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cal04 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-04 12:33 PM
Original message
Bush Denounces Ads by Outside Groups
Edited on Mon Aug-23-04 01:01 PM by cal04
seems like the headlines are changing by who is putting it out, so I put the latest headline

President Bush (news - web sites) denounced TV ads by outside groups attacking both John Kerry (news - web sites) and himself on Monday and called for a halt to all such political efforts. "I think they're bad for the system," he said. The president made his comments as the Kerry campaign fought back against charges made by an outside group that the Democratic senator had lied about wartime events in Vietnam for which he received five medals.

In a conference call with reporters arranged by aides to the Democratic presidential candidate, Navy swift boat officers Rich McCann, Jim Russell and Rich Baker said Kerry acted honorably and bravely and was well qualified to be the nation's commander in chief.
"He was the most aggressive officer in charge of swift boats," Baker said.
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&e=1...
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ChavezSpeakstheTruth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-04 12:35 PM
Response to Original message
1. Damage done - the sheeple are buying it
Rove is a genius
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polpilot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-04 12:42 PM
Response to Reply #1
13. Rove's runnin' a three legged horse this time. 'Genius' won't make it.
.
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Emboldened Chimp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-04 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #1
20. Rove is a ham-fisted goon, not a genius...
It doesn't take much intelligence to attack, attack, attack. Just balls (sorry, feminists).
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Virginian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-04 10:54 PM
Response to Reply #20
68. Rove learned it all from Atwater, but the title will stick with Rove.
"Rovian tactics" will be the label for dirty tricks in politics in the future because Atwaterian is just too much of a mouthfull.
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The Magistrate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-04 01:02 PM
Response to Reply #1
27. No, My Friend
The people most emphatically are not buying this Bush supporters' smear of Sen. Kerry. It has done a good deal of damage to the Republicans and will continue to do more as time goes on. Even this conditional rejection is grossly insufficient; it is a mere flip-flop, as for weeks the reptile has refused to denounce his supporters' smears. Clearly, he is just trying to get on both sides of the issue....

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"
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Kukesa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-04 02:01 PM
Response to Reply #27
49. Magistrate, you rock!! n/t
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phantom power Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-04 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #1
34. seems exactly like court-room tactic
A laywer tosses off some unfair comment meant to influence the jury. The opposing attorney raises an objection. The judge says "the jury will disregard that".

But the jury *has* heard the comment, and they *are* influenced by it. They can't "un-"hear it.
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Surf Cowboy Donating Member (500 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-04 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #34
36. There you have it...
Plenty of times an attorney will ask an objectionable question, knowing that it will be objected to and that the objection will be sustained, solely for the purpose of getting the jury to ask itself the question, and to ask why it can't be answered. Powerful stuff most of the time.
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fishnfla Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-04 01:32 PM
Response to Reply #1
43. Rove is snake bit this time
"mission accomplished"=a flop
"9/11, firefighters"= a flip
"swiftboat"=a farce
"iraqi soccer team/olympics"=a flap

his deal with the devil has worn off
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sidpleasant Donating Member (376 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-04 01:56 PM
Response to Reply #1
47. Rove's no genius
Let's not forget that the last time he ran a national campaign his candidate lost by a half - million votes.

He is completely ruthless and shameless, I'll grant that.
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Connie_Corleone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-04 12:36 PM
Response to Original message
2. Does this mean Bush Blinked?
;)
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wicket Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-04 12:37 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. Flip flop!
:D
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Nickster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-04 12:36 PM
Response to Original message
3. Sad
Isn't the horse already out of the barn on that one? Another example of the fine leadership espoused by our court appointed President.
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progressivebydesign Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-04 12:36 PM
Response to Original message
4. Hmmmm..
..perhaps McCain (Bush's favorite photo op) put his foot down, and said.. 'denounce them, or I walk'! Could happen..
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NewYorkerfromMass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-04 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #4
42. McCain should be questioned about this specifically. nt
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MidwestTransplant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-04 12:37 PM
Response to Original message
6. It's called Hit and Run
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barb162 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-04 12:47 PM
Response to Reply #6
19. Bush and his band of cutthroats
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randome Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-04 12:38 PM
Response to Original message
7. This is the result of today's "military meeting".
Because politics, to Repukes, is just another kind of war.
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Gman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-04 12:39 PM
Response to Original message
8. The data from the overnight polls and this morning focus groups is in
and it overwhelmingly says Bush should distance itself from the SBAssholes ads. That is the ONLY explanation why he would do this. There are no other reasons within the realm of logic and reason.
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onenote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-04 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. were they worried about the fec complaint?
I wonder if this is because there's more out there that would support the Kerry campaign's FEC complaint.

onenote
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trotsky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-04 12:40 PM
Response to Original message
9. From the Bush campaign's perspective, I don't know why they did this.
The Swiftboat Liars for Bush have really knocked Kerry down in the polls. The attack is working. If it were backfiring, I can see coming out to denounce them, but it's not. So what gives? :shrug:
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msmcghee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-04 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #9
16. They waited for maximum damage to Kerry . .
. . and waited until it could actually have started costing *Bush in the polls - based on focus groups this weekend.

