Republicans Admit Mailing Literature Saying Liberals Will Ban Bible

[quaoar]

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/09/24/politics/campaign/24bible.html

By DAVID D. KIRKPATRICK
Published: September 24, 2004


The Republican Party acknowledged yesterday sending mass mailings to residents of two states warning that "liberals" seek to ban the Bible. It said the mailings were part of its effort to mobilize religious voters for President Bush.

The mailings include images of the Bible labeled "banned" and of a gay marriage proposal labeled "allowed." A mailing to Arkansas residents warns: "This will be Arkansas if you don't vote." A similar mailing was sent to West Virginians.

A liberal religious group, the Interfaith Alliance, circulated a copy of the Arkansas mailing to reporters yesterday to publicize it. "What they are doing is despicable,'' said Don Parker, a spokesman for the alliance. "They are playing on people's fears and emotions."

In an e-mail message, Christine Iverson, a spokeswoman for the Republican National Committee, confirmed that the party had sent the mailings.

[whistle]

1. Dupe

[quaoar]

5. Where? I don't see it

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

2. OMG, if liberals ban the bible we won't be able to hit them over the head

with it! :wow:

[JohnKleeb]

3. Good their bs should be exposed

I am sick of them trying to own Christianity, this isn't only my faith, or yours, it's ours, god I hate how republicans do this, just because we're socially liberal doesnt mean we're in favor of bible banning, quite contrary, religion is important to me.

[KansDem]

62. "I am sick of them trying to own Christianity"

Christianity™

[jimb0s]

86. religion is important to me.

religion is important to me.
which one?

[Qanisqineq]

4. what the?

sweet jesus, that is despicable!

[dave123williams]

6. Maybe we should ban them...

Bibles seem to be nothing but a source of outmoded thinking...I mean, the people who wrote it thought THE WORLD WAS FLAT, FOR CHRISSAKES.

[aquart]

11. The Bible doesn't have one word about the world being flat.

Try reading it.

Seriously. The stories are quite illuminating. Like the rape of Dinah, and the Judges version of Sodom and Gomorrah (which is really the Enquirer version).

And don't forget, "the sons of Eli are worthless men." Google that one.

[leesa]

24. Read the bible many times. It is full of poorly written, conflicting

stories that cause incredible strife because they can be interpreted in any way you choose. The Jewish scribes who wrote them were striving for social control within their own time. It is irrelevent to our times. The only thing of value are the Gospels as a new way of thinking for these people, even though the Buddhists had "discovered" it long before.

[stopbush]

30. Sorry, but the Bible does strongly imply that the earth is flat.

And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth. — Isaiah 11:12

Last I looked, the Earth didn't have any corners. In fact, it's sort of a sphere.

Or how about this, from Daniel?:

Thus were the visions of mine head in my bed; I saw, and behold a tree in the midst of the earth, and the height thereof was great.

The tree grew, and was strong, and the height thereof reached unto heaven, and the sight thereof to the end of all the earth: - Daniel 4:10-11

In other words, the tree in Daniel's vision was so high that it reached heaven itself, and everyone on Earth could see it. The implication is that everyone on the Earth lives on the same level plane. Nifty, huh?

[Lone_Wolf_Moderate]

34. Read it again.

In that same book, it makes it clear that the Earth is round. You can't take things out of context.

[Surf Cowboy]

55. Quick History Quiz:

Was the Bible written prior to, or subsequent to, Copernicus?

Thus endeth the argument.

[Romulus Quirinus]

121. Eratosthenes

IIRC, proved that the earth was round far earlier than Copernicus, in about 200 BC, by measuring the inclination of shadows in wells at different lattitudes. He got a very accurate number for the circumference of the earth, btw, approx. 40,000 kilometers.

Here is a good site that came at the top of a Google search:

www.usd.edu/phys/courses/astronomy/lab%20text/circumference.PDF

"Educated" people have thought the earth is round for quite a while!

[thecrow]

64. Link please n/t

[Dhalgren]

65. I don't remember Danny saying that the world was round.

Where does he say that?

