other progressives "have a different view," but that there are progressives who are spearheading this -- IdaBriggs discovered and developed the data, Hedda_Foil and the National Ballot Integrity Project, BBV.org -- and I'm trying to help in my small way. These aren't just different opinions, AS, but unless you distrust ALL of us -- and it's DUers who got Ralph to DO this -- it would be appropriate for you to just tell the story as it unfolded so far and continues to unfold.

Again, it's not like this was Ralph's self-serving idea. It wasn't. WE put him up to it (we = some DUers with a little help from a few other trustworthy folks, some of them on the ground in NH).

[americanstranger]

57. Okay, I added that.

That it was the efforts of DUers and other activists who got this rolling, and it wan't Ralph's idea.

Good luck with it.

-as

[Eloriel]

61. Thanks n/t

[PartyPooper]

24. Winning the White House fair and square is all we've ever wanted!

We were cheated out of that with Jeb and Katherine Harris in Florida in 2000. Many of us were afraid of electronic voting way before November 2 because of 2002 and Max Cleland's "loss".

Let's count all the votes! Recount them all if necessary. If it can be shown that Bu$h won fair and square, so be it.

Otherwise, this country has gone to hell in a hand basket with the fascists in charge.

I just want to know the truth. And, I don't believe for a second that Kerry lost Florida or Ohio in this election!

[LightTheMatch]

26. Too bad...

If Kerry's campaign would come out and tell us what they're doing, other than nothing, we wouldn't be so desperate as to side with Nader. Since they haven't told us anything, we have to go with what we can get. If Nader wants to genuinely help, then I'll take his help!

[Eloriel]

50. You're not "siding with Nader" -- this isn't a partisan issue

It's not about doing any harm to Kerry in any way.

This is purely about the voting machines. Probably 99% of DUers understand they're rotten to the core, unreliable, riggable, error prone, hackable. They've GOT to be gotten rid of. That's what this is about. Let's help the only someone who has stepped up to the plate to help US expose these fraudulent and error-prone machines. That's all this is about. You don't have to love Nader (I don't), you don't have to vote for him ever, you don't have to forgive him for 2000 -- none of that. He just happens to be the one person (out of 3 possible, the candidates) who agreed to ASK for a recount. For that I thank him. You should too.

Unless, of course, you don't mind voting in 2006 and 2008 and 2012 and never, ever, ever again getting your vote properly counted.

[Amigust]

69. I suspect that the Kerry people are doing nothing

and don't intend to. That's my gut feeling. Wish it were different. His "teacup" statement in July 2003, taken together with his letting deadlines pass without a challenge, suggests to me that that's where he is now too.

He is impatient with Democratic oratory about the "stolen" {2000} election. "Stop crying in your teacups," he told one audience. "It isn't going to change. Get over it."

[Ardee]

29. remedial reading in order?

“These irregularities favor President George W. Bush by 5 percent to 15 percent over what was expected. Problems in these electronic voting machines and optical scanners are being reported in machines in a variety of states.’’

Does this not plainly show that Nader is saying that Bush got more votes than he deserved to get in New Hampshire?

I am so sick of people who never pay the slightest attention to Nader's bashings of Bush, far more than one ever hears from democrats by the way,using Nader as a punching bag to avoid placing blame exactly where it belongs, on the shoulders of the Democrats.They and they alone are responsible for the losses and you can search for scapegoats all you want, the truth remains the same.

[americanstranger]

33. Yeah, you have a nice day, too.

Sheesh.

-as

[Ardee]

64. Great debating technique AS

First you misplace the blame in a kneejerk reaction to the "dreaded" Nader name. Then you fail the litmus test of belief in your own ideas with a one line "nothing" that fails to address at all my post......

This nation is in a lot of trouble and lazy minds and angry people are not going to be of any help at all......

[americanstranger]

67. Didn't sound like you wanted a 'debate.'

Sounded like you wanted to scold somebody.

Sorry, not gonna bite. Go find somebody else. Have a great night.

-as

[Ardee]

84. we see things, not as they are but as we are

I realize that we are ,all of us, tired, depressed ,and more than a bit fragile.

When I post I post that which I feel to be true, that which I honestly believe. I would accept any criticisms thereof, even those couched in sarcasm or even rudeness. What I would not ever accept is the sarcasm and the rudeness without the criticisms of the points I offer.

" The only battles worth winning are those in which we lose, we lose, we lose, we lose, and then we win." Eugene Debs

[Deere_John]

31. Isn't Nader's recount filing basically DOA because of the missing fee? n/t

[Eloriel]

53. Apparently not --

We're working on it still -- it's not over til it's over. :evilgrin:
Stay at the ready, hang loose, watch for updates. I think the filing fee ($2K) is covered, which is great.

