Suspect arrested in vicious attack on cop

[Freddie Stubbs]

September 1, 2004 --


A suspect was arrested last night in the vicious beating of a cop at a protest Monday, a law-enforcement source said.

Jamal Holiday of Manhattan, who turns 20 today, will likely be spending his birthday in jail for assaulting Detective William Sample Jr., according to the source.

Sample, meanwhile, was on the mend at home.

The 10-year veteran who usually investigates taxi-business crimes, was badly bruised and suffered internal injuries in the attack that Mayor Bloomberg called "outrageous."

more: http://www.nypost.com/news/regionalnews/27900.htm

[el_gato]

1. notice the adjective "vicious" yet when cops beat the shit out of people

this adjective or any other that would cast a negative light
on the actions of the cop is ever used.

The cops are servants of the facist corporate oligarchy.

[T Wolf]

2. How "vicious" could it have been

if the cop is out of the hospital so quick?

[FatSlob]

4. Maybe you should condemn...

the piece of human shit who allegedly did this, not the language that was used in describing the attack. I hope that Jamal spends years in prison, if he is found guilty.

edited to add stuff to clarify that he is innocent until proven guilty.

[el_gato]

5. Fact is you know nothing about the actual event

meanwhile the cops have been beating the shit out of protestors for as long as there have been protests.

The cops are functionaries of the corporate establishment.
They are not there to "protect" you and they are not there to
"serve" you. They are there to make sure the status quo remains.

[Ripley]

9. That's pretty harsh.

Cops have protected me and my property before. Are you saying we shouldn't have cops? Some clearly have abused people, but not all.

Isn't the Post just a flame rag anyway? I think their use of the word vicious is just for sales.

[el_gato]

47. Not really

Sure there are some "good" cops but the institution itself is
and always has been a handmaiden of the merchant class, i.e.
the corporate elite. It is this class that created the institution
of policing.

[RivetJoint]

48. The perhaps we should just stop policing in

poor neighborhoods and see what happens? Like pull all the cops out of SE Washington DC?

[SquireJons]

55. Actually, we did.

It's pretty well documented that poor neighborhoods receive lousy police protection or even presence. The vast majority of crimes go unsolved and in many cases undetected.

Cops themselves are just people. Some motivated to do good and help others; but some just wanting to exercise power. Like soldiers, they do what they are told. How else to explain why black cops in New Jersey (and here in my home town, also) would participate in an undisclosed policy of pulling drivers over simply because they are black? This has been documented and the officers who came forward won their case, and ruined their lives.

As an institution, the police force has always done the bidding of their masters. This group has shifted somewhat over time, but it is certainly not the public at large. And in fact, it seems to have come full circle, to the point where cops are the army sent in to break up protests, break strikes, evict people from their homes, and protect the assets of the super elite. Just like they did in the late 19th century.

[RivetJoint]

58. You obviously don't drive thru or live

in SE. Police presence is high; DEMANDED by the residents to help stem the spate of violence that has proliferated throughout the area.

Seems as if you would prefer NO police; let everyone fend for themselves. I guarantee that the "elite" would develop a private police force, TOTALLY unaccountable to the general public, which would protect only them.

[Dhalgren]

94. Actually, the police ARE the private security force

for the economic elite. There is a certain amount of "stability" that must be maintained in order for the elite to maintain their status. It is that amount of policing that is accorded to the poorer classes. This has been blatanly clear throughout the history of this country. The police are a political entity and politics is controlled by the elite. Everything that the police (in general) do is for the protection and betterment of the elite, if that also gives some "coverage" to the poorer classes, it can be called "colateral" coverage.

[SquireJons]

100. I grew up in D.C.

Been here all my life (43 y/o). And I live an hour and a half away now. I know D.C very well. If your point is to say that D.C police have an aggressive approach to crime in S.E. Washington... well, I just don't know how to respond politely.

S.E. Washington D.C. is a poster child for my comments. I graduated high school at the Shrine of Emasculate Conception (what a name) which is in S.E. and it's not safe to walk to your car there. The only place I know of that's worse is Annocostia and P.G. County (which are right next door).

