The war's littlest victim (Depleted Uranium)

[RamboLiberal]

http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/236934p-203326c.html

In early September 2003, Army National Guard Spec. Gerard Darren Matthew was sent home from Iraq, stricken by a sudden illness.
One side of Matthew's face would swell up each morning. He had constant migraine headaches, blurred vision, blackouts and a burning sensation whenever he urinated.

The Army transferred him to Walter Reed Army Medical Center in Washington for further tests, but doctors there could not explain what was wrong.

Shortly after his return, his wife, Janice, became pregnant. On June 29, she gave birth to a baby girl, Victoria Claudette.

The baby was missing three fingers and most of her right hand.

Think how the Iraqis suffer from this!

[central scrutinizer]

1. Christian, compassionate conservatism in action

nfm

[anarchy1999]

62. I met a mom on Thursday who is running for a seat in the Texas

legislature. Her son is incapacitated, in a wheel chair, and no one can tell them why. He is a Vet of Gulf War I. Her name is Ruby Woolridge and her heart is breaking for what this country is not doing for our Vets. It took her three plus years to get any help from the VA.

[Name removed]

2. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[OneBlueSky]

3. DU may not be a problem in and of itself, but . . .

when you put it in bombs, it disintigrates into a fine radioactive dust that blankets the countryside and is inhaled by anyone who comes in contact with it . . . Iraqis, Americans, Brits, Poles, doesn't matter . . . and when you inhale radioactive dust, your body doesn't like it . . . matter of fact, it makes you very, very sick . . . and can even kill you . . . so even though you could probably handle a slab of the stuff without much effect, inhaling the dust that's created when it's used in weapons is another matter altogether . . .

[RamboLiberal]

5. It may or may not be the DU - but something made a lot of sick troops

back in GW1 and now they're getting sick again. GW1 troops also seemed to have a lot of sick kids to my recollection. Pentagon stonewalled them a lot just like they did with Agent Orange. And wasn't Kerry a Senator who fought for the Agent Orange vets? Who will fight for the sick GW vets? Not the most of the Repugs and Bushies, hell they'll cut their benefits.

We're also going to see a lot of sick Iraqis.

[knowbody0]

6. one partical of the dust

inhaled is the equivalant of having an xray every day for the rest of your life. -- our legacy in iraq sucks

[NickB79]

11. Link please?

That's probably one of the most extreme claims I've ever heard about DU contamination. Do you have a link supporting this claim? If what you say were true, DU would be more radioactive than almost any other substance known. For reference, the faster a radioactive substance decays is a general indicator of just how radioactive it is, since radiation is produced when an atom emits energy as it converts to a different element. As it stands, DU has a half-life of 4.5 billion years, meaning it is very, very slow to release radiation. Plutonium, on the other hand, has a half life of 6560-24100 yrs, depending on the isotope, and is highly toxic because it emits large amounts of radiation.

[snowFLAKE]

17. EGAD, Don't make DU'ers do Math about DU!!

A 2.5 micron particle of DU has a mass of .145 ng, and according to this site:

http://www.antenna.nl/wise/uranium/rdcu.html

Provides an exposure of 103.7 x 10(-15) Sv per year upon ingestion/inhalation.

A typical single X-ray provides an exposure of about 0.5 x 10(-3) Sv


Consequently, for a year's worth of X-rays - something like 1.76 TRILLION particles of DU would be necessary.

But what's 12 orders of magnitude amongst friends?


And About Plutonium - It's not THAT BAD!!

All isotopes and compounds of plutonium are toxic and radioactive. While plutonium is sometimes described in media reports as "the most toxic substance known to man", there is general agreement among experts in the field that this is incorrect. As of 2003, there has yet to be a single human death officially attributed to plutonium exposure. Naturally-occurring radium is about 200 times more radiotoxic than plutonium, and some organic toxins like botulism toxin are still more toxic. Botulism toxin, in particular, has a lethal dose in the hundreds of pg per kg, far less than the quantity of plutonium that poses a significant cancer risk. In addition, beta and gamma emitters (including the C-14 and K-40 in nearly all food) can cause cancer on casual contact, which alpha emitters cannot.

Orally, plutonium is less toxic than several common substances, including caffeine, acetominopnen, some vitamins, (pseudo)ephedrine, all narcotic pain killers (including codeine) and any number of plants and fungi. It is perhaps somewhat more toxic than absolute alcohol, but less so than tobacco and most illegal drugs (some such as LSD and marijuana are not or barely toxic). As such, it is debatable whether plutonium should even be classified as a poison.

Other substances including ricin, botulinum toxin and tetanus toxin are fatal in doses of (sometimes far) under one milligram, and others (the nerve agents, nutmeg by injection, the amanita toxin, the fugu toxin) are in the range of a few milligrams. As such, plutonium is not unusual in terms of toxicity, even by inhalation. In addition, those substances are fatal in hours to days, whereas plutonium (and other cancer-causing radioactives) give an increased chance of illness decades in the future. Considerably larger amounts may cause acute radiation poisoning and death if ingested or inhaled; however, so far, no human is known to have died because of inhaling or ingesting plutonium and many people have measurable amounts of plutonium in their bodies.

http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Plutonium

[SidDithers]

31. Hehe, thanks for saving me the trouble, snowFLAKE...

It's been a few years since I've thought about calculations like that.

:toast:

Sid

[SidDithers]

30. LMAO. Worst. Claim. Ever.

Perhaps you're thinking of the wrong material?

Sid

[NickB79]

15. It's not the radioactivity that's a problem

DU produces very little radiation compared to most other radioactive materials. It's extremely long half-life (4.5 billion yrs) should be a red flag to anyone claiming it is highly radioactive, because a highly radioactive material has a very short half-life. It is, however, a toxic heavy metal, and can cause serious long-term health problems and birth defects through this mode of action. Think of it as the nastier big brother of lead and mercury. You would die of the heavy metal poisoning of DU long, long before you would die from it's radioactivity.