[seafan]

63. Here's the latest I could find. It's being appealed, apparently.

<snip>

Nader’s recount request came in as a fax at 4:59 p.m., one minute before the deadline.

The application is not legal, however, because it did not come with payment, according to Assistant Attorney General Bud Fitch.

“At this point, we aren’t considering it to be a valid request,’’ he said.

Anyone who loses by more than 1 percent of the vote has to pay for a recount, he said, noting the cost statewide could be $80,000.

Nader can appeal that decision to the state Ballot Law Commission.

Two years ago, the commission agreed to go forward with a recount for a legislative seat after a losing candidate tried to fax a copy of the check to pay for the recount.

Secretary of State Bill Gardner said a Nader official told him the campaign tried to fax a copy of the check to pay for the recount but it jammed.

“If they appeal, it’s up to the Ballot Law Commission to settle this,’’ Gardner said.

http://www.nashuatelegraph.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20041106/NEWS02/111060040/-1/news

[Malva Zebrina]

36. I don't think that NH would swing to Bush

It is unlikely, imo. On the other hand, should Kerry take Ohio with the provisional ballot count, be sure that, bet on it, our beloved king George will challenge in the court and demand a recount, if the time is not up. Is there a deadline in Ohio for a challenge as in NH?

[hlthe2b]

38. Nader has broken my heart at every turn....BUT I contacted him as did

others to ask him to request the recount. While I truly, truly understand others' skepticism, I think I've always understood Nader's objective, even while I detested his "take no prisoners, end-justifies-the-means" methods...I never voted for Nader in 2000 and certainly not in 2004, but part of me does agree we ultimately MUST have strong 3rd parties. Part of the reason we are in the crisis we are in, is that with only two parties, it doesn't take much for one to become far too strong.

That having been said, I put what is left of my heart on the line once again. I truly believe that Nader shares our worry for the future and the loss of democracy that may have been precipitated by overt fraud at the ballot box (or black box, as we have come to know). I want the truth, even if it means Bush* won fairly. But, it is critical that we restore some credibility to the electoral process. If we do not, we are truly adrift--only waiting the violence that is surely in our future. For this reason, I have to trust Nader's motives. We MUST know....

Thank you to all our black box investigators...The service you perform is an immense credit to us all.

[karlrschneider]

39. Isn't it a moot point if a required payment wasn't made?

All I know is what the OP said:



Nader’s recount request came in as a fax at 4:59 p.m., one minute before the deadline.

The application is not legal, however, because it did not come with payment, according to Assistant Attorney General Bud Fitch.

“At this point, we aren’t considering it to be a valid request,’’ he said.

[rockydem]

40. If pugs tampered with votes anywhere it's a black eye for them

In fact, it would be a HUGE scandal.

[Amigust]

71. We have seen how huge Repug scandals have been routinely

swept under the rug or allowed to just die by our reliable corporate media. Wasn't Watergate the last one the big media actually came through on?

[DancingBear]

44. Ok - I'll say it yet again

Exit polls in NH showed Kerry up anywhere from +12 to +16. Final EV numbers had him up by +2.

What is happening here is clear - Bush was stealing votes in NH to pad his PV. Remember how the jackass was strutting about his mandate? It was IMPERATIVE for him to have both an EC victory and a PV win, which meant of course in excess of 50%.

By pulling out votes in NH (and many other states, I am sure) he was able to accomplish it.

The massive discrepancy between the exit polling results and the final results are why NH was chosen.

Nader can gain nothing from this, save to recover his label as reformer.

NH opens the door for us to get into FLA and OH, for starters. By proving fraud here we gain legitimacy, for no one can accuse us of trying to flip results - we already won NH.

This is a very good thing. Very good.

[americanstranger]

46. I agree with you on the 'vote padding' thing.

That's why there were discrepancies in Bush-safe red states - they had to get above 50% of the popular vote.

I hope you guys are right about this.

-as

[glitch]

88. You are not the only one who is concerned. Just fyi. nt

[Amigust]

72. In a nutshell. n/t

[DS1]

45. John Kerry gave up so fucking fast I'd be happy to see Nader in

:eye:

[Francine Frensky]

47. I thought someone on this board asked Nader to do this???

there was a post earlier today from someone who said he was concerned with problems with voting counts, and he tried to get the Kerry camp to ask for a recount, but they didn't "bite", so he approached nader, but he didn't have enough money so it was dead in the water.

This would be good for Kerry if it is shown that the computers were counting things pro-Bush, anti-Kerry.