In addition, D.C. cops are some of the poorest trained and most corrupt officers in the country. In fact, the entire D.C. municipal government is corrupt. I can't believe you used them as an example of anything good. D.C. is literally falling apart, and 40 years ago it was a model city.

But back to the cops. If you think driving around in wolfpacks, but afraid to get out of their cars for lack of community support is 'presence', than I can see why you might want to live there. I stick by my earlier comments: Despite the sincere concern of individual officers, the police do not protect the poor. Their true mission is to protect property.

[neomonkey]

14. I condemn

The corporatist, establishment media which uses such adjectives which best serve the interests of their masters.

el gato is a 100% correct - that was my first instinct. I would frankly piss my pants if I saw CNN or the NYT write "the police viciously beat a protestor..."

[jayfish]

20. Don't Count On It, But Even If They Did...

they would be sure to immediately follow-up with, something along the lines of, "officer claims genital constriction led to beating".

Jay

[coalition_unwilling]

51. Circumstances not clear currently

According to Democracy Now's onsite witnesses, the 'cop' was on a motor scooter in plain clothes and charged into the crowd on his scooter, after the NYPD had attempted to pen the crowd in with metal barricades. causing the crowd to grow angry and, in its anger, to start to 'resist'.

Several other people at this particular demo were injured, some seriously, by these renegade motor scooter cops ramming into people.

The foregoing is not a justification for what happened, at least in the moral sense, but only to note the ambiguity that continues to surround the episode.

[LiberalFighter]

71. That is what I read in USAToday

I wonder why it was necessary to go undercover unless they were planted to incite peaceful protestors to become violent or force them to fight back.

[rinsd]

70. The fact that one had to go to the hospital at all....

...speaks to the "viciousness" of the crime.

[DS1]

3. I call Bullshit on this one

Sample, huh?

The name's Sample, Bill Sample, and you've been charging for every eleventh mile...

[Southsideirish]

6. Do you get much of your news from the Post?

[Tempest]

7. Will the cop who beat a handcuffed protester in the head be arrested?

The beating was witnessed by hundreds of protesters.

[Cocoa]

8. this is the best they could find?

hundreds of thousands of protestors, thousands of cops, and all they've got is this one story which itself is obviously being exaggerated by they Post.

[The_Casual_Observer]

10. Was this one of the "scooter" guys who were driving through

the crowd in order to disrupt them?

[independentpiney]

11. As much as I'm against violence

He was plainclothes and intentionally ramming his scooter into the back of a female protesters legs. He deserved the beating he got.

[jayfish]

12. Careful, The Cop Lovers Will...

be here shortly to give you the keyboard lashing of your life. Cops are special and above reproach. :eyes:

Jay

[neomonkey]

15. "PIGS" will be back in fashion soon :) n/t

[saigon68]

17. Like the troop lovers

This board will be awash with them

[RivetJoint]

16. You say you're AGAINST violence

but then say the cop DESERVED the beating...sounds like you are all for violence if you think the victim did something to deserve it.

[neomonkey]

19. All you cop lovers

You obviously have never been singled out by that bad seed cop for extra-harsh, extra-invasive treatment just because they didn't like you.

Try that on for size and come back and tell me how wonderful illegal beatings by police officers are.

[RivetJoint]

21. Illegal beatings by ANYONE are wrong

Some cops are jerks; most aren't.

Amazing the conclusions to which you leaped.

[independentpiney]

22. If violence is the only way to prevent an act of violence in progress

Then yes, I'm all for it. Whether it's a common criminal, a cop or an anarchist

[RivetJoint]

23. That's my point;

you're not against violence at all. You just think that violence can/should be used against an aggressor.

[independentpiney]

29. Whats your point?

Will you sit on your ass and watch an innocent person be beaten? What if its your son or daughter?
If so, I bow to you, you're a better Buddhist than I.