[stopbush]

71. Uh, I think it says the Earth is a circular disc.

In any case, it's still flat.

[Name removed]

90. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[dave123williams]

99. The bible is totally contradictory...

You can interpret it whichever way you'd like. It's ALLEGORY.

The people who wrote it, thought the world was FLAT. Copernicus proved otherwise.

[PurityOfEssence]

117. Please cite chapter and verse

Things aren't so because you say they're so, and when talking about a book, it's pretty easy to check.

[Heyo]

37. To this day...

.. people still say "four corners of the Earth"

Heyo

[dave123williams]

92. Dinosaurs, pal....dinosaurs....

They may still say 'four corners of the earth'. They also say, 'heaven above'. Well, if you go up in to the upper atmosphere, you're not going to find heaven. You're going to get very cold, and run out of air.

[louis-t]

88. good work!

[mmonk]

56. The bible

does mention four corners. Christianity has pushed a three tiered world or universe-Heaven above, the earth, and the underworld below. We need an elevator.

[dave123williams]

94. I've read it, and the Koran, and the Torah, and the Talmud...

They're mostly useless, dated, tired and are inarguably totally fucking boring reads. Mildly good stories for children, couched in unbelieveably arcane language.

These books *are* really good for controlling suggestible people, though. So, the bible does have it's uses.

There's no getting around the fact that the people who lived at the time the new testament was authored roundly believed that the world was flat.

I mean, who are you kidding other than yourself? Copernicus, Galileo - the history of their discoveries is widely availible and not hard to understand.

I understand you can find morals in comic books these days that read much better. Good art, too.

[Arianrhod]

114. But the Church--which is the sole religious authority on the Bible--

taught that for 1500 years. They didn't base their doctrine on observation, but on the Bible. So there must be something in there that at least makes the inference, eh? And there is--although, to modern minds (especially those who don't want to see it), the inferences are a bit subtle.

Still, modern Christians can't get around the scientific errors associated with Christianity simply because their personal interpretation of the Bible--suffused as it is with undeniable evidence from the scientific research conducted over the past 150 years--is different than what the Church held to be true centuries ago. You have pretty much no choice in believing what you do, because you would (rightly) be called a fool if you stuck to the old errors. And don't suppose that the Catholics are the only guilty parties here: Martin Luther wrote that Gallileo was a "madman", because "the Bible plainly teaches that the sun goes around the Earth". He cited Joshua's halting of the sun as his proof text--a passage that clearly states "the sun was halted in its course".

The Bible has been rewritten so many times that there is no longer any valid reason for accepting its authenticity. We have not a single manuscript that dates from the 1st Century; the two oldest we have--the Sinai Codex, from the 3rd Century, and the Alexandrian Codex, from the 4th--don't even agree with each other. (The latter adds 11 verses to the final chapter of Mark, for starters. These same verses now appear in every extant Bible. But they WERE NOT in the original.) BTW, I've seen these codices; they're on display in the British Library. They're cool as hell; the Alexandrian even has notes in the margins, written in a different hand. :)

More than that, the noncanonical works give an entirely different description of what was taking place in the early Church. That these works had to be hidden is telling--especially since virtually all those who accepted their authenticity were put to death by the Church. What kind of "truth" requires such a reaction?

Sorry, but whether you like it or not, and regardless of how you interpret the Bible today, your religion has taught such errors as that the world is flat, and that it is circled by the sun.

BTW, many members of the Flat Earth Society are also Creationists....

;)

[Lerkfish]

12. hmm...don't think so.

I've read the bible thoroughly and there is no reference I'm aware of that purports the earth to be flat. Where are you getting that from?

You may be confusing later Catholic Church and their persecution of Copernicus and Gallileo...which if you'd said that, ok. But you're trying to say that the bible says that when I don't believe it does.

and, oh yeah, please avoid smearing all christians with the religious right brush. There are thousands and thousands of liberal christians. You just don't see us getting a lot of press.