This myth that DU is dangerous because of it's radiological properties, rather than due to it's heavy metal contamination properties, really hurts the cause of removing DU from military usage IMO. Instead of focusing on how it really kills, people rely on the scare factor of the radiation boogyman. It gets support for the anti-DU cause, but not in a truthful way, which I feel is wrong.

[Fridays Child]

20. Thank you for that information. It makes sense.

[DulceDecorum]

21. Handle DU and DIE

The factories making the bombs are toxic to the point that production in the US is being threatend because the workers keep dying.
Even people who merely load the bombs onto trucks or onto the bombers are developing illnesses.

http://www.life.com/Life/essay/gulfwar/gulf01.html

Hanson’s cherubic blond son was born in 1992 with a hole in his heart, a hemophilia-like blood condition, underdeveloped ear canals, and hands and feet attached to twisted stumps. The bright 3-year-old became the “unofficial poster boy of the Gulf war babies,” after articles on his condition appeared in both People and Life magazines.
Along with 700,000 other U.S. soldiers (as well as troops from the UK and Arab countries), Jayce’s father spent nearly two months fighting in what American nuclear scientist Leonard Dietz called “the most toxic war in the history of mankind.”
Following their return home, Gulf war veterans have fathered children with devastating birth defects. “While there is, as yet, no absolute proof that Gulf vets’ babies are especially prone to congenital problems,” the Life article concluded, “patterns of defects have begun to emerge—patterns unlikely to result from chance alone.”
Three-year-old Omar, for instance, has an unusual type of cancer which first attacked his kidneys and is now destroying his brain and nervous system. The Iraqi child’s head is enlarged to twice its normal size, his face swollen unrecognizably out of shape, and he is blind, according to peace activists who visited Iraq in early January of this year.
<snip>
In the Feb. 27 New York Review of Books Charles Simic, reviewing German author W.G. Sebald’s recently translated book, On the Natural History of Destruction, described U.S. plans for an attack on Iraq:“The Pentagon’s current battle plan, according to CBS, calls for a launch of 300 to 400 cruise missiles on the first day,” he wrote, “which is more than were launched during the entire 40 days of the Gulf war, with the same number to follow the next day and presumably the day after.”
Simic also quoted Harlan Ullman, one of the authors of the “Shock and Awe” strategy: “We want them to quit,” Ullman said. “So you have this simultaneous effect, rather like the nuclear weapons at Hiroshima, not taking days or weeks but minutes.”
http://www.washington-report.org/archives/april03/0304028.html

Depleted Uranium is pure malevolent evil.
Touch it and die.

[Bridget Burke]

8. I can't recall the details.

Perhaps you can fill us in?

As you've called yourself a "republican voter" I'm sure that many would disagree with you.

[DulceDecorum]

14. Depleted Uranium IS a HUGE problem

and I am sickened by the idea that you do not acknowledge this.

May ALL those who defend the use of Depleted uranium be held to account in a court presided over by
DulceDecorum.

[anarchy1999]

22. Depleted uranium: Dirty bombs, dirty missiles, dirty bullets

Not that you would ever really do your homework, but here is report from a whistleblower with plenty of research. Geoscientist from Livermore Nuclear Weapons Lab.

A death sentence here and abroad

Saturday 21st August 2004 :
By Leuren Moret

“Military men are just dumb stupid animals to be used as pawns in foreign policy.” - Henry Kissinger, quoted in “Kiss the Boys Goodbye: How the United States Betrayed Its Own POW’s in Vietnam”

Vietnam was a chemical war for oil, permanently contaminating large regions and countries downriver with Agent Orange, and environmentally the most devastating war in world history. But since 1991, the U.S. has staged four nuclear wars using depleted uranium weaponry, which, like Agent Orange, meets the U.S. government definition of Weapons of Mass Destruction. Vast regions in the Middle East and Central Asia have been permanently contaminated with radiation.

And what about our soldiers? Terry Jemison of the Department of Veterans Affairs reported this week to the American Free Press that “Gulf-era veterans” now on medical disability since 1991 number 518,739, with only 7,035 reported wounded in Iraq in that same 14-year period.

They brought it home

Not only were soldiers exposed to DU on and off the battlefields, but they brought it home. DU in the semen of soldiers internally contaminated their wives, partners and girlfriends. Tragically, some women in their 20s and 30s who were sexual partners of exposed soldiers developed endometriosis and were forced to have hysterectomies because of health problems.

In a group of 251 soldiers from a study group in Mississippi who had all had normal babies before the Gulf War, 67 percent of their post-war babies were born with severe birth defects. They were born with missing legs, arms, organs or eyes or had immune system and blood diseases. In some veterans’ families now, the only normal or healthy members of the family are the children born before the war.

The Department of Veterans Affairs has stated that they do not keep records of birth defects occurring in families of veterans.

snip to end:

A Japanese professor, Dr. K. Yagasaki, has calculated that 800 tons of DU is the atomicity equivalent of 83,000 Nagasaki bombs. The U.S. has used more DU since 1991 than the atomicity equivalent of 400,000 Nagasaki bombs. Four nuclear wars indeed, and 10 times the amount of radiation released into the atmosphere from atmospheric testing!

No wonder our soldiers, their families and the people of the Middle East, Yugoslavia and Central Asia are sick. But as Henry Kissinger said after Vietnam when our soldiers came home ill from Agent Orange, “Military men are just dumb stupid animals to be used for foreign policy.”

Unfortunately, more and more of those soldiers are men and women with brown skin. And unfortunately, the DU radioactive dust will be carried around the world and deposited in our environments just as the “smog of war” from the 1991 Gulf War was found in deposits in South America, the Himalayas and Hawaii.

