Ivan Cat 5 Hurricane; Florida at risk, Evacuation Ordered

[GOPAgainstGW]

Miami Hearld - 9/9/04
http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/9618529.htm
Access Code to read article: [email protected]/bogus1

Hurricane Ivan exploded into a top-line Category 5 storm this morning, hurricane forecasters said Florida -- including South Florida -- appeared to be in great danger, and officials in the Florida Keys ordered the first phase of a total evacuation.

They told tourists and residents of mobile homes to leave today. They said a phased evacuation of all other Keys residents will begin Friday. At least 83,000 residents and tourists are in the Keys this week, officials said.

First stage of a mass Florida evacuation ordered that will include an airlift of hospital patients.

---------

[Cha]

1. Scary Shit! Like a duer said last night...

paraphasing..It hardly seems fair, three right in a row!:(

[HarveyBriggs]

8. It's quite fair.

Throw an election, and it has consenquences.

Seems like the Republicans like to toss around the notion that they are the party of
God. Well the ones down in Forida that threw the election can learn to deal with the wrath.

Same goes for those that voted for Nader down there -- well your environment is striking back for that disasterous vote.

Right now it seems like Sodom and Gomorrah had nothing on this little Bush fiefdom.

Harvey Briggs

[drumz4hire]

13. This has got to be....

the most idiotic post I've ever seen on this board.

You do realize that many good loyal democrats have
been devastated by these hurricanes too, don't you?

My elderly mother-in-law, a lifelong Democrat, had
her home demolished by frances, are you saying she
deserved it?

I'm sorry, but anyone who believes these storms are
some sort of "divine retribution" for the 2000 election
fiasco is a moron.

[CatWoman]

21. You may find it idiotic

but I agree with Harvey.

[drumz4hire]

26. you're right...

but idiotic would be an understatement

I sure hope you and your cats never have to
deal with a catastrophe, someone might think
you deserved it :eyes:

[CatWoman]

29. I have no control over how others think

I can only tell you how I think.

[QC]

82. Perhaps you should not tell everyone everything you think,

lest you come across as a self-righteous, heartless fool.

[Seabiscuit]

34. It seemed pretty clear to me

that Harvey was just joking around. He meant no harm to Democrats suffering in Florida.

[Lorien]

70. Thanks drumz4hire. Both Charley and Frances hit my home

and I'm currently staying in Ohio with my three cats while waiting out Ivan. I fought for Gore in 2000 in Central Florida, where I witnessed the corruption first hand. Cops intimadating blacks (saying things like "what ya gonna do when you're boy loses? Ya gonna cry"?"), pulling over buses from African American churches that were full of voters, and demanding to see "taxi licenses" (and making them unload when they weren't produced), polls shutting early in minority neighborhoods. WE FOUGHT THE GOOD FIGHT! Don't let ANYONE tell you "Florida" voted for Bush*! We marched on Tallahassee, but the Dems in WASHINGTON didn't fight along with us. Where's THEIR hurricanes!? If it's "devine retribution", then why hasn't Tallahassee been clobbered twice?

Being a hurricane survivor, I would NEVER wish one on ANYONE. That others believe those that voted dem still deserve to lose their homes and possibly their lives is disgusting beyond belief!

[Anaxamander]

19. That's a completely stupid

and fucked up thing to say. Even if you're kidding. And in case you haven't noticed, Florida is not a Bush stronghold. It was a Gore state and it's a battleground state this year.

[mcar]

24. What about the rest of us?

That's as stupid as saying the gays brought on 9/11. Sheesh.

[Emboldened Chimp]

25. Newsflash: Hurricanes are not political

They devastate the lives of democrats, republicans and independents alike.

I swear, people post some seriously ridiculous shit on this board. Not everything is political, folks.

[Misunderestimator]

27. No offense, but I am getting a little tired of hearing that Florida ....

"deserves" three hurricanes in a row because of the corruption of certain officials. Those people won't even be here when it hits, and certainly won't be devastated like a lot of average and poor people will be.

