Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

US withhold N. Korean blast data from Seoul

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Latest Breaking News Donate to DU
 
TomClash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-12-04 11:55 AM
Original message
US withhold N. Korean blast data from Seoul
Intelligence aides said that U.S. data, which would be critical to decipher what happened on Wednesday and Thursday, were not handed over to the U.S.-South Korea Combined Forces Command. Several South Korean intelligence officials said that normally the United States would have delivered time-sequenced analyses of the explosion North Korea, but that such information was not made available.

http://joongangdaily.joins.com/200409/12/20040912223150...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
acmavm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-12-04 12:00 PM
Response to Original message
1. Funny, not telling one of our major allies the scoop on a 'forest fire'.
Wonder what that means?

And the South Koreans say it's an explosion? What are them North Korean trees made out of anyway?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jeff30997 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-12-04 12:03 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. It's well known that...
North Korean trees are made of TNT. :)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-12-04 12:06 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. aparently very high grade plutonium
if I am getting the gist of this correctly...

Gets worst than this... we are pulling troops out and aparently we are not gonig to play nice

As I said, the law of unintended consquences is gonna give us a nasty surprise (can we say a unified Korea by not so peaceful means and yes I am truly worst casing this)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Media_Lies_Daily Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-12-04 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #6
19. I see you're practicing a new Olympic sport: Jumping to Conclusions.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-12-04 01:02 PM
Response to Reply #19
27. Nope just that the size of the cloud is consistent with
a nuclear explosion, low yield, or a very bad industrial accident... given teh date and localtion inpossible to determine either way, so as my EMS training takes over, worst case it

(San Juanico in Mexico City comes to mind... the force of that explosion was akin with a very low yield nuclear explosion)

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
allemand Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-12-04 12:23 PM
Response to Reply #1
10. Chosun Ilbo: Gov't Confirms 'Non-Nuclear' N. Korean Explosion
http://english.chosun.com/w21data/html/news/200409/2004...

So that conclusion is based on their own data, I guess.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-12-04 11:33 PM
Response to Reply #1
45. It may not have been a nuke but what it could have been was...
a test of a detonation device.

The basic design of any atomic bomb (hydrogen is a whole other shooting match), is you need to develop a device that will implode down into the nuclear material. Back in the Manhattan project days, such devices were tested by the US. They are based on a series of "lens'" that focus the detonation inward.
They can be very sizable explosions.
The ones used by the US in WWII were TNT.
More than likely, it was something similar.
Usually after tests like this, they study the results. And more than likely, if in fact, that's what this was, a test should follow within the year.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jeff30997 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-12-04 12:00 PM
Response to Original message
2. Well if they retain information that means they have something to...
Hide,as usual.So my guess is it was a nuclear blast.If not why the secrecy ?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-12-04 12:07 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. And this woudl affect Goerge Bush exactly how
Edited on Sun Sep-12-04 12:08 PM by nadinbrzezinski
That is why they are hiding it, what is mazing to me is the spin in the US press, it is pure propaganda like you used to see in oh the old USSR
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Child_Of_Isis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-12-04 12:08 PM
Response to Reply #2
9. Yup!
This is all the proof that I need. It's like our media lay in waiting for the news to break from elsewhere then it began throwing out its own prepared counter news.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Media_Lies_Daily Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-12-04 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #2
15. Because they want people like yourself to believe the "blast"...
...had nuclear origins.

If it was a nuclear explosion of some sort, the foreign press would have been all over the story. We're not the only country capable of detecting radiation:

List of countries with nuclear weapons
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_with_nuc... >
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
blackcat77 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-12-04 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #2
23. Because Bush loves secrets
His administration has been obsessed with secrecy and paranoia since they took power and this would be SOP for them.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ohio rules Donating Member (283 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-12-04 07:28 PM
Response to Reply #2
36. Send in OSHA
find out if the munitions factories were completely flattened in that valley.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Nimrod Donating Member (999 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-12-04 12:01 PM
Response to Original message
3. Other nations are such children
I wonder how much more contempt the rest of the world is going to take from us?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
21winner Donating Member (374 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-12-04 12:04 PM
Response to Original message
5. No news yet.
An air test will provide the proof. It can't be covered up. That will be the story.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-12-04 12:08 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. You think China will share?
Japan may, Canada definitely, our own government? Yeah right... can I interest you in that nice beach front property in AZ
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
allemand Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-12-04 12:27 PM
Response to Reply #5
14. The blast happened on Thursday.
Both South Korea and Japan are advanced countries, capable of detecting nuclear fallout. This would be all over the news already.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Media_Lies_Daily Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-12-04 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. I don't think anyone wants to read a rational conclusion.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Quetzal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-12-04 12:24 PM
Response to Original message
11. Does Bush really think that he can hide this one?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-12-04 06:01 PM
Response to Reply #11
34. Remember how long the joint Israeli/S. African nuke tests were kept secret?
No US government official will admit to them taking place to this day. Long time.