[RivetJoint]

31. What innocent person was being beaten?

[independentpiney]

35. Got me

Running a motorized vehicle intentionally into the back of a persons legs doesn't constitute a beating.

[RivetJoint]

38. Do you have a link

showing that? I figured the cop had to do something to provoke the future felon, but have not seen anything yet.

[independentpiney]

54. links

"Eyewitness reports confirmed that an undercover police officer in a scooter rammed his way into the throngs of protesters, driving as fast as 20 miles an hour, as the police were splitting the crowd, before being knocked off and beaten by an angry demonstrator. The Associated Press identified the instigator as detective William Sample. The detective was later hospitalized with head injuries that were not life threatening."
http://www.utne.com/web_special/web_specials_2004-08/articles/11371-1.html

"Two dozen police in riot gear then rushed in, followed by the officers wearing regular clothes on unmarked scooters. Vitale said only after some of the protesters were injured by the scooters was the officer attacked."
http://www.newsday.com/news/local/newyork/nyc-atta0901,0,2447865.story?coll=ny-nynews-headlines

"As the march was about to end at Eighth Avenue and 29th Street, protesters pushed back against the barricades, and then a plainclothes detective on a motor scooter rammed into the crowd. "I thought it was some kind of maniac," says Maya Martin of Jersey City."
http://www.alternet.org/election04/19729/

I just goggled this, as I had heard about this from my son, who was in the area and had many people tell him that what I posted is what happened. I saw in one of the above links that there was someone filming the incident the police are looking for. I suppose if they find it, we'll know the truth of what happened. If, and big, if, they release an unedited version.

I respect the NYPD tremendously. But there really is such a thing as 'a few bad apples'. It just doesn't apply to where the devilchimp and his minions would like us to believe it does.

[SquireJons]

56. Looks like the cops provoked the confrontation

Cops are good at that when they want to be.

[RivetJoint]

57. According to some reports

According to others, the protesters refused to obey the cops' orders.

[goddess40]

72. Undercover cops

Heard a first hand report by a journalist on WI NPR this morning. He saw several scooter riders run their vehicles into the crowd. They were in plain clothes and thus not identifiable as police officers. The crowd could not get out of their way and I am sure were trying to defend themselves. The journalist said the cop got knocked off the scooter and he didn't say he was beaten. Sounds like the cops are more than a little culpable in this.

[Radius]

82. NPR

Said nothing to that effect this afternoon or this morning.

I have yet to see a link from any media reporting the police as attacking.

[goddess40]

92. To Radius

Sorry, the report I heard was on Wisconsin Public radio this A.M. and it was like I said in my original post.

[Dhalgren]

95. Whencops are giving orders that are politically

motivated and not crime and/or safety motivated, then their orders do not supercede that of a citizen. This is an old, old tactic, used by cops from all over. I saw a cop roughing up a little woman - she must have been over sixty - for no reason other than to provoke an insident - and by the way, he did.

[Radius]

90. Newsday

The only link I see as objective, said driving into crowds, not hitting people with scooters.

Vitale has his perspective, I'm sure the perp can use this as a mitigating factor in the sentencing phase of his trial. If injuries are medically documented.

It has nothing to do with the pres..The police have a job, this guy beat a man unconcious. He is lucky the police did not shoot him.

[Radius]

41. Link

any one got link or picture of this person doing that?

Just saying you beat someone unconscious you have to justify that at the same level as slitting their throat or shooting them in the face.

[DURHAM D]

62. Sounds more like attempted murder. n/t

[Radius]

28. Level of force

In my state to beat someone unconscious you have to meet the criteria for justifiable homicide. If you hit someone while they are out there is no justification and you are commiting Assault with intent to kill or cause serious bodily harm. No longer defensive.

That means the person who did the beating has to justify the same as if he shoot him in the brain.

Probably no case for that. He is in mondo deep shit if caught. Like free trip upstate for 10 years.

[TexasSissy]

75. I noticed that, too. I condemn all violence of that sort, no

matter how the press describes it. How the press describes it is a separate issue. If someone beat someone up, not in self defense, that is wrong, in violation of the law, and I hope he/she has to answer judicially for it.