O8)

[luaneryder]

49. This total lie

should be impetus enough to get Christians who are not of the RR incensed and motivated to right this wrong. It would be great if you guys could start getting some press letting the world know that the RW fundies don't own your religion and that liberals can be Christians, too. Much of this election is coming down to * claiming to be "born again" and invoking God at all turns and tricking many Christians into thinking he's something and someone he is not.

[toopers]

53. The reason we don't get more response from these dirty tricks

is because people from our party are guilty of dirty tricks also. Do y'all remember the commercials during the 1996 election (I believe). It was targeted towards African Americans -- it basically stated "if you vote for a republican another black church will burn". We need to cleanse ourselves before we expect to gain any ground with the wingnuts do this type of thing!

[maxsolomon]

74. and then churches burned

probably, somewhere.

[toopers]

81. But not due to anyone being elected.

Of course, if you have evidence I would love to see it.

[dave123williams]

100. You could start by reading more thoroughly...

Thus were the visions of mine head in my bed; I saw, and behold a tree in the midst of the earth, and the height thereof was great.

The tree grew, and was strong, and the height thereof reached unto heaven, and the sight thereof to the end of all the earth: - Daniel 4:10-11


How could you see the whole earth from the top of a tree, were it not flat?

[Lerkfish]

103. I read it thoroughly enough, thanks.

eom

[Name removed]

107. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[quaoar]

122. Something to chew on

http://www.christiananswers.net/q-eden/edn-c015.html

[realisticphish]

125. what the hell is this

why has this thread turned into an anti-christian rant? FREEDOM OF RELIGION means FREEDOM OF FUCKING RELIGION. DUers are NOT trying to push their religion on you. you come in here and start yelling things like this, and you try to claim the higher position. what the hell does it matter what other people that weren't bothering you believe?


:hippie: The Incorrigible Democrat

[Lerkfish]

126. and you're no better than a republican...

from one response you've used your bigoted prejudice to determine my entire nature incorrectly.

You've used one word: "christian" to pigeonhole all christians.

when you're actually intereseted in a rational discussion, not one that hurls invectives and stereotypes, I'd be happy to discuss things with you. Until then...move along to your next victim.

for everyone else, I am a christian, but I respect all other viewpoints as different paths to the same enlightenment. I do not think I am better, nor do I think my viewpoint should discriminate against other viewpoints. Unfortunately, as we've seen, the religious right has conditioned the nonreligious into making false assumptions about christians and religions in general.

Its very sad, but there is little I can do about that. If someone wants to find out why Jesus is the ultimate liberal, about why the RR are not following his teachings, why a true christian is tolerant instead of intolerant, permissive instead of judgemental, or loving instead of exclusive based on class or other stereotypes, I'd be happy to discuss that.

I"m here because I'm a liberal...therefore a liberal christian. If nonbelieving democrats insist on berating us for what the RR does, the umbrella is pointless. Then you've become as jingoistic and pointlessly phobic as the republicans. Don't do that.

[jwirr]

16. Wrong

it was people in the middle ages, many years after the Bible was written, that thought earth was flat.

[dave123williams]

108. Right...so the dirt farmers of the first century AD....

were much more in touch with Newtonian Physics. Get a grip.

[JohnnyCougar]

33. If you think Jesus' thinking is "outmoded"

I encourage you look at what he tought. I resent the scorn of the Bible here. Just because some fundy assholes take every little story seriously doesn't mean the whole thing is "outmoded."

[trogdor]

59. I'll concur with that.

In an age when people really didn't know jack shit, Jesus was WAY ahead of his time. The problem with fundy assholes is, they dismiss the parts that don't jive with their whacked-out worldview, like love your neighbor (even if he's gay, or a Democrat), turn the other cheek, or that money won't get you into Heaven.

[quaoar]

95. Indeed

The fundamentalists would be shocked if Jesus returned today, because he would not show up on Sunday morning in one of their shiny new crystal cathedrals complete with monster sound systems and gymnasiums. He would be at the homeless shelter or the AIDS hospice or the charity hospital -- precisely the sort of places whose doors are never darkened by Republicans.

[IA_Seth]

75. Hear Hear

The contempt for Christianity by some on this board is depressing.

