Creationist sees clear proof in volcano | Seattle P-I

[Ediacara]

Creationist sees clear proof in volcano
Ex-pastor's small museum lets doctrine speak for itself

By MIKE LEWIS
SEATTLE POST-INTELLIGENCER REPORTER

SILVER LAKE -- So near the mountain, as close to the wrongheaded center of secular geology as a red-light-district preacher is to vice, the creationist admits he'd expected a little more business when Mount St. Helens began acting up.

For the past few days, the Seven Wonders Museum has been quiet as motorists -- Lloyd Anderson calls them "thrill seekers" -- speed east, right past his roadside marquee along state Route 504 on their way to see the mountain vent steam and ash.

"This is where they can get the truth," said the former pastor and now curator of the region's only museum devoted to creationist doctrine. "I wonder, are they really looking for true science when it comes to the historicity of the Earth?"

Founded in 1998, the two-room, 1,400-square-foot museum is Anderson's attempt to make a counterpoint to the visitors centers, bookstores, gift shops, eruption theaters and conventional geologists swarming around the country's most active volcano.

More at the Seattle Post-Intelligencer

[Kimber Scott]

1. It's a free country.

I do think the red-light district preacher analogy is pretty good. And what do they say is the first factor in business success? LOCATION. LOCATION. LOCATION. I think he picked the wrong spot.

[delete_bush]

2. Let's hope another factor at work is

PRODUCT, PRODUCT, PRODUCT!

[Kimber Scott]

6. And...

Know your customer. Know your customer. Know your customer.

[delete_bush]

10. Well, at least he

sounds rather harmless. Seems as though you could have a conversation with him without being lectured on going to Hell.

[Amigust]

5. Fine — till these wackos control who gets elected

and determine policy.

How does he account for layers in Grand Canyon that contain upwardly increasingly complex fossilized life forms?

[Arianrhod]

28. How do you think * got there? n/t

[Crunchy Frog]

30. That would be what they call "hydrological sorting"

The scientific phenomenon by which more primitive organisms sink to the bottom layers while more advanced ones settle in higher layers. There is supposed to be some fantastically good scientific explanation for how this works, though I haven't actually been able to find it yet.

[Arianrhod]

47. They claim that more advanced animals ran to the tops of hills as

the waters rose.

No lie. You can find it on the ICR Website in "Acts and Facts".

Idiots.

[Skip Intro]

8. I agree

believe and speak what you wish, just don't try to legislate it or shove it down my thoat - whatever it is.

[DBoon]

11. Ironically he is a candidate for the Darwin Awards

By placing himself in obvious danger, he is eliminating from the gene pool those inherited traits causing his behavior.

[depakid]

3. Ignorance is strength

and don't you forget it!

[da_chimperor]

4. So . . . what does he have in his museum? One of god's used handkerchiefs?

He must have worked up a sweat creating the universe in 7 days after all.

[Kimber Scott]

7. He probably has a rock with a depression in it where God sat on the

7th day, resting.

[da_chimperor]

9. Wow, a rock with an imprint of divine butt-cheeks! Irresistible! n/t

[Kimber Scott]

12. Yep sir, this here's got the butt-print of Gawd all over it.

LOL!

[TlalocW]

14. You see that there?

That's God's ass-groove from where he sat down to take a breather on the 7th day! BELIEVE IT HEATHENS OR PERISH A LAKE OF FIRE! IT'S THE ALMIGHTY'S ASS GROOVE!

TlalocW

[lazarus]

13. The biggest one of these

Creationist museums is just a couple of miles from here. I drive by it all the time.

The temptation is SO strong sometimes to just stop by with some "innocent" questions. :evilgrin:

[Kimber Scott]

15. Well, check it out. Let us know what's inside! nt

[Crunchy Frog]

31. I believe that would be the Great Arklsiezure

that you're thinking of, from the scripture of Douglas Adams. Those who believe in that live in dread of the Coming of the Great Hanky, which is how the universe will end.

[stevedeshazer]

16. He's a very nice man

I stopped by and spoke with him once. He really believes this stuff.

In my view, he's just one of the many human beings who makes life interesting. Nutty perhaps but relatively harmless.

Now, when the President says he asks God for advice...well, that's a whole 'nother deal.

[mmonk]

17. creationists aren't benign

IMO. They are near the cusp of power and thus education.

[Amigust]

18. And that's a real and present danger.

eom

[depakid]

19. I'm guessing that you're right Stevie_D

and as an old school Oregonian, I like to live and let live. We've got nutty stuff all around our state, from the Oregon Vortex to back around 20 years ago with the Bagwan, and even further back to Wayne Morse and Tom McCall.