Don

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BadGimp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-12-04 08:46 PM
Response to Reply #11
38. ahh Yes he does think he can hide it
and he will succeed...that's my guess
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-12-04 12:24 PM
Response to Original message
12. This whole thing just reeks... Of course we KNOW whether or not it
was a nuclear blast, yet Powell was on saying they did not think it was.... Good God...And the press does not even question that?!!!!!!!!!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LizW Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-12-04 12:27 PM
Response to Original message
13. Well, that makes Colin Powell a liar
He said this morning on MTP that we were working with all the surrounding nations around N Korea to contain N Korea's nuclear development. Apparently we're not working quite as closely with those nations as Powell would have us believe.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-12-04 12:31 PM
Response to Original message
16. The radiation detectors in neighboring countries should be off scale
if that was a nuclear explosion. I don't think the South Koreans and the Japanese would keep quiet in order to protect the Bush regime. If it really was a nuclear accident, we will find out soon enough no matter how many denials we get from Washington.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
truthisfreedom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-12-04 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #16
29. there would be many more detectors, one would think, than gov't provided
ones. i'm certain there's industrial radiation detectors as well as personal ones that concerned scientists have set up, plus think of all of the research facilities at universities... you'd think we would be seeing some news from somewhere by now.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
salin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-12-04 12:34 PM
Response to Original message
18. Anyone remember the flap about the admin sitting on NK nuke dev.
in order to get their IWR passed? I wrote a reminder post in GD (and am too lazy to repeat it - so instead... http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph... )

Perhaps it is relevant enough to remind those in the media of that story.. as it points to yet another dot in the picture of an administration that consistently puts national security issues second to immediate political gains.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Borgnine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-12-04 12:37 PM
Response to Original message
20. If it WAS a nuclear blast...
...why would the Bush Administration be trying to cover it up? Wouldn't this be the thing they were waiting for, to proclaim loudly that they'll protect us and John Kerry would lead us into a nuclear winter?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
salin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-12-04 12:40 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. Because it leaves the question open
why did they push to go to Iraq (where there were no WMDs) under the guise of a "gathering threat" (and allusions to a nuclear cloud)... when they had information at the time of the IWR (that they suppressed until after the vote) that NK was stepping up its Nuclear efforts. IF this is a nuclear blast - it looks very bad for the Bushies. Also rather makes Cheney's... it will be LESS safe under Kerry message lose some of its valence if all of these bad and dangerous things are likely to happen under bush/cheney as well...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
lapfog_1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-12-04 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #22
30. Meanwhile, back at the NK ranch

On October 6, 2002 President Bush addressed the nation, warning that
the Iraqi dictator must not be permitted to threaten America and
the world with atomic weapons. "If the Iraqi regime is able to
produce, buy, or steal an amount of highly-enriched uranium a
little larger than a single softball," Bush said, "it could have
a nuclear weapon in less than a year. And if we allow that to
happen, a terrible line would be crossed."

National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice told media, "We don't
want the smoking gun to be a mushroom cloud."

-------------------------------------------------------

Remember that we are SAFER with Bush/Cheney running the show!
Nope, no mushroom clouds here. Just forest fires. No reason
to lie about this or cover it up!

/sarcasm/
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bpilgrim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-12-04 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #20
24. this reality eruption would expose the LIE that the world is SAFER with *
and the neoCONs at the helm.

peace
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Red Fox Donating Member (83 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-12-04 07:44 PM
Response to Reply #20
37. Because that would be a lie they won't be able to suppress
If that was a nuclear blast and NK getting rowdy, what do you think the US will do? Absolutely nothing. Politically, economically, militaristic, attacking a NK with live nukes is a BAD thing to do.

It will be Vietnam but 10 times worse. No President, especially 2 months before the elections, is going to say something that suicidal.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Fleshdancer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-12-04 12:39 PM
Response to Original message
21. So we pull our troops from the region and now we don't share info?
Did South Korea do something to piss off the administration or something? What the hell is going on?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-12-04 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #21
25. law of unintended consequences
mostly and incomptence at the highest level and there are people out there who still defend George
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
blackcat77 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-12-04 01:01 PM
Response to Reply #21
26. Yes they did -- remember the demonstrations?
And of course there's the whole "sunshine" and re-unification efforts which run contrary to Bush's "us and them" mindset.

Bush probably would have opposed German re-unification if he'd been in power then.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cliss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-12-04 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #21
28. I believe that is the case.
There was a coup a while back, where we meddled (once again) and installed someone more friendly to US-interests.

It's my understanding that South Korea wants to reunite with N. Korea. We're seen as meddlers, standing in the way of a lovely reunion (?). Please correct me on this. I've been far too occupied with Iraq to pay attention to our back yard.

