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floda Donating Member (296 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-05-04 06:51 PM
Original message
Iraq Survey Group to concede defeat in search for WMD
06 October 2004


The Iraq Survey Group is expected to report today that it has found no evidence of chemical, biological or nuclear weapons in post-war Iraq.

Charles Duelfer, the chief UN arms inspector in Iraq, is due to present the findings in a 1,500-page report to Congress.

He is expected to conclude that Iraq had neither weapons of mass destruction, nor significant WMD production programmes at the time of the invasion. However, he will assert that Saddam Hussein had plans to produce weapons once UN sanctions were lifted, according to US officials.

The verdict of Mr Duelfer, who will present the findings to the Senate Armed Services Committee, has been widely anticipated since the resignation of David Kay, the former head of the Iraq Survey Group, in January. When he stepped down, Mr Kay voiced serious concerns about allegations of weapons stockpiles. "We were probably all wrong about whether Iraq had stockpiles of nuclear, chemical or biological weapons," he said.

more...

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/story.jsp?story=569239
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-05-04 06:54 PM
Response to Original message
1. Okie dokie, so once again what was the official reason for
this war?

In other words, what was the Casus Belli?

Oh yeah the SL of WMDs, that we were going to trip over around Tikrit.

This (in case anybody else wonders) makes this war ilegal.... not that we did not know this already folks... but this is what people have to face now. THIS WAR is ilegal, and our kids are dying IN AN ILEGAL WAR, started by men who got a hard on, but have never truly served (except Powell, but he forgot the lessons)
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Mokito Donating Member (710 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-06-04 09:37 AM
Response to Reply #1
16. Official reason: Weapons of mass destruction related program activities
Or something like that.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-05-04 06:58 PM
Response to Original message
2. Maybe this will shut those koolaid drinkers up..
who insist they will be found!!
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liberalmuse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-05-04 07:01 PM
Response to Original message
3. To be honest...
while I never bought the WMD BS, I thought they'd at least find some old, degraded chemical weapons. Even so, those are NOT WMD's. Only nuclear weapons can be labeled as 'WMD's'. What happened to 'the smoking gun in the form of a mushroom cloud' so ominously touted by Bush, Cheney, Rummy and Condi? These fuckers need to be tried at the Hague.
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cal04 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-06-04 12:10 AM
Response to Original message
4. Report Discounts Iraqi Arms Threat
Report Discounts Iraqi Arms Threat
U.S. Inspector Says Hussein Lacked Means

The government's most definitive account of Iraq's arms programs, to be released today, will show that Saddam Hussein posed a diminishing threat at the time the United States invaded and did not possess, or have concrete plans to develop, nuclear, chemical or biological weapons, U.S. officials said yesterday.

The officials said that the 1,000-page report by Charles A. Duelfer, the chief U.S. weapons inspector in Iraq, concluded that Hussein had the desire but not the means to produce unconventional weapons that could threaten his neighbors or the West. President Bush has continued to assert in his campaign stump speech that Iraq had posed "a gathering threat."

The officials said Duelfer, an experienced former United Nations weapons inspector, found that the state of Hussein's weapons-development programs and knowledge base was less advanced in 2003, when the war began, than it was in 1998, when international inspectors left Iraq."They have not found anything yet," said one U.S. official who had been briefed on the report.

A senior U.S. government official said that the report includes comments Hussein made to debriefers after his capture that bolster administration assertions, including his statement that his past possession of weapons of mass destruction "was one of the reasons he had survived so long." He also maintained such weapons saved his government by halting Iranian ground offensives during the Iran-Iraq war and deterred coalition forces from pressing on to Baghdad during the 1991 Persian Gulf War, the official said.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A9790-2004Oct5?language=printer
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ChrisK Donating Member (216 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-06-04 07:37 AM
Response to Reply #4
12. How sad is it that there is more truth in what a man like Saddam says
then our own President when it came to what he had...he seems to be saying in a nutshell in the Washington Post article is we tried to keep the facade up that we were still stock piling chemical and biological weapons to keep our people and our government safe...How truly sad.
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wellst0nev0ter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-06-04 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #4
21. Operative Words: DIMINISHING THREAT
repeat that over and over and over again until the brain-dead public actually gets it.
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The_Casual_Observer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-06-04 01:12 AM
Response to Original message
5. On the basis of this one thing * ought to resign in disgrace.
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kskiska Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-06-04 01:17 AM
Response to Original message
6. Hans Blix must be laughing his head off.
"I told you so."
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truthisfreedom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-06-04 01:19 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. i think he's crying his eyes out.
how many needless deaths?
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Joefess Donating Member (150 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-06-04 01:44 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. Anyone remember...
Anyone remember when this administration and many news organizations ran Scott Ritter's name through the mud?