Now *Bush can appear as reasonable and fair - a compassionate conservative who just wants to play fair - by issuing this statement that they have also focus grouped.

Fuck all of them.
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mac56 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-04 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #9
24. Actually, it hasn't hurt Kerry significantly.
From another thread: the ads have been out for about two weeks and there's no signicant change in the Rasmussen numbers.

Date Bush Kerry
Today 46 47
Aug 22 47 47
Aug 21 47 47
Aug 20 47 48
Aug 19 46 48
Aug 18 46 48
Aug 17 46 49
Aug 16 47 48
Aug 15 46 48
Aug 14 46 47
Aug 13 46 48
Aug 12 45 48
Aug 11 46 49
Aug 10 46 49
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trotsky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-04 01:07 PM
Response to Reply #24
31. Oh, I was thinking of the state polls.
As collected at http://www.electoral-vote.com .

Kerry's EC lead has shrunk significantly in the last week. :(
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Teaser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-04 01:40 PM
Response to Reply #31
44. Unlikely.
Those are simply random fluctuations. Electoral-vote.com just moved a few states to toss up status based on a round of Rasmussen polling, which is always more pro-Bush in its outlook.
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DemMother Donating Member (422 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-04 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #31
45. Not all polls are equal and that map is suspect
A couple of us have already posted about that map--

The California ARG poll has already been debunked, and a few of the states are based on Strategic Vision polls. Check out their site--they represent a couple of right wingers (Sam Brownback and Larry Klayman)and some minor candidates for school board and state assembly.

I just don't think you can adjust the map based only on posting the latest poll. The highly flawed ARG poll does not equal the reliable Field poll in California. The Strategic Vision operation may or may not be reliable--but I don't put much stock in that thing.

My brother and I were thinking about starting our own polling company this morning. If these pr hacks can do it, why not us.

A little off the subject but...it seems if basis for the the tv yakkers touting the impact of the Scumboat Liars is a survey done by Muhlenberg College (an evangelical Lutheran school) and HDC, which, until recently, did surveys for pharmaceutical companies. It was posted on Free Republic.

I'm not criticizing every poll that doesn't go our way; it's just that this constant polling by anyone who sets up shop as a pr group is getting absurd.
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Davis_X_Machina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-04 12:41 PM
Response to Original message
10. How is this not a flip-flop? n/t
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shockingelk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-04 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #10
55. There's nothing new: same position
- Kerry should somehow stop the activities of 527's working against Bush
- The Bush administration has no criticism of Kerry's service

That's what they've been saying all along.
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Virginian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-04 11:04 PM
Response to Reply #55
69. Bush wants Kerry to tell Moveon to leave him alone.
This is Bush's way of trying to get Moveon.org to leave him alone. If he can do that, then he will have Farenheight 9/11 outlawed from theatres as a 527 ad.

It's like he's saying, "I'm gonna prop up a group as a 527 to tell lies about you so I don't have to say them myself and so it doesn't come out of my budget. In return I expect you to get the 527s that are telling the truth about me to just shut up."
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Dickie Flatt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-04 12:42 PM
Response to Original message
12. Update is gone, other posters and dKos commenters say NOT TRUE
Apparently he just repeated the anti-527s stuff.
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annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-04 12:42 PM
Response to Original message
14. It's off the front page now...
was that an "oops"?
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otohara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-04 12:42 PM
Response to Original message
15. MSNBC Link - Same Old Shit - All 527's
Edited on Mon Aug-23-04 12:43 PM by otohara
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annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-04 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. That still sounds like "ALL 527's" to me.
Is there a more complete version?
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Sparkle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-04 12:46 PM
Response to Original message
17. Better late than never, I guess.
What a butthole. Kerry threatened to sue his sorry azz and now he decides to talk about the Swiftboat idiots for Bush?
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barb162 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-04 12:50 PM
Response to Original message
21. Bush and the band of cutthroats
should have done this days back.
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Feanorcurufinwe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-04 12:50 PM
Response to Original message
22. Headline is innacurate.
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David Zephyr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-04 12:53 PM
Response to Original message
23. I Wrote This Would Happen. Smear and Retreat.
The retreat happens ONLY after the "ad campaign" ahd begun to backfire and turn off the American people and after the lies of Bush's bitter vets were being exposed.
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Dawgs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-04 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #23
26. Already hearing the new line..
Edited on Mon Aug-23-04 01:02 PM by Dawgs
"Well, the only thing that really matters is what Kerry said after coming back from Vietnam."