In June 2003, the World Health Organization announced in a press release that global cancer rates will increase 50 percent by 2020. What else do they know that they aren’t telling us? I know that depleted uranium is a death sentence ... for all of us. We will all die in silent ways.

To learn more

Sources used in this story that readers are encouraged to consult:

http://bellaciao.org/en/article.php3?id_article=2887

Leuren Moret is a geoscientist who has worked around the world on radiation issues, educating citizens, the media, members of parliaments and Congress and other officials. She became a whistleblower in 1991 at the Livermore Nuclear Weapons Lab after experiencing major science fraud on the Yucca Mountain Project. An environmental commissioner in the City of Berkeley, she can be reached at [email protected].

http://www.sfbayview.com/081804/Depleteduranium081804.shtml

Then if this isn't enough, check out Doug Rokke, (I was privileged to meet him in person, he is also military, in charge of cleaning up DU after 1st Gulf War).

Also ProjectCensored.org top 25 for this year.

http://www.projectcensored.org/publications/2005/4.html

If all this isn't enough, maybe you might want to go to work for the Pentagon in PR, better yet, enlist and go on over and help, since there is nothing to fear.

[anarchy1999]

26. Here's another special one, with a picture! The Littlest Echo

http://www.rense.com/general43/echo.htm
for the picture go to above link

snip:
The Uranium Medical Research Center reports that urine samples of Afghans show the highest level of uranium in the world! Afghans (not in the news) are reported dying, demonstrating similar symptoms as the Gulf War Syndrome. Dead birds, still perched in trees, are found partially melted, with blood oozing from their mouths. Such scenes are now being reported in Iraq, albeit on a wider scale. As in Afghanistan the genetic future of Iraqis is destroyed. And the world slumbers. Akira Tashiro reports in his book, Discounted Causalities, of Gulf War I veterans returning home only to find that intercourse with their wives leave their vaginal areas burning and without sensation and their semen contaminated with Depleted Uranium. In a study of 251 Gulf War I veterans who prior to Iraq had normal children, 67% of their children born after their return were found physically, psychologically and/or mentally abnormal. Our Littlest Echo, will never throw a ball with his dad, ski down some slope, hike or go river rafting. He didn't chose to join the military but he's a war casualty just the same. They don't show these scenes on the Army Recruitment Bus that makes the rounds of high schools for new 'cannon fodder'. I doubt whether these busses are welcomed at the Haves private schools for their children. Rich children don't go to war----which if they did might sharply curtail our mad rush to annihilate.

[anarchy1999]

27. Dr. Doug Rokke, In his own words.

Pentagon - Depleted Uranium
No Health Risk
From Dr. Doug Rokke
3-15-3

The lies from DOD officials continue regarding the actual adverse health and environmental effects of uranium munitons use on the battlefield. The infamous Los Alamos directive that was issued to ensure the use of DU munitions no matter what will be followed until all of God's earth is contaminated. I WANT TO REPEAT tHIS AND MAKE IT VERY CLEAR. DU MUNITIONS MUST NOT BE USED! THEIR USE LEAVES A RADIAOCTIVE TOXIC MESS THAT CANNOT BE CLEANED UP. THERE STILL IS NO ADEQUATE MEDICAL CARE FOR URANIUM EXPOSURES.

THE USE OF DU MUNITIONS DURING WAR IS BY MY PROFESSIONAL AND PERSONAL OPINION; AS THE U.S. ARMY HEALTH PHYSICIST WHO WAS ORDERED BY THE PENTAGON AND GENERAL NORMAN SCWARTZKOPF BY NAME TO CLEAN UP THE MESS AND AS THE FORMER DEPARTMENT OF THE ARMY AND DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE DU PROJECT DIRECTOR; IS A CRIME AGAINST GOD AND HUMANITY.

The citizens of the world must hold each and every individual who shoots DU munitions guilty of war crimes!!!

DU HEALTH AND ENVIRONMENTAL HAZARD WARNINGS ORIGINATED WITHIN THOSE ARMY SCIENTISTS WHO STUDIED DU BEFORE THE WAR AND BY THOSE OF US WHO WERE TASKED TO CLEAN UP THE DU MESS AFTER THE WAR. THEY DID NOT COME FROM IRAQI OR ANY OTHER SOURCES.

PLEASE DISTRIBUTE THIS ALL OVER THE WORLD!

Dr. Doug Rokke 217-643-6205

DEPLETED URANIUM

By Dr. Doug Rokke, Major, USAR Former Gulf War I DU Team Health Physicist and DU Project Director

Gulf War I was the first significant use of DU in combat with at least 320 tons of DU munitions contamination left on the battlefield.

snip:

Verified DU exposure adverse health effects include: (a) Reactive airway disease, (b) neurological abnormalities, (c) kidney stones and chronic kidney pain, (d) rashes, (e) vision degradation, night vision losses, and catarcts (f) gum tissue problems, (g) lymphoma, (h) various forms of skin and organ cancer, (I) neuro-psychological disorders, (j) uranium in semen, (k) sexual dysfunction, and (l) birth defects in offspring.

Since the Gulf War, the cover-up of adverse health and environmental consequences has been the objective of U.S. Department of Defense officials so that they can always use DU in combat. The cover-up started with the infamous Los Alamos memorandum sent to our team in Saudi Arabia during March 1991.

snip to the end:

Today, all citizens of the world must raise a unified voice to ban the future use of depleted uranium munitions and force the leaders of those nations that have used depleted uranium munitions to recognize the immoral consequences of their actions, provide medical care to "all" DU casualties, and complete environmental remediation. And to cite a famous quotation: "AND A CHILD SHALL LEAD THEM". But if the children are sick or dead and the citizens of the world permit this to continue then there will not be a child who can fulfill the prophecy and lead us to peace.

for the rest of this essay go to:

http://www.rense.com/general35/nasdo.htm

[snowFLAKE]

28. Uh Oh - To maintain Your Credibility

I am sure you will wish to correct your Small Oversight of not listing the complete range of BAD THINGS that Major Rokke claims to be exposed to, for example, in This Article:

http://sftimes.editthispage.com/stories/storyReader$61

He details other Seemingly Unhealthy conditions that His Unit encountered in the first Gulf War, these include:

Anthrax and Botulinum vaccinations (of which some batches were contaminated with squalene)

Ingestion of PB tablets (an nerve gas antidote)

Contaminated food (possibly due to sabotage with biological agents)

Water sanitation issues that prevented bathing

Wxposure to incomplete combustion of inorganic and organic compounds from oil well fires

Physical injuries


Could any of these factors contribute to Gulf War Syndrome?