At the end of the day Scott Ritter was right.
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Red Fox Donating Member (83 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-06-04 01:48 AM
Response to Reply #6
9. Everybody NOT in the GREAT COALITION
Can say "I told you so".

Only your admin and 50% of the population didn't get it.
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underpants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-06-04 10:04 AM
Response to Reply #6
18. Blix-"Just because you have a 'Beward of Dog' sign in your front yard...
does not mean that you necessarily have a dog"

Great quote from Blix.
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Albertan Donating Member (13 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-06-04 01:57 AM
Response to Original message
10. I know where the WMDs are.
They're in and around the area north, east, south and west of Baghdad.
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Mokito Donating Member (710 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-06-04 09:43 AM
Response to Reply #10
17. Well, North Korea lies in the area east of Baghdad
:eyes:
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Englander Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-06-04 07:23 AM
Response to Original message
11. Kick
:dem:
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goodboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-06-04 07:42 AM
Response to Original message
13. Some people I think will probably still believe the WMD"s are there
Edited on Wed Oct-06-04 07:44 AM by goodboy
somewhere. But we oughta be able to use this against bush on Friday.


on edit: What do you all think this will do, if anything, to Tony Blair?
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Briar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-06-04 09:26 AM
Response to Original message
14. Warning! Warning! Watch for spin!
They've been carefully leaking sections of the report that say Saddam was thinking about starting up the weapons programmes again - and there's your causus belli for pre-emptive war. Thought crime.

Meanwhile, a recent poll (on CNN I believe) apparently says that over 30 per cent of Americans think Saddam was personally responsible for 9/11, so I don't suppose the light of reason is ever going to dawn in a substantial minority of minds before November.
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Petrodollar Warfare Donating Member (628 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-06-04 09:36 AM
Response to Original message
15. "Why, of course, the people don't want war....That is understood."
Edited on Wed Oct-06-04 09:59 AM by GoreN4
Leo Strauss 1899-1973:
Philosophical Father of the Neoconservatives

"Because mankind is intrinsically wicked, he has to be governed…Such governance can only be established, however, when men are united - and they can only be united against other people."

“those who are fit to rule are those who realize there is no morality and that there is only one natural right - the right of the superior to rule over the inferior…The people are told what they need to know and no more."

- Dr. Leo Strauss, thoughts on government and the wise elites need for secrecy, Natural Right and History and Persecution and the Art of Writing


"Everybody sees what you appear to be, few feel what you are, and those few will not dare to oppose themselves to the many, who have the majesty of the state to defend them. . . . Let a prince therefore aim at conquering and maintaining the state, and the means will always be judged honourable and praised by everyone, for the vulgar is always taken by appearances..."

-Niccolo Machiavelli, The Prince, 1513


"In order to achieve the most noble accomplishments, the leader may have to ‘enter into evil.’ This is the chilling insight that has made Machiavelli so feared, admired, and challenging. It is why we are drawn to him still…"

- Michael A. Ledeen, leading neoconservative at the American Enterprise Institute (AEI), advisor to President Bush’s political stragist, Karl Rove, as quoted in his book, Machiavelli on Modern Leadership: Why Machiavelli's Iron Rules Are as Timely and Important Today as Five Centuries Ago, 1999


It is widely acknowledged the Bush administration was not particularly honest about the reasons it gave to the public for the invasion of Iraq. Leading Neoconservative commentator Michael Ledeen has often argued the legitimacy of Machiavelli’s teaching that leaders must unabashedly engage in deception, even if the leaders commit “evil” acts in order to accomplish their goals. Paul Wolfowitz, former deputy secretary of defense, acknowledged the “intelligence” used to justify the war was always “murky” and that the main rationale for the Iraq war, “disarming” Saddam of a supposed reconstituted WMD program, was in essence a “bureaucratic” decison.

His neoconservative colleague, Richard Perle also admitted the war was in violation of International Law, but nonetheless it was the “right thing” to do. This philosophy of governance openly advocates an “end justifies the means” mentality, including deception, violence, and the abrogation of International Law. Many Americans have difficulty believing the Bush administration purposely engaged in a campaign of diversion and deception to convince the public that an invasion of Iraq was urgent and necessary. While these facts are disconcerting, they are not surprising given the self-proclaimed philosophical underpinning of neoconservative ideology.