I started hearing it today on the right-wing talk shows.

This way they diminish the lies about Kerry's record in Vietman. They punch, dodge, and run... then they make the public look in another direction. Unfortunately it seems to be working.

How do these bastards get away with this? And how do they all get the same sound bite at the same time. It's disgusting.
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David Zephyr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-04 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #26
33. Yep. Wolf Blitzer: The Dirtiest Hands on Television.
Edited on Mon Aug-23-04 01:17 PM by David Zephyr
They get away with it, Dawgs, because the corporate media is complicit in the act.

I personally find that it was CNN's Wolf Blitzer who worked this story the hardest on behalf of the Bush White House. No one at Fox even came close to Blitzer in helping to smear Kerry.

Wolf Blitzer, the Dirtiest Hands in Television. Hands down.
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0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-04 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #33
46. I trust you e-mailed the bastard?
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LTR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-04 01:00 PM
Response to Original message
25. Poppy did the same thing in response to the Willie Horton ads
Edited on Mon Aug-23-04 01:00 PM by RatTerrier
Let 'em sit out there for a few weeks, then condemned them.

By that point, damage done.

Typical. I saw this one coming.
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Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-04 01:03 PM
Response to Original message
28. 527s could end tomorrow and the RW sliming will continue...
The Swift Boat Veterans for Bush is NOT a story about 527 groups.

Their "media buys" had NOTHING to do with how they made it into the media. Using Drudge, Talk Radio and the Cable News, the book alone would have been sufficient to get them into the mainstream.

The big story this election is how fringe groups spouting demonstrable lies can command hundreds of hours of free press using RW Radio and Cable News. The left has no such counter channel and MUST raise big bucks to BUY media time.



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Inland Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-04 01:03 PM
Response to Original message
29. The problem with the ad isn't the source of funding, but that it is a lie
Bush must condemn this ad as unfair, not a funding source. This ad would have been dirtbag no matter how it came about, and a president of any worth would not allow a vet to be smeared for political points.
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cal04 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-04 01:05 PM
Response to Original message
30. From CBS Marketwatch
Edited on Mon Aug-23-04 01:15 PM by cal04
and reuters.

President Bush on Monday denounced television ads ran by various outside political groups attacking both himself and Democratic challenger John Kerry and called for an end to such efforts. Bush, briefing reporters in Crawford, Texas, said such ads and the groups that fund them are "bad for the system." Bush responded to questions from reporters regarding an ad ran by a group calling itself "Swift Boat Veterans for Truth," questioning Kerry's war record. "I think Sen. Kerry served admirably and he ought to be proud of his record," Bush said. The president said he was disappointed in a loophole to the campaign finance law that has allowed groups from both the right and left to spend millions of dollars on partisan ads and repeated a call for Kerry to join him in calling for a halt to such efforts.

President Bush said on Monday advertisements by independent groups attacking Democrat John Kerry's service in Vietnam should be stopped along with all other ads run by independent groups. The president said he wants to stop "all of them. That means that ad and every other ad." He was referring to a commercial by Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, who have claimed Kerry lied about his record.

Unlike previous statements by the White House, Bush this time referred specifically to the ad attacking Kerry's Vietnam service record.

He did not specify what action might be taken to stop the advertisements run by independent groups.
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earthside Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-04 01:07 PM
Response to Original message
32. Not good enough ...
From what little I heard, what Bush said is not good enough.

Kerry must ram this sleaze down Bush's throat.

The phrases "George W. Bush" and "dirty campaigner" need to become synonyms.

See my latest editorial for more: www.Earthside.com
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Cocoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-04 01:14 PM
Response to Original message
35. headline should be "Bush continues to refuse to specifically denounce ad"
the AP's headline, and the entire story, gives the false impression that Bush is denouncing the ad, and that he is saying something new today.

Instead, he is just repeating the same position his campaign had before.

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qwertyMike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-04 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #35
37. He did
Edited on Mon Aug-23-04 01:23 PM by qwertyMike
He condemned "THAT AD and all other 527's"
He condemned the ad.

Time to get back to the issues as the new Kerry ad says.
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Cocoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-04 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #37
41. specifically
if you don't know the difference between denouncing the ad specifically, and denouncing a CLASS of ads, then you need to think about it a little more. It's important.

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moran4change Donating Member (12 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-04 01:23 PM
Response to Original message
38. Where are the mediawhores?
We shouldn't have to wait for bush to denounce anything. If the media made a half-assed attempt at their jobs, smearboat would've been discredited months ago.
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Ron Green Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-04 01:24 PM
Response to Original message
39. As long as people are not very smart (which they aren't)....
only shouting black-white platitudes will get through to them. John Kerry must start shouting some black-white platitudes if he's going to make a dent in the collective (un)consciousness.