[Divine Discontent]

49. There is NOOOOOOOOOOOO amount to pay

because there is no exact costs for doing the recount until after doing it, if you follow. how can ralph pay something that isn't known?

he filed the complaint, he's a 'celebrity' so he's not some guy on 5th street who wanted attention, he can pay for it so why wouldn't they then tell him, he needs to have x amount of dollars in by x time.


This could be what we need! because otherwise, as stated above, we've nothing else apparently going on!

[Eloriel]

58. Here's the story -- LINKS

Need Some DU Help w/New Hampshire Stuff!!! (URGENT)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=26802&mesg_id=26802

RALPH NADER MAY SAVE THE WORLD!!! (Its NOT Over in NH!) Updated Fri 8:15p
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x25116

National Ballot Integrity Project
http://www.ballotintegrity.org/


Nader requests NH vote recount. (Did we just make a huge blunder?)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=965216

Nader, Cobb and Badnarik may all be willing to look into recounts in
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x26843

[Bluerthanblue]

48. IMPORTANT!!!!- PAPER TRAIL IS

pretty much 'guanenteed'- unless i'm totally off base-
i remembered hearing this on NPR and went in search of the fact that NH is adamant about having PAPER ballots- and i also had an interesting discussion with the supervisor of out checklist who said 'years ago' they were offered the 'butterfly' type ballots typical of Fla. 2000 - and saw that they were flawed and unreliable-

here's a quote from the NPR show about the factory that prints ALL ballots used in NH- and a link to the transcript-

A PAPER TRAIL (Karen) “The Secretary of State, Bill Gardner, is adamant about having a paper trail when voting. If we go to a computer system, in the future, which I don’t know if we will, there will be a paper ballot printed as well, for recount purposes as well as for checking for fraud, that type of thing” (:20)

All in all, Capital Offset will produce about 722 thousand ballots for this job.
Once the ballots have been used, towns have to hang onto them for 60 days – if there’s a recount, the sec’y of state’s office collects them, otherwise they stay in the town for 60 days, after which Karen says they’re no longer the state’s responsibility.

http://www.nhpr.org/view_content/7393/

[Darranar]

52. Excellent news! This stuff needs to be investigated. n/t

[are_we_united_yet]

55. “These irregularities favor President George W. Bush by 5 percen.."

Not clear. I can read this the other way as well, meaning George got 5-15% more than he should of.

[judaspriestess]

60. I applaud

everyone here who is trying to make a difference.
I may be fairly new here but I am one of you and anything you need and I mean anything let me know. I am here in Nevada.
I'm proud to be an american today
:)

[Swamp Rat]

65. No, because ALL the machines need to be investigated in every state.

As much as I loathed Ralph these last few months, I hope he is successful in proving Bush got more votes than he was supposed to.

[Zhade]

81. I love your pics. This one made me giggle.

Wouldn't it be crazy if NADER actually started the process of saving democracy?

[Swamp Rat]

83. Thanks!

Yes it would be insane, much like the time we are living in right now. HA! Nader to the rescue. :P

Right now my hero is Bev Harris, and regular Americans doing thankless jobs at their own expense to save democracy.

[AmericanErrorist]

70. The media has no reason to care about Ralph Nader

Or New Hampshire. If a recount bulids the case for fraud, great. But don't expect the major newspapers and TV to care about a state that wouldn't even alter the final result.

[txindy]

76. It's not about New Hampshire

It's about establishing a pattern that will help in questioning the results in states like Ohio and Florida (or other states with optical scanning). That's the why I've read it, anyway.

[Gyre]

77. We could hardly be in a worse postion than we're in.

Let him do his worst. Don't see that we have any choice. We were so successful convincing him to drop out.

Gyre

[Merlin]

82. If Nader proved Diebold machines are rigged, it's a whole new ballgame.

Let him do it. If he were to succeed, it would blow the lid off the vote count nationwide.

[barb162]

85. I am after an ACCURATE accounbt in every state, then I think

I can live with the results.

[Habibi]

90. Exactly right.

How can we even discuss "what direction to take" if we cannot trust the actual vote tally? Once we are more certain of the actual tally, then we can talk about where to take the Dem party.

[Jack Rabbit]

89. eVoting needs to be examined and we should thank Nader

We should thank Nader for bringing this up.

A two or three point discrepancy between the exit polls and the actual result can be written off as within the margin of error; a five point discrepancy begins to look suspicious, especially if it is consistent in different and diverse locations; a 15-point discrepancy means that either the exit polling was terribly wrong or the machines were terribly inaccurate.

As a computer programmer, I can tell anyone that it is very easy to write a program that will take the user's input and record something else. Anybody who has taken a basic class in a programming language and received a passing grade has the skills to rig an election with a electronic voting machine without a paper trail.