####

Build-up to Gulf War II:
Saddam Hussein and Weapons of Mass Destruction

“The sanctions exist ... for the purpose of keeping in check Saddam Hussein's ambitions toward developing weapons of mass destruction. ... And frankly they have worked. He has not developed any significant capability with respect to weapons of mass destruction. He is unable to project conventional power against his neighbors.”

- Secretary Of State Colin Powell, February 24, 2001

“Our conservative estimate is that Iraq today has a stockpile of between 100 and 500 tons of chemical weapons agent. That is enough agent to fill 16,000 battlefield rockets. Even the low end of 100 tons of agent would enable Saddam Hussein to cause mass casualties across more than 100 square miles of territory, an area nearly five times the size of Manhattan.”

- Secretary Of State Colin Powell, February 5, 2003

"Simply stated, there is no doubt that Saddam Hussein now has weapons of mass destruction."

- Vice President Dick Cheney, August 26, 2002


“Intelligence leaves no doubt that Iraq continues to possess and conceal lethal weapons.”

- President George W. Bush, March 17, 2003


“We are asked to accept Saddam decided to destroy those weapons…. I say that such a claim is palpably absurd.”

- Prime Minister Tony Blair, March 18, 2003


Goering: "Why of course, the people don't want war...That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy or a fascist dictatorship or a Parliament or a Communist dictatorship."

Gilbert: "There is one difference. In a democracy, the people have some say in the matter through their elected representatives, and in the United States only Congress can declare wars."

Goering: "Oh, that is all well and good, but, voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country."

- Gustave Gilbert, a German-speaking intelligence officer and psychologist, who interviewed and recorded the observations of Hermann Goering, Nazi Reichsmarshal and Luftwaffe chief, during the Nuremberg War Criminal trials, April 18, 1946


Throughout modern history, the propaganda tactics for promoting war as bluntly revealed by an unrepentant Hermann Goering are just as effective today as they were during the 20th century. When the press becomes subservient to the desires of political leaders, even modern democracies such as the U.S. and U.K. are not immune to the historical effectiveness of leaders who use propaganda to bring a frightful population "to the bidding of the leaders.”

Regarding Iraq, the effective utilization of propaganda techniques by the Bush administration was especially critical given their unique task of justifying the United States first ever “preventative war." The nefarious mechanisms behind these transparent propaganda methods will be analyzed in this chapter. However, well before this campaign, it is clear that invading Iraq was a priority from the beginning.

Former Secretary of the Treasury Paul O’Neill recalled the during the very first National Security of the Bush administration meeting that toppling Saddam Hussein was the focus of the administration. The book, The Price of Loyalty, reveals that toppling Saddam Hussein at the top of the national security agenda just 10 days after George W. Bush was sworn in as the 43rd President, a full even eight months before the September 11th terrorists attacks.

This insistence on establishing U.S. military bases and negating foreign oil exploration contracts in Iraq is not surprising given the goals articulated by the Project for a New American Century (PNAC) think tank. Moreover, the technical data showing the imminence of global Peak Oil was certainly available to the CIA analysts, and by extension the top U.S. policy-makers.

From the Roman Empire to today, people have long suffered when political leaders espouse a philosophy that political order is stable only if the people are united by an external threat. The Straussian philosophy of governance requires the people to be united under fear and hatred. In order to achieve such goals a propaganda campaign to instill fear would need to be launched. In essence, the justification for invading Iraq was a coordinated and transparent pack of fabrications and deceptions - designed to create the requisite societal fear.

The goal of course was apparently to create a broad “external threat” – even if such a threat did not exist. Mr. Luti and members of the OSP vigorously pursued this challenge during the autumn of 2002, and succeeded brilliantly. To date, no professional intelligence analysts in the CIA, DIA, MI5 or MI6 have provided credible evidence linking Saddam Hussein to Osama bin Laden, Al Qaeda or to the September 11th attack. Much of the disinformation prorogated by these individuals was discernibly deceptive before the war, and now the evidence of a conspiracy is simply irrefutable.

In essence, the main rationales for the Iraq war were developed by a rather unprecedented U.S. government conspiracy perpetrated by a relatively small number of radical neoconservatives in the “Iraqi Intelligence cell,” the OSP, as well of as few Iraqi exiles in the INC. In addition, this propaganda campaign was facilitated by far right news sources such as The Weekly Standard, National Review, the editorial page of The Wall Street Journal, and Fox News.

Convincing the Americans people of the need for a preemptive invasion of Iraq required the emergence of an external threat as required by Straussian ideology. The manufacturing of an effective threat appears to have involved numerous references to the terms “smoking gun” and "mushroom cloud.” Repeatedly over and over again these images were stated by U.S. government officials. After all, according to Strauss and neoconservative ideology the masses could only “be inspired to rise above their brutish existence only by fear of impending death or catastrophe.”