And plenty of other states went for Bush... should we send Ivan their way?

At least the majority of Floridians really DID vote for Gore over Bush.

On edit... better yet, let's all go out and huff and puff westward so that we can redirect it to hit Texas. Forget all those Texas democrats... after all, WHY would they choose to live there? (And that was purely sarcastic, since I have a lot of family there.)

[HarveyBriggs]

44. FYI All

I used to live in Florida.

I've been through a hurricane.

I moved.

I learned quickly that the gene pool has a cleaning service.

If you or your loved ones aren't bright enough to realize that hurricanes are really dangerous, then don't go pointing fingers at Charles Darwin when the natural selection bill comes due.

Look, once Grandma evacuates and all her things are destroyed she doesn't have to go back. That goes double when The Weather Channel reports storms in the Atlantic are stacked up like 747s at O'Hare on a Friday afternoon.

Frankly, if you sent Granny to retire in a disaster zone don't tell me that I'm the one who doesn't love her. At least the Eskimos understand that when their old folks hop an iceberg, that sucker is going to melt.

One reason I can't stand George Bush is because he's a dummy. Why should you get a "Get out of Stupidity Free" pass?

And, yes, I had my cheek full of my own tongue when I first posted. Still do.

Because when I see people, time and again, going through hurricane after hurricane then I lose a little sympathy for them.

"Run, Forrest, Run!"

I'm beginning to believe that Disney World is more than a tourist destination in Florida, but more like some state of denial in which people live.

Now, have the storms gotten Jeb and Kathleen, yet?

Harvey Briggs

[Misunderestimator]

45. And I'll say it again... no hurricane has hit SW Florida or Central FL

in over 75 years! How is that "hurricane after hurricane" ?? :wtf:

The Carolinas have seen far more hurricanes than Florida. Should they get your "Get out of Stupidity Free" pass too? Sheesh.

[yardwork]

60. Every region in the country has natural disasters

The suggestion that natural disasters are some kind of divine retribution for butterfly ballots is absurd. I've mocked Pat Robertson's comments about this in the past. Let's not lower ourselves to the level of right-wing TV evangelists for crying out loud!

[Name removed]

49. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Sophree]

73. I live in Florida

And right about now I'm questioning my sanity, if not my IQ.

But my family lives here because this is where my Dad's job is. We have a close family and we'd rather brave the elements together than be "safe" apart. His house is hurricane proof, luckily enough.

Besides, people here think that anyone who lives out West is crazy. They think that an earthquake will open up the ground and swallow them whole. lol

They say, "At least we have warning before a hurricane. You don't know when an earthquake is going to hit."

After living through one hurricane already, with another on the way- no power, no AC, and I still can't find any store that has restocked C batteries to replace the ones we used during Frances- I'd MUCH prefer an earthquake. At least it's over after a couple minutes at most.

[Scooter24]

2. They are reporting

160mph sustained winds...but they have reported scattered recordings of around 180mph. My prayers are will all...

[papau]

30. 11 AM Thursday Projected Path below

[SidDithers]

54. That's shifted west from the 5am projected path...

I was hoping it would keep going east, and miss Florida completely. Doesn't look like that's going to happen.

Family of mine, who live outside of Tampa, managed to get out yesterday. They flew to Detroit and drove to Toronto. Looks like they made the right choice.

Stay safe, Florida DU'ers.

Sid

[TahitiNut]

66. 5 PM Thursday Projected Path below

[papau]

74. 11AM Friday projected path

http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/ftp/graphics/AT09/refresh/AL0904W5+GIF/101508W5.gif

http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/ftp/graphics/AT09/refresh/AL0904W+GIF/101508W.gif

www.nhc.noaa.gov

[papau]

84. 5pm Friday path

http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/ftp/graphics/AT09/refresh/AL0904W+GIF/102038W.gif

http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/ftp/graphics/AT09/refresh/AL0904W5+GIF/102038W5.gif

[Love Bug]

3. Good lord, not again

[LuminousX]

4. Tell me again... why do people choose to live there?

[Ganja Ninja]

9. No snow!

As a former resident of Michigan I don't miss snow at all.