We are a nation of laws. I will NOT support anyone who thinks anarchy is the answer. Next thing you know, they'll think it's okay to attack YOU for whatever reason.
:bounce:

[Dhalgren]

96. The police

already do "attack you for whatever reason". They don't work for you, if they did, they wouldn't be trying to breakup a peaceful demonstration by the people they work for. This is going to get a lot worse, folks. We are going to see some god-awful police tactics before this is over. Kent state will look like a love-in compared to what is coming. We are going to have to decide where we stand - individually and as a group, because this will touch us all.

[Radius]

13. NPR

Said the guy was KOed and in serious condition.
Reason or not he's going to get charged with felony assault on a police officer. Big fine, possible jail time, loss of voting privs.

[saigon68]

18. Guess it will be a while

Until he gets back to kicking the shit out of civilians ?

[Radius]

24. Poor Form

Don't know the circumstances but there is not a lot that justifies beating someone unconscious. Police or civilian.

Goes beyond simple assault. Just a bad idea.

In my state to beat someone like that you have to use the same criteria as you would to shoot and kill them. Or is is Felony assault, if you kick them, ADW, if you kick them once they are out, ADW with intent to kill. Very serious stuff, even in a bar fight. Throw in a police officer and you are in some serious deep shit.

If you are beating someone civ or cop like that the police or a civ have the right to use deadly force to stop you.

[saigon68]

Whatever

Gotta love this POLICEMAN'S handiwork



</sarcasm>

[RivetJoint]

26. Yeah, that makes

ALL MPs bad. They are all a bunch of guilty bastards.

[RivetJoint]

25. Good point

What would people be saying if, during these beating, the cop had pulled out his weapon and shot his attacker?

[saigon68]

27. Well ----- I guess he would be defending himself

What if the plainclothes agitator pulled his gun and 6 citizens pulled their guns in response?

[RivetJoint]

30. They'd be gulity

of carrying a concealed weapon. :-)

[saigon68]

32. Not if they had CC permits

[RivetJoint]

33. You didn't mention that.

Fact is, they are allowed to respond with like force if they did not know the plainclothes cop was a cop.

In the case in question, there seems to be no excuse for beating a man into unconsciousness.

[Radius]

36. CC

In nyc is restricted to the point where almost no one gets one.

[Sterling]

76. What if it was just one punch?

More often than not if I get in a fight it is usually over in one punch. Does that make me a murderer too?

[RivetJoint]

83. You must have a glass jaw

if you keep getting knocked cold with one punch.

[Radius]

84. Yep

You swing on a guy in a bar and kill him you are going to be charged with manslaughter, minimum.

You swing on a cop trying to arrest you and kill him you are going to be charged with 1st degree murder, killing during the comission of a felony. Short story you are really fucked.

I've been punched plenty and punched back and never been knocked out cold or knocked someone unconcious. It takes alot of strenght or luck. I've seen an guy get hit with a corona bottle, didnt break, he stayed up and beat the shit out of the guy who hit him.

[Radius]

34. Handguns

are verboten in NYC without serious licencing. Concealment is very rare. The citizens would be guilty of ADW on a police officer, incitement to riot, laundry list of charges, if they didn't fire. If they fired they would be and hit him they would be facing life for adw with intent to kill. If he died, they would get put to sleep like fido. If they lived that long and weren't shot by countersnipers with a deer rifle or NYPD with mp5 submachine guns.

If he pulled his gun and shot in a 2 on 1 he is legal, just like you would be.

My point is that beating someone unconcious takes justification on par with shooting them.

And this has played a lot on mainstream press, and not played well for the protestors.

[jayfish]

43. That Is Simply Not True.

A plain-cloths officer who draws down on someone without identifying himself has just as much expectation of being shot as anyone else. Just ask the two cops that Tupac Shakur shot in GA.

Jay

EDITED TO CORRECT FACTUAL ERROR

[RivetJoint]

45. You are correct

If they did not KNOW he was a police officer, they have a right to defend themselves from a perceived threat (with like force).