But perhaps it's easier to keep our heads buried in the sand and go on living in a simplistic black and white world??

[txindy]

32. Another du link to read with our DU mentioned

http://www.onlinejournal.com/Special_Reports/071304Nichols/071304nichols.html

Democratic Underground is mentioned in the writer's credits, too.

Fascinating article. And chilling.

[snowFLAKE]

38. Indeed - that is a Fascinating and Chilling Article

One of My All-time Favorites - I've cited it myself in the previous two DU threads here at DU.

It's Fun, Too!

Follow along for a minute and you'll see how.

First, the premise of the article is that 4,000,000 pounds of DU released in Iraq is equivalent to 250,000 Nagasaki's radiation-wise.

By doing simple math, that means that one Nagasaki is equal to about 8 pounds of DU, or 3.632 kg.

Then, by converting mass into a dose of radioactivity (e.g., assuming that all that DU were inside a human body - or divided up and put into many human bodies which would be a more likely scenario), 3.632 kg of DU provides a total activity of about 40,000,000 Bq.

Now, if one consults this site:

http://www.physics.isu.edu/radinf/natural.htm

And tabulates the total "Natural Radioactivity in your body" from the table shown about half-ways down the page, the steady-state level is about 20,000 Bq per person.

Once again, by doing simple math one can calculate that ~20,000 people would harbor a total of about 40,000,000 Bq - or the DU equivalent of one Nagasaki.

Finally the fun can begin - by using the completely rock-solid scientific reasoning presented above - let's say you hated hockey - then you could write an article with the headline:

Hockey Fans with a Total Radioactivity Equivalent to A Nagasaki-level A-Bomb Inside of their Bodies Crowd Madison Square Gardens for the Home Opener

That ought to raise some alarms and get Hockey Shut Down right away.

Or, if the NHL went on strike or something else that make such an endeavor a Wasted Effort, how about trying:

Projections show that Baseball Fans with a Total Radioactivity Equivalent to THREE Nagasaki-level A-Bombs Inside of their Bodies are expected for the Yankees Playoff Opener.

Hopefully, once Mr. Guilliani see that, he'll Stay Away. And perhaps the Current Mayor will use some common sense and put The Kibosh on the whole gathering.

Needless to say, future efforts of hold Concerts in the Part by Mr. Simon and Mr. Garfunkle would be completely Off Limits - considering that they would bring together the equivalent of 25 or more Nagasaki's.

And so on . . .

[anarchy1999]

36. Welcome to DU "Snowflake", I'll be happy to maintain my credibility here

at DU! Would you like some references?

I snipped pieces from a couple of articles and speeches, I'm sure in at least one of them he mentions these other poisons, I know he did in the speech he made that I attended last year at our church. My husband and I also got to meet with him and spent a long while talking to him.

Read what Lauren Moret has to say, read all the research from all the others. It comes out pretty clear.

Read the Little Echo essay, read the Life essay, check out the pics, then you decide!

"But perhaps it's easier to keep our heads buried in the sand and go on living in a simplistic black and white world??"

(word to the wise amoung the new, try to be a little more humble when you're new around here, try to get to know the posters before you write stupid things)

[snowFLAKE]

40. Have you actually read "real" research about Depleted Uranium?

As compared to sensationalist-web sites where anyone is free to make any thing up they chose? For example, I don't expect anyone to believe A Single word I say - why should they? The same goes for anything you find on a typical search engine such as GOOGLE.

However, the NIH provides a free search engine for peer-reviewed (i.e., "real" research) scientific studies. This PUBMED site is here:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?CMD=Pager&DB=pubmed

Enter keywords such as Uranium (many results) or Depleted Uranium (fewer results, but still plenty).

The peer-review process isn't perfect - perhpas 2% garbage slips through - but the vast majority of information is reliable and accepted upon consensus. Basically, the reality is that the Medical Community is not going to buy into wild-ass theories (or half- quarter- or whatever-assedness theories) until they've passed peer-review - therefore if Major Rokke and his ilk were really serious about helping the (supposed) victims of Depleted Uranium, they would be spending their efforts towards publishing peer-reviewed articles - not Ranting on The Internet or at Your Church. That way, the first steps would be taken towards developing treatments for Depleted Uranium victims.

[anarchy1999]

42. So are you telling me you know more than Ms. Moret?

Leuren Moret has worked at two US nuclear weapons laboratories as a geoscientist. In 1991 she became a whistleblower at the Livermore nuclear weapons lab, and since then has worked as an independent citizen scientist and radiation specialist in communities around the world, and contributed to the UN subcommission investigating depleted uranium. Her research on the environmental and public health effects of low level radiation from atmospheric testing fallout, nuclear power plants, and depleted uranium weaponry, is available on the internet and at http://www.mindfully.org. In 2003, she testified at the International Criminal Tribunal for Afghanistan held in Japan, and presented at the World Depleted Uranium Weapons Conference in Hamburg, Germany, and at the World Court of Women at the World Social Forum in Bombay, India in January 2004. She is a Contributing Editor to GLOBAL OUTLOOK, a City of Berkeley Environmental Commissioner, and the Past President of the Association for Women Geoscientists.