[Anaxamander]

20. Because you go to college here,

because you like the beach, because you're retired, or because you're fucking BORN here and it's your home.

[GOPAgainstGW]

37. All the Mobile Homes is what is crazy.

[QC]

81. That's all some people can afford to live in. n/t

[MUSTANG_2004]

38. Because it's a wonderful place to live and hurricanes are rare

Well, they used to be rare. After 30+ years living near the coast of Florida, until this year I'd only been in a handful hurricane/tropical storm "watch" alerts. For me, this year has had more activity than any prior 5 years combined.

Its nerve-wracking to watch them come in. Now, with Ivan's track moving closer and closer to Tampa, I'm thinking of our huge oak trees. After Frances, the yard was waterlogged and the ground is soft(so much water that your shoes sink into the mud). If we get hit with more wind and rain this week, I have a feeling that one might topple over.

[molly]

5. OMG!

:scared:

This will be the worst one of the 3.

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

6. There's only 1 road out of the Keys

:scared:

[phantom power]

7. That's like a tornado. 80 miles wide.

[progressivebydesign]

10. OMG. My thoughts are with the Floridians today...

This is unbelievable. I hope everyone stays safe.

[GOPAgainstGW]

11. Ivan-Latest Update & Projection Map: National Hurricane Center

09.09.04-11:00 Update

http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/

IVAN - CATEGORY 5,

ESTIMATED MINIMUM CENTRAL PRESSURE IS 920 MB...27.17 INCHES.

SUSTAINED WINDS 160MPH, GUSTS to 195MPH

Maps: http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/refresh/graphics_astorm9+shtml/091538.shtml?

[theHandpuppet]

14. If that path takes just a bit more westerly turn...

... Ivan will not encounter the mountainous region of Cuba and could retain much more of its power after crossing the island nation. If it doesn't take that northerly turn then folks from Pensacola to Mobile to New Orleans better watch out!

Right now my thoughts are with the poor folks in Jamaica and Cuba. Looks like they will feel the full force of this monster.

[GOPAgainstGW]

17. Yes Jamacia will be devastated and all are in our prayers!

------------------------------
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Against Bush-Cheney ’04, Inc.
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[JCMach1]

28. Jamaica will be pulverized...

:(

[Aidoneus]

56. and then Cuba gets the same treatment

the effect it had on Grenada is a bad omen on what they have in store..

[JoFerret]

80. Jamaica and Cuba

...stand to be devastated. It's not that I am privileging them about any other places but they probably have the fewest resources with which to rebound and rebuild should the devastation strike. Rather like Hurricane Andrfew striking Homestead rather than a richer area where the houses are more substantial and the people may have more personal resources on which to fall back.

[onehandle]

15. Damn! Swinging back towards the center of Florida.

The last map this morning showed it moving more off towards the Atlantic.

crud.

[JCMach1]

31. Not good at all... some people will JUST have power back

from Frances

[0007]

69. Any report from Cuba and the Hurricane?

[madfloridian]

12. Do they have access to gas to evacuate? Many areas are out.

Scary.

[theHandpuppet]

16. Rather than bags of ice...

... maybe our idiot-in-charge should have ordered in a fleet of tankers. From what I understand, the stations ran out of gas because they normally let their reserves run low at the end of the month in order to avoid paying the tax. Sure seems to me this could have/should have been foreseen by Gov. Jeb Bush!! Now it's too late. These folks won't have the means to evacuate.

[Misunderestimator]

32. Precisely why I am not going anywhere. I'd rather be in my concrete home

than stuck without gas by the side of the highway in the middle of the hurricane.