[dave123williams]

93. Outmoded it is.

When you have a fellow in office claiming to be Christian, who's purely incapable of turning the other cheek, it would stand to reason that the teachings of Jesus are being categorically ignored in favor of a weird, non-Christian and mutant form of piety.

Outmoded; unfasionable, not useable, not practical.

[JohnnyCougar]

105. I suppose you think democracy is outmoded, then, too.

[Arianrhod]

115. I used this argument once in a discussion with a Christian,

and his response was to show me several passages in which Jesus is displayed as a militant, Gentile-hating warrior whose purpose was to divide and bring conflict. These passages are every bit as "valid" as any other in the NT. And Lynn Picknett has a few words to say about how "loving" the Jesus of the Gospels was. . . .

Fact is, you can use the Bible to prove anything you want to. I don't consider such an amorphous body of work to be authoritative when it comes to living my real life--although it does give a lot of insight into what life may have been like thousands of years ago.

Speaking of which, modern Christians are guilty of taking the entire book out of context, trying to shoehorn the ancient morals and viewpoints of a totally different culture--a culture not even fully understood by scholars who have spent their entire lives studying it, much less by people who merely go to church on occasion--into today's secular, science- and reason-based society. Even the world of several hundred years ago is incomprehensible to us. Why should we accept that these ancient nomads had anything relevant to say to us today? Do you consult the Lapps on questions of morality?

[G_j]

54. so it seems ANYTHING goes

Why don't Republicans come right out and say it, telling lies is the new family value. Can you imagine a generation of kids who are taught that telling the truth is not a Christian value?

[trogdor]

58. It was worse than that.

Depending on when a particular book was written, their rough guestimate of the size of the world was more-or-less confined to the part of the Middle East they were familiar with. Beyond that were sea monsters and God knows what.

These were primitive people who had a severely limited understanding of the world and how it works. For them, a faith healer was as good as a physician because even the physicians didn't know shit. At least the faith healer wouldn't try to cure you by putting leeches on you. How modern people who know better can place faith in the teachings of people who really didn't know anything over people who expended some organized effort to find things out (like Darwin) is beyond me.

[kerryin2004]

7. They should want the ban of the bible..

We all know how republicans are typically the best customers of prostitutes, and surely when in that hotel room they must feel guilty with that bible lying right next to them while they are doing their deeds with the hoes..Just ask Jimmy Swaggart!

[RT_Fanatic]

42. Yes, but brother Swaggart

was in a limousine--no Gideon Bibles there, I'm sure--and he was just looking at the whore while he jerked himself off. And that was the first and only time he ever sinned!
:evilgrin:

[classof56]

51. Brother Swaggart is one of those Christians that makes you wonder

Why God doesn't just smack him into perpetual silence. Now he's beating his gums about killing gays. Sure makes me wanta smack him! Ah, well, like that old saying--God works in mysterious ways.

BTW--welcome to DU.

DEFEAT BUSH!!

[kerryin2004]

82. Here's the funniest part...

If Swaggart has to pay women to be with him, what makes him think any gay man would want him??

[bobthedrummer]

8. "Ein volk, ein Reich, ein Bush"

SEIG...

[TahitiNut]

27. "Gott Mit Uns"

Fascists against those "godless commies" again. Old fascist habits die hard. :shrug:

[Endangered Specie]

61. Der W ist der Sieg.

[TahitiNut]

72. Boy vey!

(There's a trilingual pun there, if you look for it.)

[SOS]

80. OT

Kerry 311? Only last night Paula Zahn was reporting the November election result as Bush 301. He's adding 10 electoral votes every 12 hours!
He's a unstoppable Superman!
:eyes:

[struggle4progress]

9. Sorta missed the point of that commandment against ...

... bearing false witness ...

[Voltaire99]

10. Ban it?! Thought the plan was to tie copies to the Dixie Chicks' boots...

...and then have Ozzy Osbourne bite it in half.

Man, things are moving so hurriedly in the Liberal Conspiracy, I can hardly keep up.