Depleted Uranium:
The Trojan Horse of Nuclear War
LEUREN MORET / World Affairs – The Journal of International Issues 1jul04

snip:
Dr. Keith Baverstock, a senior radiation advisor who was on the staff of the World Health Organization, co-authored a report in November 2001, warning that the long-term health effects of depleted uranium would endanger Iraq’s civilian population, and that the dry climate would increase exposure from the tiny particles blowing around and be inhaled for years to come. The WHO refused to give him permission to publish the study, bowing to pressure from the IAEA. Dr. Baverstock released the damning report to the media in February 2004. Pekka Haavisto, Chairman of the UN Environment Program’s Post-Conflict Assessment Unit in Geneva, shares Baverstock’s anxiety about depleted uranium but UNEP experts have not been allowed into Iraq to assess the pollution.

snip:
In 1990, the United Kingdom Atomic Energy Authority (UKAEA) wrote a report warning about the potential health and environmental catastrophe from the use of depleted uranium weapons. The health effects had been known for a long time. The report sent to the UK government warned "in their estimation, if 50 tonnes of residual DU dust remained ‘in the region’ there could be half a million extra cancers by the end of the century <2000>." Estimates of depleted uranium weapons used in 1991, now range from the Pentagon’s admitted 325 tons, to other scientific bodies who put the figure as high as 900 tons. That would make the number of estimated cancers as high as 9,000,000, depending on the amount used in the 1991 Gulf War. In the 2003 Gulf War, estimates of 2200 tons have been given — causing about 22,000,000 new cancer cases. Altogether the total number of cancer patients estimated using the UKAEA data would be 25,250,000. In July of 1998, the CIA estimated the population of Iraq to be approximately 24,683,313.

snip:
But what do oil, military partners, depleted uranium wars, and US foreign policy have to do with nuclear weapons? The answer came to me in 1991 when I became a whistleblower at the Livermore Nuclear Weapons Laboratory near San Francisco, California. Richard Berta, the Western Regional Inspector for the Department of Energy, told me "The Pentagon exists for the oil companies… and the nuclear weapons labs exist for the Pentagon."

Depleted uranium was used beginning in 1991 for three reasons:

To test the radiobiological effects of 4th generation nuclear weapons, which are still under development
To blur and break down the distinction between conventional and nuclear weapons
To make it easier to reintroduce nuclear weapons into the US military arsenal
Today, the US is number one in 4th generation nuclear weapons research and development, followed by Japan and Germany tied for number two, and Russia and other countries follow.


World Depleted Uranium Weapons Conference: http://www.uraniumweaponsconference.de

Radiation and Public Health Project: http://www.radiation.org

"A comparison of delayed radiobiological effects of depleted-uranium munitions versus fourth-generation nuclear weapons" by A. Gsponer, J.-P. Hurni, and B. Vitale, 4th International Conference of the Yugoslav Nuclear Society, Belgrade, September 30-October 4, 2002. http://arXiv.org/abs/physics/0210071

"Fourth Generation Nuclear Weapons: The Physical Principles Of Thermonuclear Explosives, Inertial Confinement Fusion, And The Quest For Fourth Generation Nuclear Weapons" by Andre Gsponer and Jean-Pierre Hurni http://www.inesap.org/publ_tech01.htm

http://www.mindfully.org/Nucs/2004/DU-Trojan-Horse1jul04.htm

do yourself a favor and go to link, scroll to the bottom and read the e-mail correspondence rec'd from a Green Beret Sp Ops she asked for input from.

You go ahead and believe the NIH, okey-dokey.

[snowFLAKE]

45. No, I probably don't "Know" more

But there's a significant chance that the little bit that do Know is not Complete Nonsense - such as this paragraph, to give but one example:

"In 1990, the United Kingdom Atomic Energy Authority (UKAEA) wrote a report warning about the potential health and environmental catastrophe from the use of depleted uranium weapons. The health effects had been known for a long time. The report sent to the UK government warned "in their estimation, if 50 tonnes of residual DU dust remained ?in the region? there could be half a million extra cancers by the end of the century <2000>." Estimates of depleted uranium weapons used in 1991, now range from the Pentagon?s admitted 325 tons, to other scientific bodies who put the figure as high as 900 tons. That would make the number of estimated cancers as high as 9,000,000, depending on the amount used in the 1991 Gulf War. In the 2003 Gulf War, estimates of 2200 tons have been given ? causing about 22,000,000 new cancer cases. Altogether the total number of cancer patients estimated using the UKAEA data would be 25,250,000. In July of 1998, the CIA estimated the population of Iraq to be approximately 24,683,313."

:eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes:

Really, this person would be well-advised to get a cancer biologist/epidemioligist to do a cursory review of her material before presenting it in public. That paragraph alone has the potential to completely discredit her and further positions she takes (if she did indeed write it).

[anarchy1999]

47. I give Snowflake.

Guess I should have checked out "your"
http://www.parisbusinessreview.net/

See you around, Snowflake.

[snowFLAKE]

49. OK, you post Foolish Stuff, I post Foolish Stuff

It's a bit easier than actually using one's brain, Don't you Say?

[anarchy1999]

51. You might be using too much of yours.

n/t

[arikara]

59. The only time I ever see good ol' snowflake

is when she's defending depleted uranium. It just really bothers me to see anyone stick up for that horrible stuff, so I'm using the ignore feature for the first time.

[snowFLAKE]

61. And what Bothers Me

Are people who don't give a damn about what's really causing Gulf War Syndrome and the health problems of the Iraqi People.

Blaming everything on DU (and presenting completely to do so, since it's the only way it can be done) is probably the most inhumane thing one can do since that leaves the real culprit uncovered and able to go on killing. But hey, as long as One doesn't have To Think, Life Is Grand.