In view of the Straussian philosophy of governance,the operations of the OSP and Douglas Feith’s intelligence “cell” were not “intelligence failures” at all, but a remarkable success in uniting the “vulgar masses” with “fear of impending death or catastrophe.”

Straussian Necessity of an External Threat: Mushroom Clouds to Inspire the Vulgar Masses

"Many of us are convinced that Saddam will acquire nuclear weapons fairly soon. Just how soon we cannot gauge."
-Vice President Cheney, August 26, 2002

“The problem here is that there will always be some uncertainty about how quickly he can acquire nuclear weapons, but we don't want the smoking gun to be a mushroom cloud."

- National Security Advisor Condoleezza Rice, September 8, 2002


“Facing clear evidence of peril, we cannot wait for the final proof...the smoking gun.... that could come in the form of a mushroom cloud."

- President George W. Bush, October 7, 2002


An Iraqi nuclear weapon might bring "the sight of the first mushroom cloud on one of the major population centers on this planet."

- General Tommy Franks, November 12, 2002


"We know he's been absolutely devoted to trying to acquire nuclear weapons, and we believe he has, in fact, reconstituted nuclear weapons."

- Vice President Cheney, March 16, 2003


“I don’t believe anyone that I know in the administration ever said that Iraq had nuclear weapons.”

- Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, May 14, 2003


"Yeah, I did misspeak .... We never had any evidence that he had acquired a nuclear weapon."

- Vice President Cheney, September 14, 2003


The last quote is quite an understatement considering that Vice President Cheney was the instrumental government official to first suggest that Saddam Hussein was acquiring nuclear weapons. The seven month period between August of 2002 to just three days before the war was a remarkably era in which senior members of the Executive Brach and one of the top U.S. military commanders appeared to have engaged in a coordinated attempt to promulgate massive societal fear. The repeatedly references to “reconstituted nuclear weapons” and visions of “mushroom clouds” was a very effective fear tactic to fill the imagination of Americans with “fear of impending death or catastrophe.”

Nonetheless, it one can overcome the thought-paralyzing effects of this type of fear invoking propaganda and critically examine the publicly available facts, it was always doubtful that Saddam could have reconstituted an undetected nuclear weapons program under the U.N. sanctions. Likewise, Saddam was not likely to give any WMD weapons to Islamic terrorists. Saddam was a survivor, not a martyr.
Despite inherit logical contradictions of an unprovoked WMD attack by the Iraqi government, in August 2002 Vice President Cheney first introduced the notion that Saddam Hussein would acquire nuclear weapons “fairly soon.”

Not coincidentally, on the one-year anniversary of the September 11, 2001 attacks, Condoleezza Rice famously remarked the first “smoking gun” could be a “mushroom cloud.” Introducing the terrifying image of a mushroom cloud upon the America psyche when our emotions were heightened by the first year anniversary of 9/11 was a highly effective method for instilling generalized fear. Indeed, a month later President Bush reiterated that the “final proof” of Saddam’s nuclear program could be a “mushroom cloud.”

The coup de grace to “inspire” the American people that an imminent “external threat” existed from a nuclear armed Saddam was provided by General Tommy Franks and Donald Rumsfeld. In November 2002 Franks warned that inaction might produce the “first mushroom cloud on one of the major population centers on this planet.” days later on November 14th Donald Rumsfeld stated: “Within a week, or a month, Saddam could give his WMD to al-Qa'ida,” This extraordinary, fear-inspiring propaganda campaign vividly illustrates the power welded by a few government officials who can easily bring the people “to the bidding of the leaders.”
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Roland99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-06-04 10:43 AM
Response to Original message
19. A response from a Bush supporter
quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Based in part on interviews with Saddam, the report from the CIA-led Iraq Survey
Group also will conclude that he wanted to acquire weapons of mass destruction
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The report also will find that Iraq made strenuous efforts to evade U.N. sanctions
and pursued an aggressive strategy to try to get them lifted, which included subverting
the U.N. oil-for-food program, the senior administration officials said -- adding that the
report will name names of individuals and countries that illegally did business with
Saddam.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
the report from the Iraq Survey Group will cite evidence that Iraq's intelligence agency
used clandestine labs to manufacture small quantities of biological weapons in recent years,
although probably for use in assassinations, rather than mass casualty attacks.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Once U.N. sanctions were lifted, Saddam intended to reconstitute his WMD programs,
the report will conclude, according to the senior administration officials. To that end, the Iraqi
dictator bought illegal materials to better position the regime to restart those programs, the
report will say.
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Mountainman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-06-04 10:49 AM
Response to Original message
20. Does this blow the idea that the world is safer since Saddam is in jail?
If he was no threat to us he was no threat to the rest of the world.