[shanti]

58. even concrete block homes

are not safe from ivan. :-(

[Misunderestimator]

59. Yes, I understand that... but cars stuck without gas on the highway

have even less protection.

[Az_lefty]

18. Oh shit! Cat 5????

Florida is just getting hammered this season. I used to live in Cocoa Beach and I remember some bad storms but not like this.
:scared:

[TrustingDog]

22. I'm speechless... I don't know what to say...

this is so unbelievably horrific - those poor people, my heart is breaking for them.

[RebelOne]

23. It looks like after it slams Florida that it is going to head

right up here to Georgia. We all are still recovering from the remnants of Frances. Some people are still without power.

[readmylips]

33. Florida is all beach area, why not evacuate by water?

A couple of US Military carriers can evacuate more efficiently and they can also be used as shelters far away from Florida. There are plenty of carriers just sitting in the Virginia ports. If there's no gas, how can people get out?

Where my daughter works government fleet of cars are being used for carpooling. Workers revolted and demanded those government cars to be used or they couldn't report to work. Lower management said they needed to ask Jeb bush for permission. The manager in charge of the car fleet ordered all government cars to be used for car pooling, until jeb bush decides what to do. By that time, Ivan would be over Florida. My daughter can't find gas in the Orlando outskirts.

Little bush was handing out ice bags, but you can't use ice to run your car.

[Misunderestimator]

48. Not a bad idea... and all the cruise ships in Miami and Fort Lauderdale

could be used as well.

[donsu]

35. Global Warming - the personal is political

nt

[JCMach1]

36. Too early to say if it's global warming... FL gets nailed

periodically

The 1930's were especially bad!

1933 -- August storm swamps eastern Virginia
This year was the busiest hurricane season on record with 21 hurricanes and tropical storms.

1935 -- 'Labor Day' hurricane hits Florida Keys
This storm slammed into the keys on Sept. 2, then turned north in the southeastern United States. The wind and tides were responsible for 408 deaths in the Florida Keys, primarily among World War I veterans working in the area. This was the most intense hurricane ever to strike the United States...
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/weather/hurricane/sfl-hc-history-1900to1950,0,142763.htmlstory

[depakid]

43. I guess when all those nice houses along the intercoastal

get flooded due to rising sea levels, then we'll know for certain there was something to that darn global warming thing....

[JCMach1]

47. Global warming is real... I am just skeptical when people

attribute every weather phenomenon to it...

This year has been an interesting weather pattern...

1. stronger than normal monsoons in India and Bangladesh
2. torrential rainy season in China
3. Power hurricanes and typhoons
4. Lower than avg. temperatures in the middle-east and elsewhere... (Cloud cover from all of the above???)

This no doubt will lead to a very interesting winter...

[hatrack]

71. You can say that this is consistent with warming projections

However, that's a long way from linking a point event like a hurricane, or even a series of hurricanes, with general climate trends.

[GOPAgainstGW]

39. Yes, Gas & Electricity Shortage a Big Problem Still

All total 388,400 still without power. - 9/9/04

Florida Power & Light is in the last stages of restoring power to South Florida residents left in the dark by Hurricane Frances.

As of this morning, only 3,200 Miami-Dade customers were still without power, some 420,200 have been reconnected.

In Broward, 41,300 homes are without electricity, but 549,300 can again switch on their lights.

The situation in Palm Beach County is more severe, but FPL has passed the 50 percent restoration mark. Some 271,600 residents still lack electricity,

FPL is scheduled to close its emergency staging site in North Miami on Friday to move to affected areas northward.

[SidDithers]

57. Hydro One (public utility in Ontario) is sending 130 trucks...

and 240 technicians down to Florida to help with restoration of power. They left today in 4 convoys, and the plan was to get there on Saturday. I wonder if they'll hole up in TN or GA instead of getting to FL just in time for Ivan.