[anarchy1999]

66. Snowflake,,,,,,go take a jump in a lake. Please melt yourself away.

And on another note, you are a flake. PERIOD! Lose yourself and quit it.

[snowFLAKE]

67. That being true or not,

I'm still interested in your motivation for participating in a cover-up (i.e., blame DU for EVERYTHING) that is extremely detrimental to efforts to actually find out what's the cause of the Gulf War 1 and Iraqi's health problems.

I realize there's a lot of anti-military feeling on this board, and as you show, it takes on myriad mysterious and multi-layered manifestations. Still, there is a personal tragedy unfolding for many, and it would be nice to put aside idealogy for a while - perhaps just long enough to allow some actual science to be done . . .

[anarchy1999]

29. Speech delivered by Rokke, sounds just like what is happening now.

The Terrible, Tragic Toll
Of Depleted Uranium
Address By Dr. Doug Rokke at Fall Congressional Coalition Leadership Breakfast
325 Russell Senate Office Building
U.S. Senate Washington D.C.
11-10-0
12-30-2

Distinguished Members of Congress, Coalition Leaders, Fellow Warriors, and Guests-- It is a distinct honor to address you today. During the Gulf War I was the U.S. Army health physicist assigned to 12th Preventive Medicine AM theater command staff and the 3rd U.S. Army Medical Command headquarters. I was recalled to active duty 20 years after serving in Vietnam, from my research job with the University of Illinois Physics Department and sent to the Gulf to ensure that all military and civilian personnel were prepared for the anticipated nuclear, biological, chemical, and environmental exposures. I also was assigned to two equally vital special operations teams: Bauer's Raiders and the Depleted Uranium Assessment team.

snip:

My medical reports. along with hundreds of others, were separated, locked up in a special room at Noble Army Hospital, Fort McClellan, Alabama, until I was told they were there and I was finally able with intervention to obtain these secret files during the fall of 1997. They were sent to me in the mail. I then had my Army Reserve Command Chief Nurse review the medical evidence and insert them into my official military medical file. Yet, it is worse. As we completed the Depleted Uranium Burn Test at the Department of Energy Nevada Test Site in November 1994, DOE medics performed a radio-bioassay on me that found 5000 times the permissible level of uranium in my body.


snip:

THEN THEY NEVER TOLD ME FOR 2.5 YEARS. AGAIN A DELIBERATE ACTION TO DENY MEDICAL CARE BY PREVENTING CORRELATION OF EXPOSURES TO ADVERSE HEALTH EFFECTS!

I am painting a picture that shows we knew about the threats, warned commanders about the threats, recommended medical care that was and is still ignored, and that our leadership has abandoned the troops for political purposes. Yet, it gets worse. While preparing to conduct our command level briefings and courses two senior Army medical officers came from Aberdeen Proving Grounds, Maryland to make sure we limited our information to commanders and medical personnel.

IN OTHER WORDS: "DO NOT TELL THEM-----THEY WILL NOT KNOW--- AND WE WILL NOT BE RESPONSIBLE".

These two senior officers went to my unit commander and told him to force me to stop making sure the commanders and troops knew about the hazards and were ready to respond to the anticipated exposures and consequence health and environmental problems.

snip to the end:
I will never quit until all individuals are cared for and environmental remediation is completed. I was ordered to complete that mission as a soldier and I will succeed even in the face of adversity! Today, I ask you to help. UNLIKE ANOTHER WARRIOR, I AM ONE SOLDIER WHO WILL NOT JUST FADE A WAY

for all of his speech go to:

http://www.rense.com/general33/terr.htm

[Name removed]

23. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[not systems]

25. Your missing the point that he was contaminated with...

the "harmless" stuff.

From the story:

"The independent test of Matthew's urine found him positive for DU - low-level radioactive waste produced in nuclear plants during the enrichment of natural uranium."

Whatever cases DU apologists make if someone is contaminated
with it they can and do become sick from it.

This man and "four of seven soldiers from another National Guard unit, the 442nd Military Police, had tested positive for depleted uranium (DU).".

Who cares if it is the radiation of the heavy metal poisoning
that cause the damage.

The damage is done to our solders and the county of Iraqi.

Bush and his supporters are to blame and are moral lepers
for refusing to acknowledge it.

[Vickers]

41. D'oh! Sorry, I thought you were responding to me!

My apologies!

[Gregorian]

4. I guess noone heard what Dr. Helen Coldicott had to say.

Before the war began, she was speaking publicly about exactly these things. I was deeply saddened to hear of the troubles of the Iraqi people, above and beyond the war in Kuwait, and the sanctions. What Iraq has gone through due to American aggression is unpardonable. The Bush's have destroyed an entire country. There had better be jail cells waiting, this time. :(

Edit- I should have said, she discussed the correlation between depleted Uranium, and birth defects. I guess we'll find out if there's truth to it. I strongly suspect there is.

[BlueEyedSon]

7. For those strong of stomach

http://www.web-light.nl/VISIE/extremedeformities.html

[el_gato]

12. That link and info should be used on anti-abortion types

[Zerex71]

9. "Daddy, what did you do in the war?"

"Gave you birth defects courtesy of BushCo, that's what."

[Merrick]

10. Iraq = Chernobyl - Irreversibly contaminated for 4 billion years

which also goes for the surrounding areas and those around Afghanistan and Serbia/Yugoslavia.

Whether or not this is or isnt an issue? From a conceptual - scientific standpoint its obvious enough the use of these weapons demonstrates a criminally insane recklessness and indifference to human life on both sides, and from an objective observational perspective the evidence is repugnant - there've been millions of cases of radiation related sicknesses, birth defects, etc. in the Middle East since the first Gulf War, and of the <1 million American serviceman who've served in that region since 1990, upwards of 500,000 are either on or petitioning for disability. How many actual war related casualties have there been from those two wars? 10,000 - 30,000? You do the math.

shows how much the pentagon and our government gives a shit about anything or anybody - including our own people.