It's dangerous nonetheless.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DeepModem Mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-12-04 03:45 PM
Response to Original message
31. Any reports of any atmospheric tests being done? nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pinniped Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-12-04 04:50 PM
Response to Original message
32. No surprise here. The * regime also "allegedly" withheld reports...
that that South Korean dude was taken hostage a few months ago.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Robb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-12-04 05:29 PM
Response to Original message
33. I've been reading it's impossible to have been a nuke blast
...seismic stuff doesn't match. That doesn't take radiation sniffers, just run-of-the-mill seismologists. You measure that kind of thing from the other side of the globe.

Non-critical explosions are another matter, possible release of radiation etc. But impossible for it to have been a nuclear explosion in the weapons sense.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dave123williams Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-12-04 11:05 PM
Response to Reply #33
44. Seismometers...

A seismometer can't tell the difference between 20,000 tons of TNT and a 20Ktn nuclear blast.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sofa king Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-12-04 07:20 PM
Response to Original message
35. I'm wondering....
That blast happened in a heavily militarized district (as if they all aren't that way). It might have been a small a-bomb. Or, it could have been an industrial accident.

Or, it could have been a big-ass ammunition dump.

Which in combination with that giant train explosion back in April might mean something... interesting.

I wonder if maybe someone is trying to send the Dear Leader a message: that his country isn't as airtight as he would like everyone to believe it is. It's impossible to accurately guess who might be behind such incidents if they are in fact acts of aggression rather than accidents.

But one thing we can be reasonably certain about is that if the United States says it's a forest fire, it's not a forest fire. America now has a firmly established international reputation for telling anything but the naked truth, and our response here is no exception.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
0rganism Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-12-04 10:14 PM
Response to Original message
39. So, if it's not nuclear, what is it? Tactical Farters? Mecha-Streissand?
I would sure like to know more. What kind of non-nuclear explosions are the North Koreans making craters with these days?


Save us, Gamera Sidney Poitier!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-12-04 10:20 PM
Response to Reply #39
40. ok, ok I confess
it was my Atlas going critical.....


:-)

Bad reference to Mecha game... but hey it DOES HAVE a nuclear reactor.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
meisje Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-12-04 10:29 PM
Response to Original message
41. Here's some data
http://www.houshasen.tsuruga.fukui.jp/gie5f_f_e1000.htm...

I'm a little slow on my Korean, so I'm not sure what it is. I figure the blue line represents Kim's middle finger!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
psychopomp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-12-04 10:59 PM
Response to Reply #41
42. This is data from the nuke plant in Fukui, Japan
I can't tell much more than that as my kanji skills are not up to snuff. Anyhow, it is data regarding radiation readings in Fukui Prefecture.

I do not know what the blue spike is all about but it may be only related to nuke plants in Fukui.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ochazuke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-13-04 01:45 AM
Response to Reply #41
47. The blue line is rainfall or precipitation
Kousuiryo in Japanese.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-12-04 11:01 PM
Response to Original message
43. I've read the threads and links and have one question to ask
just what kind of explosion causes a 'cloud' to rise 2 miles into the sky and is powerful enough to set off seismic instruments on the other side of the planet?

Don't feed me that MOAB crap, I read the links and the biggest cloud from our MOAB went a few hundred feet (far shy of 2 miles). Not saying it was a nuke (I totally agree, EVERYONE would be on this issue like flies on shit), but how much conventional payload would it take to make an explosion of that magnitude?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sofa king Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-13-04 12:37 AM
Response to Reply #43
46. An ammunition dump would do it.
As I suggested before, touching off an ammo dump generally creates amongst the very largest explosions.

In Afghanistan in May of 2002 British Marines touched off four caverns of munitions suspected to have been cached by al Qaeda. Here's some of the description from CNN:

______________

Eyewitnesses said a 50-foot roar of flame burst from each of the cave entrances, and dozens of jets of tracer bullets shot all over the valley.

An enormous cloud of smoke and dust rose around 1,000 feet into the air and enveloped the valley, blocking out the sunlight.

A journalist at the scene said: "We watched from the closest vantage point of one kilometre away, and were still caught by a shower of dirt and earth that lasted 20 seconds."

http://www.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/asiapcf/central/05/11/afg...
________________

Ammunition dumps have in the past been highly sought-after targets. My father's good friend was present at what he called "the biggest fireworks show I wish I never saw" when the Viet Cong touched off an American ammunition dump, causing significant temporary disruption and casualties. (He remembers one officer commenting to another, "that sonofabitch in supply told me we didn't have any more green flares!")

I would also point out that another card-carrying member of the Axis of Evil has recently suffered a massive and somewhat suspicious industrial catastrophe. In Iran in February, another train loaded with fuel and chemicals ran away, crashed, exploded, and recorded a 3.6 on Iranian seismological instruments.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/02/18/world/main600...

There is a way to further magnify the destruction capability of conventional munitions and other products, which I don't feel inclined to repeat right now. Let's just say that "X" marks the spot and hopefully I'll need not remind you that plenty of us considered the possibility long before it happened.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Thu Aug 28th 2014, 06:57 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Latest Breaking News Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC