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pruner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-24-03 07:30 PM
Original message
U.S. checking possibility of pumping oil from northern Iraq to Haifa
Edited on Sun Aug-24-03 07:31 PM by pruner
U.S. checking possibility of pumping oil from northern Iraq to Haifa, via Jordan

By Amiram Cohen

The United States has asked Israel to check the possibility of pumping oil from Iraq to the oil refineries in Haifa. The request came in a telegram last week from a senior Pentagon official to a top Foreign Ministry official in Jerusalem.

The Prime Minister's Office, which views the pipeline to Haifa as a "bonus" the U.S. could give to Israel in return for its unequivocal support for the American-led campaign in Iraq, had asked the Americans for the official telegram.

The new pipeline would take oil from the Kirkuk area, where some 40 percent of Iraqi oil is produced, and transport it via Mosul, and then across Jordan to Israel. The U.S. telegram included a request for a cost estimate for repairing the Mosul-Haifa pipeline that was in use prior to 1948. During the War of Independence, the Iraqis stopped the flow of oil to Haifa and the pipeline fell into disrepair over the years.

<snip>

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=3...
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hadrons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-24-03 07:37 PM
Response to Original message
1. like this won't piss off the Muslim world ...
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PsychoDad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-25-03 04:11 AM
Response to Reply #1
39. It's not like the US cares...
What any muslims think. Not even american ones. Just ask Pipes.
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Maple Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-24-03 07:40 PM
Response to Original message
2. Sigh. Nothing like painting a target
on your forehead, and going 'nyah nyah' for getting shot.
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-24-03 07:41 PM
Response to Original message
3. Has anyone asked the Iraqi people about this?
Or don't they have a say so in regards to how their resources are disposed of by their foreign occupiers?

This story in Ha'aretz, a very reliable source I might add, is not the sort of headlines I would be trumpeting in the Middle East. It will be our troops in Iraq, and not the Israelis, that will bear the brunt of Iraqi anger.
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Herschel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-24-03 07:43 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Israel is an ally
I applaud war results that benefit her.
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Flubadubya Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-24-03 07:49 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. Yes Israel most certainly must share...
in our ill-gotten gains! Why not? (sarcasm off)
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atreides1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-24-03 07:53 PM
Response to Reply #5
10. And Now...
...once the oil is flowing to Haifa, Israel wiil send in 10,000 troops
so that US troops can go home.

Sounds good to me.
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-24-03 08:10 PM
Response to Reply #5
13. You meant to say, you applaud the "spoils of war," don't you?
Beware of what you wish for!

Americans were foolish enough to support a bunch of religious fanatics in their jihad against a socialist government in Afghanistan. It only created the Taliban and Osama bin Laden!

Americans were even more foolish in keeping US forces in Saudi Arabia to prop up the corrupt monarchy, and protect the oil. It only created Al-Qaeda and led to 9/11.

Imperialism is always wrong, and this particular version will do no one any good, particularly American interests in the region.
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short bus president Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-24-03 08:20 PM
Response to Reply #5
14. Israel is a DEPENDANT
not an ally.

Flame away.

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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-24-03 08:29 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. This is another neocon idea that will do more harm than good
and this is not the first time such a story has been published in the Israeli press. The advocates are usually the most radical members of Sharon's cabinet, and their neocon allies in America. I will point out that Sharon does not support this. Oh, sure, he would love to get oil from Iraq, but not as the result of American occupation but as part of a legitimate business deal with a post-Saddam Iraqi government.