[Radius]

49. Great example

Did he do time? Did they shoot back? don't remember.

Just saying you pull a gun on someone and shoot them you should be prepared to deal with the consequences. If you shoot a cop, you are in deep shit.

My point was not about guns, but about the fact that beating someone unconcious has the same rules of justification, in my state at least.

[jayfish]

53. The Charges Were Dropped.

Jay

[wordout]

37. Jamal Holiday; both hero and martyr

role model of new resistance :spank:

[RivetJoint]

39. Jaml Holiday; future felon

and inmate "girlfriend."

[Maddy McCall]

81. LOL!

[bobbyboucher]

86. I've heard enough of your spunk

for one thread. Check your skirt.

[AngryAmish]

40. Deleted from stupidity by the writer

You guys are right.

[RivetJoint]

42. Good god!

Fear holds us back from beating a man unconscious??? There is no excuse for that!

Decency holds us back from barbarism.

[Radius]

44. Speak for yourself.

Fear and realization of the stupidity of assaulting police are different.

Would it be cool if he plugged him in the face with a .357?

[wordout]

46. you only *think* fear holds you back

you'll know what to do when YOU are in that situation.

[Radius]

50. What situation

Being arrested, pretty simple, cooperate, get a lawyer, get off.

The guy beat a cop unconcious, he is going to be a felon and spent time in prision for being a moron. Unless he can justify the use of deadly force, which he probably can't.

[wordout]

61. wtf are you talking about?

And just how could Jamal have got himself arrested for 'witnessing" police abuse? Should he have hurled insults? Do you think it's fitting for protesters to be harrassed/provoked/arrested and run thru the system?

Lets put this in context; this IS A PROTEST AGAINST THE MOST CORRUPT AND TREACHEROUS ADMINISTRATION IN US HISTORY AND THIS COP IS FUCKING WITH THE PROTESTERS. fuck that sonofabitch! No, not "ALL" of the cops (like cowards reply in this thread) but,YES, each and every one of them that abuse their authority.

[Radius]

65. Is your reply to me?

I said a normal person reacts to being arrested by cooperating, getting a lawyer, and getting the charges dismissed. I've had many run ins with the law ranging from polite to pricks. I never saw a situation where attacking them would benefit me. If this guy had gotten arrested for disturbing the peace or some minor charge he would have paid a small fine and walked away. Now he is fucked, federally fucked.

You don't beat the cop unconcious because you get arrested, it is a stupid thing to do.

I can fuck with you in a bar, hit on your SO, you beat me unconcious and put me in the hospital you are going to be arrested for felony assault.

You try to fight fire with fire on the police you are going to go to jail and possible end up with holes in your body you weren't born with.

[independentpiney]

74. He wasn't being arrested

He was reacting to watching a person who turned out to be a rogue cop ramming protesters with a motor vehicle.Knocking him off the bike and beating his ass was appropriate imo. Stomping him on the ground after he was unconscious wasn't, and he'll have to pay the consequences.

[Sterling]

77. Yes I agree in the same context.

I would have helped him. I was not there but from what has been reported I think the cop was out of control and a danger to the safty of the public. He had to be stopped at all costs.

[Radius]

85. 2 on 1

Assault on a citizen or police officer automatically justifies use of deadly force on my state. Ie you double up on someone they can shoot you dead.

You can not interfere with the police arresting someone just because you think they are wrong. Even if it looks like they are using "excessive" force.

I have yet to see any link faulting the police, only speculation.

[independentpiney]

87. I posted links

Maybe you just don't like looking at links that don't support your preconceptions?

[Radius]

89. maybe

i didn't see them...

[Dhalgren]

97. From the links on this thread it appears as though

Jamal was trying to protect another protestor from being hurt by this cop on his scooter. He wasn't "being arrested" - this wasn't a resisting arrest kind of thing. The cop was trying to run down a female protestor and Jamal took him out. If you still don't think that this is a civil and social conflict going on in this country, you haven't been paying attention.

[Freddie Stubbs]

60. I'm sure that Kerry's campaign

will have a tribute to this here up on its website soon. ;)

[wordout]

63. oh that's right I'm making us "look bad". sorry.

All you protesters out there let the cops kick your ass - or a *SWING VOTER* might not vote for Kerry!!!

[Freddie Stubbs]

69. Is there any evidence that this cop was kicking anyone's ass?

:shrug:

[Leilani]

73. They have it on video

which has been shown all over...even here in Hawaii.

That is the way they caught him; clearly IDed him on film.

They showed his pic, & asked if anyone had info.

And it was alleged perp kicking guy in the head, while he was on the ground.

[Freddie Stubbs]

78. Does anyone have any video of this cop was kicking anyone's ass?

:shrug:

[NickB79]

52. If they have solid evidence against him, good

He deserves to spend time in prison for this assault.

The absurdity of the posts on this thread boggles my mind. Because some police have abused their power, all policemen should now be targets of opportunity to achieve revenge for the protesters beat back by some police? That seems to be the message in several posts here so far. Since when have DU'ers taken up the cause of collective punishment for the sins of a few? All that has been offered so far to defend this position are claims he was ramming a woman in the back of the legs with a scooter or such, but with no credible links to back this up. And even if this were truly the case, beating the man into unconciousness and inflicting internal injuries was not the correct response.

[Red State Rebel]

59. It was captured on video

I haven't seen all of it, but I too am stunned that people would support this.

[Name removed]

67. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[wordout]

64. Is the cop a Bush supporter?

i bet he is.

I cant believe some of the cowardly replies in this thread. Too scared to counter police abuse, eh? :scared:

[Radius]

66. Go for it.

Who gives a fuck how he votes. If I beat you unconscious and fuck you up in a barfight you started I go to prison for felonious assault. If you are smart you then sue me for damages.

Unless that guy can prove his life was in imminent danger he is in the wrong and going to federal prison.

No one has a link that even hints this guy was harassed, abused or anything other than a fuckhead.

scared, eh, why don't you go to the police station and start shooting. go fight the man for me.

[jwcomer]

68. who cares?

Morally, what difference would it make if he was a Bush supporter? Do you have two sets of ethics, one for each party?

[Maddy McCall]

80. What a stupid question.

Sorry. One of the many reasons that I am a Democrat is because I am a non-violent person. To even suggest that open season be declared on Bush-supporting cops is fucking insane.

[Maddy McCall]

79. Good that the idiot was arrested...

People who feel offer justifications for what this asshole did need to think again. Don't assume that all protesters in NYC right now are on "our side." Many of them would just as well spit on Democrats as Republicans.

I hope the policeman gets over his injuries, and I hope the asshole protester gets the book thrown at him.

[bobbyboucher]

88. What's good about it?

If the reports about the unmarked police riding scooters into the crowds to make them move are true, then I am personally pretty damn happy one of them got their asses handed to em. If it is not true about the scooters, why then did he attack the cop? Is there an alternative explanation?

[Radius]

91. Would

you give the same latitude to the police if they beat a protestor unconcious?

[Dhalgren]

98. Ok, ok, we get it. We get it.

We know that you are on the side of law and order regardless of the consequences to our freedoms and to our liberties. We have no right to defend ourselves from police abuse, we must simply surrender to their mercies and pray that our betters treat us well. We got it. The resistance can't wait for you to join...

[RazorNY22]

93. This is a link to a video of the cop on the scooter

http://www.ny1.com/ny/NewsBeats/SubTopic/index.html?topicintid=2&subtopicintid=6&contentintid=42943

Seems to me he lost control of the scooter and ran into the back of a woman. This was all some people needed to stomp him.

I don't know why they would have plainclothes cops on scooters.

Razor

[Blue_Tires]

99. i don't get it

at any time did the officer identify himself as a police officer??? forgive me if this is a dumb question, but what was he doing in plainclothes riding a scooter into a crowd??