[el_gato]

13. Bushco never invaded iraq with intent to instill democracy, this is proof

Democracy does not come in the form of depleted uranium.

[donsu]

16. agree

nt

[snowFLAKE]

33. Millions killed by Chernobyl? or 48? Who's counting anyway?

Why don't we just say Billions of people were killed - it's more dramatic and scary that way. How about 37,634,698,399 exactly? Repeat it Often Enough on The Internet and soon it will be The Truth.

Of course, there's always something known as "Reality:"

http://www.magma.ca/~jalrober/Howbad.htm

[Merrick]

34. Did somebody say millions died from Chernobyl?

Because I sure didn't. I was merely making a rough comparison to the level of contamination between the two areas. It really has nothing to do with the argument at hand anyway.

I'm sure the Russian government appreciates your public relations efforts, though...

[snowFLAKE]

35. You mentioned

"millions of cases of radiation related sicknesses, birth defects, etc."

So I thought - while we're just Making Stuff Up, why not make the claim the They All Died.

But perhaps claiming that people are Dead, instead of just Very Ill, crosses an Imaginary Line that damages One's Credibility?

Sorry, My Bad.

[Merrick]

37. I was referring to illnesses in Iraq and the M.E. (from DU)

[w4rma]

43. Are you really downplaying the effects of Chernobyl's radiaton, snowFLAKE?

And you really think the deaths caused by it can be computed "exactly"?

Illogical.

[snowFLAKE]

50. No I was just Playing Along

With Those Who just make up Completely Meaningless Numbers (such as the predicted incidence of cancer in Post #42 or the comparison of one particle of DU dust with daily X-rays in Post #6, to give but two of the numerous riduculous examples on This Thread).

I suspect that at some level, somewhere along the way, Information of This Type was posted on the web as A Joke, and somehow legitimized by Science Graduates of the Kansas School System.

[snowFLAKE]

65. BTW, here's a thread where the effects of Chernobyl are discussed

in Some Detail:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=115x5609

[Sophree]

46. Criminally insane and INTENTIONAL

They are engaging in genocide in regions around the world where the population is difficult to subdue/control and where the resources (oil) we need to maintain supremacy are located. Their goal is to sterilize entire populations. Our soldiers are cannon fodder, unfortunate casualties.

http://www.mindfully.org/Nucs/2004/DU-Trojan-Horse1jul04.htm

Depleted Uranium:
The Trojan Horse of Nuclear War
LEUREN MORET / World Affairs – The Journal of International Issues 1jul04

Since 1991, the United States has staged four wars using depleted uranium weaponry, illegal under all international treaties, conventions and agreements, as well as under the US military law. The continued use of this illegal radioactive weaponry, which has already contaminated vast regions with low level radiation and will contaminate other parts of the world over time, is indeed a world affair and an international issue. The deeper purpose is revealed by comparing regions now contaminated with depleted uranium — from Egypt, the Middle East, Central Asia and the northern half of India — to the US geostrategic imperatives described in Zbigniew Brzezinski’s 1997 book The Grand Chessboard.

SOUTH REGION: “This huge region, torn by volatile hatreds and surrounded by competing powerful neighbors, is likely to be a major battlefield, both for wars among nation-states and, more likely, for protracted ethnic and religious violence. Whether India acts as a restraint or whether it takes advantage of some opportunity to impose its will on Pakistan will greatly affect the regional scope of the likely conflicts. The internal strains within Turkey and Iran are likely not only to get worse but to greatly reduce the stabilizing role these states are capable of playing within this volcanic region. Such developments will in turn make it more difficult to assimilate the new Central Asian states into the international community, while also adversely affecting the American-dominated security of the Persian Gulf region. In any case, both America and the international community may be faced here with a challenge that will dwarf the recent crisis in the former Yugoslavia.” Brzezinski


The fact is that the United States and its military partners have staged four nuclear wars, "slipping nukes under the wire" by using dirty bombs and dirty weapons in countries the US needs to control. Depleted uranium aerosols will permanently contaminate vast regions and slowly destroy the genetic future of populations living in those regions, where there are resources which the US must control, in order to establish and maintain American primacy.

[donsu]

18. I think the Army and Walter Reed passed the buck

of course they knew what was the matter.

if they said it was DU they would be demoted or fired or worse.

[DulceDecorum]

24. The Pentagon Doctors

all have the last name MENGELE.

[sistersofmercy]

19. DU is an issue it's the new Agent Orange but worse

There is plenty of info out there on the matter, 5-10 years from now the truth will be known I have no doubt about it. I believe we went to war over DU, the oil and other businesses related to the Iraq war are just a bonus.

[Merrick]

39. DU a problem? Rumsfeld eats it for breakfast.

Rumsfeld to all of you crybabies: Quit your bitchin'!

http://www.newsmutiny.com/10/dubreakfast.htm

[UpInArms]

44. Iraqis have been suffering from this

since the first Gulf War

http://www.web-light.nl/VISIE/extremedeformities.html



this child has no fingers or toes

[Radius]

55. Kuwait & Kosovo

Have no blooms..There are progressions of cancer types that form from radiation exposure. Human birth defects are naturally occurring and have to be factored out of any thing that alleged to be a mass carcinogen.

No oncology journal has reported a bloom due to DU. UN study debunked the DU super toxicity theory.

toxinet and hsdb have some information that debunks as well.

It is a toxic heavy metal, but not a super killer.

[Radius]

48. DU is Debunked

The UN has debunked it in their study available online.
No oncology journal has written any articles linked DU in cancer.
There are no mass claims from kosovo or Kuwait where it was used in massive tank battles and in air strikes.
Cancer due to radiation has distinct patterns, im not a doctor or anything but I pretty sure about this. Your fingers don't just fall off. Next there will be reports of giant spiders..