[Book Lover]

13. The people I am concerned about

are those that received the letter and did not dismiss it out of hand. How oblivious would you have to be to read this and not realize you were being crudely targeted by propaganda?

Ban the bible? No book as popular as the bible can ever be banned. In two thousand years, and more, barring complete global destruction there will be copies of all sorts of versions of the bible. Today, there are copies of writings concerning religions that flourished and withered thousands of years before the books of the bible were agreed upon (Council of Nicea? ~800 CE? I can't remember right now...), but no! The Democratic Party is going to come into your home and break it apart, looking for bibles to burn if you don't cast your vote for our President!

I agree with Don Parker; this is despicable behavior. I am going to write to every Republican elected official I can manage and demand that they repudiate this tactic.

[Arianrhod]

116. Council of Nicea: 325-326 CE. n/t

[onehandle]

14. Fine, now can we ban the RNC? nt

[OnionPatch]

15. This really ticked me too.

I have three bibles in my home right now. I don't know how they can believe that we, who are always griping about freedom of speech and so on would want to ban bibles. The only banning concerning bibles I would want is the banning of them being crammed down my children's throat at public school.

[Rose Siding]

17. This just hurts my heart

How can repubs conscience such destructive deception?

[janx]

20. It is the politics of division.

And it is disgusting.

[Piperay]

119. Yeah, it is really sad

it makes me sick that they have no conscience about such lies and deception. :-( Rethugs prove with this kind of thing that they truly are evil people. x(

[Mr_Spock]

18. What they are doing seems so unAmerican as to be illegal.

Incredibly despicable - nothing is below the vile scumyness of Repuke shit heads.

[Sydnie]

25. I am amazed that it's not illegal.

It would seem to me that they used the USPS to send threatening mail. Wouldn't it fall under "terrorist activities"? They were attempting to terrorize every christian in those states about the future of their religious freedoms. Dems haven't posed any threat to their beliefs but the Reps have with that very mailing.

I wouldn't be surprised if they are working on a new translation of the "good book" themselves. After all, they need to find something that would obsolve them from their sins.


http://www.ericblumrich.com/faith.html <make sure your sound is on>

[Mr_Spock]

26. Seems to be slander at minimum. Using USPS implies mail fraud

I dunno, it just seems to stink to high heaven. Repukes would pop a vein if Dems ever did this.

[Pirate Smile]

19. I'm glad the NY Times finally is reporting this. Didn't we see it

last Friday or over the weekend?

[Hekate]

21. They have no shame. None.

Once again I am moved to prayer by Bush's presence in the WH. Please God, please protect my country from your followers.

:kick:

Hekate

[MO_Dem]

22. I guess they thought God wouldn't know

what they were doing? Or, do they even believe in God? Maybe the RNC is the anitchrist?

[Leilani]

23. Anyone who believed this outrageous lie

will not get the truth...they don t read the NY Times.

[qWagmire]

29. Bible ban

As an atheist I don't give a shit who owns a bible. Keep the dumb-ass social conservatives from forcing their beliefs on me and I'm perfectly happy. If the Republicans didn't have hate and fear, people might see how horse-shit their policies actually are.

[Gyre]

28. Arkansas and West Virginia

They're not stupid; unlike their prey in the aforementioned states in particular.

Gyre

[The_Casual_Observer]

31. confirmed that the party had sent the mailings

Wow, I am amazed that the shits took credit for this smear. They must be particularly proud of this garbage.

[Kimber Scott]

32. I guess there's no law against lying, huh?

Only in the Bible. Too bad these people haven't read it.

[Norquist Nemesis]

35. Any one seen the new attack ad?

It ticks of Bush's plans with a woman's voice, pleasant, upbeat. Then, the voice goes down a pitch to what I can only describe as similar to a flat note in music. "John Kerry and the Liberals in Congress want to raise your taxes."

I guess they can't say Democrats anymore since Zell's appearance.

[RobinA]

48. The One I Like

says "John Kerry and his liberal buddies...." Sadly, this stuff works.