We do things differently here, but that seems to me to piss a lot of people off in other places- and so they raise money to cast us down. And I have to hand it to them. They are relentless, and in many ways, they've succeeded. The fire is once again at Edens gate.

[stevedeshazer]

35. I'm one of those old-school Oregonians, too

And "Fire at Eden's Gate" is a good read.

I think most Oregonians (and our friends across the creek in Washington) just want to be left alone to their own beliefs and mind their own business.

[HuckleB]

39. I wish I could agree.

Unfortunately, measure 36 and its many precursors over the last 16 years speak otherwise.

On edit: He may be "nice," but I don't think we can tell that from one visit with him, or even a few. It's just that I don't think that polite and courteous necessarily equate with nice.

[Zhade]

20. "Creation Science" - the dumbest thing this side of b*sh.

Amazing, what some people will believe.

They have the right to believe it, just don't expect me to take them seriously!

[crossroads]

21. Amazing!

:eyes:

[AlienGirl]

22. Dang it, we should've stopped in!

Xen and I just drove past that place a few hours ago. Had I known it was a kooky creationist museum, I'd have insisted on taking a tour!

Tucker

[Divine Discontent]

23. Here to just live and die, no.

Is that all you believe? Creationism is being horribly mocked here. I'm sure you find it funny. This is the same attitude that makes people like DUBYA get half the vote in America. I have a million things that the fake acting righteous would say make me unfit for heaven, but I truly believe that we're here for more than just a couple years before dying, and it's a test on our soul. But I'd rather be wrong than get to heaven and find out I lived my few years of existence on earth so callously in mocking others belief in the manners you have done so above. I question why you would vote for John Kerry, as most of you will, this is Democratic Underground after all, not some odd ball cult group's website? He is a Christian, very very much like myself. I've spoken to him and he is a blessed man, who is compassionate to all, and would look down upon your childish mockery of faith. Turn away from this behavior, I implore you with love, and go Kerry! No wolf in sheep's clothing needs to be in the White House making the "real" undecided feel that Christians are as unloving as this Administration is to nature, the poor, and the old. Give Him a try, before your last breath.

God bless... :)

http://www.cafepress.com/w_bush_village

[ISUGRADIA]

24. I would not mock people's religious beliefs

but don't ever try and tell me that creationism is "science". That, my friend, is different and something I will not abide.

Teach creationism in a religious class but never a science class. The proponents of this rubish don't even follow the basics of scientific inquiry and ignore or explain away any countering evidence with non-sense.

[AlienGirl]

26. I will openly mock creationism because it is NOT FACTUAL

The evidence shows it to be wrong. It's being called a "science" when in reality it might be a cool story, a useful allegory, or a metaphor for something deeper. But science--no, it's not that, and if it calls itself that it deserves to be mocked.

Have you read any of Karen Armstrong's work regarding the uses of mythos and logos in life? It is possible to deplore bad science while accepting principles from the "mythos" side of life (where religion, poetry, and art are) as important guiding tenets.

Tucker

[NickB79]

27. Creationism has nothing to do with true religion

True religious convictions require FAITH, believing in something without any proof whatsover. Those that push creationism no longer have faith, but instead need to push their skewed, unfounded beliefs on the rest of us to replace the faith they once had. I actually feel sorry for them in this respect.

Creationists are not true Christians, because true Christians wouldn't need ANY evidence to believe the Word of God. They are modern-day Doubting Thomas's, looking for physical representations of the spiritual realm.

[kayell]

29. Why do you think that Creationism is synonymous with Christianity?

I'll mock anyone who tries to sell mythology as science. When pushed to the wall with evidence, the best the people can come up with is that fossils and stratigraphy were created by God as a test of faith. What a small, nasty god these people believe in.

[regnaD kciN]

49. "...synonymous..."?

Give me a break. It may be a standard belief among fundies, but I don't know of a single established Christian denomination that doesn't hold that evolution is a scientific fact, and the two (yes, there are two) creation stories in Genesis are a symbolic way of explaining how everything has its source in God.

[Crunchy Frog]

32. I find it absolutely hysterical, thank you very much.

I would find it even more funny if these people weren't out to undermine the scientific and technological base for maintaining our country's superpower status, but that may turn out to be for the best in the end as well.

I don't at all mock the notion that our existence may have meaning beyond what can be measured and described scientifically, but that is very different from respecting the absurd claims of self-described creation "scientists".

At any rate, I'm glad that you support Kerry, I respect your religious convictions but would hope that you would give science an openminded look and see that it does not have to contradict religious faith, unless it is taken to absurdist extremes of literalism. Kerry believes in science. So does the Pope.:)

[BiggJawn]

34. Believe what you wish, just don't try to make it the LAW of the LAND.

And that's all I'll say about it.