Sid

[Dyedinthewoolliberal]

40. Watch for the GOP

to somehow say this is all Bill Clintons fault! :)

[GOPAgainstGW]

42. Of course, we all know Bill is GOD..lol!

[Arcturus]

63. The hurricanes hate us for our freedoms.

[GOPAgainstGW]

41. Today's Miami News Article on South Florida Gasoline Shortage

Florida races to replenish fuel
Posted on Thu, Sep. 09, 2004
http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/state/9613188.htm
To read article-Miami Hearld: [email protected]/miamivice

Florida races to replenish fuel. Hurricane evacuations and blocked supply routes depleted the state's fuel supplies. Now officials are scrambling to make gas available as Ivan looms.

With Florida experiencing short supplies of gasoline and diesel as Hurricane Ivan looms, Gov. Jeb Bush said Wednesday that fuel companies are rushing to build up the state's reserves. Touring a Citgo terminal at the Port of Tampa, Bush said such shortages are to be expected as residents heed evacuation warnings. Hurricane Frances interrupted ship traffic around Florida, caused the state's ports to close for several days and shut down a key gas pipeline that supplies Central Florida from the Port of Tampa.

The gasoline supply is coming in as quickly as humanly possible, Bush said. I know people are frustrated, and who blames them? Floridians burn 26.5 million gallons of gasoline and diesel fuel each day. Each tanker brings 12 million to 14 million gallons to port.

<snip>

[GOPAgainstGW]

46. Hurricane Ivan Roars Toward Jamaica

25 minutes ago
By HAROLD QUASH, Associated Press Writer
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&e=1&u=/ap/20040909/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/hurricane_ivan

ST. GEORGE'S, Grenada - Hurricane Ivan intensified Thursday, heading straight for Jamaica and possibly Florida with 160 mph winds after it killed at least 16 people while pummeling Grenada, Barbados and other islands. Foreigners began fleeing Jamaica, and U.S. officials ordered people to evacuate the Florida Keys.

<snip>

[ilyashl]

50. global warming at work?

I wonder why no one is linking the Florida hurricanes to Bush policies. Hurricanes may be caused by global warming (see http://www.ipcc.ch). Global warming is caused by greenhouse gas emissions. Bush has consistently opposed curbs on emissions. Why aren't Floridians outraged?

[slackmaster]

61. Floridians are too busy to be outraged

They're concerned with securing their homes and getting to safety.

[yardwork]

62. Hurricanes are a natural part of our world and they do a lot of good

for the environment. Our problem is that man's buildings get in the way and people are injured or killed.

For the big-picture environment, hurricanes do a lot of good. They clean out waterways, flush out pollutants and stagnant water, and stir up the ocean waters. They refill deep underground aquivers with fresh water. Even by knocking down trees they help new plants grow, ensuring a diversity of plant and animal life.

In the short term they are disasters. In the long term they are good for the globe. Unfortunately, they do tremendous damage to the way that man wants to live.

None of this is any comfort to the people enduring the aftermath and bracing themselves for new storms. In the long term, though, humans would do well to rethink waterfront development. We would do well to adapt our lifestyles to the reality of weather.

[Castilleja]

72. This is absolutely the wisest post on this subject

that I have seen yet. All very good points. Best to adapt to the risks of weather since the weather won't adapt to your presence. Heavy coastal development really does need to be rethought.

[barb162]

77. can't agree with you more about waterfront development

in known hurricane areas. Make these areas national seashores.

[Almost_there]

51. Wish them the best of luck...

I'm not a big fan of blaming hurricanes on global warming, especially when you look at the history of hurricanes, this season isn't a mega season, just bad tracks, not enough spinning off into the Atlantic or into the Gulf. Plus, there is a reason its called "Hurricane Season", because well, it is the season for hurricanes. Hot, dry weather in Africa = lots of big hurricanes.