[Only Me]

36. This sort of thing makes me sad and very angry. I am sick of them using

faith as a weapon to manipulate this election. They have NO SHAME and no conscience.

[Cheswick2.0]

47. Unfortunately there are always a few clueless "liberals" willing to agree

that, for instance, Bibles should be banned.
Isn't it nice that fanatics on "our side" are so willing to give proof to the lies of the "other side"?

[Judi Lynn]

67. Have never heard of one "liberal" claiming bibles should be banned.

Could you give a quick reference?

I have heard of Americans objecting to Judge Roy Moore's giant marble Ten Commandments monument. That's the closest I can imagine to what you posted.

Please illuminate.

[lordwhorfin]

70. Really

I don't mean to be contentious, but I think I'd like to see proof that even amongst a lunatic fringe of liberals the existance of bible-banners.

Now, if you mean non-LIBERAL but perhaps left (in origins, anyway) groups like MIM-RAIL or other total nutbars, OK, but these folks have about as much grasp on reality as the Khmer Rouge, and no influence on anything. And don't tell me that they are my problem: as a liberal, I repudiate them.

[clonebot]

96. i think the term he meant was

'radical left extremist' not 'liberal' -- which usually gets lumped together unfortunately, cause they are two different things

[Festivito]

38. If these Republicans were of God, they would not do this. nt.

[Flammable Materials]

39. New GOP Slogan:

"Hey, stupid - vote for us."

[wicket]

40. sickening

[jackofhearts]

41. If you really want to have some fun...

Point out to your religious right wing-nut friend that Jesus was, in his day, a liberal. Point out that he was often seen with the dregs of society and that he was teaching against the conservative pharisees. Remind them that Jesus did not condemn the woman for adultry and in fact let her walk free against the conservative desire to stone her to death. Remind them that he drank wine with the very people the pharisees were pointing to as sinful.

Jesus was clearly liberal in his day and I am sure if he came back today would be no less so. The conservatives want to cling to ridiculus stories of the old testament while Jesus basically came along and asked all people to stop all the finger pointing and condemnation and love one another. When these so called Christians start crying about the 10 commandments and never mention any of Jesus core messages you know they have no real sense of what Jesus even means and are just hiding behind some pious image. Any Christian who would support the bombing of little children is the lowest form of life according to Jesus...the hypocrite.

No serious analysis of the teachings of Jesus would conclude him to be in any way conservative in his day. JESUS WAS A LIBERAL.

[Mr_Spock]

43. Here here - Jesus was killed for being a radical liberal.

And many of his savage followers today post violent messages implying that we here at DU should be killed for our more liberal view of the world. They are indeed the wolf in sheep's clothing - the hypocrites.

[Political_Junkie]

44. Great post

and welcome to DU.

[bloom]

77. Would Jesus Ban the Bible?

hmmm.

[Soth]

45. Banning stuff?

Like this?

[RollergirlVT]

46. Suckers

What a great way to point out just how stupid the GOP thinks Americans are. (not that their aren't GOP loyalist that stupid) but that is beside the point. The GOP... their motto is, "another sucker is born every minute". Are you just another GOP sucker?

[tom_paine]

50. The usual Nazi/Totalitarian "aggressor as whiny victim" mentality

so carefully innoculated and inculcated in the New Bushevik Sturmtruppen.

They believe it. Many of them, really do. We are headed for terrible times if these Bushevik Monsters gain unchecked Totalitarian Power, which they are close to doing...

[kodi]

69. yeap, and the nazis cramed jews into ovens to protect themselves they said

the same pyschology is working here with the right wing religious fanatics.

i am so disgusted with mouthbreathing morons who spout the bible but live by mammon.

[classof56]

52. If Bush is the fine Christian man of faith he claims to be...

Why doesn't he stand up and renounce these ugly tactics, and repudiate the RNC and everyone who perpetuates these lies and engages in the blatant character assassination that they have and continue to practice?

I keep asking that question, but keep getting the same answer from our so-called born-again President who says he prays to Jesus every morning: Silence. Which speaks volumes, IMHO.