Sharon is not stupid, unlike the neocons that are running our own country!
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QuietStorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-25-03 01:56 AM
Response to Reply #16
34. but I wonder in an article down in 9/11

there is suggestion that turkey is sending troops to iraq. and if you haven't read this perhaps you should. I am not saying I know what is what... but... just thoughts....

snip

Heres the outcome of the war: With the US invasion of Iraq and the downfall of the countrys regime, all of the oil agreements Russia and France made with Saddam Hussein in the past have now been rendered null and void. And Israel has replaced Russia and Germany, two countries dead set against the US war, in the Iraqi oil bazaar. The Israeli government has already begun laying the necessary groundwork to pump oil extracted in the northern Iraqi cities of Mosul and Kirkuk to its own soil. The plan is very simple, namely reopening the long-defunct oil pipeline from Mosul to the Mediterranean port of Haifa in northern Israel.

http://www.turkishpress.com/turkishpress/news.asp?ID=99...
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QuietStorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-25-03 02:02 AM
Response to Reply #16
35. correction (turkey considering sending troops)
Edited on Mon Aug-25-03 02:03 AM by QuietStorm
the article in 9/11 talks of intelligence on two trucks with explosives in irag but here are the articles regarding turkey sending troops.

snip
ANKARA, Aug 23: Turkey will send 10,000 troops to Iraq if the government decides to help the US-led coalition to restore stability there, Turkish Foreign Minister Abdullah Gul said in an interview published on Saturday.

"We have not made a decision yet, but if we decide to send troops, their number would be about 10,000," the minister told the tabloid Star newspaper.

http://www.hipakistan.com/en/detail.php?newsId=en36495&...

Turkey trying to persuade Pakistan to send troops
Friday, August 22 2003 @ 08:12 AM Eastern Daylight Time
Contributed by: Admin
Views: 109

NationalTurkey, not wanting to be the sole Muslim country that is sending troops to Iraq, is trying to win over Pakistan
ANKARA (Turkishnewsline) - Ankara is trying to decide whether to assist United States in Iraq by sending thousands of Turkish troops there. One of the worries for Turkey is to be seen as the sole Muslim majority country contributing to the international force.

US is not inclined to accept a force from Islamic Conference Organization countries, because there is a Arab majority. Meanwhile Turkey is trying to win over Pakistan.

http://www.turks.us/article.php?story=2003082208122340

--------------

of course Yassin sent out the word to pakistan to not accept israel's existence so there might be pakistani militants on the roll...

very combustible and complex situation.
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Malikshah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-24-03 08:55 PM
Response to Reply #5
21. Ally? Hardly
Three Events

Lavon Affair
USS Liberty
Jonathan Pollard

Flame away, discard as you will-- but with allies like these...

Think of it logically, if you will not accept the "wrongness" of this act, though.

Were this to take place, it would only cement in the minds of the Arab world, the Muslim world, Europe, Asia, the US -- that this war was an illegal land grab perpetrated by the neo-cons with ties to Israel. This is not an entirely accurate portrayal--but perception is everything.

Both the US and Israel will not benefit from this in the long run.

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QuietStorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-25-03 03:09 AM
Response to Reply #21
37. business partners perhaps

either one if they had to for their two separate causes would cut each others throats. Either one go behind each others back.
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alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-24-03 08:57 PM
Response to Reply #5
22. My comrades were on the USS Liberty.
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QuietStorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-25-03 03:08 AM
Response to Reply #22
36. my condolences your OWN country and MINE

abandoned you for that messianic pact. Another piece of the puzzle few want to hash out. Of course there are those that do factor it in to the total equation.

Loud and clear.
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Rose Siding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-25-03 12:23 AM
Response to Reply #5
29. So's France
What do they get?
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Mal Donating Member (213 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-25-03 01:13 AM
Response to Reply #5
31. Actually,
I think the word you're looking for is "Accomplice"
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QuietStorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-25-03 03:12 AM
Response to Reply #31
38. accompice for the time being

but the arab resistance is clearly not as squashable as all think unless some really plans on bring out the nukes. but best we watch up in the skies for Pakistani airforce. Conjecture. This will be no easy fight. I am talking off the top of my head based on tons and tons of reading still with gaps in my knowledge. Blood feuds. One never can account for the passion within blood feuds.
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RobinA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-24-03 07:42 PM
Response to Original message
4. This Idea
is spectacularly bad. No one, not even the current administration, would be quite this ill-advised.
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Gloria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-24-03 07:44 PM
Response to Original message
6. When do the Iraqi people get their "bonus"?
Amazing, the brazen and arrogant crap this bunch dishes out..
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ewagner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-24-03 07:46 PM
Response to Original message
7. Are they nuts?
Israel's friendship notwithstanding, the geopolitical implication of this stupidity would be to convince the rest of the Islamic world that the war was to steal oil for Israel.