The 800lb gorilla in the room is that this was a war for oil! Say it loud! 1061 American soldiers dead and no reason but greed on the part of Bush supporters.

Koolaid anyone? Oh yeah, freepers still drinking it up.
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mike_c Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-06-04 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #20
25. I'm waiting for someone to ask "Safer from what?"
Holding my breath until I get an answer.... :mad:
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mike_c Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-06-04 02:07 PM
Response to Original message
22. this also undermines the last shred of justification for the IWR....
Edited on Wed Oct-06-04 02:42 PM by mike_c
If Hussein was disarmed long before Oct. 2002, no "additional threat of force" was necessary to insure his compliance with the U.N. mandate, since he had already long since complied. UNSCOM would have arrived at the same conclusion as this latest report without nearly as much prevarication as the U.S. teams, who REALLY REALLY wanted to find WMDs, and individuals such as Scott Ritter had already reported that Iraq had no stockpiles of banned weapons and no active development programs since the mid-1990s.

The invasion of Iraq was an international war crime, founded upon lies fed to the American people by the President, a significant proportion of the congressional leadership, and by news media eager for a wartime ratings boost. The U.S. economy has been given a body-blow, nearly 1100 U.S. service persons killed in combat and 16,000 maimed, tens of thousands of innocent Iraqi civilians killed, and the middle east destablized for the foreseeable future. All for lies, greed, and the corrupt exercise of power.

on edit: anyone from the Kerry campaign listening? Kerry has stated repeatedly that "the President needed congressional authority to invade Iraq" in order to apply pressure to Saddam Hussein. Pressure for what? He'd already disrmed and he'd already readmitted the U.N. inspectors unconditionally. No, I think the President needed that resolution for precisely the opposite reason-- to prevent the world from learning the truth about Iraq in time to forestall the planned invasion.
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dennis4868 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-06-04 02:11 PM
Response to Original message
23. mzkes no sense....
they say Sadaam had no WMD but they were able to get into Sadaam's head and they know for sure that if sanctions were lifted Sadaam would restart his nuclear weapons program...makes no sense!
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mike_c Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-06-04 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. they were either utterly wrong about the weapons or they lied...
...so now we're supposed to believe that they "know" what Saddam Hussein would have done in an alternate universe? Sheesh.
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dennis4868 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-06-04 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. Of course Bush and his thugs....
knew that Sadaam was no threat...they were getting warning after warning from all of the intelligence agencies, including the CIA, DIA, DOE, and INR.....they just ignored them and continued with their lies.
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ProfessorGAC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-06-04 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #23
28. Well, Duh!
What about the whole Iraq thing that came from these cretins has made sense? Don't start looking for things to make sense now. You'll be looking forever.
The Professor
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bluedog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-06-04 02:27 PM
Response to Original message
27. War Crimes!!

Thousands of Iraqi kids are dead or crippled today because of Bush's decision.

these kids would be alive today, playing at home or going to school. Sadly, America has blood on its hands for the mistakes of Bush.

will The United States ever be believed again........
this is terrible for all of us..........

bush has destroyed our reputation in the world .invaded a country through a guise of WMDS.....just to revenge his father.........I weep for us if bush gets elected.......
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moondust Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-06-04 03:07 PM
Response to Original message
29. Saddam's "intentions".
Reading the tea leaves to determine Saddam Hussein's intentions is more suspect than what Republicans once loved to deride as "divining the intentions" of Palm Beach voters. But they're going to use it as a justification for their invasion anyway.

Anybody can sit at home and make up some official-looking documents that "show" you want to buy enriched uranium, etc. You might even pass it around to try to impress your staff (and yourself). But that doesn't mean you ever had any hopes or intentions of actually getting it.

Saddam's so-called "intentions" it would seem may just as easily if not more likely be make-work for his bureaucracy and idle boasting and saber rattling designed to help intimidate any potential rivals and keep a firm grip on power.
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FlemingsGhost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-06-04 03:12 PM
Response to Original message
30. I expect apologies from the hos and patridiots any time now.
Yup ... any time, now.

:eyes:
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Moderator DU Moderator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-06-04 03:15 PM
Response to Original message
31. Note from Moderator
The report is now out. Try to post future discussions in this thread
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x887558

( not locking yet :-) )
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