Would also be interesting to have Bush quote, off the top of his head, verses from the Bible that he claims to hold so dear. But as Jesus said in Matthew 11, "Wisdom is proved right by her actions." Yes, indeed...

DEFEAT BUSH!!

[flowergirl]

84. Matthew 11

Which verse are you referring to? Can you quote chapter and verse, please?

[Judi Lynn]

85. Here ya go! I'm not a regular Bible waver or reader.I found it in google

Matthew 11:19 . . . they say, ‘Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and “sinners”.’ But wisdom is proved right by her actions.

http://net-burst.net/hope/soothev3.htm

It's really easy. You can do it, too.

[classof56]

91. Matthew 11:19 (b) NIV

In the first part of the verse Jesus says, "The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners.' But wisdom is proved right by her actions."

Start at the first verse of Chapter 11 for the complete context.

And welcome to DU!

DEFEAT BUSH!!

[Myrina]

102. How appropriate that it's Bush's fave ...

since he himself has long been a drunkard and a glutton, and a friend of sinners ....

i doubt very much, however, that he shall ever shown to be a good or wise man.



:)

[YellowRubberDuckie]

57. Like there are no liberal Christians.

Kerry is an active Catholic for Christ's sake. They will stoop to anything, won't they? :eyes: Next, violence against those whom they don't understand. And then we'll be rounded up.
Duckie

[Endangered Specie]

60. Is it ok if I send literature thats says Republicans will ban the Quran?

I think that would be more accurate no?

[clonebot]

98. o'reilly..

complained about a freshman class at some high school (or maybe university - i can't recall) that was required to read the quran for a particular class. he said why should we teach our children the RELIGON OF THE ENEMY? buhahahha. what an asshole.

[Endangered Specie]

106. That was UNC...

Uni. of North Carolina (a public state university). They are a liberal bastion in NC.

[clonebot]

120. thank god

its good to know SOMEONE is getting an education in N.C.

[Bandit]

63. Maybe God is getting a little pissed about it as well

Notice most of the destructive storms and floods have mostly been in heavily Republican areas. Maybe God is saying "Wake your silly asses up." There is Global Warming and Humans can help stop it. Protect Gods creation not destroy it. Republicans are very good at destroying things but a little shaky at Conserving.

[mmonk]

66. This works particularly well

in the repub south where people teach their children Catholics aren't Christian and Catholics tried to ban the bible (and Kerry is Catholic). Remember, while some of us go to church to honor Jesus and pray, others go to reaffirm their hate and prejudices. Republicans are going to prey on that hatred.

[AspenRose]

73. True, dat.

These same republican southerners don't know what to do about Jimmy Carter, a protestant Christian DEMOCRAT....

[Judi Lynn]

68. The very people who sent out the massive disinformation

should be REQUIRED to correct their "error" by sending a second mailing to exactly the same sources they sent the lie in the first place.

It would be the ONLY honest way to correct this nasty, vicious error done to delude, mislead voters, and to immorally advance their candidate.

They should be required to do the right thing and clean up their crime.

[Chessy]

76. DNC Response Mailing

I know they won't do it, but how about the DNC do the exact same thing. Except it will be the Constitution that is banned and a picture of a toilet with minority rights going right down it.

[oldcoot]

78. I like your idea

Unlike the Republican ad, the Democratic ad would be accurate and truthful.

[nolabels]

79. Is there any common sense left in the world?

:crazy:

There are loads and loads of books everywhere you look. This fascination with these singular books seems so foolish.

I look at the idea of books as important, but can't think of any repair manuals that I have ever read were the final answer on how to fix a truck. I there was such a god and book that told about it, why or how could it get so screwed it up by the contemplation letting humans to be the ones to interpret the connections


http://www.sd13.org/~ktucker/reviews/universe.htm

Btw, I am not avid book reader but have nothing against people who are :hi:

[dean_dem]

83. Surprise, surprise

""What they are doing is despicable,'' said Don Parker, a spokesman for the alliance. "They are playing on people's fears and emotions."