It's an open invitation for more terrorism against us and Israel.
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FormerOstrich Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-24-03 07:50 PM
Response to Original message
9. Bullshit!
I'm sick of the Iraqi people and the US tax payers footing the bill for "bonuses". Plus, I'm sick of how we reward those that back this illegal war and occupation at the expense of those that speak up.

In response to rumors about the possible
Kirkuk-Mosul-Haifa pipeline, Turkey has warned
Israel that it would regard this development as
a serious blow to Turkish-Israeli relations.


Shouldn't Turkey consider it a blow with Turkish-US relations.
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Mika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-24-03 08:00 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. Is there a difference?
... Turkey has warned
Israel that it would regard this development as
a serious blow to Turkish-Israeli relations.


"Shouldn't Turkey consider it a blow with Turkish-US relations."



Same thing.

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Khephra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-24-03 08:01 PM
Response to Original message
12. No one's opinion on whether or not this is a good idea is going to matter
Tell me, seriously, what's the life expectancy of a pipeline to Israel during a time when pipelines are already being attacked?

That's one pipeline that will be gone soon...and in probably a spectactular fashion.
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Jacobin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-24-03 08:58 PM
Response to Reply #12
24. ding ding ding
It will be abandoned after daily sabotage and explosions make it more expensive to run than its worth.

It's a silly idea and it will never ever work.
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AnnabelLee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-24-03 08:28 PM
Response to Original message
15. I was wondering how long
it would be before this came up again. Another trip down memory lane...

Oil from Iraq : An Israeli pipedream?
http://www.janes.com/regional_news/africa_middle_east/n...

Israel seeks pipeline for Iraqi oil
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,940250,00.h...

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tlcandie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-24-03 08:31 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. Khephra.... was thinking the same thing...
I don't see it staying in business long, UNLESS the Israelis want to provide their soldiers to protect it?

I'm not even mentioning how horrible this is, BUT if they think or feel it is something they want to do then get the Israelis to repair, maintain and protect it! More power to them!
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-24-03 08:33 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. There is nothing wrong with Israel buying Iraqi oil
What is wrong is for the US occupation regime to make such a deal while denying sovereignty to the Iraqi people.

A sovereign Iraqi government is free to sell its oil to whoever it pleases. Saddam sold 10% of its oil to the US up until the very day Bush invaded. Why shouldn't an unoccupied Iraq sell its oil to Israel?
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AnnabelLee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-24-03 08:49 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. If the Iraqi people want to sell oil to Israel,
that is their business. The article in the OP says that the US (read bushco) is checking into the possibility of pumping oil from Iraq to Israel, not a legitimately elected government of an unoccupied Iraq.
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Aidoneus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-24-03 08:47 PM
Response to Original message
19. it's the thought that counts
for it doesn't matter, that pipeline has a giant "KICK ME" sign on it as far as the resistance is concerned if it does get off the ground.
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yellowcanine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-24-03 08:57 PM
Response to Original message
23. I thought Poindexter was quitting.
This sounds like one of his brilliant ideas. Of course Elliot Abrams is still there. He is capable of an idea like this.
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Wwagsthedog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-24-03 10:01 PM
Response to Original message
25. Anyone ask the Jordanians about this?
Why are we so sure that the Jordanians will cooperate? For instance, Ahmed Chalabi, who is on the Iraqi "Governing Council", is a convicted felon in Jordan. There are probably plenty of more political problems (ie. Turks) than this one.