It is a toxic heavy metal just like lead. You are in more danger in an indoor shooting range than strolling around Kuwait..

[not systems]

52. You are missing the point.

Lead is a confirmed animal carcinogen.

See:

http://www.osha.gov/dts/chemicalsampling/data/CH_249110.html

This soldier is contaminated with DU as are others in his group.

Why don't you care that Americans are being poisoned by DU?

You should.

DU has not been "debunked" as harmful to soldiers and civilians
exposed to it.

[Radius]

54. The UN study disagrees..

Soldiers have been exposed to lead for hundreds of years. So have millions of Americans.
DU is not save, but it is not a genocide tool.

This is all political. Kuwait and kosovo have shown no signs of cancer blooms. Nor have workers from liquid metal and dozens of other companies that make du.

It is used for all kinds of things, from aircraft ballast to xray shielding.

No oncology journal or reputable source has named DU a significant cancer source anywhere. Fact.

[not systems]

56. The OSHA website disagrees with you...

here:

http://www.osha.gov/dts/chemicalsampling/data/CH_274800.html


American Conference of Governmental Industrial Hygienists (ACGIH) Threshold Limit Value (TLV): 0.2 mg/m3 TWA; 0.6 mg/m3 STEL; Appendix A1 - Confirmed Human Carcinogen

...

Potential symptoms: Increased urinary excretion of uranium from shrapnel in tissues; elevated prolactin level (upper end of normal range); In animals: lung, lymph node damage, dermatitis (carcinogenic

...


Notes: 1) Lower performance on computerized tests assessing performance efficiency was associated with elevated urine uranium levels in Gulf War veterans with shrapnel from munitions or armor made from depleted uranium (DU) in one study, but not confirmed in subsequent follow-up. 2) Rats implanted with DU pellets show marked accumulation of uranium in kidneys, bone and teeth, with lesser accumulation in liver, spleen, and brain. 3) Possible radiation-related effects likely due to decay products, especially radon.

[sofa king]

57. Now, wait a minute!

You say that lead is a confirmed animal carcinogen. I don't know whether or not to believe the article you cited, but think about that for a moment, won't you?

Lead also vaporizes when it hits something. Lead dust is a known hazard.

http://www.dhs.ca.gov/ohb/OLPPP/pntblnk1.htm
http://www.mass.gov/dos/leaddocs/lead_firing.htm

Most bullets are lead--except in the rare cases where they use depleted uranium. Many cartridges use lead primers. Houses used to be painted with lead paint. Lead solder is used to join plumbing, and is sometimes used for pipe. Every Fourth of July America blasts some 90 tons of lead into the atmosphere in the form of fireworks.

Norway estimated that in 2001 its armed forces fired off 70 tons of lead. Norway has 27,000 men in uniform. Norway wasn't fighting a war, nor do Norwegians fire off clips of AK-47 rounds to celebrate weddings.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/news/2002/08/mil-020820-shape02.htm

Lead is chemically more toxic than depleted uranium.
http://www.janes.com/defence/news/jdw/dutoxic010112_1_n.shtml

And, using our superhuman recollection of high school physics and chemistry, many of us have tried to explain to you folks that depleted uranium cannot possibly be the radiological hazard some of you are making it out to be. That is easily shown by our knowledge of the physical laws of the goddamned universe. If you choose to believe otherwise, you fall into the exact same category as people who feel they don't need to clean up the environment because Jesus is coming back soon.

So as all of you were saying, depleted uranium is the problem. Why? Because

[not systems]

58. You wait a minute...

the article I sited is the on the US government's website.

You DU loving parrots should have some DU on me.

No where did I say DU is a "radiological hazard" although
depending on how depleted it is it could be.

DU is a problem because it is used in a way that exposes soldiers
and civilian to it and is toxic.

As I was saying have some, please.

War loving toxic waste apologists make me sick and so does DU.

Lead causes brain damage have you checked your house?

[sofa king]

60. My point, since you seemed to miss it, is this.

So you want to get rid of depleted uranium, eh? What's the next best and much cheaper thing?

Lead.

So, my friend, you can sit there and raise a nonexistent outcry over depleted uranium, and maybe you'll get rid of it.

And come the next war--and there will be one--someone's going to have to throw roughly three times as much lead to get the same effect as they would have with depleted uranium. And that lead will vaporize, and children will breathe it, and, because it is more soluble than uranium, it will also leach into the water supply and use the gastrointestinal tract as well as the lungs to kill more fucking babies than you would have with depleted uranium.

Scientifically ignorant wannabe pacifists who are willing to make a problem larger rather than understand the facts make me sick AND SO DOES LEAD.

[Radius]

64. Little Mrs Lump Lump..

Sends little Timmy lump lump off to war.
Timmy is an Abrams tank gunner.
ms lump lump reads the BBC and sees little Timmy is exposed to a radiological super toxin everyday.
ms lump lump complains to Congress and DU is banned.
Little Timmy gets into a tank battle and his best method of killing armor has been replaced by a substandard alloy.
Timmy Lump Lump burns alive in his tank after his non PC enemy hits it with a kinetic DU round.
Mrs. Lump Lump complains that her son had sub standard weapons....

Paraphrased from Hackworth's arguments in "About Face"

You are in a MUCH more hazardous environment in an indoor shooting range than in the Kuwait desert where massive tank battles took place. Just don't go licking tank hulls, eating you expensive watch that uses tritium to illuminate the dials, or eat your smoke detector..

[txindy]

53. The BBC has more

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_depth/europe/2001/depleted_uranium/default.stm

[anarchy1999]

63. kicking back to the front page, everyone here needs to pay attention.

Our Vets and their family's of this disaster are going to suffer far more than Vietnam Vets and their family's. This is going to be so bad there are many that have absolutely no idea.