Ummmmm, yeah. I thought that pretty much summed up the entire Republican Party platform.

[calimary]

87. So where are OUR campaign mailings that show flag-draped coffins

by the dozens with the caption "This will be some young person you love - if you vote for bush."

WHERE is our response?!?!?!??

[skip fox]

89. Hell, we don't want to ban the Bible. But making everyone register

their Bibles just makes good sense.

;-)

[clonebot]

97. if there was a second coming of christ...

i'd imagine it not as some book of revelations style cluster-fuck, but rather jesus would get a kickass promotion and p.r. company and get a gig at madison square and do a 'chris rock' style insult comic routine where he rips into all the fundamentalisms who jacked up what he said for hundreds and hundreds of years - and the crowd goes 'woooooooo!' 'thats some funny shit!' etc.. and it gets all the networks to broadcast it live and uncensored. if you look back in the new testament most of his sermons included humorous pokes and jabs at the wealthy elite classes and what not. probaly not 'ha-ha' funny by todays standards but probaly pretty funny for the poor to hear back then.

[Name removed]

101. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[quaoar]

109. Christians do not hate democracy.

First, I am a Christian and a liberal Democrat. The two are not mutually exclusive. The sooner you learn that, the better.

Second, we are not X-tians. Please do not use that phrase.

Third, Christianity is not a wholly owned subsidiary of the Republican Party, no matter what they might say. In fact, Jesus would likely recoil in horror if He returned today and saw what the right-wing has been doing in His name.

[classof56]

110. Well said! Thank you!

My biggest problem with the far-right-wing "fundies" is that they present Christ's message in a way that often results in the attitude you responded to. As a liberal, born-again Christian, I struggle with the closed minds and inflexibility of my fellow Christians who are now actually saying things like "God is a republican". I'm wondering if Jesus might be weeping for many of his followers, similar to how he wept for Jerusalem when he walked the earth. I'd personally like to see him whack a few of them with a rod of iron, but I guess that's not the way things work. Meanwhile, I wish those who hold Christ and his gospel in such disdain could find it in their hearts to be kinder to those of us who believe but have our wits about us. I'm not including Bush, I should clarify. I'm beginning to truly conclude he is using his "man of faith" persona to fool a whole lotta people and it may or may not come back to bite him. God's awfully long-suffering, I'll give Him that. Guess we should all be grateful He is, huh?

Top of my prayer list now: Get Bush outa here! Please??

[Swamp Rat]

112. Hey! Are you talking about me?

Why don't you respond directly to this "attitude"? What attitude and about whom are you talking?

[Name removed]

111. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Spiffarino]

113. Responding to your second point

I am a believer, but I use the term "X-tian" too. It doesn't mean "Christian" to me, which is a word that connotes worthy and good qualities. "X-tian" connotes someone who loudly claims to be a Christian but who, in actual practice, is nothing of the sort.

[librechik]

104. why can't we sue? That is really slander, you know.

Can you imagine liberals (freeliving, freeloving naked longhairs that conservatives,who DO ban books) wanting ANYTHING banned?

How stupid can people be?

[despairing optimist]

118. It's a good idea, but the country isn't ready for it.

I'm kidding, of course. The only people interested in banning books in this country are on the other side. They're the ones who think that merely trying to understand something is to condone it, so of course they seek to suppress that which they cannot control: freedom of thought.

The lunatics in the Republican party have taken over the asylum. They are preaching to the choir in this case. I don't want to believe that there are many undecideds out there who will be won over by this hysterical allegation.

[RebelOne]

123. I'm an atheist and I don't even condone banning the bible.

After all, it's a good book of fairy tales and myths with a little history thrown in.

[Spiffarino]

124. Myths and fairy tales

...are still valuable in any culture. You don't have to believe everything in it to appreciate it.

:D

[NVMojo]

127. nope, we are going to ban RepubliKons instead

that's where the real evil rules and lives...

[Moderator]

128. Locking

The discussion of the Republican mailing has long since passed.
In the future, avoid personal attacks and attacks on one another.
Attacks on Republicans are just fine, however. O8)