With no known maintenance for many years, the "pipeline" may be little more than a "right-of-way" today. Anyone familiar with the industry will tell you that pipelines, pump stations, etc., require lots of care. We would have to start from scratch. $$$$$

My last point is something that has plagued the USA everywhere in Iraq. It will be very difficult to provide the kind of security needed to rebuild a pipeline let alone operate it. If all the problems noted are solved, it would be many years before a drop of crude flows to Haifa.

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wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-25-03 12:01 AM
Response to Reply #25
27. Jordanians will have a piece of the pie
Bygones will be Bygones when $Billions are at stake
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-25-03 12:15 AM
Response to Reply #27
28. Except that the money never goes to the people
it always ends up in the pockets of the corrupt rulers of the Middle East.

In Jordan in particular, where over 60-percent of its population is Palestinian, it would destabilize the Hashemite Kingdom to agree to such a deal. Consider this: the oil will be used to power the bulldozers that Israel uses to destroy Palestinian homes, and the tanks that fire on Palestinian people, and the jets that bomb Palestinian villages.

This deal is not possible until after Iraq is free from the American occupation and the Palestinians have their own state.
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mourningdove92 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-24-03 10:35 PM
Response to Original message
26. Oh Puhleese
Its hard to believe that even Dubya could be that stupid. I have nothing against Israel, but this would be an extremely dangerous move. The Arabs would go nuts.
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legin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-25-03 12:59 AM
Response to Original message
30. Quick bit of info
israel currently gets its oil from Russia, Southern Russia/Caspian Sea I assume.
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legin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-25-03 01:37 AM
Response to Original message
32. At last what i been looking for
A snip regading the Iraq-Turkey pipeline (which might be what this story is really about)

"Once exports begin steadily, Turkey would be in a position to collect some $500,000 per day in transit fees. This volume could rise if Iraqi production stabilizes. (Transit fees run between 43 cents and 75 cents per barrel.)"



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QuietStorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-25-03 01:54 AM
Response to Reply #32
33. hey check out what turkishpress said in April

snip

Heres the outcome of the war: With the US invasion of Iraq and the downfall of the countrys regime, all of the oil agreements Russia and France made with Saddam Hussein in the past have now been rendered null and void. And Israel has replaced Russia and Germany, two countries dead set against the US war, in the Iraqi oil bazaar. The Israeli government has already begun laying the necessary groundwork to pump oil extracted in the northern Iraqi cities of Mosul and Kirkuk to its own soil. The plan is very simple, namely reopening the long-defunct oil pipeline from Mosul to the

http://www.turkishpress.com/turkishpress/news.asp?ID=99...

they are busting up OPEC.
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cmd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-25-03 04:25 AM
Response to Reply #33
40. and Syria is in the way
Target identified.
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Aidoneus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-03 12:12 AM
Response to Reply #40
45. not quite
at one point there was 2 western routs out of Kirkuk fields, one across Jordan to Haifa, the other across Syria to Tripoli, Lebanon. The Haifa route appears to cut very slightly across a SW extremity of Syrian land, but in the Golan Heights--a region illegally occupied, annexed, and colonized by Israel at the current time.
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German-Lefty Donating Member (568 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-25-03 04:29 AM
Response to Original message
41. I almost hope they do it.
Then it will be so damn obvious, that sooner or later there will have to be a political backlash.
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stickdog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-25-03 06:49 AM
Response to Original message
42. Great idea. Turkey will be thrilled. (NT)
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ikojo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-25-03 06:53 AM
Response to Original message
43. Yes, perception is everything....
It does not look good for Israel to be benefitting from the War on Iraq. Even though we all know the war was not fought for Israel's benefit the people on the streets in Palestine, Jordan, Syria and Egypt don't see it that way.

What they see is this:
An administration with a lot of Jewish neo-cons setting foreign policy. Most Arabs think all Jews put Israel above all else so it stands to reason that they would see this as a payback to the neo-cons.

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VolcanoJen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-03 12:00 AM
Response to Original message
44. kick
:dem:
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