:dunce:
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BrooklynRider Donating Member (51 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-04 01:25 PM
Response to Original message
40. The latest Dole comments were WAY out of line - that's why
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Catfight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-04 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #40
62. Dole should personally apologize for jumping on the smear wagon!
Dirty trix Repugs, nothings changed since Nixon.
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Virginian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-04 11:25 PM
Response to Reply #62
71. Dole won't. He's gotten Mean again.
He was mean in his campaign }( , he's mean now }( . Only appears to be nice sometimes O8), isn't really :evilfrown: . Funny sometimes :P , still mean. }( }(
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bullimiami Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-04 01:59 PM
Response to Original message
48. OH COME ON ALREADY
these are the new rules they thought were going to give them the big advantage. they agreed on them and now that it seems like they arent damaging the dems the way they hoped the whining starts.

shut up bush. you and your filthy cheating minions. just shut the fu*& up already.

the swift boat ad is wrong because it is A LIE. get it?
but for bushco just another scam to try to gain advantage.
they have no shame, no sense of honor hardly any humanity left at all.
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arwalden Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-04 02:02 PM
Response to Original message
50. But Not The CONTENT Of The Swiftboat Anti Kerry Ads, Eh?
Wimp!
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Keirsey Donating Member (508 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-04 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #50
52. AlterNet!!
AlterNet's headline "Let Them Do the Dirty Work" is a top link at http://news.google.com/
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RazzleCat Donating Member (336 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-04 02:03 PM
Response to Original message
51. Now that the Kerry side if fighting back
Golly gee says Bush, no one should have them. Duh now that it appears that they will start running 527 type ads targeted at YOU, you don't like them.
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rocktivity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-04 02:09 PM
Response to Original message
53. Pop goes the weasel!
With polls suggesting Kerry's standing was beginning to slip at least among veterans

Either's he's slipping or he isn't. Either he's beginning to slip or he isn't. And if it is only "working" on veterans, then the Smear-Boat Liars For Bush have failed indeed.

:headbang:
rocknation
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leesa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-04 02:16 PM
Response to Original message
54. The only point of this denunciation is the phrase "outside groups"
Bush is trying to do damage control by trying to make it appear that these guys weren't part of the RNC effort. It was very much an "inside group"
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-04 02:39 PM
Response to Reply #54
56. So *dauphin calls on Kerry to disavow
the "outside groups" while making neocon use of the big guns "inside group," *corporate media...
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nolabels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-04 02:53 PM
Response to Reply #56
57. Besides corporate media hates it when so many are taking pot shots
They can't denounce them all, it hurts their advertising base :cry:
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louis-t Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-04 04:16 PM
Response to Original message
58. Then MoveOn.org's next ad should be:
"In 2000, GWB claimed John McCain, a veteran who spent 7 years in a prison camp, lied about his service record.
In 2002, the Republicans called Max Cleland, a veteran who lost 3 limbs in Vietnam, "unpatriotic". The Bush response? (crickets chirping or * with a dumb look on his face)
Now GWB is refusing to condemn those who are lying about JK's war record. Is this what GWB thinks of veterans?"
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-04 04:29 PM
Response to Reply #58
60. Love it!
... especially if each time there is a return to the same scene of a dull-eyed Bush w/chirping crickets.

Let Kerry take the high road, but it's time for the rest of us to get REAL nasty. That's all the BushBots know because they have been trained that way for over a decade. You'll be surprised at how many right wingers get that "deer in the headlights" look when they are challenged. They are used to bullying in the echo chamber, not real confrontations.
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MGKrebs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-04 04:25 PM
Response to Original message
59. cnn headline: "Bush urges Kerry to condemn attack ads"
So predictable. So pathetic. So desperate. Perhaps we don't deserve democracy.
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-04 04:30 PM
Response to Reply #59
61. Is this for real? Did CNN just say that?
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MGKrebs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-04 05:10 PM
Response to Reply #61
65. It's the top story in cnn.com
It's still there.

http://www.cnn.com/
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-04 05:18 PM
Response to Reply #65
66. Orwellian
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Virginian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-04 11:16 PM
Response to Reply #66
70. Rovian.
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bonemachine Donating Member (407 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-04 04:59 PM
Response to Original message
63. Where's Ken Cordier?
I've noticed that in all the articles about Bush and the SBVFB ad, there's been no mention of Ken Cordier, the campaign advisor who appears in the ad.

We need to find ways to get this information out!
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JoFerret Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-04 04:59 PM
Response to Original message
64. He blinked but this mealy mouthed
bunch of weasel words is no denunciation or condemnation. He is feeling the heat and is trying to evade responsibility with this weaseling drivel. Keep up the pressure - back the liars down.
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demgrrrll Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-04 05:40 PM
Response to Reply #64
67. This makes me dislike Bush even more than I did this morning and
that IS a feat. I just can't stand these people I want them out out out.
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