BTW, welcom to DU, where we Atheists are as passionate about our lack of faith as you Christians are as passionate about your faith...

[SemperEadem]

40. creationism attempts to deny proven scientific fact

without any proof except for one book, which was heavily re-written in the 16th and 17th centuries. Those who want to lift creationism over proven scientific fact also want to 'dumb down' our young people in school by removing evolution sciences in the grade and highschool curriculum and replacing them with religious-theory tracts---making those young people absolutely useless in the world of science, medicine, physics, geology, astro-physics and other earth sciences because they will not have even gotten the basics of science in order to compete with the millions of young people elsewhere in the world who have--and who will get the jobs and the better pay because of that.

Creationism as a replacement for scientific fact should be exposed and scorned at every turn because it is religiously and emotionally based and not scientifically based and no decision should be made on anything based solely on emotion.

Creationism only leads to the creation of WalMart greeters, nothing else.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

42. Obi's trying to tell me something.

About some kind of disturbance.

[Sterling]

48. That is so stupid.

Kerry does not believe in creationism. Holding on to such dimwitted beliefs will take our country down the toilet. If these kinds of stupid ideas are not mocked they can take on the kind of fake legitimacy that W has managed.

I really hope you don't buy into that stuff. I also hope you don't think "half of America" does either. The vast majority of people all over the world scoff at such idiocy. if we were to champion those kinds of falsehoods then we lose all credibility.

[Voltaire99]

25. Dear Creationists: Jump in the volcano to see God now!

On behalf of secularism, let me thank you in advance.

[nolabels]

33. Did anyone ever see this movie?

It kind of sounds like fun :-)


oe Versus The Volcano
(1990)

Joe Versus the Volcano is a true early-1990s cult film. This fantasy-comedy was the first pairing of Meg Ryan and Tom Hanks, yet it polarizes viewers like a Blue Velvet or Happiness. As the only directorial effort from John Patrick Shanley (the Oscar-winning writer of Moonstruck), it is something special, and it's hard to resist the film's feather-light heart tugging. Joe Banks is having the life sucked out of him at a dead-end job. Miserable in his gray surroundings with stark fluorescent lighting, Joe dreams of being brave again. A visit to the doctor reveals that he has a "brain cloud." It's fatal, but he'll be fine for a few more months. An eccentric millionaire, Samuel Harvey Graynamore (Lloyd Bridges), hears of Joe's predicament and comes to him with a proposal: The people of the Pacific island of Waponi Woo need a human sacrifice to appease their gods. Why not live like a king for a few weeks, then throw yourself into a volcano? (Graynamore needs a sacrificial victim to offer in exchange for permission to mine the island for a rare mineral.) Joe accepts Graynamore's lavish proposal and on his journey meets three romantic possibilities (all played by Ryan). Joe embraces life; so does the movie. It's packed with smile-inducing supporting performances by Bridges, Ossie Davis, Robert Stack, and Dan Hedaya; playful songs ("Sixteen Tons," "Ol' Man River," Presley's version of "Blue Moon"); and amusing scenes (such as Joe buying luggage). Add the daring, imaginative production design of Bo Welch (Edward Scissorhands), Hanks and Ryan's chemistry, and Georges Delerue's romantic music and you have a film to fall for.
(snip)
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00005Y71F/ref=ase_schpydurxradi-20/102-6784125-5346549?v=glance&s=d

[AlienGirl]

43. The "If You Want to See a Volcano, You Can!" law

http://www.thevoicestellyoutovote.com/volcano.html

It's just common sense, people! :silly:

Tucker

[nolabels]

44. The traffic cones, I will never view Toy Story the same way again

http://www.the-reel-mccoy.com/movies/1999/toystory2.html

Btw I thought it was rated "G"

[RandomKoolzip]

36. "Proof?!" When have fundies ever valued "proof?"

I thought "Faith" was more important to them.

[Oreegone]

37. Look out everybody

God is having her period and she is pissed.

[HuckleB]

38. "Historicity?"

is this a distant relation of the * clan?

Dang, but it looks like some reporters finally got bored with standing around, staring at the mountain.

Yeah, I know it's actually a word, but do you really think this guy is actually aware of that?

[0rganism]

45. Hell yeah, "Historicity," it's YHWH's answer to Satanic secular History!

Ask an historician, he'll tell you about the historicical messages sent to him by the One True God.

Daemonic Duck!

[Zorra]

41. I know the absolute truth.

And I'll sell it to you for $100,099.99 + tax.

Partial truth half-price.

Closed Mondays.

[GoneOffShore]

46. Well if St. Helens blows

he'll have a chance to see evolution in action, especially as the lava flows over his feet.