Good luck to the folks affected, and good luck to those trying to avoid this monster.

[DaveSZ]

52. God is pissed

http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/ftp/graphics/AT09/refresh/AL0904W5+GIF/090853W5.gif

[tblue37]

53. I find myself worrying

that the people who are least able to function after being hit by all these hurricanes are the ones who are most likely to vote Dem--i.e., the poor, African-Americans, the elderly. I could see the well-heeled making it to the polls while those less well off don't, because of the chaos and because they have too much else going on.

I also worry that the chaos in Florida will make it that much easier for the Republicans to play the voter fraud game and steal the election.

[DaveSZ]

55. I agree

It will be much easier for Jeb to steal the state now.

[GOPAgainstGW]

64. LATEST HURRICANE IVAN - NHC MAP PROJECTIONS

September 9, 2004
(1) Latest 5:00pm EST Map:
(2) This morning 11:00am EST Map

[Jacobin]

65. Latest projections have it going a bit more to the west

Time will tell, I guess.

Someone is going to get hammered.

[hatrack]

67. Jamaica is going to get flattened

I hope the people there are hunkered down - I know I would be!

[GOPAgainstGW]

68. LATEST HURR IVAN PROJECTIONS-9/10/04

[hatrack]

75. 11:00 AM Update - Track Moving Straight At Key West, Later Tampa

http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/ftp/graphics/AT09/refresh/AL0904W5+GIF/101508W5.gif

[GOPAgainstGW]

76. Ouch - The new Hurricane Ivan Projections for Florida Look Bad

Based on the latest multi-linear Ivan projections it looks bad for Florida. The experts really cannot predict hurricanes that well, but at this point it looks like Florida is going to need a serious break, to keep from taking a direct Cat 4+ hit from Ivan.

Gosh, God is obviously angry with Jeb and George for rigging that 2000 Prez election.

[Xenus Sister]

78. Ignorant question

Why do the projections have Ivan turning to the north instead of heading straight up toward Louisiana/Mississippi/Alabama?

Stay safe folks. My thoughts are with you. I live in Chicago but I'm following all this with dreaded fascination. My dad has a place in the Florida panhandle (though he's in Kansas now) so I always keep an eye on Gulf hurricanes.

[hatrack]

79. It's all a question of what the weather to the north is doing

Ivan will move towards areas of lower pressure, but be repelled by high-pressure waves, like a cold front, for example. This is something of an oversimplification, but what the heck.

Anyway, what NHC does is monitor what's happening in the Mississippi Valley, over the Gulf of Mexico and in the Atlantic and try to predict in which direction Ivan will be pulled by relatively low-pressure weather. Naturally, since the weather's always changing, the storm track changes along with it.

[Gingersnapsback]

83. Looking for temp construction work in FL

Does anyone have contacts? What do you need to go there to work? Truck, tools, references, liability insurance? :-)

[GOPAgainstGW]

85. UPDATE HURRICANE IVAN 8:00 EST 9/11/04

AT 8 AM EDT...1200Z...THE EYE OF HURRICANE IVAN WAS LOCATED NEAR
LATITUDE 17.7 NORTH...LONGITUDE 78.4 WEST. THIS POSITION IS JUST
SOUTH OF THE WESTERN TIP OF JAMAICA OR ABOUT 60 MILES...95 KM...
SOUTH OF MONTEGO BAY JAMAICA. IVAN IS MOVING TOWARD THE WEST-NORTHWEST TRACK NEAR 8 MPH...13 KM/HR. ON THIS TRACK...IVAN SHOULD MOVE NEAR THE CAYMAN ISLANDS IN ABOUT 24 HOURS.

EST MIN CENTRAL PRESSURE: 923 MB...27.26 INCHES.
SUSTAINED WINDS: 155
MAXIMUM WINDS: 185
(3RD STRONGEST HURRICANE ON RECORD)

[GOPAgainstGW]

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